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pride noun
: a feeling that you respect yourself and deserve to be respected by other people
: a feeling that you are more important or better than other people
: a feeling of happiness that you get when you or someone you know does something good, difficult, etc.
Synonyms: ego, self-esteem, self-regard, self-respect
Reminder: selfishness - the act of having or showing concern only for yourself and not for the needs or feelings of other people
One can respect oneself and deserve to be respected by other people, without being selfish with regard to said pride.
One can have feeling that you are more important or better than other people without being selfish.
One can have a feeling of happiness that one gets when one or someone one knows does something good, difficult, etc, without being selfish about it.
Selfish is an adjective, like big, or fair, that one can add to anything. It is a relative term that can mean little to nothing and add little to nothing to any phrase. Thus, selfish is is confused by many as meaning just about anything their feeble minds (dig ;-) try to make it mean. Typically this happens when your brain is trying to fill in easier reasons for things than more complex reasons.
Pridefulness is different from simple pride, right? Post that definition.
That is why the bible talks about it as much as almost anything else, right? It is the snare that traps almost everyone. Makes people make digs and that sort of thing.
Pridefulness
1:a reasonable or justifiable sense of one's worth or importance <beaming with understandable pridefulness, the physically challenged graduate accepted his college diploma>
Synonyms ego, pridefulness, self-esteem, self-regard, self-respect
Related Words aplomb, assurance, confidence, self-assurance, self-assuredness, self-confidence, self-pride, self-trust, self-worth; dignity, face, honor, prestige
2:an often unjustified feeling of being pleased with oneself or with one's situation or achievements <an inordinate amount of pridefulness for someone who has much to be modest about>
Synonyms amour propre, bighead, complacency, conceit, conceitedness, ego, egotism, pomposity, pompousness, pride, pridefulness, self-admiration, self-assumption, self-conceit, self-congratulation, self-esteem, self-glory, self-importance, self-love, self-opinion, self-satisfaction, smugness, swelled head, swellheadedness, vaingloriousness, vainglory, vainness, vanity
Related Words assurance, confidence, self-assurance, self-confidence; self-righteousness; arrogance, disdainfulness, haughtiness, imperiousness, lordliness, self-assertion, snobbishness, superciliousness, superiority; hubris, overconfidence, presumption; pretense (or pretence), pretension, pretentiousness; egoism, self-centeredness, selfishness; self-pride, self-respect
As stated, one can exhibit pridefulness, without being selfish about it. It is arguably self-centered but again one can be self-centered without being selfish.
For example, I may donate all of my money out of pridefulness and even self-rightiousness. Arguing that giving everything away is selfish because you plan to brag about not being selfish.. heh that's funny.
pride noun
: a feeling that you respect yourself and deserve to be respected by other people
: a feeling that you are more important or better than other people
: a feeling of happiness that you get when you or someone you know does something good, difficult, etc.
Synonyms: ego, self-esteem, self-regard, self-respect
Reminder: selfishness - the act of having or showing concern only for yourself and not for the needs or feelings of other people
One can respect oneself and deserve to be respected by other people, without being selfish with regard to said pride.
One can have feeling that you are more important or better than other people without being selfish.
One can have a feeling of happiness that one gets when one or someone one knows does something good, difficult, etc, without being selfish about it.
Selfish is an adjective, like big, or fair, that one can add to anything. It is a relative term that can mean little to nothing and add little to nothing to any phrase. Thus, selfish is is confused by many as meaning just about anything their feeble minds (dig ;-) try to make it mean. Typically this happens when your brain is trying to fill in easier reasons for things than more complex reasons.
Pridefulness is different from simple pride, right? Post that definition.
That is why the bible talks about it as much as almost anything else, right? It is the snare that traps almost everyone. Makes people make digs and that sort of thing.
Pridefulness
1:a reasonable or justifiable sense of one's worth or importance <beaming with understandable pridefulness, the physically challenged graduate accepted his college diploma>
Synonyms ego, pridefulness, self-esteem, self-regard, self-respect
Related Words aplomb, assurance, confidence, self-assurance, self-assuredness, self-confidence, self-pride, self-trust, self-worth; dignity, face, honor, prestige
2:an often unjustified feeling of being pleased with oneself or with one's situation or achievements <an inordinate amount of pridefulness for someone who has much to be modest about>
Synonyms amour propre, bighead, complacency, conceit, conceitedness, ego, egotism, pomposity, pompousness, pride, pridefulness, self-admiration, self-assumption, self-conceit, self-congratulation, self-esteem, self-glory, self-importance, self-love, self-opinion, self-satisfaction, smugness, swelled head, swellheadedness, vaingloriousness, vainglory, vainness, vanity
Related Words assurance, confidence, self-assurance, self-confidence; self-righteousness; arrogance, disdainfulness, haughtiness, imperiousness, lordliness, self-assertion, snobbishness, superciliousness, superiority; hubris, overconfidence, presumption; pretense (or pretence), pretension, pretentiousness; egoism, self-centeredness, selfishness; self-pride, self-respect
As stated, one can exhibit pridefulness, without being selfish about it. It is arguably self-centered but again one can be self-centered without being selfish.
For example, I may donate all of my money out of pridefulness and even self-rightiousness. Arguing that giving everything away is selfish because you plan to brag about not being selfish.. heh that's funny.
I do agree that selfishness can be looked at as one of the key ingredients in nearly every crime one human commits against another. Also key is the use of oxygen. I've never heard of anyone who doesn't breathe oxygen committing a crime against anyone else. Water drinking, as well. Nobody, and I mean nobody, who doesn't drink water, ever does anything fucked up to anybody on this planet.
Essentially, what I'm getting at is that selfishness is a given. Whether you believe in a universal one'ness, as in your case, or aren't sure what to believe, as in my case, you must acknowledge that the fact of the matter, as according to the physical reality we can observe via basic sensory input, is that man is not a hive-minded creature. That is, we don't seem to act via a communal consciousness, but rather each human seems to have its own individual ideas and experiences. We all look at the world through our own window and no other.
Given that this is undeniably the natural state of man, selfishness is a conundrum that can no more be escaped than the need to breathe. Every single decision that any human being makes is an act of selfishness. Every single decision satisfies a value constructed by the decider's individual consciousness. Even "unselfish" acts.
But when you have 3 pieces of bread and you share it with your neighbor for no reason other than you feel compassion for him, isn’t that just a small step in the direction of wholeness? In other words, you’re treating him like you’d treat yourself. You and him are the same. He feels good, you feel good. Right?Every time you've ever given anyone anything, you were still acting selfishly. You gave what you gave because you -wanted- to give it. Whatever it was that you gave, you valued the results of giving it to its recipient more than you valued what it cost you to do so. Every single action you initiate is geared toward manipulating your environment to more fully represent your individual values at any given moment. Period. This is inescapable.
Now, let's logic our way along, here. . . If selfishness is an inescapable reality, -and- you say that selfishness is the root of all evil, then essentially what you're saying is that the root of all evil is the very nature of reality. This is simply not a useful observation. I'm moved to say something along the lines of, "And if frogs had wings. . . "
Even if one is to buy into your religious view of one'ness, the elimination of selfish'ness is still the -holy shit- long route to solving anything. If Jesus is an example of someone who achieved enlightened selflessness, and so is the Buddha. . . How many Buddha's and Christs have come along in the entire history of man? Half a dozen? A dozen? A hundred? There's over 6 billion people alive -right now-.
The love of money is just as useless of a response. Money is simply a tool to simplify trading so that, if you grow apples for instance, you don't have to find someone who grows greens AND needs apples in particular in order to get your greens, or someone who has access to drinking water AND needs apples in order to quench your thirst. Money is simply a universal conversion rate for the fruit of your labor.
Thus, if you say that the love of money is the root of all evil, you're saying that it's evil to love the fruit of your labor. Anyone who doesn't love the fruit of their labor is either in the wrong line of work or has no pride.
Personally, I accept that I am selfish. I help the people I care to help when I care to help them which, thankfully for the people in my life, is pretty often. Also, I -love- money. First off, I love the concept of it: I love that societies past were wise enough to come up with a system that allowed for people to provide highly specialized services that don't directly produce any physical product and -still- live well via that labor. I love that societies past came up with an economic system that saved us all insane amounts of time in terms of how much of it we have to spend simply fulfilling our own physical upkeep (cuz if we all had to farm and trade our wares at a bazaar, holy shit there goes all our free time).
I also love wealth. I love having it. I'd love to have more of it, and it has nothing to do with wanting to take it from others, or wanting them to have less of it. I simply love to be able to acquire what I want when I want it (the fun thing about that property is, again, it's something we all share. Everybody wants to be able to acquire or achieve what they want, when they want it, period. The only difference is in -what- is wanted). Also, the love of wealth is often spurred by what your philosophy would consider some level of selflessness. One of the things I love about having wealth is that, if someone I care about is in need, I have the means of helping them. Believing that we're all one and deferring the wealth to the world as a whole isn't going to cause the world to pay my mother's rent if she's short one month. If I got that money on hand, tho? Mom's got a roof over her head. In short, being the individual in control of the wealth allows one to channel that wealth toward the purposes that they consider worthy as opposed to standing idly by and letting the chips fall where they may. If you seek to better the world via any means that is realistically plausible, love of wealth is almost inevitable.
Personally, I say that the primary roots of evil (at least those ones that can reasonably be combatted) are dishonesty and the desire to subjugate one another. Even if your religion is true, history is populated by a lot more honest, live-and-let-live types than it is by people who've achieved the level of selflessness of Jesus or the Buddha. This leads me to believe that, even if true selflessness is possible, achieving a mindset of honesty and losing the desire to force everyone else to obey your values are sure as fuck a shorter route than messianic detachment.
But if people are acquiring wealth for no reason other than bettering the “whole”, that’s not selfish.Think about it, though. . . if the lovers of wealth only acquired said wealth via honest trade and didn't use it to subjugate the initiative of others, selfishness wouldn't be a problem.
Mind you, I'm not saying my fixes are particularly realistic, simply a higher-probability option. Dishonesty and subjugation are things society can realistically combat. Acts of dishonesty (theft, fraud, etc) can be punished and deterred, as can acts that subjugate the initiative of others (theft, murder, kidnapping, assault, etc) via the most basic of societal laws and standards. The life-view of every individual, on the other hand, isn't something that can be controlled at all. When humans decided to travel overseas, it was more realistic to build a vessel to deal with the realities of maritime travel than to wish for the continents to be closer together.
Lastly, minor point. You seem to misunderstand the basic premise of Libertarianism, which is individualism. Not only would Libertarianism not conflict with the existence of selfish individuals, it's actually a system that embraces and facilitates the selfishness of the individual. The whole idea of Libertarianism is that government should exert limited control over the people so that each individual has the liberty to pursue the values of their -own- conscience. Libertarianism -is- selfishness in action.
Clearly you have not seen what happens when you crowd people together.
1 Lust does not come from selfishness.
2 Gluttony does not come from selfishness.
3 Greed does not come from selfishness.
4 Sloth does not come from selfishness.
5 Wrath does not come from selfishness.
6 Envy does not come from selfishness.
7 Pride does not come from selfishness.
Selfishness is like fairness, it's one of those words that be used in meaningless ways.
Actually, in the OP's defense, all of these things come from selfishness.
Lust is born of the desire to physically satiate oneself.
Gluttony is: See Lust
Greed? Really? Greed and selfishness are separate? Holy shit, I'm not even responding to that particular claim.
Sloth is the desire to eschew all responsibility and simply laze about because its easier and/or more immediately comfortable than doing otherwise. Acting foolishly (or not acting at all) in order to fulfill an immediate desire is pretty much the textbook definition of the sort of selfishness that is universally considered detrimental.
Wrath is born either of the desire to emotionally gratify oneself or to satisfy a personal value, by avenging a perceived wrong.
Envy? I should skip this one, too. Envy is born of seeing something someone else has and wanting it for oneself.
Pride? SERIOUSLY!? Holy shit, by definition, pride is self-love. SELF-LOVE ISN'T SELFISH?! asledkfja;ldkfdsakljfasd I don't even know what to say to that.
You have the same problem as the OP. You think that because there may be associations between words that they somehow can magically be the same thing.
Try to write a sentence using only the term selfishness. Why do you think we have more than one or two words?
Put it a different way. Can you not explain the difference between selfishness and lust?
Selfishness is no more the root of lust than boobs are. By your argument I could say boob addiction is the root of all evil.
As stated, one can exhibit pridefulness, without being selfish about it. It is arguably self-centered but again one can be self-centered without being selfish.
For example, I may donate all of my money out of pridefulness and even self-rightiousness. Arguing that giving everything away is selfish because you plan to brag about not being selfish.. heh that's funny.
You have the same problem as the OP. You think that because there may be associations between words that they somehow can magically be the same thing.
Try to write a sentence using only the term selfishness. Why do you think we have more than one or two words?
Put it a different way. Can you not explain the difference between selfishness and lust?
Selfishness is no more the root of lust than boobs are. By your argument I could say boob addiction is the root of all evil.
While your lust may be your personal desire for gratification, that is not the full definition of lust and may not be the reason or come even close to describing other peoples' lust.
Anything can be easily connected if you try hard enough. The OP declared that one requires the other, more particularly that one is the root of the other. The OP did not state that these evils may share some root in common with selfishness that can be easily connected, as you are stating.
HUH? your definition of self interest means the exact same thing as my quoted definition and neither are the root of lust. Why do some people think "having" means only having, as in to the exclusion of all other.lust intransitive verb
: to have a strong sexual desire for someone
: to have a strong desire for something
Synonyms: ardor, concupiscence, eros, eroticism, horniness, itch, lustfulness, passion
Note: selfishness is not even mentioned as a synonym of lust.
self·ish adjective
: having or showing concern only for yourself and not for the needs or feelings of other people
Note: one can lust and still show concern, one can be lustful without being selfish about it.
More particularly lust does not have to have anything to do with selfishness.
Should I continue?
— adj
1. chiefly concerned with one's own interest, advantage, etc, esp to the total exclusion of the interests of others
2. relating to or characterized by self-interest
See what I did there, vs what you did there?
You found a definition of selfishness that necessitates a disregard for others. I found two that do not.
Point is, selfishness does -not- have to include a disregard for others to qualify as selfishness.
Therefore, lust, born of the instinctive desire to satiate oneself physically, is -always- selfish.
I use websters, because I don't like wasting time with poorly written definitions. And your definition of self interest means pretty much the exact same thing as my quoted definition and neither are the root of lust.
What part of "synonym" is confusing you? What part of my example showing how the two words don't mean the same thing thus selfish can't be the root confused you?Pridefulness is different from simple pride, right? Post that definition.
That is why the bible talks about it as much as almost anything else, right? It is the snare that traps almost everyone. Makes people make digs and that sort of thing.
Pridefulness
1:a reasonable or justifiable sense of one's worth or importance <beaming with understandable pridefulness, the physically challenged graduate accepted his college diploma>
Synonyms ego, pridefulness, self-esteem, self-regard, self-respect
Related Words aplomb, assurance, confidence, self-assurance, self-assuredness, self-confidence, self-pride, self-trust, self-worth; dignity, face, honor, prestige
2:an often unjustified feeling of being pleased with oneself or with one's situation or achievements <an inordinate amount of pridefulness for someone who has much to be modest about>
Synonyms amour propre, bighead, complacency, conceit, conceitedness, ego, egotism, pomposity, pompousness, pride, pridefulness, self-admiration, self-assumption, self-conceit, self-congratulation, self-esteem, self-glory, self-importance, self-love, self-opinion, self-satisfaction, smugness, swelled head, swellheadedness, vaingloriousness, vainglory, vainness, vanity
Related Words assurance, confidence, self-assurance, self-confidence; self-righteousness; arrogance, disdainfulness, haughtiness, imperiousness, lordliness, self-assertion, snobbishness, superciliousness, superiority; hubris, overconfidence, presumption; pretense (or pretence), pretension, pretentiousness; egoism, self-centeredness, selfishness; self-pride, self-respect
As stated, one can exhibit pridefulness, without being selfish about it. It is arguably self-centered but again one can be self-centered without being selfish.
For example, I may donate all of my money out of pridefulness and even self-rightiousness. Arguing that giving everything away is selfish because you plan to brag about not being selfish.. heh that's funny.
One can be self-centered without being selfish?
Synonyms for self-centered
adj absorbed with oneself
egocentric
egotistical
self-absorbed
self-indulgent
selfish
egoistic
egomaniacal
egotistic
grandstanding
having a swelled head
independent
inward-looking
know-it-all
narcissistic
on an ego trip
self-interested
self-involved
self-seeking
self-serving
self-sufficient
stuck on oneself
wrapped up with oneself
Note the inclusion of "selfish" amongst synonyms for "self-centered".
Now, I hate to sit here and say that Roget's 21st Century Thesaurus is a higher authority on the English language than you are, but. . .
Roget's 21st Century Thesaurus is a higher authority on the English language than you are.
While your lust may be your personal desire for gratification, that is not the full definition of lust and may not be the reason or come even close to describing other peoples' lust.
But the ROOT, RKM! The root. A person who is completely and utterly unselfish has no need to lust. It serves no other purpose than to fulfill ones own personal desire.
Again, if I am completely and absolutely unselfish in every way, what would be the purpose for lusting?
Anything can be easily connected if you try hard enough. The OP declared that one requires the other, more particularly that one is the root of the other. The OP did not state that these evils may share some root in common with selfishness that can be easily connected, as you are stating.
I think all of those sins you list are rooted in selfishness.
If someone is completely unselfish and dedicates his/her life entirely to helping others and the betterment of mankind he would never be gluttonous, he would never be greedy, he would never lust, he would never be wrathful, etc, etc.
Selfishness IS the root, as I assert in my OP.
Bullshit. Turds are the root. If one has turds one needs nothing else. One does not need lust if one loves his turds. Why would you be wrathful if all you care about is turds?
I use websters, because I don't like wasting time with poorly written definitions. And your definition of self interest means pretty much the exact same thing as my quoted definition and neither are the root of lust.
You need to first answer this question..
If you're a person who is completely and truly unselfish, and have the mission of solely acting - every waking moment - to better the whole, what purpose exactly would you have for "lusting" over something? Can you be absolutely completely unselfish AND lustful at the same time? Personally, I think absolutely not.
An unselfish person acts not to fulfill one's own desires but rather to better the whole. There is no need for "lusting". There is no need for personal "pleasure". Those things are unnecessary, and a waste of time.
.
Bullshit. Turds are the root. If one has turds one needs nothing else. One does not need lust if one loves his turds. Why would you be wrathful if all you care about is turds?
Now, come on RKM. That's not a very helpful or meaningful response.
My point is the way you are using selfish could be just as easily replaced by any term. What part of "synonym" is confusing you? What part of my example showing how the two words don't mean the same thing thus selfish can't be the root confused you?Pridefulness
1:a reasonable or justifiable sense of one's worth or importance <beaming with understandable pridefulness, the physically challenged graduate accepted his college diploma>
Synonyms ego, pridefulness, self-esteem, self-regard, self-respect
Related Words aplomb, assurance, confidence, self-assurance, self-assuredness, self-confidence, self-pride, self-trust, self-worth; dignity, face, honor, prestige
2:an often unjustified feeling of being pleased with oneself or with one's situation or achievements <an inordinate amount of pridefulness for someone who has much to be modest about>
Synonyms amour propre, bighead, complacency, conceit, conceitedness, ego, egotism, pomposity, pompousness, pride, pridefulness, self-admiration, self-assumption, self-conceit, self-congratulation, self-esteem, self-glory, self-importance, self-love, self-opinion, self-satisfaction, smugness, swelled head, swellheadedness, vaingloriousness, vainglory, vainness, vanity
Related Words assurance, confidence, self-assurance, self-confidence; self-righteousness; arrogance, disdainfulness, haughtiness, imperiousness, lordliness, self-assertion, snobbishness, superciliousness, superiority; hubris, overconfidence, presumption; pretense (or pretence), pretension, pretentiousness; egoism, self-centeredness, selfishness; self-pride, self-respect
As stated, one can exhibit pridefulness, without being selfish about it. It is arguably self-centered but again one can be self-centered without being selfish.
For example, I may donate all of my money out of pridefulness and even self-rightiousness. Arguing that giving everything away is selfish because you plan to brag about not being selfish.. heh that's funny.
One can be self-centered without being selfish?
Synonyms for self-centered
adj absorbed with oneself
egocentric
egotistical
self-absorbed
self-indulgent
selfish
egoistic
egomaniacal
egotistic
grandstanding
having a swelled head
independent
inward-looking
know-it-all
narcissistic
on an ego trip
self-interested
self-involved
self-seeking
self-serving
self-sufficient
stuck on oneself
wrapped up with oneself
Note the inclusion of "selfish" amongst synonyms for "self-centered".
Now, I hate to sit here and say that Roget's 21st Century Thesaurus is a higher authority on the English language than you are, but. . .
Roget's 21st Century Thesaurus is a higher authority on the English language than you are.
You have the same problem as the OP. You think that because there may be associations between words that they somehow can magically be the same thing.
Try to write a sentence using only the term selfishness. Why do you think we have more than one or two words?
Put it a different way. Can you not explain the difference between selfishness and lust?
Selfishness is no more the root of lust than boobs are. By your argument I could say boob addiction is the root of all evil.
Why do we lust RKM? Lust is an uncontrolled craving for making oneself "feel good". How is that not a selfish activity?
Again, it's actually interesting you brought up the 7 deadly sins because every single one is clearly traceable to selfish roots.
Bullshit. Turds are the root. If one has turds one needs nothing else. One does not need lust if one loves his turds. Why would you be wrathful if all you care about is turds?
Now, come on RKM. That's not a very helpful or meaningful response.
Widgets are the root. If one has his widgets one needs nothing else. One does not need lush if one loves his widgets. Why would you be wrathful if all you care about is widgets?
IOW you drew up a long winded strawman argument.
What part of "synonym" is confusing you? What part of my example showing how the two words don't mean the same thing thus selfish can't be the root confused you?One can be self-centered without being selfish?
Synonyms for self-centered
adj absorbed with oneself
egocentric
egotistical
self-absorbed
self-indulgent
selfish
egoistic
egomaniacal
egotistic
grandstanding
having a swelled head
independent
inward-looking
know-it-all
narcissistic
on an ego trip
self-interested
self-involved
self-seeking
self-serving
self-sufficient
stuck on oneself
wrapped up with oneself
Note the inclusion of "selfish" amongst synonyms for "self-centered".
Now, I hate to sit here and say that Roget's 21st Century Thesaurus is a higher authority on the English language than you are, but. . .
Roget's 21st Century Thesaurus is a higher authority on the English language than you are.
They don't have to be synonyms for one to be the root of the other. That's simply silly.
If anger is the root of a murder, does that make anger a synonym of murder?
Of course not.
