The Truth about Mormons

[Listening]

Well, obviously you can't. I seem to really be getting your magic underpanties in a wad, don't I?

Don't kid yourself.

I've dealth with much much much better than you.

You are a fraud.

Then why am I the one sitting here having laughs at your expense? You are the one getting massively upset because someone is mocking your batshit crazy beliefs, guy.

The difference between Joseph Smith and David Koresh?

Original and Extra Crispy!

Oh ouch !!!

Yes, that really upsets me. I am so hurt.

Massively upset ? ROTF

Get a life.

You are a fraud (and the board moron too).

Well...it's off to sacrafice some virgins.....toodles.

 

[JoeB131]

Well...it's off to sacrafice some virgins.....toodles.

You mean you found some Mormon girl who could outrun her brothers?

 

[Christopher]

Then why am I the one sitting here having laughs at your expense? You are the one getting massively upset because someone is mocking your batshit crazy beliefs, guy.

You have consistently shown that you are just a troll and this post is the perfect example of that.

Here's a level 10 troll card. You've earned it.

 

[Listening]

Hmm I wonder how many Bishops believe that. Also Relief Society is quite different depending on the Ward as well.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Are you asking how many bishops believe in preaching official church doctrine? If someone is found preaching false church doctrine, they are taken to church court and disciplined and if necessary, excommunicated.

The key point here is that the doctrine is used to formulate policy and local leaders have a lot of discression in establishing that policy. They don't get a lot of flack from Salt Lake unless it is a very serious issue.

This is very contrary to the key-in-the-back claim that so many make about the church.

Our lesson manuals are very broad and a teacher has all kinds of flexibility in what parts he choses to focus on (as guided by the Spirit...as needed by that particular group).

And on and on.......

Once again...we focus on process as much as we do on content. It is your life, it is your responsiblity to live it.

 

[Listening]

Yes you are right, and those people with wild interpretations tend to be the ones who don't go to church too often or don't read the book or other scriptures that often. Fortunately there is only one valid interpretation of scriptures. The Prophet's. He tells us the correct one so there doesn't have to be confusion.

I would recommend reading Dallin H. Oaks talk on Scripture Reading and Revelation. In this talk he provides very good insight on the scriptures as an Open Cannon. The guidance we need is found in the scriptures through the direction of the Holy Ghost. If you read Nelson's description of his groundbreaking operaiton, you see just what Oaks is talking about. The is no description of surgery in the scriptures. But there is a description of people following a process of prayer and fasting and getting answers. And that is just what Elder Nelson did.

And he got a very important and relevant answer.

 

[daws101]

Yes you are right, and those people with wild interpretations tend to be the ones who don't go to church too often or don't read the book or other scriptures that often. Fortunately there is only one valid interpretation of scriptures. The Prophet's. He tells us the correct one so there doesn't have to be confusion.

I would recommend reading Dallin H. Oaks talk on Scripture Reading and Revelation. In this talk he provides very good insight on the scriptures as an Open Cannon. The guidance we need is found in the scriptures through the direction of the Holy Ghost. If you read Nelson's description of his groundbreaking operaiton, you see just what Oaks is talking about. The is no description of surgery in the scriptures. But there is a description of people following a process of prayer and fasting and getting answers. And that is just what Elder Nelson did.

And he got a very important and relevant answer.

there is nothing fact based in Mormon mythology, the only relevant facts are Joe smith suckered some otherwise intelligent people in to a fantasy.


Mormons are fond of spreading "faith-promoting rumors." Members so badly want for the church to be true, in the absence of any evidence they are prone to grab on to anything that might help promote that belief. Then that rumor gets repeated and embellished to the point where most actually believe it to be true. Here are my top ten, yours may differ.

1- The Smithsonian Institute uses the Book of Mormon in its research.
This one started over a hundred years ago and just won't die. Periodically the Smithsonian Institute (and the National Geographical Society) sends notices to the church saying "please, please tell your people to stop calling us. We have never found any connection with your book and any archeology discovered in the Americas."

2- Polygamy was needed in the early church because there was an overabundance of single women who needed husbands.
Not so! A check of every census record of Illinois and Utah, from 1840 through 1900 reveals that (like all western frontier locations) men outnumbered the women by a good margin.

3- The LDS church has no paid ministry.
This in true only at the local level through the stake presidency. The top 85 or 90 leaders (General Authorities) do quite well. They receive a salary, allowances, and also are paid as board members for the vast number of church-owned corporations. In the early history of the church, Joseph had a revelation that God desired "he should not labor" and in an act of nepotism, he named his dad the "patriarch," authorizing him to charge a dollar a blessing. (today's patriarchs receive no compensation)

4- The LDS church is the fastest growing church in the world.
It's certainly fast growing, but if you are talking raw numbers, the Catholic church is probably growing fifty times as fast, simply from the birth rate alone. If you are talking percentages, the Assembly of God in Brazil went from almost zero to ten million in only four years! It took the LDS over 160 years to reach that level.

5- The reason the original LDS temple ceremony and the Masonic ritual were virtually identical was that they were both the original ceremonies of Solomon's Temple.
Completely untrue! Secret ceremonies weren't practiced in Solomon's Temple, it was open. Masonic leaders will explain that when Masonry originated in the 16th century, few people could read or write, so it designed a ritual of skits and symbolism to convey its message, as was done in Solomon's time. Within a few days after he became a Master Mason, Joseph simply copied the same ceremony for the Mormon Church.

6- The church name, "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints," is divinely inspired.
If it is, God sure fumbled around a good while before doling out a little inspiration. The original church name in 1830 was "Church of Christ." In 1834 it was changed to "Church of the Latter Day Saints." Then four years later, in 1838 it was again changed to its present name.

7- Joseph Smith made a great prophecy in 1842, the Rocky Mountain prophecy, by predicting the Mormons would come to the Rocky Mountains and become a mighty people.
Church historian Dean Jessee produced the original manuscript from History of the Church showing the authorship was in 1845, after Smith's death. Then years later, after the Saints were in Utah, someone penciled "Rocky Mountains" into the document. Jessee was chastised for revealing this historical tidbit.

8- After Joseph Smith was killed, the apostles knew Brigham Young was the successor by his "transformation" into the image of Joseph.
All the apostles were requested to keep diaries, which are now historical documents. On this Aug. 8, 1844 meeting not a single one recorded it. It didn't pop up as a folk legend until about twenty years later.

9- In the first year of the Mormon settlement in Utah, a plague of locusts (Mormon crickets) threatened to wipe out their crops. God responded with a "miracle", sending an army of seagulls to devour the insects.
This one is true -- however the miracle part is somewhat embellished. The locusts have a seven-year hibernation cycle, and unfortunately the early settlers hit it on the end of the seventh year. For mutual protection, they had made the mistake of planting all their fields together. Therefore, the locust attack was concentrated in one spot in the valley. And the seagulls, which by their fossil remains have been at the Great Salt Lake for over 2,000 years, simply enjoyed their every-seven-year feast. They still do -- only now it's spread over thousands of square miles. (2001 was a bad year, 2008 is next).

10- And for the last one, I want to collectively group thousands of "magic underwear" tales. You've got to hear some of these! When any TBM survives any accident, calamity, or near miss, the reason is always attributed to his/her wearing the holy drawers.
The reality is that safety records, medical records, and the observations of safety experts, paramedics and hospital emergency room personnel all show that Mormons have the same percentages of accidents per capita, and the same injury/death ratios as anybody else in the general population. But the imagined protection continues to make good fodder for monthly Testimony Meetings.




Mormon Urban Legends

 

[Listening]

Yes you are right, and those people with wild interpretations tend to be the ones who don't go to church too often or don't read the book or other scriptures that often. Fortunately there is only one valid interpretation of scriptures. The Prophet's. He tells us the correct one so there doesn't have to be confusion.

I would recommend reading Dallin H. Oaks talk on Scripture Reading and Revelation. In this talk he provides very good insight on the scriptures as an Open Cannon. The guidance we need is found in the scriptures through the direction of the Holy Ghost. If you read Nelson's description of his groundbreaking operaiton, you see just what Oaks is talking about. The is no description of surgery in the scriptures. But there is a description of people following a process of prayer and fasting and getting answers. And that is just what Elder Nelson did.

And he got a very important and relevant answer.

there is nothing fact based in Mormon mythology, the only relevant facts are Joe smith suckered some otherwise intelligent people in to a fantasy.

You have to love the ExMo board !

Please tell me what "fact based" means and when a "faith" goes from being true to false ? Please, I am all ears.

The 10 little tidbits you mentioned are supposed to prove what ? Take one of them, and we can examine it further....once you've provided a standard against which we can judge.

As an example....the fastest growing church......this isn't doctrine. It is a self serving attitude among some membes of the church who somehow think it relates to.....well, something.

Here.....

Mormon Apostle Boyd Packer made mention of this when he addressed a group of Stake Presidents at the North American West Area Training Conference in Walnut Creek, CA in October of 2000. Packer noted, "Currently, convert baptisms worldwide are at a free fall. The number of young men going on missions is going down. One of the worst statistics is the number of less active young women."

Most members I know are well aware of the changes in our trajectory. The church has also been reallocating missionaries to more productive areas.

The "fact" remains that the church in the United States is the second fastest (or that was the last "fact" I heard") growing...in terms of percentages.

So, what mythology you point to, I don't know. The church publishes it's understanding (2nd fastest in U.S.....not fastest....and based on percentages) and this seemed to be consistent with what others are publishing.

Next ?

 

[daws101]

I would recommend reading Dallin H. Oaks talk on Scripture Reading and Revelation. In this talk he provides very good insight on the scriptures as an Open Cannon. The guidance we need is found in the scriptures through the direction of the Holy Ghost. If you read Nelson's description of his groundbreaking operaiton, you see just what Oaks is talking about. The is no description of surgery in the scriptures. But there is a description of people following a process of prayer and fasting and getting answers. And that is just what Elder Nelson did.

And he got a very important and relevant answer.

there is nothing fact based in Mormon mythology, the only relevant facts are Joe smith suckered some otherwise intelligent people in to a fantasy.

You have to love the ExMo board !

Please tell me what "fact based" means and when a "faith" goes from being true to false ? Please, I am all ears.

The 10 little tidbits you mentioned are supposed to prove what ? Take one of them, and we can examine it further....once you've provided a standard against which we can judge.

As an example....the fastest growing church......this isn't doctrine. It is a self serving attitude among some membes of the church who somehow think it relates to.....well, something.

Here.....

Mormon Apostle Boyd Packer made mention of this when he addressed a group of Stake Presidents at the North American West Area Training Conference in Walnut Creek, CA in October of 2000. Packer noted, "Currently, convert baptisms worldwide are at a free fall. The number of young men going on missions is going down. One of the worst statistics is the number of less active young women."

Most members I know are well aware of the changes in our trajectory. The church has also been reallocating missionaries to more productive areas.

The "fact" remains that the church in the United States is the second fastest (or that was the last "fact" I heard") growing...in terms of percentages.

So, what mythology you point to, I don't know. The church publishes it's understanding (2nd fastest in U.S.....not fastest....and based on percentages) and this seemed to be consistent with what others are publishing.

Next ?

the Mormon church is based on a false premise, as all faith is.
anything coming from that premise is by definition false.
I grew up in the mormon church, so all your sales pitches are wasted.

 

[daws101]

Do Mormons believe Jesus and Satan are brothers?
This question gained a great deal of attention when Mitt Romney was running for president of the United States in 2008. At the same time, Christians of many faiths began to realize they couldn’t figure out where Satan came from.

The apostle John said, “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (John 3, KJV Bible) This verse, of course, refers to God. This means Satan was created by God, as was every other being ever created. There is, according to John, no other way anyone or anything can exist.

God created both Satan and Jesus, and in that respect, they are brothers. But in that respect, every person who ever lived is a brother or sister to every other person, because we are all children of God. If we are all God’s children, then we are siblings to every child of God. It no more demeans Jesus to be Satan’s spirit brother than it does for any of us to be related to evil people who have lived on the earth.

To fully understand this, there are several points that must be considered. First, who is Satan? How did he become who he is today?The Bible tells us only a little about his history.

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

(Isaiah 14:12, KJV Bible)

From Isaiah, in the Bible, we learn Satan once lived in Heaven, but fell. Mormon beliefs include further information on this subject.

Before we were born, we all lived in Heaven with God, who was the creator of our spirits. Although we didn’t yet have bodies, we did have our own personalities. We learned, developed talents and interests, and started becoming the person we are. We had agency-the right to choose. Some of us chose well, and others didn’t, just as we do today.

When we reached the limits of our ability to progress there, God planned for the earth to be created, and for us to live away from him for a time. Now we’d gain a body, families, and the chance to find out if we

could live God’s teachings when He wasn’t right there with us. The plan, which He presented to us, explained we’d make mistakes, so He would send us a Redeemer, who would voluntarily give up His own sinless life to atone for our sins. Jesus Christ offered to be that Redeemer. He was God’s oldest Son, the first spirit created, and so, our oldest brother. We’d be free to make choices, but were expected to find and live the truth. Jesus would “make up the difference,” meaning He would do what we couldn’t do for ourselves, after we’d done all we could. He would atone for our sins, something impossible for those who sin to do alone.

Satan disliked this plan. He tried to convince us to change it. He suggested we’d come to earth, give up our right to agency, and let him control our every action and thought, so we couldn’t possibly sin. In return, however, he wanted to be exalted above God, as Isaiah said. Jesus, on the other hand, wanted God to have all the glory. This would make life on earth meaningless as a place of learning.

Each of us was allowed to choose whether or not to accept God’s plan. Satan was cast out of Heaven, which is what Isaiah meant when he said Lucifer fell from heaven, and why Satan is known as a fallen angel. Those who rejected God’s plan were also cast out and had to follow Satan for eternity.

Some have felt God couldn’t have created Satan, because Satan is evil. However, God didn’t create an evil being. Satan, like all other wicked people, made his own choices. God created each of us with a spark of divinity within, which we could accept and grow, or reject. We can’t blame God if we choose to ignore the great gifts He’s offered us and choose instead to live a selfish, greedy life. In the end, this is what was behind Satan’s fall. He could have been a good and even great spiritual leader had he made wise choices in his pre-mortal life, using his talents and ability to influence others for good. He didn’t choose to develop into that kind of being. He wanted all the glory and honor for himself, to be exalted above God. Having been refused this opportunity, he is now trying to increase his following, not because he loves us, as do God and Satan, but because he is greedy and wants power and glory. Unfortunately, today, even some of those who rejected him are choosing to follow him now. They too were given a spark of divinity at creation, but are choosing to become wicked.

You can see from the few scriptural references we have God must have created Satan, or John was wrong-and John taught truth, so he was not wrong. We can see from Isaiah Satan once lived in Heaven. These two facts make it clear Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers, in that God created both their spirits, and we too are spirit brothers and sisters with them for the same reason. It’s important, as we progress in our mortal lives, to choose to follow our oldest brother, Jesus, and not Satan. Like Jesus and Satan, we can each become who God chose for us to become, or we can honor Satan and destroy our great God-given gifts.

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Do Mormons Believe Jesus and Satan are Brothers? | Mormon Church

 

[daws101]

KolobFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Detail of Joseph Smith Hypocephalus, which according to Joseph Smith, Jr. contains a representation of Kolob (reference numeral 1). According to Egyptologists, this depicts an Egyptian creation god.Kolob is a star or planet described in Mormon scripture. Reference to Kolob is found in the Book of Abraham, a work published by Latter Day Saint (LDS) prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. as translation from Egyptian papyri. According to this work, Kolob is the heavenly body nearest to the throne or residence of God. While the Book of Abraham refers to Kolob as a "star",[1] it also refers to planets as stars,[2] and therefore, some LDS commentators consider Kolob to be a planet.[3] Other Latter Day Saints (commonly referred to as Mormons) consider Kolob to be a Christian metaphor.

Kolob has never been identified with any modern astronomical object and is not recognized as an ancient concept by modern Egyptology. Kolob is rarely discussed in modern LDS religious contexts, but it is periodically a topic of discussion in criticism of Mormonism. The idea also appears within LDS culture, and there is a LDS hymn about it. Kolob is also the inspiration for the planet Kobol within the Battlestar Galactica universe, created by Glen A. Larson, a Mormon.[4][5]

 

[Listening]

the Mormon church is based on a false premise, as all faith is.
anything coming from that premise is by definition false.
I grew up in the mormon church, so all your sales pitches are wasted.[/QUOTE]

"False premise" ? Still to be established against any standard.

All I hear is that since Joseph Smith was bad, the church is wrong. Or.....the church did this wrong so it must be false.

Sales pitch ???

What sales pitch ?

 

[JohnA]

the Mormon church is based on a false premise, as all faith is.
anything coming from that premise is by definition false.
I grew up in the mormon church, so all your sales pitches are wasted.

"False premise" ? Still to be established against any standard.

All I hear is that since Joseph Smith was bad, the church is wrong. Or.....the church did this wrong so it must be false.

Sales pitch ???

What sales pitch ?[/QUOTE]
all religions have a sales pitch
and they are all good ones to get control of the masses
examples
there is life after death
there is a god watching over you

etc etc

think about it they are selling you something that there has never been any evidence of proof
there is no way you can return goods or ask for a refund if the pitch proves to be false
YOU ARE DEAD SO YOU CANT CLAIM

religion cannot be sued like any other company for false or unjustified claims
its the best business to be in to make money without given anything tangable in return

RELIGIOUS SALES PITCH ITS THE BEST ONE EVER DREAMED UP
the mormons have there magic underwear
the jews have there *caps *
the catholics have there pointy hats and purple gowns
the moslims have there* virgins * after death .
etc etc
they all have some mystic tradition and munbo jumbo to sell the product as if it is the truth .
talk bout sales pitch

 

[JoeB131]

the Mormon church is based on a false premise, as all faith is.
anything coming from that premise is by definition false.
I grew up in the mormon church, so all your sales pitches are wasted.

"False premise" ? Still to be established against any standard.

All I hear is that since Joseph Smith was bad, the church is wrong. Or.....the church did this wrong so it must be false.

Sales pitch ???

What sales pitch ?

No, Smith was wrong because he's already been caught faking it.

He claimed the Book of Abraham was based on Egyptian Papyrus he owned. Those Papyri were later found and identified as a pagan funerary scroll which didn't say what he claimed they did. He made it up.

He claimed that the Kinderhook Tablets were the account of Nephite writing in "reformed Egyptian". They turned out to be fakes by his neighbors pranking him, before his other neighbors thought shooting him would be much funnier. (And it was pretty funking hilarious!)

So we know he was wrong or lying in two cases. So we have his religion, based on supposed Golden Tablets that only he saw, that he never submitted to any other expert or authority, which he cannot produce for examination.

Oh, yeah, and God told he needed to have 35 wives, some as young as 14, because God said so.

 

[Listening]

No, Smith was wrong because he's already been caught faking it.

My guess is that you are just jealous because you didn't get the small amount of education he did. That or you just never grew up.

It's going to take much more than what you have provided to "prove" he was faking it. Much much more.

Look what he did in 38 years. You are well past that and just a bitter crust of humanity.

Watch out for those neighbors (your new ones that have moved in since the market has given them a chance to live in your "classy" digs). They might find shooting you to be pretty funny too.

One word: Kevlar

 

[JoeB131]

No, Smith was wrong because he's already been caught faking it.

My guess is that you are just jealous because you didn't get the small amount of education he did. That or you just never grew up.

It's going to take much more than what you have provided to "prove" he was faking it. Much much more.

Look what he did in 38 years. You are well past that and just a bitter crust of humanity.

Watch out for those neighbors (your new ones that have moved in since the market has given them a chance to live in your "classy" digs). They might find shooting you to be pretty funny too.

One word: Kevlar

Well, since I'm not seducing their teenage daughters, like that scumwad smith did to his neighbors, I suspect that they wouldn't form an angry mob like his did.

But come on, that was fuckin' hilarious, Smith was reportedly screaming like a little bitch when they shot him...

Hysterically funny.

The difference between Joseph Smith and David Koresh?

Original and Extra-Crispy.

Oh, by the way, Duly noted that you DODGED the point about the Book of Abraham and the Kinderhook Tablets.

And I didn't even talk about how Smith said there were Quakers on the Moon... Ooops. I guess the all suffocated by the time Neil and Buzz got there.

 

[Listening]

Well, since I'm not seducing their teenage daughters, like that scumwad smith did to his neighbors, I suspect that they wouldn't form an angry mob like his did.

My guess is that even 14 year olds have discriminating tastes and the only reason you are not seducing them or anyone else is because you can't.

 

[JohnA]

No, Smith was wrong because he's already been caught faking it.

My guess is that you are just jealous because you didn't get the small amount of education he did. That or you just never grew up.

It's going to take much more than what you have provided to "prove" he was faking it. Much much more.

Look what he did in 38 years. You are well past that and just a bitter crust of humanity.

Watch out for those neighbors (your new ones that have moved in since the market has given them a chance to live in your "classy" digs). They might find shooting you to be pretty funny too.

One word: Kevlar

Well, since I'm not seducing their teenage daughters, like that scumwad smith did to his neighbors, I suspect that they wouldn't form an angry mob like his did.

...

Hysterically funny.

The difference between Joseph Smith and David Koresh?

Original and Extra-Crispy.

Oh, by the way, Duly noted that you DODGED the point about the Book of Abraham and the Kinderhook Tablets.

And I didn't even talk about how Smith said there were Quakers on the Moon... Ooops. I guess the all suffocated by the time Neil and Buzz got there.

But come on, that was fuckin' hilarious, Smith was reportedly screaming like a little bitch when they shot him


they should have fucked him up the ass before killing him like he fucked everybody else
OH perhaps thats why he was screaming

 

[Listening]

My guess is that you are just jealous because you didn't get the small amount of education he did. That or you just never grew up.

It's going to take much more than what you have provided to "prove" he was faking it. Much much more.

Look what he did in 38 years. You are well past that and just a bitter crust of humanity.

Watch out for those neighbors (your new ones that have moved in since the market has given them a chance to live in your "classy" digs). They might find shooting you to be pretty funny too.

One word: Kevlar

Well, since I'm not seducing their teenage daughters, like that scumwad smith did to his neighbors, I suspect that they wouldn't form an angry mob like his did.

...

Hysterically funny.

The difference between Joseph Smith and David Koresh?

Original and Extra-Crispy.

Oh, by the way, Duly noted that you DODGED the point about the Book of Abraham and the Kinderhook Tablets.

And I didn't even talk about how Smith said there were Quakers on the Moon... Ooops. I guess the all suffocated by the time Neil and Buzz got there.

But come on, that was fuckin' hilarious, Smith was reportedly screaming like a little bitch when they shot him


they should have fucked him up the ass before killing him like he fucked everybody else
OH perhaps thats why he was screaming

Wow !

This board seems to have quite a number of people who swim in sexual fantasies.

I hope you guys keep your keyboards covered.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, since I'm not seducing their teenage daughters, like that scumwad smith did to his neighbors, I suspect that they wouldn't form an angry mob like his did.

My guess is that even 14 year olds have discriminating tastes and the only reason you are not seducing them or anyone else is because you can't.

Dude, that you even think that seducing a 14 year old is something anyone would want to do is kind of scary...

Hey, I hear Warren Jeff's job is open. Those nutters need a new prophet.

 

[Listening]

Dude, that you even think that seducing a 14 year old is something anyone would want to do is kind of scary....

I never bring the subject up you idiot.

You are the one who keeps putting it in your posts. I can only assume you are some frustrated male who somehow has to vent at someone because of what it is that won't happen for you.

Please don't speak for me. You don't speak very well for yourself and I sure don't need your "help".