The truth about Truman’s bombing Japan

[harmonica]

whoever thinks Japan was ready to surrender obviously has no knowledge of WW2

You are merely a typical uninformed propagandized American. Sadly, there are too many like you.

72nd Anniversary of Hiroshima’s Gratuitous Mass Murder
By Stephen Lendman

StephenLendman.org

August 8, 2017you are not informed. T

Japan's Government REFUSED to surrender even after 2 atomic Bombs and then when the Emperor intervened and ordered the surrender the Army tried a Coup to stop that. This bullshit claim that Japan was ready to surrender is simply a LIE, a poorly done lie easily shown to be a lie and yet you RETARDS keep claiming it.

You are not informed. Please cease and desist from posting in my thread.

The Japanese tried to surrender several times. FDR and Truman ignored them. FDR’s tyrannical unjust and terribly deadly dictate of UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER, lead to the unnecessary deaths of thousands of Americans and Japanese.

For this, FDR and Truman should burn in Hell for eternity.

.....Germany also got POUNDED and POUNDED and they also did NOT surrender till the Russians were in Berlin --and the Germans were not as fanatical as the Japanese
..and you think the Japanese would've surrendered????!!!!
..learn some history

Psst.... Japan DID surrender.

...AFTER TWO A bombs and AFTER the vote ended in a tie and AFTER Japanese tried to stop the surrender--NOT before
so- OBVIOUSLY they were not willing to surrender
..you didn't know any of that--did you??

They surrendered within a week of Hiroshima

We didn’t offer much room to negotiate

they voted 3-3 to surrender AFTER the A bombs ..the vote was TIED
only because of the Abombs did the Emperor vote for surrender --and even then, some Japanese tried to stop it

again, what would you have done?

 

[Vandalshandle]

Even after the bombs, the emperor found it necessary to record his surrender speech to the population the day before broadcasting it, and locking it in a safe, because he feared a coup would develop, with his kidnapping, thus preventing it from being broadcast. He was right. Several senior officers tried to stop the surrender the next day, resulting in a bloodbath.

In addition to that, officers of the military labeled the bombs the equivalent of "fake news", and refused to tell the truth to the Japanese people, who had never even been told that they had lost the battle of Midway, years before.

 

[sparky]

again, what would you have done?

To my reading nagasaki & hiroshima were on the south end, pointing torward Tokyo on the north end of Japan

We planned a dozen atomic incidents leading up to ,and including Tokyo, but it only took 2

So what not (as Rwinger suggested) have started out in the E China sea, maybe an atoll or two first????

~S~

 

[Vandalshandle]

again, what would you have done?

To my reading nagasaki & hiroshima were on the south end, pointing torward Tokyo on the north end of Japan

We planned a dozen atomic incidents leading up to ,and including Tokyo, but it only took 2

So what not (as Rwinger suggested) have started out in the E China sea, maybe an atoll or two first????

~S~

Nagasaki and Hiroshima had been off limits to Curtis LeMay's bombers, because we wanted these cities undamaged, in order to properly measure and demonstrate the power of the atomic bomb.

It is also noteworthy that in the Emperor's speech to the nation about the surrender, he never used the Japanese word for "surrender". He said that it was necessary to "endure the unendurable". That was as far as he went. Japanese history books did not mention the word, "surrender" until the late 1960's. Until then, it was, according to the Japanese, a "negotiated peace".

 

[Markle]

The best American value is that many Americans didn't die in the invasion of Japan.

Very true

But why did we bomb the way we did?
Why TWO civilian targets?

Why not a demonstration on an uninhabited target with a warning the next would be on Tokyo?

Why was Nagasaki necessary? Why was it dropped so soon without allowing time for negotiations after Hiroshima?

There was nothing to negotiate. Surrender. Period.

You WIN a war by totally destroying your enemy along with their ability and will to commit war. It really is that simple.

False. Even Truman, who was Vice president, didn't know that the bombs existed until after be was sworn in as president.

Key Issues: Nuclear Weapons: History: Pre Cold War: Hiroshima and Nagasaki: Eisenhower's Opinion on the Atomic Bomb

I don't need to read it. Ike's opinion on the atomic bomb was formed long after it had been dropped. He did not know about it before then. Ike was a big believer in covert action, instead of massive force. He routinely used the CIA to topple freely elected Latin American political leaders, in favor of his golfing buddies from United Fruit Company, who did not want land redistributed to the people ..

"Dwight Eisenhower's view on using the Atomic Bomb

"In 1945 ... , Secretary of War Stimson visited my headquarters in Germany, [and] informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan..."

Doesn't seem "long after it had been dropped. Note the "preparing to drop" phrase.

Seems kind of odd that nobody notified McArthur, Supreme Commander in the Pacific, or Curtis LeMay, in charge of the Army Air Corp bombing campaign of Japan....

You would think they would need to know of the development of a super weapon that would impact their long range planning

That's how it was kept secret.

 

[Markle]

again, what would you have done?

To my reading nagasaki & hiroshima were on the south end, pointing torward Tokyo on the north end of Japan

We planned a dozen atomic incidents leading up to ,and including Tokyo, but it only took 2

So what not (as Rwinger suggested) have started out in the E China sea, maybe an atoll or two first????

~S~

We only had three bombs. One was used for testing, to see if it even worked and the other two for use in Japan, or wherever was necessary. It would have taken a minimum of six months to build another bomb much less ten.

You are ignoring the horrors the Japanese perpetrated on the civilians they conquered along with the prisoners of war. Don't forget the Bataan Death March which took place way back in 1942. The Japanese military killed millions of civilians. Not unlike Germany.

"Casualties are the brutal reality of warfare. The number of deaths resulting from the Second World War remains uncertain, but was around 70 million persons. Of these, around 22 million were military deaths while the remainder were civilians killed during military operations, through famine, or in crimes against humanity. This represents about 3% of the total world population at the time. Casualties in the Pacific War numbered around 36 million or 50% of the total casualties of the Second World War."

The Pacific War Online Encyclopedia: Casualties

 

[Markle]

LOL after 2 cities were destroyed the Japanese Government still refused to surrender, explain in detail what bombing a non military target would have done to convince them when 2 cites were not enough dumb ass. And the cites were war producing cities AND BOTH were Army Headquarters organizing the local areas into fighting the coming Invasion. NOT civilian targets at all.

They surrendered immediately after Nagasaki was bombed

We had the bomb, we were going to win without invading

Bombing a remote target with minimal population would have demonstrated the power we had. Japan could have seen firsthand the destructive power we now had with minimal loss of lives

If after the demonstration and a threat to start bombing major cities, Japan refused surrender, then we were morally entitled to drop an A bomb

They did NOT the Government voted NOT to surrender the Emperor intervened to over rule them then the ruling party ( the Army) staged a Coup to stop the Emperor. At least leanr the facts before you try to lie about them.

Which resulted in surrender

Does not support that the anihilation of Hiroshima AND Nagasaki were the only way to achieve those goals

We had time on our side. Once we had the bomb and nobody else did, we could have selectively upped the anti

Three days between Hiroshima and Nagasaki did not leave much room for negotiation

The Japanese responded and the Government demanded the same thing it already had a ceasefire with return to 41 start lines.

Again, the bomb changed their mind

We did not need to destroy two cities to prove the power of the bomb

Like it or not, it worked and saved millions of lives.

 

[Markle]

Both LeMay and Mac wanted to nuke the hell out of North Korea. 30 -40 bombs

We only had three nukes in WWII but they would have flattened Japan if they could

We could have taken the chance to nuke an unpopulated island with the assurance that the next one would land on Tokyo

Once we had the bomb......there was no real hurry

That's just foolish! Stupid in fact.

The allies were fighting daily and suffering under horrid conditions. The Soviet Union had just declared war on Japan and were invading from the North.

Easy for you to say, sitting in your comfortable house...seventy years later.

You also were not one of the millions who received a telegram like this from the government after not hearing from your loved one for four months.

 

[Markle]

.and you think the Japanese would've surrendered????!!!!

Only if the emperor himself told them to.

Further reading reveals some japanese communication w/ russia , not quite sure of the story , but possiblly they were looking for a liason ?

~S~

August 8, 1945, The USSR declared war on Japan.

 

[Markle]

Japan knew of & expected serious retaliation for Pearl Harbor and I surely wouldn't call them defenseless.

I just don't think anyone expected such destruction

If a nation destroys an enemy's naval base for starters what destruction would be appropriate? Maybe if the Japanese cut off the heads of our fliers the destruction would have seemed more appropriate? What do you think?

I think the whole point of the USA was that we are NOT blood thirsty savages and we do NOT go around slaughtering innocent people. When attacked, we fight back, we win, but we BEHAVE IN A FKN CIVILIZED FASHION and we do NOT behave like our enemies!

or am I wrong?

You've never been in a street fight, have you?

 

[Markle]

whoever thinks Japan was ready to surrender obviously has no knowledge of WW2

You are merely a typical uninformed propagandized American. Sadly, there are too many like you.

72nd Anniversary of Hiroshima’s Gratuitous Mass Murder
By Stephen Lendman

StephenLendman.org

August 8, 2017you are not informed. T

Japan's Government REFUSED to surrender even after 2 atomic Bombs and then when the Emperor intervened and ordered the surrender the Army tried a Coup to stop that. This bullshit claim that Japan was ready to surrender is simply a LIE, a poorly done lie easily shown to be a lie and yet you RETARDS keep claiming it.

You are not informed. Please cease and desist from posting in my thread.

The Japanese tried to surrender several times. FDR and Truman ignored them. FDR’s tyrannical unjust and terribly deadly dictate of UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER, lead to the unnecessary deaths of thousands of Americans and Japanese.

For this, FDR and Truman should burn in Hell for eternity.

.....Germany also got POUNDED and POUNDED and they also did NOT surrender till the Russians were in Berlin --and the Germans were not as fanatical as the Japanese
..and you think the Japanese would've surrendered????!!!!
..learn some history

Psst.... Japan DID surrender.

...AFTER TWO A bombs and AFTER the vote ended in a tie and AFTER Japanese tried to stop the surrender--NOT before
so- OBVIOUSLY they were not willing to surrender
..you didn't know any of that--did you??

They surrendered within a week of Hiroshima

We didn’t offer much room to negotiate

Wow, you catch on quick! Not much room to negotiate, you say? That's the plan baby, that's the plan!

Have you ever watched a boxing match? An MMA fight? When one of the fighters is on the ropes, staggering or just covering up, does the other fighter back off and let his opponent recover or do they go in for the knockout?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I see absolutely NO source documents from any of the revisionist history types.

Somebody seems to want to think MacArthur lied to Roosevelt. Someone is very desperate to sell his Google search.

Someone has no ACTUAL evidence as for MacArthur lying? Seems he did that in Korea too. I have actual links to documents you have hearsay.

 

[gipper]

You are not informed. Please cease and desist from posting in my thread.

The Japanese tried to surrender several times. FDR and Truman ignored them. FDR’s tyrannical unjust and terribly deadly dictate of UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER, lead to the unnecessary deaths of thousands of Americans and Japanese.

For this, FDR and Truman should burn in Hell for eternity.

Prove it, with a reliable source and link. You can't. So please, excuse yourself and go hide with the other USMB Troll Collection.

Already done. Many times. You just need to open your mind and eliminate your statist inclinations.

If the Japanese government’s requests for surrender is new to you, then you have to admit you are not informed.

 

[sparky]

We only had three bombs. One was used for testing, to see if it even worked and the other two for use in Japan, or wherever was necessary. It would have taken a minimum of six months to build another bomb much less ten.

try this>
U.S. Planned to Drop 12 Atomic Bombs on Japan

August 8, 1945, The USSR declared war on Japan.

intertesting history.....

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-USSR-agree-to-attack-Japan-on-August-8-1945

~S~

 

[rightwinger]

Maybe a Vice President didn’t need to know
Those leading our military forces needed to know what weapons were available and what was coming

It had major impact on military strategy

You have to keep in mind the mind set of some of our military commanders. Curtis Lemay, for example, was the model for "Jack D Ripper", in Dr. Strangelove, the SAC Commander who went crazy and started a nuclear war. After WW2 was over, the president directed that all nuclear weapons be put directly under his personal control. LeMay tried to hold back a few, "just in case". It didn't work. LeMay went on to run as George Wallace's running mate. MacArthur advocated nuclear war against Korea, and presumable China as well, during the Korean war.

Besides. If word had gotten out to the Japanese that we were putting the invasion on hold, they would have assumed a much stronger negotiating position. In fact, it was recommended to Truman that he blow up an unpopulated Japanese Island instead of a city. Truman rejected the advice, correctly, in my opinion, that the Japanese would have assumed that we were not prepared to actually use it against the people of Japan. He was not afraid to use it, which is one of many reasons that Truman is my personal hero.

Both LeMay and Mac wanted to nuke the hell out of North Korea. 30 -40 bombs

We only had three nukes in WWII but they would have flattened Japan if they could

We could have taken the chance to nuke an unpopulated island with the assurance that the next one would land on Tokyo

Once we had the bomb......there was no real hurry

The hurry was to win the war before the Soviets had a chance to turn Tokyo into another East Berlin.

We are talking days

The Soviets would have taken a year and provided additional incentive to surrender

what's your plan?? to wait?
you people are GENIUSES
you would make a better POTUS than Truman or anybody
you have all the answers

Yes, wait more than three days before killing another 100,000 civilians
We should have entered into negotiations after Hiroshima with the understanding that there was more to come

 

[rightwinger]

We only had three bombs. One was used for testing, to see if it even worked and the other two for use in Japan, or wherever was necessary. It would have taken a minimum of six months to build another bomb much less ten.

try this>
U.S. Planned to Drop 12 Atomic Bombs on Japan

August 8, 1945, The USSR declared war on Japan.

intertesting history.....

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-USSR-agree-to-attack-Japan-on-August-8-1945

~S~

Interesting link

We had more bombs coming down the pike and ramped up production after the war

An invasion was never going to be necessary

 

[sparky]

We only had three bombs. One was used for testing, to see if it even worked and the other two for use in Japan, or wherever was necessary. It would have taken a minimum of six months to build another bomb much less ten.

try this>
U.S. Planned to Drop 12 Atomic Bombs on Japan

August 8, 1945, The USSR declared war on Japan.

intertesting history.....

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-USSR-agree-to-attack-Japan-on-August-8-1945

~S~

Interesting link

We had more bombs coming down the pike and ramped up production after the war

An invasion was never going to be necessary

The approval ratings then, and 70 yrs after are interesting, almost inversely proportional. I'm unsure if it simply being niave of things nuclear then, or the reality of mass causalties.

If the latter is chief concern, think of how many civilian deaths were assumed in our warfare history since , it actually amounts (all told) to far more....

~S~

 

[Picaro]

On other major reason was they also a warning to Stalin and Mao, a factor most don't consider. Stalin was trying to grab as much of Japanese territory as he could, and doubtful he would have been intimated out of further mischief if we hand't dropped them both; he already knew we had them, but not whether they would actually work. Same for the cretin Mao's ambitions along all of his borders.

 

[harmonica]

You have to keep in mind the mind set of some of our military commanders. Curtis Lemay, for example, was the model for "Jack D Ripper", in Dr. Strangelove, the SAC Commander who went crazy and started a nuclear war. After WW2 was over, the president directed that all nuclear weapons be put directly under his personal control. LeMay tried to hold back a few, "just in case". It didn't work. LeMay went on to run as George Wallace's running mate. MacArthur advocated nuclear war against Korea, and presumable China as well, during the Korean war.

Besides. If word had gotten out to the Japanese that we were putting the invasion on hold, they would have assumed a much stronger negotiating position. In fact, it was recommended to Truman that he blow up an unpopulated Japanese Island instead of a city. Truman rejected the advice, correctly, in my opinion, that the Japanese would have assumed that we were not prepared to actually use it against the people of Japan. He was not afraid to use it, which is one of many reasons that Truman is my personal hero.

Both LeMay and Mac wanted to nuke the hell out of North Korea. 30 -40 bombs

We only had three nukes in WWII but they would have flattened Japan if they could

We could have taken the chance to nuke an unpopulated island with the assurance that the next one would land on Tokyo

Once we had the bomb......there was no real hurry

The hurry was to win the war before the Soviets had a chance to turn Tokyo into another East Berlin.

We are talking days
y
The Soviets would have taken a year and provided additional incentive to surrender

what's your plan?? to wait?
you people are GENIUSES
you would make a better POTUS than Truman or anybody
you have all the answers

Yes, wait more than three days before killing another 100,000 civilians
We should have entered into negotiations after Hiroshima with the understanding that there was more to come

they needed to think we had many bombs because of what I said before:
they needed a HUGE shock
again:
even after TWO Abombs, the vote was tied AND some Japanese tried to stop the surrender and MANY more did NOT want to surrender
what don't you understand about that??

Confidential reports added that “even after two atom bombs, they preferred to fight on till they are all dead. Death or glory.”

U.S. Planned to Drop 12 Atomic Bombs on Japan
how much and how detailed have you people read on the subject?
....I remember reading how some Japanese leaders said the US didn't have any more bombs, so we shouldn't surrender

AGAIN:
what's the difference between regular bombs killing 100,000 and an A bomb killing about 50,000 initially???!!!!

 

[harmonica]

You have to keep in mind the mind set of some of our military commanders. Curtis Lemay, for example, was the model for "Jack D Ripper", in Dr. Strangelove, the SAC Commander who went crazy and started a nuclear war. After WW2 was over, the president directed that all nuclear weapons be put directly under his personal control. LeMay tried to hold back a few, "just in case". It didn't work. LeMay went on to run as George Wallace's running mate. MacArthur advocated nuclear war against Korea, and presumable China as well, during the Korean war.

Besides. If word had gotten out to the Japanese that we were putting the invasion on hold, they would have assumed a much stronger negotiating position. In fact, it was recommended to Truman that he blow up an unpopulated Japanese Island instead of a city. Truman rejected the advice, correctly, in my opinion, that the Japanese would have assumed that we were not prepared to actually use it against the people of Japan. He was not afraid to use it, which is one of many reasons that Truman is my personal hero.

Both LeMay and Mac wanted to nuke the hell out of North Korea. 30 -40 bombs

We only had three nukes in WWII but they would have flattened Japan if they could

We could have taken the chance to nuke an unpopulated island with the assurance that the next one would land on Tokyo

Once we had the bomb......there was no real hurry

The hurry was to win the war before the Soviets had a chance to turn Tokyo into another East Berlin.

We are talking days

The Soviets would have taken a year and provided additional incentive to surrender

what's your plan?? to wait?
you people are GENIUSES
you would make a better POTUS than Truman or anybody
you have all the answers

Yes, wait more than three days before killing another 100,000 civilians
We should have entered into negotiations after Hiroshima with the understanding that there was more to come

Truman called for surrender the day after the bombing at Hiroshima once more, but once more the Japanese government refused

The Manhattan Project and the atomic bomb
jesus christ, it sounds like you people have about zero knowledge on the subject

AFTER Hiroshima:

The opposing group, maintaining that the real test of Japan's strength was yet to come in the expected Homeland battle, argued that once severe casualties had been inflicted on the invasion force, it would be possible to terminate, the war on more favorable terms.

, he attempted to minimize the effectiveness of the atom bomb on the home front

AFTER Nagasaki:

Chiefs of the Army and Navy General Staffs, went to the Imperial Palace together and made a joint plea to the Emperor to reject the Allied conditions.

Suzuki, revealing dissatisfaction with the Allied reply, stated bluntly that there was no alternative but to continue the war

The surrender discussions had now been deadlocked for more than four days,

Chapter 20: Decision to Surrender