The U.S. and other nations have no definition of victory in Ukraine

[Blaster]

You agree that Israel is currently committing genocide then?

No

 

[GLASNOST]

The U.S. and other nations have no definition of victory in Ukraine

Have you people learned nothing from the war in Vietnam? The Military-Industrial Complex celebrated victory on the day the first shot was fired, and each day is a victory for as long as the war continues. The sum of victory is only tallied when the last shot is fired and the total amount of tax dollars extorted is compared to all wars preceding it. I mean, seriously, people ….. are you stupid?

 

[MarcATL]

No

The question was posed to gipper , as he's the one who used the term "Genocide Joe."

 

[bendog]

We need an exit strategy for our funding and emptying of our military stockpiles.

If the effect of arming Ukrainians to fight and die (and worse) is stopping Putin from reacquiring the Tsarist Empire, it seems to me we're .... WINNING

It's a sad fact of war that larger nations tend to use up proxies.

People can argue who started this, but the bottom line is most Ukrainians (esp W of the Dnieper) want to be in a free trade zone in the EU. Russia doesn't want Ukrainians to have that choice.

And yeah, ultimately that probably will help western capitalist countries .... eventually. But Ukraine's contribution may be much more than in yankee dollars.

But I worry about the US state of readiness

 

[martybegan]

If the effect of arming Ukrainians to fight and die (and worse) is stopping Putin from reacquiring the Tsarist Empire, it seems to me we're .... WINNING

It's a sad fact of war that larger nations tend to use up proxies.

People can argue who started this, but the bottom line is most Ukrainians (esp W of the Dnieper) want to be in a free trade zone in the EU. Russia doesn't want Ukrainians to have that choice.

And yeah, ultimately that probably will help western capitalist countries .... eventually. But Ukraine's contribution may be much more than in yankee dollars.

But I worry about the US state of readiness

We aren't winning, we are slowly losing in a stalemate.

And a Russian win will make them look West and Northwest.

 

[Ringo]

Russia and Ukraine had 2 Peace Deals
He didn't want any of Ukraine's land
The West interfered and killed those deals
Now they're saying he wants all of Ukraine, Europe, Earth and all of our sock drawers

Stop falling for their bullsh*t

 

[bendog]

We aren't winning, we are slowly losing in a stalemate.

And a Russian win will make them look West and Northwest.

Do you really think Putin is in any shape to take on the Poles or the Baltics? Esp the Poles, assuming we replaced their tanks with ones we're not using.

Imo, Ukraine may be stalemating. The F-16s should be able to stop Putin's drones and glide bombs without coming near Russian airspace, and if Russia turns on its radars .... that probably would be unhealthy, given the abilities of the West v. radar. But that's hardly a bad thing.

At this point, Putin is just playing for time and praying for Trump to save his ass.

 

[martybegan]

Do you really think Putin is in any shape to take on the Poles or the Baltics? Esp the Poles, assuming we replaced their tanks with ones we're not using.

Imo, Ukraine may be stalemating. The F-16s should be able to stop Putin's drones and glide bombs without coming near Russian airspace, and if Russia turns on its radars .... that probably would be unhealthy, given the abilities of the West v. radar. But that's hardly a bad thing.

At this point, Putin is just playing for time and praying for Trump to save his ass.

Airpower can hurt but not destroy ground troops unless you have US level Air Supremacy.

Biden could win and this could still be going on for 5 more years, unless you advocate for direct US intervention is removing Russian forces from Donbas and the Crimea.

 

[eagle1462010]

MAGA has made it pretty clear, they're with Putin.

They love their dictators.

We made it clear America First. Secure the border before anything else.

It was ignored. The RINOs gave Biden everything he wanted.

Border still fucked.

Why cant Europe handle their own back yard for once?

 

[bendog]

Airpower can hurt but not destroy ground troops unless you have US level Air Supremacy.

Biden could win and this could still be going on for 5 more years, unless you advocate for direct US intervention is removing Russian forces from Donbas and the Crimea.

I didn't post anything about airpower v. boots. We are not going to create an DMZ populated only with dead bodies.

What may be a stalemate is Ukraine being able to largely protect its cities, and place Russian civilians in harms way.

 

[martybegan]

I didn't post anything about airpower v. boots. We are not going to create an DMZ populated only with dead bodies.

What may be a stalemate is Ukraine being able to largely protect its cities, and place Russian civilians in harms way.

What's happening is a slaughter that has no end in sight because neither side is willing to bend on it's demands.

they are stuck in a technological version of WWI

 

[bendog]

What's happening is a slaughter that has no end in sight because neither side is willing to bend on it's demands.

they are stuck in a technological version of WWI

Ukrainians seem adamant about not being Russians. Russians seem adamant about making Ukraine Russian.

I just don't see a moral or econ reason to not aid them in killing more Russians. At some point, Ukraine may run out of humans before Russia. But no one knows really how this will end. I think Xi can end it, if he chooses. But I don't see what his motivation would be.

Perhaps, trade with the EU.

 

[martybegan]

Ukrainians seem adamant about not being Russians. Russians seem adamant about making Ukraine Russian.

I just don't see a moral or econ reason to not aid them in killing more Russians. At some point, Ukraine may run out of humans before Russia. But no one knows really how this will end. I think Xi can end it, if he chooses. But I don't see what his motivation would be.

Perhaps, trade with the EU.

In Donbas and Crimea what percentage of the population identifies as Russian Ethnicity?

Aiding them in prolonging a fight we know they will just lose eventually fails on the moral merits.

 

[gipper]

You agree that Israel is currently committing genocide then?

Of course. Isn’t it obvious? I’ve made it clear since late last year and I was banned four times on this forum for this opinion. I was never banned before in 10 years posting here, but I’ve always been adamantly anti-war.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Same old story repeated over and over, by the corrupt US government. Every war it’s instigated since Vietnam, has been about MONEY and POWER. Sadly few Americans seem to comprehend this.

They say the quiet part out loud now...

 

[elektra]

You agree that Israel is currently committing genocide then?

At this rate of Genocide, Israel will have completly wiped out the Palestinians in 14,250 years.

 

[martybegan]

I blame most of this mess on congressional Republicans, and then MAGA media. This has never been about the main guy. It's always about the enablers.

How much more money and stockpiles should we be sending over there?

What would that accomplish?

 

[ESay]

Airpower can hurt but not destroy ground troops unless you have US level Air Supremacy.

Biden could win and this could still be going on for 5 more years, unless you advocate for direct US intervention is removing Russian forces from Donbas and the Crimea.

Fingers crossed for Trump, man. Five more years of this stupid war is insanity.

 

[martybegan]

They say the quiet part out loud now...

An economic security reason is far more valid than "RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA"

 

[martybegan]

Fingers crossed for Trump, man. Five more years of this stupid war is insanity.

I don't see him getting out quick either. Congress might still fund aid to Ukraine.