The UCLA shooting shows how silly opponents of campus carry are....

[Divine Wind]

You did nothing of the sort, and I don' waste time reading through your NRA propaganda

I do notice you've gotten increasingly panicky since Scalia took that trip to the Infernal Regions, though.

Translation: I don't read facts unless they come from sources of which I approve.

 

[Divine Wind]

...We have 33,000 gun deaths a year in this country. Only 200 of them are ruled justifiable uses of force by a civilian. That should tell you everything right there.... )

How many are murders and how many are suicides?

 

[Rustic]

Good luck... Lol

It's a lengthy process. One problem with "modern" Americans is impatience. Too many are enamored with "instant gratification".

Last year was the 200th anniversary of the end of the War of 1812. When kids are taught history they read about the events leading up to the revolution, the Revolution, the aftermath including writing and ratifying the Constitution, Louis & Clark, and the War of 1812. Most can read it in their texts in a few hours.

I remember the Bicentennial. Ford was President in 1976. I was a junior in college. Last year I was 59. 1976 to 2015 was a lifetime. It was no different for our Founders. Those young men and women who fought in the Revolution were old grandparents when the War of 1812 was fought. Change took time then and it takes time now. It's a constant push and most of us will never see the fruits of our labors.

An ancient Greek proverb is 'Society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.'

A quote from "Galaxy Quest" is "Never give up, never surrender!"

Both work for me.

I like - never trust the government to do the right thing, for its not your friend...

Perhaps not when it's been taken over by corporate power and then that corporate power takes over the airways and tells you that you and your elected representatives (which they now own) are the enemy. Some folks are going to have to make a decision. Either america IS this exceptional nation, people, and society with the bestest ever approach to government and democracy ... which is so fantastic it needs to be spread across the globe - by force when necessary ..., or you can't trust america. Pick one.

America and the federal government are not one in the same... Dumbass

 

[2aguy]

Guy, go back and get your check from Frothy Wayne, but sane people don't want to hear your crap.

We have 33,000 gun deaths a year in this country. Only 200 of them are ruled justifiable uses of force by a civilian. That should tell you everything right there.

(They also found about 400 cases a year of justifiable shooting by cops, but you practically have to get film of a cop shooting someone in the back to get a criminally indictment. )

You have to lie...why? Because the numbers don't support anything you say....

You have to group all gun deaths into one number, otherwise the truth makes you look like an idiot...

Yes....let's look at the truth...

In 2013 there were over 320,000,000 million guns in private hands, in 2015...there were 357,000,000 million guns in private hands...

Accidental gun deaths:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf


Accidental gun deaths 2013......505

Accidental gun deaths over time....

Then by year accidental gun deaths going down according to CDC final statistics table 10 from 2010-2013...

2010...606
2011...591
2012...548
2013...505
2014... 586 (We went from 320,000,000 guns in 2013....to 357,000,000 guns in 2016....the rate of increase means there were 81 accidental gun deaths to go with an increase of 37,000,000 new guns in private hands....)


Accidental gun deaths of children under 14 in 2013....in a country with 74.2 million children in 2010...

Under 1 year old: 3

1-4 years old: 27

5-14 years old: 39

Total: 69 ( in a country of 320 million people)

Total 2014.... 48


-------------------


Gun suicide vs. non gun suicide: 2013......

Gun Suicide: 21,175

Non gun suicide: 19,974

Gun suicide in 2014..... 21,334 (WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports)

non gun suicide in 2014...21,359 (WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports)
-----------

Gun murder:

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8 and

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

Federal Bureau of Investigation - Uniform Crime Reports - 2000

gun murder rate 1997 -2000


1997..... 10,729
1998..... 9,257
1999..... 8,480
2000..... 8,493
2001..... 8,719
2002... 9,369
2003.... 9,638
2004..... 9,385
2005.... 10,158
2006.... 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,124

--------

Self defense with a gun:

Self defense with a gun......40 years of actual research...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses each year....bill clinton's Department of Justice self defense gun study and obama's CDC examination of all gun research on gun self defense studies up to 2013... are highlighted


GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[2aguy]

...We have 33,000 gun deaths a year in this country. Only 200 of them are ruled justifiable uses of force by a civilian. That should tell you everything right there.... )

How many are murders and how many are suicides?

He can't separate that number....because gun murder in 2014 was only 8,124...in a country with over 357,000,000 million guns in private hands.....and of those 8,124 gun murders (Data from FBI table 8, expanded homicide...) 90% of those committing the murder have felonies......that would mean only 812 gun murders were committed by people who were not actual felons at the time of the murder......

And of those.....killers like the Colorado Abortion clinic shooter.....had long histories of violence and even committed rape before the shooting...but the woman refused to testify against him because she was afraid....

So no matter how hard joe tries to portray normal gun owners as barely controlled sociopaths who need to have guns banned in order to keep them from murdering people over traffic stops....the reality is people who use guns to commit murder are not normal....they have long histories of crime and violence....

And the rest are suicides or accidents.......

586 accidental gun deaths in 2014......again in a country with 357,000,000 guns in private hands.

And in 2013....... 21,175 suicides by gun.....and 19,974 non gun suicides........

In 2014...suicides by gun..21,334

In 2014...non gun suicides...21,359

So no matter how you slice it...guns are not an issue.......

And as the gun self defense research shows....Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack about 1,500,000 times a year...according to bill clinton and his Department of Justice study....

Which means that with only about 238 shooting deaths by normal people of actual criminals during crimal attack.....normal people are incredibly, amazingly responsible and reluctant to actually shoot other human beings...even when they are violent criminals...

Again showing joe to be wrong.....

 

[2aguy]

...We have 33,000 gun deaths a year in this country. Only 200 of them are ruled justifiable uses of force by a civilian. That should tell you everything right there.... )

How many are murders and how many are suicides?

And here is a look at types of accidental death and where guns fit in.......

Broker Version 9.4

Broker Version 9.4

2014........

so, out of 357,000,000 million guns in private hands...there was a grand total of 586 accidental gun deaths.....

and

accidental poisoning deaths......42,032

accidental car deaths.................33,736

accidental falling deaths..............31,959

accidental drowning deaths..........3,406

accidental machinery deaths............605

Accidental gun deaths.......................586



586 accidental gun deaths...of which 48 were children...with 74.2 million children in the country...........down from 69 accidental child gun deaths in 2013..........

non fatal car accident number 2014.......2,412,109 million

non fatal gun accident injuries.....

WISQARS Nonfatal Injury Reports
2014.......15,928
2013.......16,864
2012.......17,362
2011.......14,675
2010.......14,161
2009.......18,610
2008.......17,215
2007.......15,698
2006.......14,678
2005.......15,388
2004.......16,555
2003.......18,941
2002.......17,579
2001.......17,696
2000.......23,237

 

[2aguy]

...We have 33,000 gun deaths a year in this country. Only 200 of them are ruled justifiable uses of force by a civilian. That should tell you everything right there.... )

How many are murders and how many are suicides?

Also....joe knows that countries that have strict gun control for normal citizens...but cops and criminals still can get guns....like Japan, South Korea, and China....have higher suicide rates than we do...they don't use guns for suicide......and even France, Finland and Poland have higher suicide rates than we do....

But if he acknowledged that he would have to admit that guns are not the issue in suicide......

And from Wiqars....non gun suicide totals are higher in 2014 than gun suicides in this country....another thing joe can't admit.....

 

[Divine Wind]

...We have 33,000 gun deaths a year in this country. Only 200 of them are ruled justifiable uses of force by a civilian. That should tell you everything right there.... )

How many are murders and how many are suicides?

He can't separate that number....because gun murder in 2014 was only 8,124...in a country with over 357,000,000 million guns in private hands.....and of those 8,124 gun murders (Data from FBI table 8, expanded homicide...) 90% of those committing the murder have felonies......that would mean only 812 gun murders were committed by people who were not actual felons at the time of the murder......

And of those.....killers like the Colorado Abortion clinic shooter.....had long histories of violence and even committed rape before the shooting...but the woman refused to testify against him because she was afraid....

So no matter how hard joe tries to portray normal gun owners as barely controlled sociopaths who need to have guns banned in order to keep them from murdering people over traffic stops....the reality is people who use guns to commit murder are not normal....they have long histories of crime and violence....

And the rest are suicides or accidents.......

586 accidental gun deaths in 2014......again in a country with 357,000,000 guns in private hands.

And in 2013....... 21,175 suicides by gun.....and 19,974 non gun suicides........

In 2014...suicides by gun..21,334

In 2014...non gun suicides...21,359

So no matter how you slice it...guns are not an issue.......

And as the gun self defense research shows....Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack about 1,500,000 times a year...according to bill clinton and his Department of Justice study....

Which means that with only about 238 shooting deaths by normal people of actual criminals during crimal attack.....normal people are incredibly, amazingly responsible and reluctant to actually shoot other human beings...even when they are violent criminals...

Again showing joe to be wrong.....

Agreed, which is the inherent dishonesty many anti-gunners display in pushing their agenda. They don't give a shit about preventable deaths. They only care in pushing an agenda to ban or limit guns. They'll ignore many facts and conflate others, such as the mixing of suicides and accidents with murders to fluff up the numbers of "gun deaths".

 

[Divine Wind]

The problem with the Nanny state, anti-Constitutional, anti-gun movement is they don't give a shit about reducing preventable deaths. They only care about limiting or banning guns.

 

[Fenton Lum]

....Either america IS this exceptional nation, people, and society with the bestest ever approach to government and democracy ... which is so fantastic it needs to be spread across the globe - by force when necessary ..., or you can't trust america. Pick one.

Dichotomous thinking can be a sign of mental illness or simply immaturity.

What is Dichotomous Thinking's Link to Borderline Personality?
Dichotomous thinking, also known as "black or white thinking," is a symptom of many mental illnesses, including borderline personality disorder (BPD). If you have BPD and dichotomous thinking is a struggle for you, you may see only the extremes of things, never the middle. Every thought or situation breaks down to black or white, good or bad and all or nothing.

This extreme thinking can cause serious overreactions or responses with significant consequences.

Take a day or two if you need to:

What causes the inability to make a decision?
Procrastination has always been linked with indecision. One of the reasons for the inability to make a decision is the presence ofprocrastination tendencies. The first thing you should do in order to become a fast decision maker is to Deal with procrastination if it was present.

Another reason for the inability to make a decision is the lack of information. Some people just remain still whenever they are faced with something that they don't understand. Without enough information making a decision can be impossible. If you want to become a fast decision maker then make sure that you collect all the information you can instead of just thinking about the ones you have.

If you can sleep on it then do it. The subconscious doesn't processes information right away but it needs some time to insert the new information within its mental framework. Waiting for a day or two before making a decision will certainly help you come up with a better one.
inability to make a decision | 2KnowMySelf

 

[Fenton Lum]

...We have 33,000 gun deaths a year in this country. Only 200 of them are ruled justifiable uses of force by a civilian. That should tell you everything right there.... )

How many are murders and how many are suicides?

He can't separate that number....because gun murder in 2014 was only 8,124...in a country with over 357,000,000 million guns in private hands.....and of those 8,124 gun murders (Data from FBI table 8, expanded homicide...) 90% of those committing the murder have felonies......that would mean only 812 gun murders were committed by people who were not actual felons at the time of the murder......

And of those.....killers like the Colorado Abortion clinic shooter.....had long histories of violence and even committed rape before the shooting...but the woman refused to testify against him because she was afraid....

So no matter how hard joe tries to portray normal gun owners as barely controlled sociopaths who need to have guns banned in order to keep them from murdering people over traffic stops....the reality is people who use guns to commit murder are not normal....they have long histories of crime and violence....

And the rest are suicides or accidents.......

586 accidental gun deaths in 2014......again in a country with 357,000,000 guns in private hands.

And in 2013....... 21,175 suicides by gun.....and 19,974 non gun suicides........

In 2014...suicides by gun..21,334

In 2014...non gun suicides...21,359

So no matter how you slice it...guns are not an issue.......

And as the gun self defense research shows....Americans use guns to stop violent criminal attack about 1,500,000 times a year...according to bill clinton and his Department of Justice study....

Which means that with only about 238 shooting deaths by normal people of actual criminals during crimal attack.....normal people are incredibly, amazingly responsible and reluctant to actually shoot other human beings...even when they are violent criminals...

Again showing joe to be wrong.....

Agreed, which is the inherent dishonesty many anti-gunners display in pushing their agenda. They don't give a shit about preventable deaths. They only care in pushing an agenda to ban or limit guns. They'll ignore many facts and conflate others, such as the mixing of suicides and accidents with murders to fluff up the numbers of "gun deaths".

"They'll ignore many facts and conflate others, ...."

 

[Fenton Lum]

Good luck... Lol

It's a lengthy process. One problem with "modern" Americans is impatience. Too many are enamored with "instant gratification".

Last year was the 200th anniversary of the end of the War of 1812. When kids are taught history they read about the events leading up to the revolution, the Revolution, the aftermath including writing and ratifying the Constitution, Louis & Clark, and the War of 1812. Most can read it in their texts in a few hours.

I remember the Bicentennial. Ford was President in 1976. I was a junior in college. Last year I was 59. 1976 to 2015 was a lifetime. It was no different for our Founders. Those young men and women who fought in the Revolution were old grandparents when the War of 1812 was fought. Change took time then and it takes time now. It's a constant push and most of us will never see the fruits of our labors.

An ancient Greek proverb is 'Society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.'

A quote from "Galaxy Quest" is "Never give up, never surrender!"

Both work for me.

I like - never trust the government to do the right thing, for its not your friend...

Perhaps not when it's been taken over by corporate power and then that corporate power takes over the airways and tells you that you and your elected representatives (which they now own) are the enemy. Some folks are going to have to make a decision. Either america IS this exceptional nation, people, and society with the bestest ever approach to government and democracy ... which is so fantastic it needs to be spread across the globe - by force when necessary ..., or you can't trust america. Pick one.

America and the federal government are not one in the same... Dumbass

Oh yeah, forgot, they have nothing to do with one another.

 

[Rustic]

Good luck... Lol

It's a lengthy process. One problem with "modern" Americans is impatience. Too many are enamored with "instant gratification".

Last year was the 200th anniversary of the end of the War of 1812. When kids are taught history they read about the events leading up to the revolution, the Revolution, the aftermath including writing and ratifying the Constitution, Louis & Clark, and the War of 1812. Most can read it in their texts in a few hours.

I remember the Bicentennial. Ford was President in 1976. I was a junior in college. Last year I was 59. 1976 to 2015 was a lifetime. It was no different for our Founders. Those young men and women who fought in the Revolution were old grandparents when the War of 1812 was fought. Change took time then and it takes time now. It's a constant push and most of us will never see the fruits of our labors.

An ancient Greek proverb is 'Society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.'

A quote from "Galaxy Quest" is "Never give up, never surrender!"

Both work for me.

I like - never trust the government to do the right thing, for its not your friend...

Perhaps not when it's been taken over by corporate power and then that corporate power takes over the airways and tells you that you and your elected representatives (which they now own) are the enemy. Some folks are going to have to make a decision. Either america IS this exceptional nation, people, and society with the bestest ever approach to government and democracy ... which is so fantastic it needs to be spread across the globe - by force when necessary ..., or you can't trust america. Pick one.

America and the federal government are not one in the same... Dumbass

Oh yeah, forgot, they have nothing to do with one another.

Shame on you...

 

[Fenton Lum]

It's a lengthy process. One problem with "modern" Americans is impatience. Too many are enamored with "instant gratification".

Last year was the 200th anniversary of the end of the War of 1812. When kids are taught history they read about the events leading up to the revolution, the Revolution, the aftermath including writing and ratifying the Constitution, Louis & Clark, and the War of 1812. Most can read it in their texts in a few hours.

I remember the Bicentennial. Ford was President in 1976. I was a junior in college. Last year I was 59. 1976 to 2015 was a lifetime. It was no different for our Founders. Those young men and women who fought in the Revolution were old grandparents when the War of 1812 was fought. Change took time then and it takes time now. It's a constant push and most of us will never see the fruits of our labors.

An ancient Greek proverb is 'Society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.'

A quote from "Galaxy Quest" is "Never give up, never surrender!"

Both work for me.

I like - never trust the government to do the right thing, for its not your friend...

Perhaps not when it's been taken over by corporate power and then that corporate power takes over the airways and tells you that you and your elected representatives (which they now own) are the enemy. Some folks are going to have to make a decision. Either america IS this exceptional nation, people, and society with the bestest ever approach to government and democracy ... which is so fantastic it needs to be spread across the globe - by force when necessary ..., or you can't trust america. Pick one.

America and the federal government are not one in the same... Dumbass

Oh yeah, forgot, they have nothing to do with one another.

Shame on you...

You're better at comparmentalization than Bill Clinton.

 

[JoeB131]

How many are murders and how many are suicides?

Are the suicides somehow less dead than the murders?

 

[2aguy]

How many are murders and how many are suicides?

Are the suicides somehow less dead than the murders?

No moron, but the gun isn't the issue...since Japan, China, South Korea only allow criminals and cops to have guns and their suicide rate is higher than ours...as is the rate in France, Poland, Finland and all sorts of other countries...

And last year...non gun suicides outnumbered gun suicides asshole........

 

[JoeB131]

No moron, but the gun isn't the issue...since Japan, China, South Korea only allow criminals and cops to have guns and their suicide rate is higher than ours...as is the rate in France, Poland, Finland and all sorts of other countries...

And last year...non gun suicides outnumbered gun suicides asshole........

Ban guns, the suicide rate will go down.

Sounds like a great idea to me.

Of course, I just want to ban guns to piss people like you off... but I'll take lower death rates.

 

[2aguy]

No moron, but the gun isn't the issue...since Japan, China, South Korea only allow criminals and cops to have guns and their suicide rate is higher than ours...as is the rate in France, Poland, Finland and all sorts of other countries...

And last year...non gun suicides outnumbered gun suicides asshole........

Ban guns, the suicide rate will go down.

Sounds like a great idea to me.

Of course, I just want to ban guns to piss people like you off... but I'll take lower death rates.

Moron.....they banned guns in China, South Korea, and Japan....and they have higher suicide rates than we do.......how stupid are you....you keep seeing this fact and yet you pretend it doesn't exist....and those aren't the only countries with extreme gun control and higher suicide rates than us.....

And again...last year our non gun suicide rate was higher than our gun suicide rate.....

 

[2aguy]

No moron, but the gun isn't the issue...since Japan, China, South Korea only allow criminals and cops to have guns and their suicide rate is higher than ours...as is the rate in France, Poland, Finland and all sorts of other countries...

And last year...non gun suicides outnumbered gun suicides asshole........

Ban guns, the suicide rate will go down.

Sounds like a great idea to me.

Of course, I just want to ban guns to piss people like you off... but I'll take lower death rates.

here you go stupid......ignore these countries too....

World suicide rates by country

World suicide rates by country

Per 100,000


Hungary ... 21.0
Belgium .... 18.4
Finland... 16.5
Poland... 13.8
Austria... 13.8
Czech Republic... 12.7
New Zealand.... 11.9
Denmark... 11.3
Sweden..............11.1
Norway...............10.9
Iceland................10.4
Germany.............10.3
Canada...............10.2

United States.......10.1

And another list....
Here Are The Countries With The Worst Suicide Rates

 

[2aguy]

No moron, but the gun isn't the issue...since Japan, China, South Korea only allow criminals and cops to have guns and their suicide rate is higher than ours...as is the rate in France, Poland, Finland and all sorts of other countries...

And last year...non gun suicides outnumbered gun suicides asshole........

Ban guns, the suicide rate will go down.

Sounds like a great idea to me.

Of course, I just want to ban guns to piss people like you off... but I'll take lower death rates.

Here you go stupid......the CDC data on suicide, 2013 and 2014.........

Gun suicide vs. non gun suicide:

2013:

Gun Suicide: 21,175

Non gun suicide: 19,974

2014:

Gun suicide in 2014..... 21,334 (WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports)

non gun suicide in 2014...21,359 (WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports)