The way to keep burkini's off the beaches

[gtopa1]

...and why these sharia law people are going to the beach anyway?

it's not in the Koran.

STOP POLLUTING FRENCH BEACHES YOU SCUM!

That comment is offensive!!!

Greg

More offensive is that these unwanted hordes come over to the West and try to change our culture when they know we hate it and we know that if we go over there and wear a bikini they might throw us in jail and deport us!

What is also offensive and stupid is, how many naive Westerners are so quick to call everything which makes sense, offensive!

Er: I asked why it was offensive to wear a burkini? I couldn't give a damn about what anyone wears quite frankly.

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

Below is listed signs and abuser tricks related to domestic violence. How many of these relate to normal Islam....

We can easily trace every single one of these to the way Islam wants their women treated.

I got these from this site. Abuser tricks and warning signs of domestic abuse. - New Hope for Women

Jealousy
At the start of the relationship, an abuser will equate jealously with love. The abuser will question the victim about who the victim talks to, accuse the victim of flirting, or become jealous of time spent with others. The abuser may call the victim frequently during the day, drop by unexpectedly, refuse to let the victim work, check the car mileage, or ask friends to watch the victim.

Controlling behavior
In the beginning an abuser will attribute controlling behavior to concern for the victim (for example, the victim's safety or decision-making skills). As this behavior progresses the situation will worsen, and the abuser may assume all control of finances or prevent the victim from coming and going freely.

Quick involvement
A victim often has known or dated the abuser for a brief period of time before getting engaged or living together. The abuser will pressure the victim to commit to the relationship. A victim may be made to feel guilty for wanting to slow the pace or end the relationship.

Unrealistic expectations
An abuser expects the victim to meet all of the abuser's needs, to take care of everything emotionally and domestically.

Isolation
An abuser will attempt to isolate the victim by severing the victim's ties to outside support and resources. The batterer will accuse the victim's friends and family of being "trouble makers." The abuser may block the victim's access to use of a vehicle, work, or telephone service in the home.

Blames others for problems
An abuser will blame others for all problems or for the abuser's own shortcomings. Someone is always out to get the abuser or is an obstacle to the abuser's achievements. The victim or potential victim will be blamed for almost anything.

Blames others for feelings
An abuser will use feelings to manipulate the victim. Common phrases to look for: "You're hurting me by not doing what I want." "You control how I feel."

Hypersensitivity
An abusive person is easily insulted, perceiving the slightest setbacks as personal attacks.

Cruelty to animals or children
This is a person who punishes animals brutally or is insensitive to their pain. The abuser may expect children to perform beyond their capability (for example whipping a two-year-old for wetting a diaper or teasing children or siblings until they cry).

"Playful" use of force in sex
This behavior includes restraining partners against their will during sex, acting out fantasies in which the partner is helpless, initiating sex when the partner is asleep, or demanding sex when the partner is ill or tired. The abuser may show little concern for his partner's wishes and will use sulking and anger to manipulate compliance.

Verbal abuse
This behavior involves saying things that are intended to be cruel and hurtful, cursing or degrading the victim, or putting down the victim's accomplishments.

Rigid sex roles
The victim, almost always a woman, will be expected to serve. For instance, a male abuser will see women as inferior to men, responsible for menial tasks, stupid, and unable to be a whole person without a relationship.

Dual personality "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde"
Explosive behavior and moodiness, which can shift quickly to congeniality, are typical of people who beat their partners.

Past battering
An abuser will beat any partner if the individual is involved with the abuser long enough for the cycle of abuse to begin. Circumstances do not make a person an abusive personality.

Threats of violence
This consists of any threat of physical force meant to control the partner. Most people do not threaten their mates but an abuser will excuse this behavior by claiming "everyone talks like that."

Breaking or striking objects
This behavior is used as punishment (breaking sentimental possessions) or to terrorize the victim into submission.

Any force during an argument
This may involve an abuser holding down his the victim, physically restraining the victim from leaving, or pushing or shoving. Holding someoneback in order to make demands, such as "You will listen to me!" is also a show of force.

None of the above occur in "normal Islam" relationships. There is a huge erroneous assumption being made based on the thought that all marriages involving "traditional" women's roles constitute abuse.

If a woman chooses to be a homemaker - is she abused?

Don't confuse a westernized Muslim for one of the crazies. Majority of the westernized ones don't force this nonsense on their women.

Europe has a crazy Muslim problem.

Not banned on the track that I know of.

Greg

 

[Esmeralda]

I find it odd that there are those who say a woman who wears sluttish clothing contributes to her own rape but that something as sexless as a burkini is deemed improper? Sorry; I don't see any reason to ban the burkini. In fact in a land with the highest melanoma rate in the world I would find them downright sensible!!

Greg

In terms of health issues, France doesn't have the rate of melanoma Australia does, nowhere in Europe does. However, vit D deficiency, which eventually results in all sorts of health problems, including osteoporosis and heart disease, is an issue for people who swathe themselves from head to toe even in the summer months. You have to expose quite a bit of skin to make vit D.

It is true: vitamin D deficiency is a serious issue for Muslim women who 'cover.' Over exposure to the sun is a serious issue for women in the West who spend a lot of time in the sun exposing a lot of skin. Western women can wear sunscreen. Islamic women have to get medical treatment for their lack of vitamin D.

 

[gtopa1]

So you have no problems when the victims of DV return home to their abusers?

You don't consider the years of mental punishment they have experienced that is clouding their judgement?

Why the assumption that all Muslim women are abused? That's ridiculous. Just for a bit of perspective....

Modest Swimwear - Custom sized, made to order swimsuits by CoverUpForChrist
Modest swimwear for ladies & girls | Aqua Modesta
Modest Swimwear for Girls, Teens & Women by Sea Secret

Are you going to ban all of these people from enjoying the beach? Are they all abused?

Does anyone see how utterly ridiculous this is? A supposedly free society is suddenly mandating what a woman can wear! How is that for oppression?

None of those you posted cover up their heads or below their knees.

Which is a perfect example that there is conservative alternatives already on the market for the Muslims

Is that the criteria you'd use to kick women off the beach?
They mustn't cover their heads or lower legs?
Just trying to get a handle on the rules here.

Does it apply to men as well?

Its interesting that you are so hell bent on making sure these women can be forced to be covered head to toe.

I would rather we dial it back to normal western standards and if they decide to go modest then there are plenty of options.

No, I disagree with you telling them that the must dress a certain way.
They should be able to dress any way they like...why do you want to oppress them?

I think that they're trying to liberate them and I accept that. But many of these people are in transition. I suggest that we just be patient. Burkinis are only a recent invention.

Greg

 

[idb]

No, I disagree with you telling them that the must dress a certain way.
They should be able to dress any way they like...why do you want to oppress them?

Oh so we should respect others religious choices now?

Where were you in the gay wedding cake thread?

It has nothing to do with religious choices...it's freedom of choice choices.
Why's that so hard to understand?

So the burqa isn't a religious garmet? They just enjoy dressing up as black ghosts all the time?

Gotcha lol

I never said that.
Sheesh...you really can't follow an argument can you?
It may be religious dress but it's her choice to wear it.
It would also be her choice to wear a crucifix around her neck or a yarmulke...they're both religious items.

Yes but a cross isn't covering their entire body.

I realize this is probably something neat for you because it feels exotic and different so you assume it must be good. What's odd is that you are not taking into account what wearing these items mean. And the history behind them.

Sometimes the positives are outweighed by the negatives. And no matter what positives some thing brings you would never accept the negatives.

"Yes but..."

 

[StLucieBengal]

Oh so we should respect others religious choices now?

Where were you in the gay wedding cake thread?

It has nothing to do with religious choices...it's freedom of choice choices.
Why's that so hard to understand?

So the burqa isn't a religious garmet? They just enjoy dressing up as black ghosts all the time?

Gotcha lol

I never said that.
Sheesh...you really can't follow an argument can you?
It may be religious dress but it's her choice to wear it.
It would also be her choice to wear a crucifix around her neck or a yarmulke...they're both religious items.

Yes but a cross isn't covering their entire body.

I realize this is probably something neat for you because it feels exotic and different so you assume it must be good. What's odd is that you are not taking into account what wearing these items mean. And the history behind them.

Sometimes the positives are outweighed by the negatives. And no matter what positives some thing brings you would never accept the negatives.

"Yes but..."

There will always be a but when you make ridiculous comparisons.

Try comparing apples to apples just once in this thread.

 

[gtopa1]

So you have no problems when the victims of DV return home to their abusers?

You don't consider the years of mental punishment they have experienced that is clouding their judgement?

Why the assumption that all Muslim women are abused? That's ridiculous. Just for a bit of perspective....

Modest Swimwear - Custom sized, made to order swimsuits by CoverUpForChrist
Modest swimwear for ladies & girls | Aqua Modesta
Modest Swimwear for Girls, Teens & Women by Sea Secret

Are you going to ban all of these people from enjoying the beach? Are they all abused?

Does anyone see how utterly ridiculous this is? A supposedly free society is suddenly mandating what a woman can wear! How is that for oppression?

None of those you posted cover up their heads or below their knees.

Which is a perfect example that there is conservative alternatives already on the market for the Muslims

Is that the criteria you'd use to kick women off the beach?
They mustn't cover their heads or lower legs?
Just trying to get a handle on the rules here.

Does it apply to men as well?

Its interesting that you are so hell bent on making sure these women can be forced to be covered head to toe.

I would rather we dial it back to normal western standards and if they decide to go modest then there are plenty of options.

No, I disagree with you telling them that the must dress a certain way.
They should be able to dress any way they like...why do you want to oppress them?

I think that they're trying to liberate them and I accept that. But many of these people are in transition. I suggest that we just be patient. Burkinis are only a recent invention.

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

Religions "ordain" many things. Is the fact that Orthodox Jewish women keep their bodies and hair covered a "powerful symbol of their brutal 7th century religion" (though, it's much older than that)...or...is it free choice?

I'm sorry you do not like seeing women exercising their freedom of choice in a supposedly free western country.

How can you possibly compare Judaism to Islam?

Easy. They're both religions. Complex religions, with a lot of rules and laws to follow. In their more conservative sects, women occupy quite traditional roles. Judaism is the parent of Islam and Christianity.

Since when are we at war with Judaism?

Since when are we at war with Islam? Far as I know, we, along with many others including Muslim countries are at war with extremists.

As mentioned fundamental Islam is the religion that ordains jihad against the non believers by any means which at the moment means terrorism.

Which has nothing to do with women's freedom to dress as they choose.

So why should we and the French people not be upset when these Islamic symbols are constantly being forced upon us.

Who forced you to wear a burkini?

It's got nothing to do at all with women's freedom of choice. It all about NOT SUBMITTING TO ISLAM.

So...let's get this straight. You think it's ok to oppress women by forcing them to dress a certain way?

It's quite surprising that feminists don't acknowledge how brutally women are treated in Islam.

Real feminists recognize that women are treated brutally in many cultures, including traditional Islamic cultures, but removing from women their freedom to choose is just another form of subjugation even though you are convinced it's liberation.

We are not discussing feminist rights but about trying to stop the spread of this alien culture whose purpose is to take over the host country like a virus.

So...you are saying that forcing women to dress the way YOU think is acceptable is somehow better than other countries forcing women to dress the way THEY think is acceptable?

Geez. So much for freedom.

There is only one religion who is trying to annihilate everyone who does not believe in their God or attempts to force their religious laws down the throats of the society they choose to enter.

That is the difference.

Unfortunately that is not accurate. But keep trying.

And while you're at it, enlighten us as to why it's somehow progressive to remove free choice from women.

Right....more like a nightmare.

Burkinis caused 9/11??

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

How do you identify the 'crazies' and chase them off the beach?

The ones oppressing their women

Was the woman in the photos being made to remove her clothing in France oppressed?

Post the photo.

Btw it's hilarious to see you try the petty Alinsky tactics. It just shows that you really have nothing to offer. Coyote at least can discuss this topic and not waste our time with Alinsky tactic after tactic

French police make woman remove clothing on Nice beach following burkini ban

'Alinsky tactics'?

There is zero reason for that lady to be on the beach. What is she there for? To sweat? Nothing like a fat sweaty Muslim woman.


.

Fat English women at the beach??

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

Yes but once you ok that it's only a matter of time until they expand their weirdness.

Burkinis are the LEAST of our problems, I think.

They aren't a major thing but We volunteer a lot time helping victims of domestic violence. So I know when someone is being dominated and how hard it is to break the mental chains and spell people can be under.

I see a lot of parallels between women of Islam and DV victims.

Yes, well some women may just be modest about their bodies. My friend had big boobs and hated how men stared at them. She wore a T-shirt and shorts whenever she went to the beach.

Being modest isn't a problem at all.

The photos coyote posted trying to be pro burka. They are just modest where we can still see face, neck, head. And most of time we can see below the knees. Other than the surfboard girl.

If Muslims are that worried then why don't just wear a full wetsuit?

Who cares? If they try to make me wear one, then we can talk.

I don't want to wear no steeenking burkini!!!!

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

I find it odd that there are those who say a woman who wears sluttish clothing contributes to her own rape but that something as sexless as a burkini is deemed improper? Sorry; I don't see any reason to ban the burkini. In fact in a land with the highest melanoma rate in the world I would find them downright sensible!!

Greg

In terms of health issues, France doesn't have the rate of melanoma Australia does, nowhere in Europe does. However, vit D deficiency, which eventually results in all sorts of health problems, including osteoporosis and heart disease, is an issue for people who swathe themselves from head to toe even in the summer months. You have to expose quite a bit of skin to make vit D.

It is true: vitamin D deficiency is a serious issue for Muslim women who 'cover.' Over exposure to the sun is a serious issue for women in the West who spend a lot of time in the sun exposing a lot of skin. Western women can wear sunscreen. Islamic women have to get medical treatment for their lack of vitamin D.

Why not just take Vitamin D tabs like I do; I hate too much sun.

Greg

 

[Mindful]

How about a Boxini?

For the Islamic thinking beach babe.

 

[gtopa1]

How about a Boxini?

For the Islamic thinking beach babe.

Has to be a Ford EU invention!!!

Ya know who I mean!!!

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

Artistic even......

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

Meanwhile, the bikini was not unknown among the ancients....Sicily circa 200AD.

Greg

 

[Esmeralda]

I find it odd that there are those who say a woman who wears sluttish clothing contributes to her own rape but that something as sexless as a burkini is deemed improper? Sorry; I don't see any reason to ban the burkini. In fact in a land with the highest melanoma rate in the world I would find them downright sensible!!

Greg

In terms of health issues, France doesn't have the rate of melanoma Australia does, nowhere in Europe does. However, vit D deficiency, which eventually results in all sorts of health problems, including osteoporosis and heart disease, is an issue for people who swathe themselves from head to toe even in the summer months. You have to expose quite a bit of skin to make vit D.

It is true: vitamin D deficiency is a serious issue for Muslim women who 'cover.' Over exposure to the sun is a serious issue for women in the West who spend a lot of time in the sun exposing a lot of skin. Western women can wear sunscreen. Islamic women have to get medical treatment for their lack of vitamin D.

Why not just take Vitamin D tabs like I do; I hate too much sun.

Greg

I don't know. I think if you almost totally lack sun exposure, just taking vitamins may not be enough. Women who are very strict about covering totally cover when they are outside, always. So they really don't get any sun, and they have health problems because of it.

"There is concern among the medical community about some of the health effects of the extreme styles of Islamic dress, with the main issues arising from Vitamin D deficiency due to lack skin exposed to UV light. It has been established by credible scientific evidence that almost all women who observe the full hijab are chronically deficient in Vitamin D.[2] Vitamin D is a vital nutrient and deficiency of this kind can lead to various diseases."

"Due to this reason, serious vitamin D deficiency is wide-spread in many Muslim majority countries. A study performed by doctors at King Fahd University Hospital in Saudi Arabia, showed that out of all 52 women tested, all had seriously deficient levels of Vitamin D and were at risk of many serious health problems, despite living in one of the sunniest places on the planet.[10] Furthermore, in a study undertaken in Jordan, 83.3% of women wearing the most covering style of Islamic dresses were found to be deficient in summer time. This is rather striking when compared to the fact only 18.2% of Jordanian men studied were found to be deficient.[11] Jordan, like Saudi Arabia, holds the distinction of being one of the sunniest places on the planet, so the effect of wearing the burqa on Vitamin D levels and health is profound."

Health Effects of Islamic Dress - WikiIslam

 

[gtopa1]

I find it odd that there are those who say a woman who wears sluttish clothing contributes to her own rape but that something as sexless as a burkini is deemed improper? Sorry; I don't see any reason to ban the burkini. In fact in a land with the highest melanoma rate in the world I would find them downright sensible!!

Greg

In terms of health issues, France doesn't have the rate of melanoma Australia does, nowhere in Europe does. However, vit D deficiency, which eventually results in all sorts of health problems, including osteoporosis and heart disease, is an issue for people who swathe themselves from head to toe even in the summer months. You have to expose quite a bit of skin to make vit D.

It is true: vitamin D deficiency is a serious issue for Muslim women who 'cover.' Over exposure to the sun is a serious issue for women in the West who spend a lot of time in the sun exposing a lot of skin. Western women can wear sunscreen. Islamic women have to get medical treatment for their lack of vitamin D.

Why not just take Vitamin D tabs like I do; I hate too much sun.

Greg

I don't know. I think if you almost totally lack sun exposure, just taking vitamins may not be enough. Women who are very strict about covering totally cover when they are outside, always. So they really don't get any sun, and they have health problems because of it.

"There is concern among the medical community about some of the health effects of the extreme styles of Islamic dress, with the main issues arising from Vitamin D deficiency due to lack skin exposed to UV light. It has been established by credible scientific evidence that almost all women who observe the full hijab are chronically deficient in Vitamin D.[2] Vitamin D is a vital nutrient and deficiency of this kind can lead to various diseases."

"Due to this reason, serious vitamin D deficiency is wide-spread in many Muslim majority countries. A study performed by doctors at King Fahd University Hospital in Saudi Arabia, showed that out of all 52 women tested, all had seriously deficient levels of Vitamin D and were at risk of many serious health problems, despite living in one of the sunniest places on the planet.[10] Furthermore, in a study undertaken in Jordan, 83.3% of women wearing the most covering style of Islamic dresses were found to be deficient in summer time. This is rather striking when compared to the fact only 18.2% of Jordanian men studied were found to be deficient.[11] Jordan, like Saudi Arabia, holds the distinction of being one of the sunniest places on the planet, so the effect of wearing the burqa on Vitamin D levels and health is profound."

Health Effects of Islamic Dress - WikiIslam

Thank you for that. I was VitD deficient myself but after a course of tabs I am good as gold. I don't know that the Lancet gives much cred to artificial VitD. I will look into it.

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

The prevalence of vitamin D deficiencies was 55.0% for covered and 20.0% for uncovered students. The vitamin D status was found to be statistically significant and had a negative correlation with the duration of Islamic dressing (P < .05, r = -0.334). We concluded that the vitamin D levels of young women are associated with clothing style, and the age at which a female begins wearing Muslim style clothing is related.

Clothing preference affects vitamin D status of young women. - PubMed - NCBI

Quite an interesting finding.

Greg

(PS: I am no great fan of WikiIslam).

 

[Esmeralda]

The prevalence of vitamin D deficiencies was 55.0% for covered and 20.0% for uncovered students. The vitamin D status was found to be statistically significant and had a negative correlation with the duration of Islamic dressing (P < .05, r = -0.334). We concluded that the vitamin D levels of young women are associated with clothing style, and the age at which a female begins wearing Muslim style clothing is related.

Clothing preference affects vitamin D status of young women. - PubMed - NCBI

Quite an interesting finding.

Greg

(PS: I am no great fan of WikiIslam).

I've never seen it (wiki Islam) before, just Googled the information I wanted. I've read about this problem before, in independent articles, not from wikiislam. I have lived in Islamic countries and know about the problem first hand. Have talked about this issue to Muslim women who don't cover; one of my best friends when I lived in Turkey is a Muslim. She talked about this problem and how it is a prevalent problem for Muslim women.

Depending on how religious and conservative your family is, covering is a personal choice. But, I think that the suggestion that it is somehow oppressive is correct. Women who come from families that are more modern minded and less fundamentalist about religion tend not to cover.

 

[Alex.]

How can you possibly compare Judaism to Islam?

Easy. They're both religions. Complex religions, with a lot of rules and laws to follow. In their more conservative sects, women occupy quite traditional roles. Judaism is the parent of Islam and Christianity.

Since when are we at war with Judaism?

Since when are we at war with Islam? Far as I know, we, along with many others including Muslim countries are at war with extremists.

As mentioned fundamental Islam is the religion that ordains jihad against the non believers by any means which at the moment means terrorism.

Which has nothing to do with women's freedom to dress as they choose.

So why should we and the French people not be upset when these Islamic symbols are constantly being forced upon us.

Who forced you to wear a burkini?

It's got nothing to do at all with women's freedom of choice. It all about NOT SUBMITTING TO ISLAM.

So...let's get this straight. You think it's ok to oppress women by forcing them to dress a certain way?

It's quite surprising that feminists don't acknowledge how brutally women are treated in Islam.

Real feminists recognize that women are treated brutally in many cultures, including traditional Islamic cultures, but removing from women their freedom to choose is just another form of subjugation even though you are convinced it's liberation.

We are not discussing feminist rights but about trying to stop the spread of this alien culture whose purpose is to take over the host country like a virus.

So...you are saying that forcing women to dress the way YOU think is acceptable is somehow better than other countries forcing women to dress the way THEY think is acceptable?

Geez. So much for freedom.

There is only one religion who is trying to annihilate everyone who does not believe in their God or attempts to force their religious laws down the throats of the society they choose to enter.

That is the difference.

Unfortunately that is not accurate. But keep trying.

And while you're at it, enlighten us as to why it's somehow progressive to remove free choice from women.

Right....more like a nightmare.

Burkinis caused 9/11??

Greg