The way to keep burkini's off the beaches

[Coyote]

Why the assumption that all Muslim women are abused? That's ridiculous. Just for a bit of perspective....

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Are you going to ban all of these people from enjoying the beach? Are they all abused?

Does anyone see how utterly ridiculous this is? A supposedly free society is suddenly mandating what a woman can wear! How is that for oppression?

None of those you posted cover up their heads or below their knees.

Which is a perfect example that there is conservative alternatives already on the market for the Muslims

Ok, you are now adjusting the goalposts.

Covering to the knees is "ok", covering below the knees is not.

So, the poor Jewish girl on the right will get kicked off the beach...

We seem to have this rather arbritrary standard in which to only isolate Muslim women from comfortably swimming, but it looks like that standard will sadly affect other religious groups unless you move the goal posts some more.

Instead of the Saudi Arabian "Modesty Police" we'll have the western style "Imodesty Police". Wouldn't it simply be easier to allow women free choice....that's all we've ever wanted

You mean they girl in the swimwear designed to wear when you surf?

If the Muslims wanna dress that way then so be it. I just don't want to see this other nonsense.

If you want to live In the west then Take your 7th century bs elsewhere . Leave it at home or don't come.

So you you think this burkini ban is wrong then?

No. The Burkini ban is only temporary and was on direct result from the Muslims waging war on France. Maybe these supposed good Muslims can denounce the oppressive and violent nature of their religion.

Or maybe just go to the beach like a normal person and show everyone that Muslims can be just like anyone else. At the beach not dressed as a black ghost

The burkini ban is a direct result of xenophobic hatred and effects only innocent people trying to enjoy the beach. It removes freedom of choice from women in the guise of bringing freedom of choice.

 

[Coyote]

Oh for god's sakes, they're just people Skye. So WHAT if a woman wants to dress more modestly at the beach? Who CARES if they throw you into jail in Saudi Arabia for wearing a bikini. This isn't Saudi Arabia and maybe THAT is why those women are here and not THERE, trying to enjoy the beach. Ever thought of that?

They are bringing the Saudi Arabia lifestyle to the west. That's the problem . It wouldn't be a problem if they renounced their crazy behavior and went normal

Just have to add. Normal IS NOT thongs and speedos when your belly dunlops the speedo and the thong disappears into...enough said.

That's crazy behavior...no?

Never said normal was thongs.

But I can see every woman's head and face.

Like I said if they want to wear what that surfboard girl you posted before was wearing then that's fine. It's modest and we can still see who it is....

Normal is arbritrary and completely dependent on an individual culture's definition of "normal" and "modesty".

Normal standards usually regulate what is minimally acceptable - what needs to be covered. It's never been about "too much" with one acception: clothing issues that adversely affect public safety or one's ability to do certain jobs. Things involving public safety would be covering the face, masks, hoods etc. Things involving jobs could be clothing that affects the antiseptic quality of an operating room or could get caught in moving machinary.

None of this applies to what a person chooses to wear on the beach. In all of the burkini examples you can see her face. There is no need to see any more in order to recognize a person. This law is not about "freeing women" - it's about demeaning and humiliating Muslim women.

Normal is what we see at the beach in the west. That's western normal. When I say normal I am taking about this and you know that...

Playing word games is just a waste of time and should be beneath any adult trying to discuss this reasonably.

That's "your" normal.

But "normal" has NEVER imposed a dress code upon it's western citizens beyond minimal coverage. This is a new and bizarre "norm" you've suddenly decided to embrace.

People won't be able to wear wetsuits anymore.

 

[Coyote]

Ok, you are now adjusting the goalposts.

Covering to the knees is "ok", covering below the knees is not.

So, the poor Jewish girl on the right will get kicked off the beach...

We seem to have this rather arbritrary standard in which to only isolate Muslim women from comfortably swimming, but it looks like that standard will sadly affect other religious groups unless you move the goal posts some more.

Instead of the Saudi Arabian "Modesty Police" we'll have the western style "Imodesty Police". Wouldn't it simply be easier to allow women free choice....that's all we've ever wanted

You mean they girl in the swimwear designed to wear when you surf?

If the Muslims wanna dress that way then so be it. I just don't want to see this other nonsense.

If you want to live In the west then Take your 7th century bs elsewhere . Leave it at home or don't come.

So you you think this burkini ban is wrong then?

No. The Burkini ban is only temporary and was on direct result from the Muslims waging war on France. Maybe these supposed good Muslims can denounce the oppressive and violent nature of their religion.

Or maybe just go to the beach like a normal person and show everyone that Muslims can be just like anyone else. At the beach not dressed as a black ghost

Or they could segregate beaches, as in Tel Aviv.

Why waste prime beach property on a small group of extremists who oppress woman?

Should we give private beaches for all small groups of extremists? I bet the child predators would like to enjoy the beach with children. Maybe they can share one with the Muslims since they enjoy the same fare.

Which of those women are being oppressed? Have you talked to any?

You're last comment is pretty disgusting and unnecessary.

 

[Coyote]

Is that the criteria you'd use to kick women off the beach?
They mustn't cover their heads or lower legs?
Just trying to get a handle on the rules here.

Does it apply to men as well?

Its interesting that you are so hell bent on making sure these women can be forced to be covered head to toe.

I would rather we dial it back to normal western standards and if they decide to go modest then there are plenty of options.

No, I disagree with you telling them that the must dress a certain way.
They should be able to dress any way they like...why do you want to oppress them?

I think that they're trying to liberate them and I accept that. But many of these people are in transition. I suggest that we just be patient. Burkinis are only a recent invention.

Greg

Burkini's also allow women who might not otherwise get out to enjoy the beach, out and enjoying the beach. And what people don't realize, it's not just Muslim women who face this problem and it's not just Muslim women who are impacted by these sorts of decisions.

The challenges of exercising for some Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women

Showing up to the beach in a burqa is a joke.

Muslims don't need to go burqa. They can wear a wetsuit or an fat persons moo moo with an old lady hat

There is no need for the burqa or Burkini. It's just absurd and unnecessary.

I love how concerned you are for them to enjoy the beach .... You said it allows them to go out .

Why on earth are they not allowed to go out? Especially if they have free choice.... Or don't they...

Who is talking about burqa's? Ans: no one. Let's put that strawman to rest. A burqa completely covers the face, it's a different issue.

You omitted the important part - go out and enjoy the beach, while still maintaining their religious views on modesty. They can swim, wearing a garment that looks almost identical to a wetsuit, even with a hood. For some reason, you think they should NOT be allowed to do this. Not Muslims, and presumably not Jews unless you are going to shift the goalposts strategically.

Free choice? Who's barring whom from freely choosing what they wish to wear within minimal standards of coverage? (no naughty bits).

 

[StLucieBengal]

What American women used to stand for in regards to clothing....

Now what American women defend....

 

[Coyote]

The ones oppressing their women

Was the woman in the photos being made to remove her clothing in France oppressed?

Post the photo.

Btw it's hilarious to see you try the petty Alinsky tactics. It just shows that you really have nothing to offer. Coyote at least can discuss this topic and not waste our time with Alinsky tactic after tactic

French police make woman remove clothing on Nice beach following burkini ban

'Alinsky tactics'?

That's so wrong. That is abusive and humiliating to the woman. I hope she sues them.

What's humiliating to women is that other women are actually promoting for Muslim women to be oppressed further.

A woman, exercising her free choice, in a free country, to wear what she see's as suitable attire for the beach that meets standards of public decency is set upon by policemen who FORCE her to remove her clothing. Where is the oppression?

 

[Coyote]

What American women used to stand for in regards to clothing....

Now what American women defend....

Is a woman who chooses to be a housewife oppressed then? How about a woman who chooses to wear a long skirt?

 

[StLucieBengal]

Its interesting that you are so hell bent on making sure these women can be forced to be covered head to toe.

I would rather we dial it back to normal western standards and if they decide to go modest then there are plenty of options.

No, I disagree with you telling them that the must dress a certain way.
They should be able to dress any way they like...why do you want to oppress them?

I think that they're trying to liberate them and I accept that. But many of these people are in transition. I suggest that we just be patient. Burkinis are only a recent invention.

Greg

Burkini's also allow women who might not otherwise get out to enjoy the beach, out and enjoying the beach. And what people don't realize, it's not just Muslim women who face this problem and it's not just Muslim women who are impacted by these sorts of decisions.

The challenges of exercising for some Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women

Showing up to the beach in a burqa is a joke.

Muslims don't need to go burqa. They can wear a wetsuit or an fat persons moo moo with an old lady hat

There is no need for the burqa or Burkini. It's just absurd and unnecessary.

I love how concerned you are for them to enjoy the beach .... You said it allows them to go out .

Why on earth are they not allowed to go out? Especially if they have free choice.... Or don't they...

Who is talking about burqa's? Ans: no one. Let's put that strawman to rest. A burqa completely covers the face, it's a different issue.

You omitted the important part - go out and enjoy the beach, while still maintaining their religious views on modesty. They can swim, wearing a garment that looks almost identical to a wetsuit, even with a hood. For some reason, you think they should NOT be allowed to do this. Not Muslims, and presumably not Jews unless you are going to shift the goalposts strategically.

Free choice? Who's barring whom from freely choosing what they wish to wear within minimal standards of coverage? (no naughty bits).

You posted several modesty swimwear options. The Muslims can use those. Or wear a wetsuit

thet can't however they need to push for the burka.

They are a joke. And simply don't belong in the western world. They aren't ready for the west yet.

 

[Mindful]

Ok, you are now adjusting the goalposts.

Covering to the knees is "ok", covering below the knees is not.

So, the poor Jewish girl on the right will get kicked off the beach...

We seem to have this rather arbritrary standard in which to only isolate Muslim women from comfortably swimming, but it looks like that standard will sadly affect other religious groups unless you move the goal posts some more.

Instead of the Saudi Arabian "Modesty Police" we'll have the western style "Imodesty Police". Wouldn't it simply be easier to allow women free choice....that's all we've ever wanted

You mean they girl in the swimwear designed to wear when you surf?

If the Muslims wanna dress that way then so be it. I just don't want to see this other nonsense.

If you want to live In the west then Take your 7th century bs elsewhere . Leave it at home or don't come.

So you you think this burkini ban is wrong then?

No. The Burkini ban is only temporary and was on direct result from the Muslims waging war on France. Maybe these supposed good Muslims can denounce the oppressive and violent nature of their religion.

Or maybe just go to the beach like a normal person and show everyone that Muslims can be just like anyone else. At the beach not dressed as a black ghost

Or they could segregate beaches, as in Tel Aviv.

So Jews and Muslims, who wish to cover more parts of their body will have to go special beaches?

This gets weirder and weirder. Such a free country....for women....

How has this topic got on to Jews?

 

[StLucieBengal]

What American women used to stand for in regards to clothing....

Now what American women defend....

Is a woman who chooses to be a housewife oppressed then? How about a woman who chooses to wear a long skirt?

Is the housewife forced to not speak to any other men? Are they forced to dress up like a black ghost?

Can we see their face?

Funny how all these long skirt religious types have succeeded here for years simply by not hiding their faces or living in fear of not speaking to others.

Something has to give on the Muslims part. It's reasonable they let go of some of this nonsense to assimilate and fit into western society. If they are just going to segregate themselves and not mix into society then there is no point in them coming here.

 

[StLucieBengal]

You mean they girl in the swimwear designed to wear when you surf?

If the Muslims wanna dress that way then so be it. I just don't want to see this other nonsense.

If you want to live In the west then Take your 7th century bs elsewhere . Leave it at home or don't come.

So you you think this burkini ban is wrong then?

No. The Burkini ban is only temporary and was on direct result from the Muslims waging war on France. Maybe these supposed good Muslims can denounce the oppressive and violent nature of their religion.

Or maybe just go to the beach like a normal person and show everyone that Muslims can be just like anyone else. At the beach not dressed as a black ghost

Or they could segregate beaches, as in Tel Aviv.

So Jews and Muslims, who wish to cover more parts of their body will have to go special beaches?

This gets weirder and weirder. Such a free country....for women....

How has this topic got on to Jews?

Because coyote is looking for any group who wears modest clothing and came up with them to generate sympathy for the Muslims position.

 

[Coyote]

It is so strange that the people who claim to MOST advocate for women's freedoms are the one's LEAST advocating it in this thread.

Women's rights and liberation are about freedom to choose. You want to remove that freedom choice from certain categories of women.

Based on what? A fallacy - an assumption that all women who wish to dress modestly (as they see it) - are doing so because they are oppressed. Actually, let me rephrase that, not "all women who wish to dress modestly" but only Muslim women, since you manage to ignore or shift goal posts to accommodate others.

There is no rational argument for taking that choice away from them. Not minimal standards of decency, not oppression (since I've doubt anyone has talked with these women) and not safety. You have to argue that a wetsuit is ok, but a more feminine burkini is not - you have to argue that if it doesn't completely cover the lower legs it's ok but if it does it isn't. You have to argue that a moo-moo is ok, but a burkini is not (I doubt you can swim in a moo moo anyway). The contortions you go through to justify this ban approaches ridiculous.

So who is actually doing the oppressing here?

How dare you remove my choices of how to dress from me if I want to wear something that covers my body completely for ANY reason? Who's business is it anyway?

 

[StLucieBengal]

After all these years of feminists and protests to not be forced to wear particular clothes ...... Leftists are ready to roll that all back and let the someone else tell women what they have to wear.

Glad to see the last 50 years was a waste since now leftists are willing to let women's right go back to the 7th century.

Skin colour > all other things in the mind of a leftist.

 

[Coyote]

What American women used to stand for in regards to clothing....

Now what American women defend....

Is a woman who chooses to be a housewife oppressed then? How about a woman who chooses to wear a long skirt?

Is the housewife forced to not speak to any other men? Are they forced to dress up like a black ghost?

Is a Muslim woman forced not to speak to any other men?


Can we see their face?

Do you think this finalist in the Great British Bakeoff doesn't speak to other men? Is she dressed like a black ghost? Can you see her face? Shock! Horror! Nadiya, a Muslim woman, might win the Great British Bake Off

Funny how all these long skirt religious types have succeeded here for years simply by not hiding their faces or living in fear of not speaking to others.

Funny how the woman in the article doesn't look afraid at all.

Something has to give on the Muslims part. It's reasonable they let go of some of this nonsense to assimilate and fit into western society. If they are just going to segregate themselves and not mix into society then there is no point in them coming here.

The only thing that "has to give" when they immigrant to other countries is that they learn the culture of the country, they abide by the countries laws and they be good citizens. There is NO requirement that they must give up their religion - at least not in free western countries where religious freedom for ALL is valued.

 

[Coyote]

After all these years of feminists and protests to not be forced to wear particular clothes ...... Leftists are ready to roll that all back and let the someone else tell women what they have to wear.

Glad to see the last 50 years was a waste since now leftists are willing to let women's right go back to the 7th century.

Skin colour > all other things in the mind of a leftist.

Allowing women to choose what they wish to wear is going back to the 7th century in women's rights?

Come on...

 

[Coyote]

So you you think this burkini ban is wrong then?

No. The Burkini ban is only temporary and was on direct result from the Muslims waging war on France. Maybe these supposed good Muslims can denounce the oppressive and violent nature of their religion.

Or maybe just go to the beach like a normal person and show everyone that Muslims can be just like anyone else. At the beach not dressed as a black ghost

Or they could segregate beaches, as in Tel Aviv.

So Jews and Muslims, who wish to cover more parts of their body will have to go special beaches?

This gets weirder and weirder. Such a free country....for women....

How has this topic got on to Jews?

Because coyote is looking for any group who wears modest clothing and came up with them to generate sympathy for the Muslims position.

Because Muslims aren't the only demographic who follows conservative traditions of modesty for women. When you make these laws, you are discrimminating against not just Muslim women, but Orthodox Jewish women. I realize that is an uncomfortable thought for some - after all, how dare we talk about other groups who want the same rights to wear the clothing of their choice

 

[Coyote]

I'm old enough to remember when we were NOT allowed to wear pants to school. And then...they allowed "pantsuits" - but not trousers or jeans (and talk about fugly). I'll be damned if I'm going to allow anyone to tell me what I can or can't wear.

 

[Mindful]

No. The Burkini ban is only temporary and was on direct result from the Muslims waging war on France. Maybe these supposed good Muslims can denounce the oppressive and violent nature of their religion.

Or maybe just go to the beach like a normal person and show everyone that Muslims can be just like anyone else. At the beach not dressed as a black ghost

Or they could segregate beaches, as in Tel Aviv.

So Jews and Muslims, who wish to cover more parts of their body will have to go special beaches?

This gets weirder and weirder. Such a free country....for women....

How has this topic got on to Jews?

Because coyote is looking for any group who wears modest clothing and came up with them to generate sympathy for the Muslims position.

Because Muslims aren't the only demographic who follows conservative traditions of modesty for women. When you make these laws, you are discrimminating against not just Muslim women, but Orthodox Jewish women. I realize that is an uncomfortable thought for some - after all, how dare we talk about other groups who want the same rights to wear the clothing of their choice

The issue in this case related only to the South of France beaches, the recent atrocity in Nice, and the law on Burkas in that country.

All these other tangents and wandering off into rhetorical labyrinths belong in a separate discussion.

 

[skye]

How about a Boxini?

For the Islamic thinking beach babe.

That's the way ^^^^

What burkini or zucchini or pipini.......or cacani even....

This is the way to go for the Sharia Law inclined women out there!

 

[gtopa1]

I think there is a similar problem in the US, plus, children born to women with vit D deficiency are at increased risk, of course.


Rickets soar as children stay indoors: Number diagnosed with disease quadruples in last ten years

• New figures from the NHS show there were 833 hospital admissions
• Ten years earlier the figure was just 190
• The disease, which causes brittle bones and deformities, was common in 19th century Britain

By DAILY MAIL REPORTER

PUBLISHED: 02:02, 22 January 2014 | UPDATED: 02:03, 22 January 2014

+2
New figures from the NHS show there were 833 hospital admissions for children suffering from rickets

The number of children suffering from rickets – once associated with Victorian poverty – is on the rise, with a fourfold increase in sufferers in the last ten years.

New figures from the NHS show there were 833 hospital admissions for children suffering from the condition which is caused by a lack of Vitamin D in the financial year 2012-13.

Ten years earlier the figure was just 190.

Some experts fear that parents obsessing about protecting their children from sunlight, which boosts the body’s level of the key vitamin, has led to the rise...

Rickets soar as children stay indoors

Some interesting data here.

Office of Dietary Supplements - Vitamin D

Eat more VitD.

Greg