The way to keep burkini's off the beaches

[Coyote]

You are being an idiot, as usual. Its about free choice. No one is forcing a woman to wear it and no one is forcing a woman to not wear it. It's a free country. In theory. That 6% who support it can wear it. No one else has to
The only thing I'm defending is 1) the right of women to wear what they wish and 2) religious freedom.

We aren't talking burkas and niqab's. We aren't talking about covering the face.

Is it so hard to accept that some women prefer to cover their bodies?

So, once you decide to outlaw benign religious expressions, where are you going to stop? What are you going to do with Orthodox Jewish women who wear the same clothing - ban them from wearing it? Or, are some religions allowed to "defy" this new expession of "frenchness" that mandates women's clothing?

You have a point if you are talking about clothing that covers faces but otherwise, that video of a group of french policemen standing over a woman and forcing her to disrobe is blatently disturbing.

I can't agree with most of your points because they really aren't relevant.

But seriously it is not expected that you travel to an Arab country as I mentioned, to defend these women freedoms ,which amount to almost zero.

Why don't you start a new thread criticizing these complete lack of freedoms in the Arab countries and I will be glad to join in with you.

Nice deflection Skye/Alex but this isn't a thread about women in unfree countries but women in a free country. Every point I made has been brought up by others already in this thread so there is no need to try to be the resident thread nazi.

Most laws concerning dress codes involve minimum standards for decency or security. In a free country, we see dress run the gamut and reflective of the diversity of the population.

Now, suddenly, there is a law mandating women dress to a more minimal standard - more minimal then they feel is modest on a public beach. Who cares what they wear?

I notice you don't say anything about the pictures of the policeMEN, standing over that poor woman and forcing her to disrobe in public.

This is getting absolutely ridiculous and you keep repeating yourself.

I don't agree with anything you say and further more your pathetic claim that I sound like somebody else meaning that someone else is writing my posts is completely false and really, as a moderator you should be more moderate and not make such claims from nowhere.

This claim does you no credit whatsoever!

You have a reputation for channeling Alex - this isn't the first time here that someone called you on it and that someone then was not me, so don't be silly. When your posts are totally out of character for you in grammar, wording etc then don't be surprised when you are called on it.

As for what I'm posting - you're attempting to control the thread by limiting the topic to your desires.

Do you think it was appropriate for the policemen to force the woman to disrobe on the beach?

In a forum, when a poster complains of another person's grammar or spelling, is a sign that he/she has given up on the argument. But, if complaining makes you happy, hey, whatever rocks your boat!

I'm not complaining about your grammar or spelling - I'd be the LAST person to be a spelling Nazi. I'm saying when you are channeling Alex - it all changes into a different style.

Now, when it comes to the action of the policeman......all I can say to you is this: - Here we go again!

I have made my position clear page after page and if you only want to repeat yourself ....go ahead.....personally I am tired and frankly a bit bored to go over this with you,again and again.

As I can not agree with you and you won't agree with me regarding this topic. it does seem a complete waste of time to continue repeating ourselves forever.

Life is too short to waste it like this!

Life is short, have fun

 

[Coyote]

More views on the issue....

Seriously, What Orthodox Women Wear to the Beach Is No Different From a Burkini

Moshe Sebbag, the rabbi of the Grand Synagogue of Paris, announced this week that he supports the French ban on burkinis, the modest swimwear some Muslim women wear to cover up on the beach.

Wearing a burkini, he said, is not “innocent” and it sends a message.

But, we ask Sebbag, what difference exactly is there between the garb Orthodox Jewish women wear to the beach than the burkinis that some Muslim women wear?


And why should one religious group of women be allowed to follow their traditions over another?​

Look at the photos...what's the difference in style? Maybe, if some of those women didn't have to wear long dresses, but wore a burkini they could swim....have more fun...not have to stay out of the water?

Why we wear the burkini: five women on dressing modestly at the beach

Reasons given by 5 different women on why they prefer to wear it.

 

[Coyote]

Nice deflection Skye/Alex but this isn't a thread about women in unfree countries but women in a free country. Every point I made has been brought up by others already in this thread so there is no need to try to be the resident thread nazi.

Most laws concerning dress codes involve minimum standards for decency or security. In a free country, we see dress run the gamut and reflective of the diversity of the population.

Now, suddenly, there is a law mandating women dress to a more minimal standard - more minimal then they feel is modest on a public beach. Who cares what they wear?

I notice you don't say anything about the pictures of the policeMEN, standing over that poor woman and forcing her to disrobe in public.

This is getting absolutely ridiculous and you keep repeating yourself.

I don't agree with anything you say and further more your pathetic claim that I sound like somebody else meaning that someone else is writing my posts is completely false and really, as a moderator you should be more moderate and not make such claims from nowhere.

This claim does you no credit whatsoever!

You have a reputation for channeling Alex - this isn't the first time here that someone called you on it and that someone then was not me, so don't be silly. When your posts are totally out of character for you in grammar, wording etc then don't be surprised when you are called on it.

As for what I'm posting - you're attempting to control the thread by limiting the topic to your desires.

Do you think it was appropriate for the policemen to force the woman to disrobe on the beach?

Yes I do. As long as the violator was given the opportunity to either take off her burqa or leave the beach.

I doubt the police just walked up and tried to strip her. I am sure she gave some Muslim bs and wasn't friendly to the police.

She looked very intimidated. If they forced a Jewish woman to do the same (Orthodox Jews have very similar rules on modesty and women) - would you accuse her of giving some "Jewish bs" and not being friendly to the police or would you be appropriately outraged at this? How about a Mennonite woman? (though I doubt there are any in France). There are however traditional Muslims and Orthodox Jews.

All this lady had to do was go change into appropriate clothing or leave the beach.

Same way I either had to show them I was deleting photos of the Metro or give up my phone.

It's called respecting the country you reside.

Until it's unconstitutional.

 

[Tilly]

Easy. They're both religions. Complex religions, with a lot of rules and laws to follow. In their more conservative sects, women occupy quite traditional roles. Judaism is the parent of Islam and Christianity.

Since when are we at war with Islam? Far as I know, we, along with many others including Muslim countries are at war with extremists.

Which has nothing to do with women's freedom to dress as they choose.

Who forced you to wear a burkini?

So...let's get this straight. You think it's ok to oppress women by forcing them to dress a certain way?

Real feminists recognize that women are treated brutally in many cultures, including traditional Islamic cultures, but removing from women their freedom to choose is just another form of subjugation even though you are convinced it's liberation.

So...you are saying that forcing women to dress the way YOU think is acceptable is somehow better than other countries forcing women to dress the way THEY think is acceptable?

Geez. So much for freedom.

Once again I have to say that you are missing the whole point of the discussion which is not to do with feminism or women freedom or any other freedoms which can be limited when the state decide otherwise.

We are talking about the fact that this dress code of coverings was imposed by fundamental and radical Islam and has understandably therefore become a potent symbol of Islam.

Actually, the dress code is not necessarily part of "radicalism" - that's where you're off. What you are insisting on is that woman must bare their bodies in defiance of their beliefs because their dress OFFENDS you and you don't want to see anyone who is visibly Muslim.

The last thing the secular French want is to be confronted with Islamic symbolism especially after recent terrorists attacks.

Every citizen of a country must accept certain laws and limitations to their freedom.

There is no point in carrying on and talking any more about feminist and women's rights and their freedom to do whatever they like.

This is a different topic entirely.

Feminism and OPPRESSION of women was part of the discussion from the beginning and one of the rationales used - you must have missed that part.

When citizens of a free and open country accept laws and limitations to their freedom - for example, like the Patriot Act in the US - it's done so for reasons national security or public safety or standards of decency. It's not done because people are offended by the site of Muslim woman who chooses to dress according to her religion. It's especially not done in such a way that explicitly discriminates against one religion, even when other religions impose similar dress codes on their followers.

I'm just wondering what makes this any different then laws in far less open and free countries that mandate a woman completely cover herself in a garment resembling an oversized trash bag. The truth is there is no difference - you're removing from the woman, her right to choose and mandating that she must wear what you think is appropriate.

"Skye" sure seems to be channeling "Alex." in this post.....very odd.

Coyote: "Skye" sure seems to be channeling "Alex." in this post.....very odd."

The only thing "odd" is you. I have ceased discussing this issue with you, you get too emotional and make no sense.

Now, like most internet women, you have to include me into every internet discussion on some level even though I am not around.

As I told you in another more private discussion I am performing concert dates in several states, I sing Yusif Islam tunes, one of my favorite artists is Anila Quayyum Agha who is inspired by traditional Islamic architectural motifs, I am busy showing my photographs and other art work in various galleries and I wash my feet in the sinks of public rest rooms even thought it is prohibited by law.

If anything, I follow skye, she is a woman of class and intelligence, indeed, rare qualities on this forum.


Let me be perfectly clear: I do to want to discuss anything with you. buzz off.

My goodness you are busy promoting yourself, is it ever not about you?

If you are going to write for Skye, try to use a different style, or at least match her own so it isn't so blatent.

My posts make perfect sense. You don't seem to be able to come with a rational reason for forcing women to not wear certain clothing in a free society - a society, I might add where such a law has never been imposed before and is now ruled unconstitutional. The answer most seem to be coming up with is - they are all oppressed and abused. There is plenty of legitimate criticism in the way women are treated in some Islamic societies, along with other aspects of Islam - but this one is ridiculous.

At least you are debating directly and not using Skye as your mouth piece.

That is disgusting...I do not use skye's mouth for anything.

You probably remember I once accused you of writing skye's posts, Alex. Since then I have seen skye write several lengthy and thoughtful posts, so I no longer believe that, and I apologise to you both for that silly accusation Mea Culpa.

 

[StLucieBengal]

Coyote: "Skye" sure seems to be channeling "Alex." in this post.....very odd."

The only thing "odd" is you. I have ceased discussing this issue with you, you get too emotional and make no sense.

Now, like most internet women, you have to include me into every internet discussion on some level even though I am not around.

As I told you in another more private discussion I am performing concert dates in several states, I sing Yusif Islam tunes, one of my favorite artists is Anila Quayyum Agha who is inspired by traditional Islamic architectural motifs, I am busy showing my photographs and other art work in various galleries and I wash my feet in the sinks of public rest rooms even thought it is prohibited by law.

If anything, I follow skye, she is a woman of class and intelligence, indeed, rare qualities on this forum.


Let me be perfectly clear: I do to want to discuss anything with you. buzz off.

My goodness you are busy promoting yourself, is it ever not about you?

If you are going to write for Skye, try to use a different style, or at least match her own so it isn't so blatent.

My posts make perfect sense. You don't seem to be able to come with a rational reason for forcing women to not wear certain clothing in a free society - a society, I might add where such a law has never been imposed before and is now ruled unconstitutional. The answer most seem to be coming up with is - they are all oppressed and abused. There is plenty of legitimate criticism in the way women are treated in some Islamic societies, along with other aspects of Islam - but this one is ridiculous.

At least you are debating directly and not using Skye as your mouth piece.

That is disgusting...I do not use skye's mouth for anything.

So you, and everyone here is supporting a law that has since been ruled unconstitutional. And yet you still support it.

Do you support those policemen forcing the woman to disrobe on a public beach?

How can a temporary ban be a law? And it's only been flipped in 1 out of 31 cities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/world/europe/france-burkini-ban.html


Burkini ban would be 'unconstitutional', says French minister


This is ridiculous - how is it any difference than the "morality police" of restrictive Islamic states? This is "civilized"?

French police make woman remove clothing on Nice beach following burkini ban

The images of police confronting the woman in Nice on Tuesday show at least four police officers standing over a woman who was resting on the shore at the town’s Promenade des Anglais, the scene of last month’s Bastille Day lorry attack.

After they arrive, she appears to remove a blue long-sleeved tunic, although one of the officers appears to take notes or issue an on-the-spot fine.

The photographs emerged as a mother of two also told on Tuesday how she had been fined on the beach in nearby Cannes wearing leggings, a tunic and a headscarf.

Her ticket, seen by French news agency AFP, read that she was not wearing “an outfit respecting good morals and secularism”.

“I was sitting on a beach with my family,” said the 34-year-old who gave only her first name, Siam. “I was wearing a classic headscarf. I had no intention of swimming.”

A witness to the scene, Mathilde Cousin, confirmed the incident. “The saddest thing was that people were shouting ‘go home’, some were applauding the police,” she said. “Her daughter was crying.”​

Coyote: "Skye" sure seems to be channeling "Alex." in this post.....very odd."

The only thing "odd" is you. I have ceased discussing this issue with you, you get too emotional and make no sense.

Now, like most internet women, you have to include me into every internet discussion on some level even though I am not around.

As I told you in another more private discussion I am performing concert dates in several states, I sing Yusif Islam tunes, one of my favorite artists is Anila Quayyum Agha who is inspired by traditional Islamic architectural motifs, I am busy showing my photographs and other art work in various galleries and I wash my feet in the sinks of public rest rooms even thought it is prohibited by law.

If anything, I follow skye, she is a woman of class and intelligence, indeed, rare qualities on this forum.


Let me be perfectly clear: I do to want to discuss anything with you. buzz off.

My goodness you are busy promoting yourself, is it ever not about you?

If you are going to write for Skye, try to use a different style, or at least match her own so it isn't so blatent.

My posts make perfect sense. You don't seem to be able to come with a rational reason for forcing women to not wear certain clothing in a free society - a society, I might add where such a law has never been imposed before and is now ruled unconstitutional. The answer most seem to be coming up with is - they are all oppressed and abused. There is plenty of legitimate criticism in the way women are treated in some Islamic societies, along with other aspects of Islam - but this one is ridiculous.

At least you are debating directly and not using Skye as your mouth piece.

That is disgusting...I do not use skye's mouth for anything.

So you, and everyone here is supporting a law that has since been ruled unconstitutional. And yet you still support it.

Do you support those policemen forcing the woman to disrobe on a public beach?

How can a temporary ban be a law? And it's only been flipped in 1 out of 31 cities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/world/europe/france-burkini-ban.html


Burkini ban would be 'unconstitutional', says French minister


This is ridiculous - how is it any difference than the "morality police" of restrictive Islamic states? This is "civilized"?

French police make woman remove clothing on Nice beach following burkini ban

The images of police confronting the woman in Nice on Tuesday show at least four police officers standing over a woman who was resting on the shore at the town’s Promenade des Anglais, the scene of last month’s Bastille Day lorry attack.

After they arrive, she appears to remove a blue long-sleeved tunic, although one of the officers appears to take notes or issue an on-the-spot fine.

The photographs emerged as a mother of two also told on Tuesday how she had been fined on the beach in nearby Cannes wearing leggings, a tunic and a headscarf.

Her ticket, seen by French news agency AFP, read that she was not wearing “an outfit respecting good morals and secularism”.

“I was sitting on a beach with my family,” said the 34-year-old who gave only her first name, Siam. “I was wearing a classic headscarf. I had no intention of swimming.”

A witness to the scene, Mathilde Cousin, confirmed the incident. “The saddest thing was that people were shouting ‘go home’, some were applauding the police,” she said. “Her daughter was crying.”​

So let's unpack this ....

1st link says 1 city was overturned. That's exactly what I stated. 1 of 31

2nd link is just someone saying it might mean others could be flipped. It also might rain tomorrow and there might be a giant space ship arrive.

The third link is about a paranoid politician who is covering their rear end.

Now on to the lady violating beach policy. The police wrote her a ticket and asked her to change or leave. She wasn't happy and gave an excuse. Her daughter crying is irrelevant .... Kids cry when parents are confronted because they are scared. I bet her daughter cries when she gets dominated by her husband or maybe her daughter is just scared because her father also dominates her along with any brothers she may have as well.

 

[Coyote]

My goodness you are busy promoting yourself, is it ever not about you?

If you are going to write for Skye, try to use a different style, or at least match her own so it isn't so blatent.

My posts make perfect sense. You don't seem to be able to come with a rational reason for forcing women to not wear certain clothing in a free society - a society, I might add where such a law has never been imposed before and is now ruled unconstitutional. The answer most seem to be coming up with is - they are all oppressed and abused. There is plenty of legitimate criticism in the way women are treated in some Islamic societies, along with other aspects of Islam - but this one is ridiculous.

At least you are debating directly and not using Skye as your mouth piece.

That is disgusting...I do not use skye's mouth for anything.

So you, and everyone here is supporting a law that has since been ruled unconstitutional. And yet you still support it.

Do you support those policemen forcing the woman to disrobe on a public beach?

How can a temporary ban be a law? And it's only been flipped in 1 out of 31 cities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/world/europe/france-burkini-ban.html


Burkini ban would be 'unconstitutional', says French minister


This is ridiculous - how is it any difference than the "morality police" of restrictive Islamic states? This is "civilized"?

French police make woman remove clothing on Nice beach following burkini ban

The images of police confronting the woman in Nice on Tuesday show at least four police officers standing over a woman who was resting on the shore at the town’s Promenade des Anglais, the scene of last month’s Bastille Day lorry attack.

After they arrive, she appears to remove a blue long-sleeved tunic, although one of the officers appears to take notes or issue an on-the-spot fine.

The photographs emerged as a mother of two also told on Tuesday how she had been fined on the beach in nearby Cannes wearing leggings, a tunic and a headscarf.

Her ticket, seen by French news agency AFP, read that she was not wearing “an outfit respecting good morals and secularism”.

“I was sitting on a beach with my family,” said the 34-year-old who gave only her first name, Siam. “I was wearing a classic headscarf. I had no intention of swimming.”

A witness to the scene, Mathilde Cousin, confirmed the incident. “The saddest thing was that people were shouting ‘go home’, some were applauding the police,” she said. “Her daughter was crying.”​

My goodness you are busy promoting yourself, is it ever not about you?

If you are going to write for Skye, try to use a different style, or at least match her own so it isn't so blatent.

My posts make perfect sense. You don't seem to be able to come with a rational reason for forcing women to not wear certain clothing in a free society - a society, I might add where such a law has never been imposed before and is now ruled unconstitutional. The answer most seem to be coming up with is - they are all oppressed and abused. There is plenty of legitimate criticism in the way women are treated in some Islamic societies, along with other aspects of Islam - but this one is ridiculous.

At least you are debating directly and not using Skye as your mouth piece.

That is disgusting...I do not use skye's mouth for anything.

So you, and everyone here is supporting a law that has since been ruled unconstitutional. And yet you still support it.

Do you support those policemen forcing the woman to disrobe on a public beach?

How can a temporary ban be a law? And it's only been flipped in 1 out of 31 cities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/world/europe/france-burkini-ban.html


Burkini ban would be 'unconstitutional', says French minister


This is ridiculous - how is it any difference than the "morality police" of restrictive Islamic states? This is "civilized"?

French police make woman remove clothing on Nice beach following burkini ban

The images of police confronting the woman in Nice on Tuesday show at least four police officers standing over a woman who was resting on the shore at the town’s Promenade des Anglais, the scene of last month’s Bastille Day lorry attack.

After they arrive, she appears to remove a blue long-sleeved tunic, although one of the officers appears to take notes or issue an on-the-spot fine.

The photographs emerged as a mother of two also told on Tuesday how she had been fined on the beach in nearby Cannes wearing leggings, a tunic and a headscarf.

Her ticket, seen by French news agency AFP, read that she was not wearing “an outfit respecting good morals and secularism”.

“I was sitting on a beach with my family,” said the 34-year-old who gave only her first name, Siam. “I was wearing a classic headscarf. I had no intention of swimming.”

A witness to the scene, Mathilde Cousin, confirmed the incident. “The saddest thing was that people were shouting ‘go home’, some were applauding the police,” she said. “Her daughter was crying.”​

So let's unpack this ....

1st link says 1 city was overturned. That's exactly what I stated. 1 of 31

2nd link is just someone saying it might mean others could be flipped. It also might rain tomorrow and there might be a giant space ship arrive.

The third link is about a paranoid politician who is covering their rear end.

Now on to the lady violating beach policy. The police wrote her a ticket and asked her to change or leave. She wasn't happy and gave an excuse. Her daughter crying is irrelevant .... Kids cry when parents are confronted because they are scared. I bet her daughter cries when she gets dominated by her husband or maybe her daughter is just scared because her father also dominates her along with any brothers she may have as well.

How do you know she gets dominated by her husband? You don't.

 

[Alex.]

Once again I have to say that you are missing the whole point of the discussion which is not to do with feminism or women freedom or any other freedoms which can be limited when the state decide otherwise.

We are talking about the fact that this dress code of coverings was imposed by fundamental and radical Islam and has understandably therefore become a potent symbol of Islam.

Actually, the dress code is not necessarily part of "radicalism" - that's where you're off. What you are insisting on is that woman must bare their bodies in defiance of their beliefs because their dress OFFENDS you and you don't want to see anyone who is visibly Muslim.

The last thing the secular French want is to be confronted with Islamic symbolism especially after recent terrorists attacks.

Every citizen of a country must accept certain laws and limitations to their freedom.

There is no point in carrying on and talking any more about feminist and women's rights and their freedom to do whatever they like.

This is a different topic entirely.

Feminism and OPPRESSION of women was part of the discussion from the beginning and one of the rationales used - you must have missed that part.

When citizens of a free and open country accept laws and limitations to their freedom - for example, like the Patriot Act in the US - it's done so for reasons national security or public safety or standards of decency. It's not done because people are offended by the site of Muslim woman who chooses to dress according to her religion. It's especially not done in such a way that explicitly discriminates against one religion, even when other religions impose similar dress codes on their followers.

I'm just wondering what makes this any different then laws in far less open and free countries that mandate a woman completely cover herself in a garment resembling an oversized trash bag. The truth is there is no difference - you're removing from the woman, her right to choose and mandating that she must wear what you think is appropriate.

"Skye" sure seems to be channeling "Alex." in this post.....very odd.

Coyote: "Skye" sure seems to be channeling "Alex." in this post.....very odd."

The only thing "odd" is you. I have ceased discussing this issue with you, you get too emotional and make no sense.

Now, like most internet women, you have to include me into every internet discussion on some level even though I am not around.

As I told you in another more private discussion I am performing concert dates in several states, I sing Yusif Islam tunes, one of my favorite artists is Anila Quayyum Agha who is inspired by traditional Islamic architectural motifs, I am busy showing my photographs and other art work in various galleries and I wash my feet in the sinks of public rest rooms even thought it is prohibited by law.

If anything, I follow skye, she is a woman of class and intelligence, indeed, rare qualities on this forum.


Let me be perfectly clear: I do to want to discuss anything with you. buzz off.

My goodness you are busy promoting yourself, is it ever not about you?

If you are going to write for Skye, try to use a different style, or at least match her own so it isn't so blatent.

My posts make perfect sense. You don't seem to be able to come with a rational reason for forcing women to not wear certain clothing in a free society - a society, I might add where such a law has never been imposed before and is now ruled unconstitutional. The answer most seem to be coming up with is - they are all oppressed and abused. There is plenty of legitimate criticism in the way women are treated in some Islamic societies, along with other aspects of Islam - but this one is ridiculous.

At least you are debating directly and not using Skye as your mouth piece.

That is disgusting...I do not use skye's mouth for anything.

You probably remember I once accused you of writing skye's posts, Alex. Since then I have seen skye write several lengthy and thoughtful posts, so I no longer believe that, and I apologise to you both for that silly accusation Mea Culpa.

I have absolutely nothing to do with skye

 

[Tilly]

The people of France do not like to see conspicuous or ostentatious displays of religious affiliation in public spaces. They don't even like to be asked if they are religious, nor what religion they practice. It goes against their principle of secularity. I don't doubt whichever right winger is elected next year, they will be banning the burqini, as is their right, and it seems that only 6% of the population would disagree with that.

 

[StLucieBengal]

That is disgusting...I do not use skye's mouth for anything.

So you, and everyone here is supporting a law that has since been ruled unconstitutional. And yet you still support it.

Do you support those policemen forcing the woman to disrobe on a public beach?

How can a temporary ban be a law? And it's only been flipped in 1 out of 31 cities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/world/europe/france-burkini-ban.html


Burkini ban would be 'unconstitutional', says French minister


This is ridiculous - how is it any difference than the "morality police" of restrictive Islamic states? This is "civilized"?

French police make woman remove clothing on Nice beach following burkini ban

The images of police confronting the woman in Nice on Tuesday show at least four police officers standing over a woman who was resting on the shore at the town’s Promenade des Anglais, the scene of last month’s Bastille Day lorry attack.

After they arrive, she appears to remove a blue long-sleeved tunic, although one of the officers appears to take notes or issue an on-the-spot fine.

The photographs emerged as a mother of two also told on Tuesday how she had been fined on the beach in nearby Cannes wearing leggings, a tunic and a headscarf.

Her ticket, seen by French news agency AFP, read that she was not wearing “an outfit respecting good morals and secularism”.

“I was sitting on a beach with my family,” said the 34-year-old who gave only her first name, Siam. “I was wearing a classic headscarf. I had no intention of swimming.”

A witness to the scene, Mathilde Cousin, confirmed the incident. “The saddest thing was that people were shouting ‘go home’, some were applauding the police,” she said. “Her daughter was crying.”​

That is disgusting...I do not use skye's mouth for anything.

So you, and everyone here is supporting a law that has since been ruled unconstitutional. And yet you still support it.

Do you support those policemen forcing the woman to disrobe on a public beach?

How can a temporary ban be a law? And it's only been flipped in 1 out of 31 cities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/world/europe/france-burkini-ban.html


Burkini ban would be 'unconstitutional', says French minister


This is ridiculous - how is it any difference than the "morality police" of restrictive Islamic states? This is "civilized"?

French police make woman remove clothing on Nice beach following burkini ban

The images of police confronting the woman in Nice on Tuesday show at least four police officers standing over a woman who was resting on the shore at the town’s Promenade des Anglais, the scene of last month’s Bastille Day lorry attack.

After they arrive, she appears to remove a blue long-sleeved tunic, although one of the officers appears to take notes or issue an on-the-spot fine.

The photographs emerged as a mother of two also told on Tuesday how she had been fined on the beach in nearby Cannes wearing leggings, a tunic and a headscarf.

Her ticket, seen by French news agency AFP, read that she was not wearing “an outfit respecting good morals and secularism”.

“I was sitting on a beach with my family,” said the 34-year-old who gave only her first name, Siam. “I was wearing a classic headscarf. I had no intention of swimming.”

A witness to the scene, Mathilde Cousin, confirmed the incident. “The saddest thing was that people were shouting ‘go home’, some were applauding the police,” she said. “Her daughter was crying.”​

So let's unpack this ....

1st link says 1 city was overturned. That's exactly what I stated. 1 of 31

2nd link is just someone saying it might mean others could be flipped. It also might rain tomorrow and there might be a giant space ship arrive.

The third link is about a paranoid politician who is covering their rear end.

Now on to the lady violating beach policy. The police wrote her a ticket and asked her to change or leave. She wasn't happy and gave an excuse. Her daughter crying is irrelevant .... Kids cry when parents are confronted because they are scared. I bet her daughter cries when she gets dominated by her husband or maybe her daughter is just scared because her father also dominates her along with any brothers she may have as well.

How do you know she gets dominated by her husband? You don't.

Because the statistics dictate that Muslim women expierence domestic violence at a higher rate.

 

[Coyote]

So you, and everyone here is supporting a law that has since been ruled unconstitutional. And yet you still support it.

Do you support those policemen forcing the woman to disrobe on a public beach?

How can a temporary ban be a law? And it's only been flipped in 1 out of 31 cities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/world/europe/france-burkini-ban.html


Burkini ban would be 'unconstitutional', says French minister


This is ridiculous - how is it any difference than the "morality police" of restrictive Islamic states? This is "civilized"?

French police make woman remove clothing on Nice beach following burkini ban

The images of police confronting the woman in Nice on Tuesday show at least four police officers standing over a woman who was resting on the shore at the town’s Promenade des Anglais, the scene of last month’s Bastille Day lorry attack.

After they arrive, she appears to remove a blue long-sleeved tunic, although one of the officers appears to take notes or issue an on-the-spot fine.

The photographs emerged as a mother of two also told on Tuesday how she had been fined on the beach in nearby Cannes wearing leggings, a tunic and a headscarf.

Her ticket, seen by French news agency AFP, read that she was not wearing “an outfit respecting good morals and secularism”.

“I was sitting on a beach with my family,” said the 34-year-old who gave only her first name, Siam. “I was wearing a classic headscarf. I had no intention of swimming.”

A witness to the scene, Mathilde Cousin, confirmed the incident. “The saddest thing was that people were shouting ‘go home’, some were applauding the police,” she said. “Her daughter was crying.”​

So you, and everyone here is supporting a law that has since been ruled unconstitutional. And yet you still support it.

Do you support those policemen forcing the woman to disrobe on a public beach?

How can a temporary ban be a law? And it's only been flipped in 1 out of 31 cities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/world/europe/france-burkini-ban.html


Burkini ban would be 'unconstitutional', says French minister


This is ridiculous - how is it any difference than the "morality police" of restrictive Islamic states? This is "civilized"?

French police make woman remove clothing on Nice beach following burkini ban

The images of police confronting the woman in Nice on Tuesday show at least four police officers standing over a woman who was resting on the shore at the town’s Promenade des Anglais, the scene of last month’s Bastille Day lorry attack.

After they arrive, she appears to remove a blue long-sleeved tunic, although one of the officers appears to take notes or issue an on-the-spot fine.

The photographs emerged as a mother of two also told on Tuesday how she had been fined on the beach in nearby Cannes wearing leggings, a tunic and a headscarf.

Her ticket, seen by French news agency AFP, read that she was not wearing “an outfit respecting good morals and secularism”.

“I was sitting on a beach with my family,” said the 34-year-old who gave only her first name, Siam. “I was wearing a classic headscarf. I had no intention of swimming.”

A witness to the scene, Mathilde Cousin, confirmed the incident. “The saddest thing was that people were shouting ‘go home’, some were applauding the police,” she said. “Her daughter was crying.”​

So let's unpack this ....

1st link says 1 city was overturned. That's exactly what I stated. 1 of 31

2nd link is just someone saying it might mean others could be flipped. It also might rain tomorrow and there might be a giant space ship arrive.

The third link is about a paranoid politician who is covering their rear end.

Now on to the lady violating beach policy. The police wrote her a ticket and asked her to change or leave. She wasn't happy and gave an excuse. Her daughter crying is irrelevant .... Kids cry when parents are confronted because they are scared. I bet her daughter cries when she gets dominated by her husband or maybe her daughter is just scared because her father also dominates her along with any brothers she may have as well.

How do you know she gets dominated by her husband? You don't.

Because the statistics dictate that Muslim women expierence domestic violence at a higher rate.

What statistics where?

 

[StLucieBengal]

More views on the issue....

Seriously, What Orthodox Women Wear to the Beach Is No Different From a Burkini

Moshe Sebbag, the rabbi of the Grand Synagogue of Paris, announced this week that he supports the French ban on burkinis, the modest swimwear some Muslim women wear to cover up on the beach.

Wearing a burkini, he said, is not “innocent” and it sends a message.

But, we ask Sebbag, what difference exactly is there between the garb Orthodox Jewish women wear to the beach than the burkinis that some Muslim women wear?


And why should one religious group of women be allowed to follow their traditions over another?​

Look at the photos...what's the difference in style? Maybe, if some of those women didn't have to wear long dresses, but wore a burkini they could swim....have more fun...not have to stay out of the water?

Why we wear the burkini: five women on dressing modestly at the beach

Reasons given by 5 different women on why they prefer to wear it.

Why do you keep making the ridiculous comparison to the Jews? Those 2 photos in that article look vastly different.

One you can see their head, hair and face.

One looks like an alien with hands and feet.

 

[Esmeralda]

there is no need to try to be the resident thread nazi.

.

Don't worry -- your role is safe from competition.

Your arguments strike me as much akin to those of pedophiles when it comes to their having sex with children, though. Now, I realize you don't really oppose that, either, but pedophiles also argue that it is the child's choice -- actually empowering to them just as you argue in cases of women under the yoke of Islam. You see, if pedophiles can start grooming children at a young enough age, they come to accept it as normal and by the time they are seven or eight, they will actually claim it is their choice. Similarly, in these Islamic cultures you love so much, girls are conditioned from a very young age -- groomed for their role just as thoroughly as the pedophiles groom children for sex. You do not worry about this exploitation, of course, since you are simply looking for an opportunity to call people a bigot or an Islamophobe or a racist since that makes you feel good about yourself, but you are propping up an entire system of degradation here.

Calling these symbols of female subservience a "choice" is simply one of those ruses you use time and time again to invert the true nature of what you actually support. A women who has been groomed from the time she was a child to say it is her "choice" is no different than an 8 year old saying her having sex with a 42 year old man is hers. The same type of grooming is invo

Burkini's also allow women who might not otherwise get out to enjoy the beach, out and enjoying the beach. And what people don't realize, it's not just Muslim women who face this problem and it's not just Muslim women who are impacted by these sorts of decisions.

The challenges of exercising for some Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women

There is a lot of partial nudity on the beaches of France, especially along the Mediterranean. Many women go topless. I wonder that conservative Muslim women would be comfortable in such an atmosphere. I wonder why they would even want to be there.

I lived for 2 years in Turkey. I traveled around Turkey with Muslim women. They go to the beach and wear bikinis, older women may wear one piece suits. No one felt this was an offense to modesty. It is not Islam that dictates something like the burkini. It is oppressive cultural attitudes.

Agree, it's cultural attitudes - but, who has the right to force them to where something they feel is dreadfully imodest? Shouldn't it be her choice?

Well, it isn't their culture. If the French culture says you can't wear this outfit, we don't find it acceptable, then that's what you adhere to. I have lived in far more conservative Muslim countries than Turkey and I and other Western women are expected to conform to a certain level of modesty in public dress. We are not onlyy expected to, we are required to. Now, for me, an older woman, it is not really an issue, but young women simply cannot wear the kind of clothing, like mini skirts or tank tops, for instance, they would wear in the West

I find it extremelyy hypocritical that the Muslim women get so bent out of shape being required to abstain from certain dress when they are in the West, but expect Western women to adhere to their standards in Muslim countries.

This is where i am at... Our women can't wear normal clothes over there so why on earth should we bend over backwards for their nonsense.

If our women need to put on a scarf and cover up all skin then when they Muslims come to the west they can wear tank tops and shorts. And if it's that big of an issue for them then they can just not come. Just as we can not go there if we don't wanna respect their ways.

Precisely because we ARE NOT those countries we can allow women to choose to wear what they want. We don't impose irrational standards on them. Why do people seem to think we should be like those countries?

Who says it's irrational? It's a matter of perspective, and culture is alI about perspective. Is preserving and protecting one's culture irrational? Is allowing a dominant minority of immigrants to refuse to adapt to the culture rational?

 

[Coyote]

More views on the issue....

Seriously, What Orthodox Women Wear to the Beach Is No Different From a Burkini

Moshe Sebbag, the rabbi of the Grand Synagogue of Paris, announced this week that he supports the French ban on burkinis, the modest swimwear some Muslim women wear to cover up on the beach.

Wearing a burkini, he said, is not “innocent” and it sends a message.

But, we ask Sebbag, what difference exactly is there between the garb Orthodox Jewish women wear to the beach than the burkinis that some Muslim women wear?


And why should one religious group of women be allowed to follow their traditions over another?​

Look at the photos...what's the difference in style? Maybe, if some of those women didn't have to wear long dresses, but wore a burkini they could swim....have more fun...not have to stay out of the water?

Why we wear the burkini: five women on dressing modestly at the beach

Reasons given by 5 different women on why they prefer to wear it.

Why do you keep making the ridiculous comparison to the Jews? Those 2 photos in that article look vastly different.

One you can see their head, hair and face.

One looks like an alien with hands and feet.

Very little difference and since none of them remotely resemble the swimwear of typical French beach goers that is desired by those supporting the ban, you need to move the goalposts a bit.

 

[StLucieBengal]

More views on the issue....

Seriously, What Orthodox Women Wear to the Beach Is No Different From a Burkini

Moshe Sebbag, the rabbi of the Grand Synagogue of Paris, announced this week that he supports the French ban on burkinis, the modest swimwear some Muslim women wear to cover up on the beach.

Wearing a burkini, he said, is not “innocent” and it sends a message.

But, we ask Sebbag, what difference exactly is there between the garb Orthodox Jewish women wear to the beach than the burkinis that some Muslim women wear?


And why should one religious group of women be allowed to follow their traditions over another?​

Look at the photos...what's the difference in style? Maybe, if some of those women didn't have to wear long dresses, but wore a burkini they could swim....have more fun...not have to stay out of the water?

Why we wear the burkini: five women on dressing modestly at the beach

Reasons given by 5 different women on why they prefer to wear it.

Why do you keep making the ridiculous comparison to the Jews? Those 2 photos in that article look vastly different.

One you can see their head, hair and face.

One looks like an alien with hands and feet.

Very little difference and since none of them remotely resemble the swimwear of typical French beach goers that is desired by those supporting the ban, you need to move the goalposts a bit.

Post a photo of what you think the typical French beach goer wears.

 

[Coyote]

there is no need to try to be the resident thread nazi.

.

Don't worry -- your role is safe from competition.

Your arguments strike me as much akin to those of pedophiles when it comes to their having sex with children, though. Now, I realize you don't really oppose that, either, but pedophiles also argue that it is the child's choice -- actually empowering to them just as you argue in cases of women under the yoke of Islam. You see, if pedophiles can start grooming children at a young enough age, they come to accept it as normal and by the time they are seven or eight, they will actually claim it is their choice. Similarly, in these Islamic cultures you love so much, girls are conditioned from a very young age -- groomed for their role just as thoroughly as the pedophiles groom children for sex. You do not worry about this exploitation, of course, since you are simply looking for an opportunity to call people a bigot or an Islamophobe or a racist since that makes you feel good about yourself, but you are propping up an entire system of degradation here.

Calling these symbols of female subservience a "choice" is simply one of those ruses you use time and time again to invert the true nature of what you actually support. A women who has been groomed from the time she was a child to say it is her "choice" is no different than an 8 year old saying her having sex with a 42 year old man is hers. The same type of grooming is invo

There is a lot of partial nudity on the beaches of France, especially along the Mediterranean. Many women go topless. I wonder that conservative Muslim women would be comfortable in such an atmosphere. I wonder why they would even want to be there.

I lived for 2 years in Turkey. I traveled around Turkey with Muslim women. They go to the beach and wear bikinis, older women may wear one piece suits. No one felt this was an offense to modesty. It is not Islam that dictates something like the burkini. It is oppressive cultural attitudes.

Agree, it's cultural attitudes - but, who has the right to force them to where something they feel is dreadfully imodest? Shouldn't it be her choice?

Well, it isn't their culture. If the French culture says you can't wear this outfit, we don't find it acceptable, then that's what you adhere to. I have lived in far more conservative Muslim countries than Turkey and I and other Western women are expected to conform to a certain level of modesty in public dress. We are not onlyy expected to, we are required to. Now, for me, an older woman, it is not really an issue, but young women simply cannot wear the kind of clothing, like mini skirts or tank tops, for instance, they would wear in the West

I find it extremelyy hypocritical that the Muslim women get so bent out of shape being required to abstain from certain dress when they are in the West, but expect Western women to adhere to their standards in Muslim countries.

This is where i am at... Our women can't wear normal clothes over there so why on earth should we bend over backwards for their nonsense.

If our women need to put on a scarf and cover up all skin then when they Muslims come to the west they can wear tank tops and shorts. And if it's that big of an issue for them then they can just not come. Just as we can not go there if we don't wanna respect their ways.

Precisely because we ARE NOT those countries we can allow women to choose to wear what they want. We don't impose irrational standards on them. Why do people seem to think we should be like those countries?

Who says it's irrational? It's a matter of perspective, and culture is alI about perspective. Is preserving and protecting one's culture irrational? Is allowing a dominant minority of immigrants to refuse to adapt to the culture rational?

How many free, pluralistic and democratic countries such as France or the US mandate standards of clothing other than minimal required coverage?

How is choosing a more modest swimsuit style for ONESELF - refusing to adapt to a culture that has, up to now, imposed no standard on beachwear other than minimal coverage?

If the dominant culture prefered wearing thongs and you were highly uncomfortable wearing them - should you be forced to? Maybe in Saudi Arabia where there are no individual rights (subsitute Burka) - but in a country like the US?

 

[Tilly]

So you, and everyone here is supporting a law that has since been ruled unconstitutional. And yet you still support it.

Do you support those policemen forcing the woman to disrobe on a public beach?

How can a temporary ban be a law? And it's only been flipped in 1 out of 31 cities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/world/europe/france-burkini-ban.html


Burkini ban would be 'unconstitutional', says French minister


This is ridiculous - how is it any difference than the "morality police" of restrictive Islamic states? This is "civilized"?

French police make woman remove clothing on Nice beach following burkini ban

The images of police confronting the woman in Nice on Tuesday show at least four police officers standing over a woman who was resting on the shore at the town’s Promenade des Anglais, the scene of last month’s Bastille Day lorry attack.

After they arrive, she appears to remove a blue long-sleeved tunic, although one of the officers appears to take notes or issue an on-the-spot fine.

The photographs emerged as a mother of two also told on Tuesday how she had been fined on the beach in nearby Cannes wearing leggings, a tunic and a headscarf.

Her ticket, seen by French news agency AFP, read that she was not wearing “an outfit respecting good morals and secularism”.

“I was sitting on a beach with my family,” said the 34-year-old who gave only her first name, Siam. “I was wearing a classic headscarf. I had no intention of swimming.”

A witness to the scene, Mathilde Cousin, confirmed the incident. “The saddest thing was that people were shouting ‘go home’, some were applauding the police,” she said. “Her daughter was crying.”​

So you, and everyone here is supporting a law that has since been ruled unconstitutional. And yet you still support it.

Do you support those policemen forcing the woman to disrobe on a public beach?

How can a temporary ban be a law? And it's only been flipped in 1 out of 31 cities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/world/europe/france-burkini-ban.html


Burkini ban would be 'unconstitutional', says French minister


This is ridiculous - how is it any difference than the "morality police" of restrictive Islamic states? This is "civilized"?

French police make woman remove clothing on Nice beach following burkini ban

The images of police confronting the woman in Nice on Tuesday show at least four police officers standing over a woman who was resting on the shore at the town’s Promenade des Anglais, the scene of last month’s Bastille Day lorry attack.

After they arrive, she appears to remove a blue long-sleeved tunic, although one of the officers appears to take notes or issue an on-the-spot fine.

The photographs emerged as a mother of two also told on Tuesday how she had been fined on the beach in nearby Cannes wearing leggings, a tunic and a headscarf.

Her ticket, seen by French news agency AFP, read that she was not wearing “an outfit respecting good morals and secularism”.

“I was sitting on a beach with my family,” said the 34-year-old who gave only her first name, Siam. “I was wearing a classic headscarf. I had no intention of swimming.”

A witness to the scene, Mathilde Cousin, confirmed the incident. “The saddest thing was that people were shouting ‘go home’, some were applauding the police,” she said. “Her daughter was crying.”​

So let's unpack this ....

1st link says 1 city was overturned. That's exactly what I stated. 1 of 31

2nd link is just someone saying it might mean others could be flipped. It also might rain tomorrow and there might be a giant space ship arrive.

The third link is about a paranoid politician who is covering their rear end.

Now on to the lady violating beach policy. The police wrote her a ticket and asked her to change or leave. She wasn't happy and gave an excuse. Her daughter crying is irrelevant .... Kids cry when parents are confronted because they are scared. I bet her daughter cries when she gets dominated by her husband or maybe her daughter is just scared because her father also dominates her along with any brothers she may have as well.

How do you know she gets dominated by her husband? You don't.

Because the statistics dictate that Muslim women expierence domestic violence at a higher rate.

Also, most French muslims are from Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia and sub Saharan Africa, places that Amnesty Inernational reports to have serious sexual violence against women and terribly misogynistic rape laws, and so on.

 

[Coyote]

More views on the issue....

Seriously, What Orthodox Women Wear to the Beach Is No Different From a Burkini

Moshe Sebbag, the rabbi of the Grand Synagogue of Paris, announced this week that he supports the French ban on burkinis, the modest swimwear some Muslim women wear to cover up on the beach.

Wearing a burkini, he said, is not “innocent” and it sends a message.

But, we ask Sebbag, what difference exactly is there between the garb Orthodox Jewish women wear to the beach than the burkinis that some Muslim women wear?


And why should one religious group of women be allowed to follow their traditions over another?​

Look at the photos...what's the difference in style? Maybe, if some of those women didn't have to wear long dresses, but wore a burkini they could swim....have more fun...not have to stay out of the water?

Why we wear the burkini: five women on dressing modestly at the beach

Reasons given by 5 different women on why they prefer to wear it.

Why do you keep making the ridiculous comparison to the Jews? Those 2 photos in that article look vastly different.

One you can see their head, hair and face.

One looks like an alien with hands and feet.

Very little difference and since none of them remotely resemble the swimwear of typical French beach goers that is desired by those supporting the ban, you need to move the goalposts a bit.

Post a photo of what you think the typical French beach goer wears.

 

[Esmeralda]

there is no need to try to be the resident thread nazi.

.

Don't worry -- your role is safe from competition.

Your arguments strike me as much akin to those of pedophiles when it comes to their having sex with children, though. Now, I realize you don't really oppose that, either, but pedophiles also argue that it is the child's choice -- actually empowering to them just as you argue in cases of women under the yoke of Islam. You see, if pedophiles can start grooming children at a young enough age, they come to accept it as normal and by the time they are seven or eight, they will actually claim it is their choice. Similarly, in these Islamic cultures you love so much, girls are conditioned from a very young age -- groomed for their role just as thoroughly as the pedophiles groom children for sex. You do not worry about this exploitation, of course, since you are simply looking for an opportunity to call people a bigot or an Islamophobe or a racist since that makes you feel good about yourself, but you are propping up an entire system of degradation here.

Calling these symbols of female subservience a "choice" is simply one of those ruses you use time and time again to invert the true nature of what you actually support. A women who has been groomed from the time she was a child to say it is her "choice" is no different than an 8 year old saying her having sex with a 42 year old man is hers. The same type of grooming is invo

Agree, it's cultural attitudes - but, who has the right to force them to where something they feel is dreadfully imodest? Shouldn't it be her choice?

Well, it isn't their culture. If the French culture says you can't wear this outfit, we don't find it acceptable, then that's what you adhere to. I have lived in far more conservative Muslim countries than Turkey and I and other Western women are expected to conform to a certain level of modesty in public dress. We are not onlyy expected to, we are required to. Now, for me, an older woman, it is not really an issue, but young women simply cannot wear the kind of clothing, like mini skirts or tank tops, for instance, they would wear in the West

I find it extremelyy hypocritical that the Muslim women get so bent out of shape being required to abstain from certain dress when they are in the West, but expect Western women to adhere to their standards in Muslim countries.

This is where i am at... Our women can't wear normal clothes over there so why on earth should we bend over backwards for their nonsense.

If our women need to put on a scarf and cover up all skin then when they Muslims come to the west they can wear tank tops and shorts. And if it's that big of an issue for them then they can just not come. Just as we can not go there if we don't wanna respect their ways.

Precisely because we ARE NOT those countries we can allow women to choose to wear what they want. We don't impose irrational standards on them. Why do people seem to think we should be like those countries?

Who says it's irrational? It's a matter of perspective, and culture is alI about perspective. Is preserving and protecting one's culture irrational? Is allowing a dominant minority of immigrants to refuse to adapt to the culture rational?

How many free, pluralistic and democratic countries such as France or the US mandate standards of clothing other than minimal required coverage?

How is choosing a more modest swimsuit style for ONESELF - refusing to adapt to a culture that has, up to now, imposed no standard on beachwear other than minimal coverage?

If the dominant culture prefered wearing thongs and you were highly uncomfortable wearing them - should you be forced to? Maybe in Saudi Arabia where there are no individual rights (subsitute Burka) - but in a country like the US?

This is not about clothing. As I have said, thie issue is not strictly the burkini per se. This is aobut a refusal to adapt to the culture. I have spent a lot of time in France and a have been noting the impact of the large population of Muslims there. They are mostly poor, uneducated, religious people who come to France for economic reasons. They don't embrace the culture nor do they adapt to it. They scorn French customs and perspectives. They take advantage of the freedoms (such as wearing whatever you want) and better economic conditions but do not embrace or love the country itself. That is the statement the burkini makes. The French are offended by this and quite rightly.

No one is being forced to wear anything. They have the choice to go to only private beaches or pools, to wear modest one piece suits, etc. But to make the extreme statement a burkini makes is antagonistic, both politically and socially, not simply a choice of clothing. It represents the oppresion of women, which is anthithical to French culture, and it represents a refusal to adapt to French culture at the beach.

 

[StLucieBengal]

More views on the issue....

Seriously, What Orthodox Women Wear to the Beach Is No Different From a Burkini

Moshe Sebbag, the rabbi of the Grand Synagogue of Paris, announced this week that he supports the French ban on burkinis, the modest swimwear some Muslim women wear to cover up on the beach.

Wearing a burkini, he said, is not “innocent” and it sends a message.

But, we ask Sebbag, what difference exactly is there between the garb Orthodox Jewish women wear to the beach than the burkinis that some Muslim women wear?


And why should one religious group of women be allowed to follow their traditions over another?​

Look at the photos...what's the difference in style? Maybe, if some of those women didn't have to wear long dresses, but wore a burkini they could swim....have more fun...not have to stay out of the water?

Why we wear the burkini: five women on dressing modestly at the beach

Reasons given by 5 different women on why they prefer to wear it.

Why do you keep making the ridiculous comparison to the Jews? Those 2 photos in that article look vastly different.

One you can see their head, hair and face.

One looks like an alien with hands and feet.

Very little difference and since none of them remotely resemble the swimwear of typical French beach goers that is desired by those supporting the ban, you need to move the goalposts a bit.

Post a photo of what you think the typical French beach goer wears.

Is that supposed to be a where's Waldo?

You post all these single photos then when asked for the French norm you go with a sky shot lol

 

[flacaltenn]

I can't agree with most of your points because they really aren't relevant.

But seriously it is not expected that you travel to an Arab country as I mentioned, to defend these women freedoms ,which amount to almost zero.

Why don't you start a new thread criticizing these complete lack of freedoms in the Arab countries and I will be glad to join in with you.

Nice deflection Skye/Alex but this isn't a thread about women in unfree countries but women in a free country. Every point I made has been brought up by others already in this thread so there is no need to try to be the resident thread nazi.

Most laws concerning dress codes involve minimum standards for decency or security. In a free country, we see dress run the gamut and reflective of the diversity of the population.

Now, suddenly, there is a law mandating women dress to a more minimal standard - more minimal then they feel is modest on a public beach. Who cares what they wear?

I notice you don't say anything about the pictures of the policeMEN, standing over that poor woman and forcing her to disrobe in public.

This is getting absolutely ridiculous and you keep repeating yourself.

I don't agree with anything you say and further more your pathetic claim that I sound like somebody else meaning that someone else is writing my posts is completely false and really, as a moderator you should be more moderate and not make such claims from nowhere.

This claim does you no credit whatsoever!

You have a reputation for channeling Alex - this isn't the first time here that someone called you on it and that someone then was not me, so don't be silly. When your posts are totally out of character for you in grammar, wording etc then don't be surprised when you are called on it.

As for what I'm posting - you're attempting to control the thread by limiting the topic to your desires.

Do you think it was appropriate for the policemen to force the woman to disrobe on the beach?

Yes I do. As long as the violator was given the opportunity to either take off her burqa or leave the beach.

I doubt the police just walked up and tried to strip her. I am sure she gave some Muslim bs and wasn't friendly to the police.

She looked very intimidated. If they forced a Jewish woman to do the same (Orthodox Jews have very similar rules on modesty and women) - would you accuse her of giving some "Jewish bs" and not being friendly to the police or would you be appropriately outraged at this? How about a Mennonite woman? (though I doubt there are any in France). There are however traditional Muslims and Orthodox Jews.

Good point about Mennonites and their related groups.

Just scanning this messy battle of a thread -- one thing that bothers me is that whether it's Constitutional or legal or not may NOT be the big issue. To live in a FREE country -- you have to have to tolerance for acts of others that you may personally hate or not condone Without Tolerance -- there really is no freedom at all. And the LAW might be used unnecessarily and abusively as substitute for tolerance.

So when you're driving a Pennsylvania rural road and an Amish Cart almost becomes a hood ornament on your Bimmer --- do you flip a bird and mutter something about "there ought to be a law"? Or do you suddenly realize that there are other cultures in proximity that need to have space for their identity?

Hassling burkinis is a belated and meaningless gesture given the GROSS NEGLECT of French Sovereignty that the citizens have allowed to occur. Losing control of their identity and borders. And their failure to confront Muslim integration and assimilation HEAD ON. It's silly.

UNLESS --- there IS assimilation and these same women start to re-evaluate what modesty is to them. And they decide to shed the burkinis by their own free will. THEN -- if a husband/relative seeks to punish them or harm them for that action --- THAT would be time to act. That is real support for integration and learning to live in a FREE state.