The world leaping ahead of us, the U.S. still has no fast trains.

[the other mike]

You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.

We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?

Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?

It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?

Yes, it will.

Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.

That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles. And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.

This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down. Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi. Heck, remember when it was first announced? The Internet does not forget.

The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​

• Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
• Total Current Cost: $52-million
• Travel Speed: 155 mph
• Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour
• Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
• Projected Stops: McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.

How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas

A Las Vegas City Council meeting declared that the Loop would use autonomous Tesla vehicles that will run north under Las Vegas Boulevard.

vegasexperience.com

155 miles per hour! 4,000 passengers per hour! The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world! Completely autonomous vehicles!

Uhhh, no. It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.

This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism. It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, it still does not exist.

It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.

California was the worst place to attempt it.
The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego.

Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.

Why? There isn't enough traffic to support that. The only place where a bullet train has a chance is along the NY to DC line. No other place in the USA can support it. And right now, thanks to the covid bullshit, and the exodus from NY, even that line is no longer supportable. Just because you can build something, doesn't mean you SHOULD build something.

True. Chicago to NYC too.
Keeping in mind, these ideas should have been implemented decades ago, when it was more feasible--many routes could have been constructed alongside new Interstates, etc....Japan's had them since the 90's.

Nope, there isn't enough traffic to warrant a Chicago NYC route either. It is extremely expensive to run high speed trains. There are TWO, worldwide, that can pay for themselves. TWO. If you can't pay for yourself, then you shouldn't be built.

There are 241 flights to and from Chicago and NY daily.
You want to guess the I-80 traffic daily not counting 18-wheelers ?

 

[the other mike]

You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.

We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?

Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?

It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?

Yes, it will.

Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.

That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles. And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.

This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down. Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi. Heck, remember when it was first announced? The Internet does not forget.

The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​

• Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
• Total Current Cost: $52-million
• Travel Speed: 155 mph
• Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour
• Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
• Projected Stops: McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.

How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas

A Las Vegas City Council meeting declared that the Loop would use autonomous Tesla vehicles that will run north under Las Vegas Boulevard.

vegasexperience.com

155 miles per hour! 4,000 passengers per hour! The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world! Completely autonomous vehicles!

Uhhh, no. It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.

This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism. It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, it still does not exist.

It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.

California was the worst place to attempt it.
The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego.

Atlanta to Miami would be packed every day.

Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.

No express train from DC to Boston would be possible because people would want to get off along the way and these people would not travel making the line dumb

People hate airports.

 

[Dusty]

You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.

We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?

Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?

It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?

Yes, it will.

Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.

That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles. And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.

This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down. Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi. Heck, remember when it was first announced? The Internet does not forget.

The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​

• Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
• Total Current Cost: $52-million
• Travel Speed: 155 mph
• Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour
• Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
• Projected Stops: McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.

How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas

A Las Vegas City Council meeting declared that the Loop would use autonomous Tesla vehicles that will run north under Las Vegas Boulevard.

vegasexperience.com

155 miles per hour! 4,000 passengers per hour! The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world! Completely autonomous vehicles!

Uhhh, no. It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.

This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism. It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, it still does not exist.

It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.

California was the worst place to attempt it.
The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego.

Atlanta to Miami would be packed every day.

Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.

No express train from DC to Boston would be possible because people would want to get off along the way and these people would not travel making the line dumb

People hate airports.

But airports can go to another airport without a trillion dollar rail lines that are actually logistically and financially impossible.

 

[Mushroom]

You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.

We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?

Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?

It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?

Yes, it will.

Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.

That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles. And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.

This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down. Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi. Heck, remember when it was first announced? The Internet does not forget.

The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​

• Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
• Total Current Cost: $52-million
• Travel Speed: 155 mph
• Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour
• Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
• Projected Stops: McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.

How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas

A Las Vegas City Council meeting declared that the Loop would use autonomous Tesla vehicles that will run north under Las Vegas Boulevard.

vegasexperience.com

155 miles per hour! 4,000 passengers per hour! The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world! Completely autonomous vehicles!

Uhhh, no. It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.

This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism. It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, it still does not exist.

It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.

buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA. So, 65 miles away from LA. And almost 80 miles from SF. Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.

Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.

As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades. And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle. And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains. There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them. And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it. In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.

In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South. The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does. It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level. That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101. This is the same route that passenger trains take.

But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley. Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often? It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains. No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more). This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.

Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take. The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".

And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like. A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it. But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance. The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour. And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.

And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one. "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?" And over a decade later, there is still no solution. The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there. Well, obviously that will never happen. And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.

Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really. There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains. Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal. But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades. Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.

In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years. Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem. But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks). But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.

And also as a disaster system. This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years. The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years). The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal. They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.

But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system. It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system. We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?

 

[Dusty]

You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.

We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?

Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?

It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?

Yes, it will.

Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.

That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles. And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.

This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down. Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi. Heck, remember when it was first announced? The Internet does not forget.

The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​

• Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
• Total Current Cost: $52-million
• Travel Speed: 155 mph
• Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour
• Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
• Projected Stops: McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.

How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas

A Las Vegas City Council meeting declared that the Loop would use autonomous Tesla vehicles that will run north under Las Vegas Boulevard.

vegasexperience.com

155 miles per hour! 4,000 passengers per hour! The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world! Completely autonomous vehicles!

Uhhh, no. It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.

This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism. It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, it still does not exist.

It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.

buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA. So, 65 miles away from LA. And almost 80 miles from SF. Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.

Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.

As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades. And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle. And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains. There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them. And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it. In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.

In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South. The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does. It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level. That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101. This is the same route that passenger trains take.

But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley. Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often? It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains. No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more). This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.

Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take. The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".

And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like. A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it. But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance. The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour. And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.

And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one. "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?" And over a decade later, there is still no solution. The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there. Well, obviously that will never happen. And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.

Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really. There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains. Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal. But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades. Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.

In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years. Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem. But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks). But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.

And also as a disaster system. This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years. The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years). The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal. They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.

But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system. It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system. We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?

Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people. Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built. However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead

 

[Unkotare]

You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.

We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?

Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?

It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?

You do love your false equivalencies.

 

[Mushroom]

You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.

We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?

Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?

It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?

Yes, it will.

Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.

That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles. And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.

This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down. Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi. Heck, remember when it was first announced? The Internet does not forget.

The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​

• Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
• Total Current Cost: $52-million
• Travel Speed: 155 mph
• Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour
• Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
• Projected Stops: McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.

How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas

A Las Vegas City Council meeting declared that the Loop would use autonomous Tesla vehicles that will run north under Las Vegas Boulevard.

vegasexperience.com

155 miles per hour! 4,000 passengers per hour! The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world! Completely autonomous vehicles!

Uhhh, no. It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.

This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism. It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, it still does not exist.

It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.

buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA. So, 65 miles away from LA. And almost 80 miles from SF. Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.

Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.

As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades. And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle. And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains. There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them. And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it. In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.

In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South. The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does. It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level. That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101. This is the same route that passenger trains take.

But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley. Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often? It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains. No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more). This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.

Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take. The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".

And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like. A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it. But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance. The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour. And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.

And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one. "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?" And over a decade later, there is still no solution. The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there. Well, obviously that will never happen. And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.

Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really. There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains. Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal. But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades. Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.

In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years. Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem. But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks). But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.

And also as a disaster system. This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years. The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years). The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal. They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.

But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system. It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system. We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?

Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people. Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built. However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead

What is a "bullet train"? Do you even know what it is?

I think the biggest problem is that you really have no idea what "High Speed Rail" is.

Here is the amazing thing, as much as you are screaming that it will never work, we have been using it in the US for over 20 years!

The "Acela Express" is the line that runs from Boston to New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC. Average speed of 150 mph, over 450 miles of track, and carries over 3.5 million passengers per year.

You really have no idea what is even being discussed. I have especially been laughing as for ages you have been screaming it would "never work in the US", completely oblivious it has already been in place for decades.

 

[Flash]

I don't give a shit if we have fast trains or not.

I would much rather see the government work on bringing down inflation, reducing the cost of energy, sealing the border and lowering taxes than I care about building a fucking fast train.

If somebody thinks they can make a profit building and operating one then fine. Go for it Sport. However, we sure as hell don't need the filthy ass government giving them my tax money to do it.

 

[Blues Man]

You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.

We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?

Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?

It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?

Yes, it will.

Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.

That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles. And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.

This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down. Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi. Heck, remember when it was first announced? The Internet does not forget.

The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​

• Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
• Total Current Cost: $52-million
• Travel Speed: 155 mph
• Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour
• Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
• Projected Stops: McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.

How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas

A Las Vegas City Council meeting declared that the Loop would use autonomous Tesla vehicles that will run north under Las Vegas Boulevard.

vegasexperience.com

155 miles per hour! 4,000 passengers per hour! The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world! Completely autonomous vehicles!

Uhhh, no. It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.

This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism. It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, it still does not exist.

It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.

California was the worst place to attempt it.
The first high speed line should run between Dallas and San Antonio. Logistically it can be done more easily and affordably in open terrain than say DC to Boston or SF to San Diego.

Atlanta to Miami would be packed every day.

Gasoline is $6 (US) a gallon in Europe and before long it will be that much here and probably $10 there.

No express train from DC to Boston would be possible because people would want to get off along the way and these people would not travel making the line dumb

People hate airports.

People hate trains more

 

[the other mike]

People hate trains more

Where ?

 

[Dusty]

You still haven't explained why we should build something that isn't needed.

We build a lot of things that aren't needed.
The airlines are all in debt...who's subsidizing them ?

Soooo, you want to cause all sorts of environmental destruction, waste trillions of dollars, all because the airlines got fucked over by the government?

It wouldn't cost TRILLIONS, first of all, but since you guys like pulling that number out of your asses, why do you never bitch when it's the Pentagon budget ? Or subsidies for nuclear plants that NEVER turn a profit, or when BP or Exxon walk from environmental accountabilty. ?

Yes, it will.

Now to put it into perspective, the California Bullet Train now under construction has already cost over $100 billion, and is expected to if ever completed cost in the area of $500 billion to just go from LA to San Francisco.

That is half a trillion dollars, for a train to go 400 miles. And not even a "hyperloop", just a bullet train like they have been making for decades.

This is where Elron Musk and his fantasy breaks down. Hell, they just finished for over $50 million a slow moving taxi. Heck, remember when it was first announced? The Internet does not forget.

The Vegas Loop – Quick Facts​

• Includes the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop (LVCC Loop)
• Total Current Cost: $52-million
• Travel Speed: 155 mph
• Estimated Capacity: 4,000 passengers per hour
• Completion Date: Unknown, but the LVCC Loop is expected to debut January 2021
• Projected Stops: McCarran International Airport, Allegiant Stadium, Las Vegas Convention Center, Fremont Street Experience, Slotzilla and Garage Mahal at Circa.

How The Boring Company’s Vegas Loop Will Change Downtown Las Vegas

A Las Vegas City Council meeting declared that the Loop would use autonomous Tesla vehicles that will run north under Las Vegas Boulevard.

vegasexperience.com

155 miles per hour! 4,000 passengers per hour! The greatest thing ever, that will revolutionize the world! Completely autonomous vehicles!

Uhhh, no. It is taxi drivers going at slow speed in a tunnel, 3 passengers at a time.

This is the problem, you are believing all of the hype without applying logic and reasoning, and at least a healthy dose of skepticism. It will cost a great many trillion dollars, because even after all of the money poured into it, it still does not exist.

It exists as much as the flying wing passenger jets that were promised 60 years ago.

buuuut the train doesn't even go from LA to San Fran, it goes from Lancaster/Palmdale, to Tracy CA. So, 65 miles away from LA. And almost 80 miles from SF. Like I said, from nowhere, TO nowhere.

Actually, they don't even know how to get it to Palmdale.

As I have said many times, I have been watching this for decades. And for the train to get into the LA area, it has to overcome a huge obstacle. And that is traversing the Tehachapi Mountains. There is no way to avoid that, you must go over them. And they still have absolutely no plan on how they are going to do it. In other words, it will never even get past Bakersfield.

In California, there are only 2 ways to take a train from North to South. The one used by passenger trains is the "Coastal Route", which the Surfliner does. It hugs the ocean for most of the trip, never going very far above sea level. That is why the first major transit route followed the old Spanish Trail, then US 101. This is the same route that passenger trains take.

But then, there is still a problem getting from there to the Central Valley. Why do you think I have been mentioning "topography" so damned often? It is not because I like the word, it is because I am really aware of the topography of California, and what exactly that means for trains. No matter what, to get in and out of LA and the San Francisco area you need to cross mountain ranges (most times 2 or more). This can not be avoided, and it is just as much of an engineering challenge today as it was 150 years ago.

Now the Coastal Route is the only way passenger trains take. The other route is the "Tehachapi Loop".

And it is exactly what it sounds and looks like. A long, snaking train route at the summit of the pass so that trains can traverse it. But not passenger trains, they only take it when the coastal route is closed for repairs or maintenance. The max speed of the Loop is 35 miles per hour. And it is heavily traveled by freight trains, so is never used for passenger ones unless there is no other choice.

And from when they first started this project, my main question has always been the same one. "How are they going to take this train into the LA basin?" And over a decade later, there is still no solution. The closest one I heard so far basically involved condemning and destroying most of the city of Tehachapi (including the Hospital and High School), and building it there. Well, obviously that will never happen. And other than that, there is still no plan on how to get it the rest of the way to LA.

Now the part from the Antelope Valley to LA is not that big of a deal really. There is only a single low pass to get through (around Acton), and there is already existing tracks that can be upgraded to support 100 mph trains. Studies been done there long ago, back when the plan was for much of the Metrolink had that as a long term goal. But here is the thing, prior to Moonbeam taking it over, that was what they had been discussing in areas like LA and Sacramento for decades. Not a unified "Bullet Train" system like is normally seen in the world, but selectively upgrading existing lines that could support trains from 100-150 mph with that as demand called for it.

In the 1990's, LA Metrolink released a map of all their proposals, with a timeframe of like 50 years. Mostly trains with a speed of 100 mph, to go to and from selected outlying areas as a way to decrease the congestion that was already a problem. But one line at a time, starting with the ones that had the most ridership, but was already capping out because most were capped at 55-60 mph because of other factors (the trains themselves and the tracks). But never upgrading all of them, just the ones that were showing that they had the demand.

And also as a disaster system. This has been shown in California at least three times in the last 50 years. The 1971, 1989, and 1994 earthquakes devastated parts of that state, and in all three, trains were the only way to get around for months (or years). The I-5/California 14 interchange was completely destroyed twice, and at that time the Palmdale Metrolink route was only a proposal. They had it running within a week, and ridership has only grown over the decades.

But the problem is that people do not understand that the solution does not have to be what some propose, and a huge monolithic single purpose system. It can be done in segments, and not even with the idea of tying them all together into a single system. We sure as hell never built any of our other infrastructure that way, why should it be done this time?

Again bullet trains are impossible from the standpoint of moving people. Sure the yare technically feasible but they are logistically impossible because too many rails would need to be built. However if you want to bust your piggy bank go ahead

What is a "bullet train"? Do you even know what it is?

I think the biggest problem is that you really have no idea what "High Speed Rail" is.

Here is the amazing thing, as much as you are screaming that it will never work, we have been using it in the US for over 20 years!

The "Acela Express" is the line that runs from Boston to New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and DC. Average speed of 150 mph, over 450 miles of track, and carries over 3.5 million passengers per year.

You really have no idea what is even being discussed. I have especially been laughing as for ages you have been screaming it would "never work in the US", completely oblivious it has already been in place for decades.

There is no high speed rail in the USA because the concept can not work in the USA. It works on long distances between European countries that are dumb enough to waste money on a failed system. As for bullet trains perhaps you ought to educate yourself. And use less than 3 million words per post as this demonstrates that you can not articulate properly. So please say more with less

 

[Dusty]

People hate trains more

Where ?
View attachment 507391

LOL that would cost 5 to 10 billion dollars per mile to build, not including the toy train

 

[Concerned American]

China has the world’s fastest and largest high-speed rail network — more than 19,000 miles, the vast majority of which was built in the past decade. Japan’s bullet trains can reach nearly 200 miles per hour and date to the 1960s. They have moved more than 9 billion people without a single passenger causality. France began service of the high-speed TGV train in 1981 and the rest of Europe quickly followed.

But the U.S. has no true high-speed trains, aside from sections of Amtrak’s Acela line in the Northeast Corridor. The Acela can reach 150 mph for only 34 miles of its 457-mile span. Its average speed between New York and Boston is about 65 mph. California’s high-speed rail system is under construction, but whether it will ever get completed as intended is uncertain.



Sadly, the US is falling light years behind China.

That’s because we have superior freeways and Americans like being independent and free to drive their own cars. Not to mention trains never take you to and from you beginning and end destination, you always need a second mode of transportation just to get to the train.

Europe has a so called good high speed train system, yet it still sucks and is insanely expensive. Personally I’ve used the train a few times and in some specific cases is good to use, but usually it’s far faster and cheaper to just drive or fly to your destination.

Not to mention stops along the way to pick up passengers.
At least with a plane nonstops are available.

The concept of a non-stop train has been around for awhile. I guess the Chinese are working on this.

 

[Dusty]

Angelo Actually, California is one of the best in many ways.

Still lots of open land between the cities. And a major corridor to build it along. But there are also topological features to take into consideration, and they actually started building it without considering how they will overcome them. Kind of like trying to build the Brooklyn Bridge, and only as they were half way through realizing there is a large difference in elevation between the two sides. Or half way through building the Golden Gate Bridge suddenly going "Gee, there is a huge fort on the South side, how are we going to get past that?"

True, California is doing it all wrong, but the challenges of even a 400 mile bullet train are nothing compared to that of the mythical Hyperloop. Might as well try and say the transit solution of the future is going to be flying unicorns, that once at the station can poop flavored ice cream.

Shut up mushroom, no one is building your fantasy island train

 

[the other mike]

People hate trains more

Where ?
View attachment 507391

LOL that would cost 5 to 10 billion dollars per mile to build, not including the toy train

You think this is a photoshop ??
Look at the people down there dumbass.
The cost of a day in Iraq per mile.

 

[the other mike]

Keep on funnin, meatheads.
America is almost a third world country.

 

[Dusty]

People hate trains more

Where ?
View attachment 507391

LOL that would cost 5 to 10 billion dollars per mile to build, not including the toy train

You think this is a photoshop ??
Look at the people down there dumbass.
The cost of a day in Iraq per mile.

LOL. Come back and post here when it happens

 

[Markle]

Wow. We beat Czech Republic.
View attachment 507076

 

[the other mike]

People hate trains more

Where ?
View attachment 507391

LOL that would cost 5 to 10 billion dollars per mile to build, not including the toy train

You think this is a photoshop ??
Look at the people down there dumbass.
The cost of a day in Iraq per mile.

LOL. Come back and post here when it happens

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Angelo
Do you know how rare those people are?
I know of one person who has multiple homes in different countries...wait,make that two.
One of my cousins has homes in Canada and one in Barbados.
And the other my Wifes ex boss who has homes in Texas and Mexico.