This country ranks No. 1 for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (its not America)

[John Shaw]

What on God's green Earth are you talking about, boyo? All I said was we are not the most free country on Earth. Wealth disparity here is increasing and social mobility is declining. That pretty much indicates the opposite of freedom.

No, it isn't the freest nation on Earth, if we take those talking points into account. It never will be until you have as much money as the millionaire down the street. As for social mobility, that is for the individual to determine. Don't fault the government for the inability of the individual to mobilize himself socially.

I wasn't talking about the government in that particular instance, IIRC.

Well then, what are you referring to?

Freedom. Or a lack of it.

How are you not free? Or do we gauge freedom off of polls and rankings now?

Freedom to choose your way in life. To make it big in business or live in your pajamas if you so choose.

America is still pretty free, all things considered ... but it's becoming increasingly difficult for people to afford school, and even once they're done, the value of their degree is considerably less than it would've been in previous decades. That combined with massive income inequality means the rich will keep getting richer ... and the poor will stay poor. And when you're poor, America has a lot less freedom to offer you.

 

[JGalt]

Let's see: You can own firearms in Norway, but you have to obtain an ownership license. All firearms have to be locked up in a gun safe and get this: The police are allowed to make a home inspection of the safe. You also have to have a special permit to store more than 10,000 rounds. I can think of at least four of my own firearms that I have more than 10k rounds for.

No thanks. My Second Amendment makes me more free than any Norwegian.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

This country ranks No. 1 for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (its not America)
This country ranks No. 1 for ‘life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness’ (it’s not America)

Norway ranked the No. 1 place for happiness and personal freedom, according to an analysis of three separate studies on life expectancy by the World Bank, on civil liberties from Freedom House, a New York-based nonprofit that conducts research on advocacy and democracy, on happiness from the Sustainable Development Solutions Network (SDSN), a group linked to the United Nations, and on rule of law from the World Justice Project, a Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit.

...

The U.S. has seen its happiness slide happiness over the last decade. In 2007, it ranked No. 3 among the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development countries. Last year, it was 19th, down from 13th the year before. “The predominant political discourse in the United States is aimed at raising economic growth, with the goal of restoring the American Dream and the happiness that is supposed to accompany it. But the data show conclusively that this is the wrong approach,” the report concluded.

For those interviewed in the report, perception is reality. At least, as far as their happiness is concerned and, experts say, the divisive political climate likely hasn’t helped. “The United States can and should raise happiness by addressing America’s multi-faceted social crisis — rising inequality, corruption, isolation, and distrust — rather than focusing exclusively or even mainly on economic growth, especially since the concrete proposals along these lines would exacerbate rather than ameliorate the deepening social crisis,” the report said.

...

The U.S showed less social support, less sense of personal freedom, lower donations, and more perceived corruption of government and business, it said. “America’s crisis is, in short, a social crisis, not an economic crisis… Almost all of the policy discourse in Washington, D.C. centers on naïve attempts to raise the economic growth rate, as if a higher growth rate would somehow heal the deepening divisions and angst in American society. This kind of growth-only agenda is doubly wrong-headed.”

Social democracies lead the world!!! High political freedom, strong safetynet, educated population and high GDP per capita!

WTF does America have??? Low political freedom, weak safetynet that a certain party wants to do away with all together and to hell with the suffering poor, one of the lowest in education but the religious like it that way and a dropping GDP per capita.

America is becoming a second world country.

And the social welfare state of Norway...cannot be sustained....

Government Health Care Horror Stories from Norway

I'll admit this: if, like me, you're a self-employed person with a marginal income, the Norwegian system is, in many ways, a boon – as long as you're careful not to get anything much more serious than a cold or flu.

Doctors' visits are cheap; hospitalization is free. But you get what you pay for. There are excellent doctors in Norway – but there are also mediocrities and outright incompetents who in the U.S. would have been stripped of their licenses long ago. The fact is that while the ubiquity of frivolous malpractice lawsuits in the U.S. has been a disgrace, the inability of Norwegians to sue doctors or hospitals even in the most egregious of circumstances is even more of a disgrace.

Physicians who in the U.S. would be dragged into court are, under the Norwegian system, reported to a local board consisting of their own colleagues – who are also, not infrequently, their longtime friends.

(The government health system's own website puts it this way: if you suspect malpractice, you have the right to “ask the Norwegian Board of Health Supervision in your county to evaluate” your claims.)

As a result, doctors who should be forcibly retired, if not incarcerated, end up with a slap on the wrist. When patients are awarded financial damages, the sums – paid by the state, not the doctor – are insultingly small.
------------

Take the case of Peter Franks, whose doctor sent him home twice despite a tennis-ball-sized lump in his chest that was oozing blood and pus – and that turned out to be a cancer that was diagnosed too late to save his life. Apropos of Franks's case, a jurist who specializes in patients' rights lamented that the Norwegian health-care system responds to sky-high malpractice figures “with a shrug,” and the dying Franks himself pronounced last year that “the responsibility for malpractice has been pulverized in Norway,” saying that “if I could have sued the doctor, I would have. Other doctors would have read about the lawsuit in the newspaper. Then they would have taken greater care to avoid making such a mistake themselves. But doctors in Norway don't have to take responsibility for their mistakes. The state does it.” After a three-year legal struggle, Franks was awarded 2.7 million kroner by the Norwegian government – about half a million dollars.

Another aspect of Norway's guild-like health-care system is that although the country suffers from a severe deficit of doctors, nurses, and midwives, the medical establishment makes it next to impossible for highly qualified foreign members of these professions to get certified to practice in Norway. The daughter of a friend of mine got a nursing degree at the University of North Dakota in 2009 but, as reported last Friday by NRK, is working in Seattle because the Norwegian authorities in charge of these matters – who have refused to be interviewed on this subject by NRK – have stubbornly denied her a license. Why? My guess is that the answer has a lot to do with three things: competence, competition, and control. If there were a surplus of doctors and nurses instead of a shortage, the good ones would drive out the bad. Plainly, such a situation must be avoided at all costs – including the cost of human lives.

Then there's the waiting lists. At the beginning of 2012, over 281,000 patients in Norway, out of a population of five million, were awaiting treatment for some medical problem or other. Bureaucratic absurdities run rampant, as exemplified by thisAftenposten story from earlier this year:

You should concentrate on Americas Healthcare System literally one of the worst and unfair in the world.

You have millions of people with no Health Insurance and you have elderly Americans who have to choose between buying food or paying for their over priced medication which is artificially inflated by your corrupt Pharmaceutical Companies who pay your corrupt politicians via their Lobbying Groups not to do anything to lower the prices of medications so they can be more affordable to the most vulnerable of American citizens.

Your Healthcare System was ranked No. 37 in the world by the WHO, now that's something to be proud of isn't it, No. 37 and Norway who you trashing and are TOTALLY IGNORANT about probably never having ventured further than your basement is ranked No. 11.

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^^^^ Lol Costa Rica, Dominica, Chile and Morocco's Healthcare Systems are ranked higher than America's by the WHO.

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems

Maybe you should move.

I am not American and do not live in America, but as a European I have the right to educate Americans when they post horsecrap about things on my Continent and about nations on my Continent that they do know have any idea what they are posting or babbling. You have 2aGuy posting gibberish from an American publication I have never heard of that is publishing gibberish about the Norwegian Healthcare System....and I repeat Norway are ranked No. 11 on the WHO list you American's are ranked No. 37, so concentrate on fixing your CRAP Healthcare System and stop posting CRAP about a nation who's Health System is ranked 26 places higher than yours.

In general I like 2aGuy and we often agree about many things, but on this issue he is 100% incorrect and I offer constructive criticism in the hope he can learn something from what I posted.

"Maybe you should move."

Maybe you should just STFU instead.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Religious fascism that stomps out all personal freedom isn't freedom.

You bastards think that removing any help for the poor, protection for small business development and throwing the poor in prison is any kind of solution. How nuts.

 

[blackhawk]

Good so all the people who swore they would leave the country if Trump was elected have found their paradise have a nice flight and remember we can't miss you until you leave.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Religion the enemy of information. Why has it not all stand trial to the crimes it has produced through influence and encouraging the harming of other humans to uphold some ideology? It's time to shed these superstitions so we can progress and grow up as a species.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Let's see: You can own firearms in Norway, but you have to obtain an ownership license. All firearms have to be locked up in a gun safe and get this: The police are allowed to make a home inspection of the safe. You also have to have a special permit to store more than 10,000 rounds. I can think of at least four of my own firearms that I have more than 10k rounds for.

No thanks. My Second Amendment makes me more free than any Norwegian.

Of course there is the situation that Norway is less violent a nation than America, so you better nail down your Second Amendment because you know the Leftists and assorted Activist Judges are working to find some way to start confiscating your guns.

 

[shockedcanadian]

I can't help but think that these polls are full of shyte. International analysis by those trying to undermine America and they always present other nations as top dog and most certainly they will present America as "falling" after Obama left office, it's inaccurate.

Here is how I see it, forget these International polls and fables, determine these polls by those who "vote with their feet". In other words, where does everyone want to be? America or Europe?

Here is another big tell, how many people from 1st World Nations leave for America for even better opportunities? You don't see Americans lining up to head to Ireland, but you sure know that many from Ireland want to go to America. How many Canadians flock to California alone compared to vice versa? It's not even close.

Many of these rankings are relative. Norway might be a fine country to visit. However, if one wants to stake their claim and pursue their ambitions, they have to consider heading to America, no question.

 

[TemplarKormac]

No, it isn't the freest nation on Earth, if we take those talking points into account. It never will be until you have as much money as the millionaire down the street. As for social mobility, that is for the individual to determine. Don't fault the government for the inability of the individual to mobilize himself socially.

I wasn't talking about the government in that particular instance, IIRC.

Well then, what are you referring to?

Freedom. Or a lack of it.

How are you not free? Or do we gauge freedom off of polls and rankings now?

Freedom to choose your way in life. To make it big in business or live in your pajamas if you so choose.

America is still pretty free, all things considered ... but it's becoming increasingly difficult for people to afford school, and even once they're done, the value of their degree is considerably less than it would've been in previous decades. That combined with massive income inequality means the rich will keep getting richer ... and the poor will stay poor. And when you're poor, America has a lot less freedom to offer you.

You can't expect to have those things given to you on a silver platter. Though the ultimate freedom you have is that of being able to dictate your own destiny. How difficult it is to do depends on you.

Curious, are you arguing for socialism?

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Religious fascism that stomps out all personal freedom isn't freedom.

You bastards think that removing any help for the poor, protection for small business development and throwing the poor in prison is any kind of solution. How nuts.

"Religious fascism that stomps out all personal freedom isn't freedom."

Which is why you need to stop Importing more Kebabs into America, the only religious Fascism that would wipe out basically all personal freedoms is Islam, which is not just a religion but also has a strong political element to it.

Matthew you are in the wrong arena thinking it's Christians who are the enemy of personal freedom, it's Islam the 7th Century Death Cult that is the enemy of personal freedom.

 

[John Shaw]

I wasn't talking about the government in that particular instance, IIRC.

Well then, what are you referring to?

Freedom. Or a lack of it.

How are you not free? Or do we gauge freedom off of polls and rankings now?

Freedom to choose your way in life. To make it big in business or live in your pajamas if you so choose.

America is still pretty free, all things considered ... but it's becoming increasingly difficult for people to afford school, and even once they're done, the value of their degree is considerably less than it would've been in previous decades. That combined with massive income inequality means the rich will keep getting richer ... and the poor will stay poor. And when you're poor, America has a lot less freedom to offer you.

You can't expect to have those things given to you on a silver platter. Though the ultimate freedom you have is that of being able to dictate your own destiny. How difficult it is to do depends on you.

Curious, are you arguing for socialism?

I'm not arguing for anything. I'm simply describing the current situation.

This is the problem with this board; everyone assumes you have some kind of angle. I don't. I loathe ideology and ascribe to none, except for an interest in the truth. So please, stop trying to put me in a box.

It's a lot HARDER to move up if you're starting out poor. You don't have the resources available to you that a rich person has. So chances are, you're going to stay poor, or move into the middle class at best.

 

[frigidweirdo]

This country ranks No. 1 for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (its not America)
This country ranks No. 1 for ‘life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness’ (it’s not America)

Norway ranked the No. 1 place for happiness and personal freedom, according to an analysis of three separate studies on life expectancy by the World Bank, on civil liberties from Freedom House, a New York-based nonprofit that conducts research on advocacy and democracy, on happiness from the Sustainable Development Solutions Network (SDSN), a group linked to the United Nations, and on rule of law from the World Justice Project, a Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit.

...

The U.S. has seen its happiness slide happiness over the last decade. In 2007, it ranked No. 3 among the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development countries. Last year, it was 19th, down from 13th the year before. “The predominant political discourse in the United States is aimed at raising economic growth, with the goal of restoring the American Dream and the happiness that is supposed to accompany it. But the data show conclusively that this is the wrong approach,” the report concluded.

For those interviewed in the report, perception is reality. At least, as far as their happiness is concerned and, experts say, the divisive political climate likely hasn’t helped. “The United States can and should raise happiness by addressing America’s multi-faceted social crisis — rising inequality, corruption, isolation, and distrust — rather than focusing exclusively or even mainly on economic growth, especially since the concrete proposals along these lines would exacerbate rather than ameliorate the deepening social crisis,” the report said.

...

The U.S showed less social support, less sense of personal freedom, lower donations, and more perceived corruption of government and business, it said. “America’s crisis is, in short, a social crisis, not an economic crisis… Almost all of the policy discourse in Washington, D.C. centers on naïve attempts to raise the economic growth rate, as if a higher growth rate would somehow heal the deepening divisions and angst in American society. This kind of growth-only agenda is doubly wrong-headed.”

Social democracies lead the world!!! High political freedom, strong safetynet, educated population and high GDP per capita!

WTF does America have??? Low political freedom, weak safetynet that a certain party wants to do away with all together and to hell with the suffering poor, one of the lowest in education but the religious like it that way and a dropping GDP per capita.

America is becoming a second world country.

Comparing Norway to America is idiotic considering America is made up of many races and creeds, Norway, not so much.

What does that have to do with anything?

 

[frigidweirdo]

.America is becoming a second world country.

Then leave. I'll pay for your ticket, so long as you leave your passport and citizenship at the border.

This argument gets used by right wingers all the time. It's fucking infantile.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Good so all the people who swore they would leave the country if Trump was elected have found their paradise have a nice flight and remember we can't miss you until you leave.

We do not want any of the American SJWs here on our Continent, they should go to Canada instead, Canada is being run by a SJW faggot Justin Trudeau so that is the paradise nation for them.

 

[JGalt]

Let's see: You can own firearms in Norway, but you have to obtain an ownership license. All firearms have to be locked up in a gun safe and get this: The police are allowed to make a home inspection of the safe. You also have to have a special permit to store more than 10,000 rounds. I can think of at least four of my own firearms that I have more than 10k rounds for.

No thanks. My Second Amendment makes me more free than any Norwegian.

Of course there is the situation that Norway is less violent a nation than America, so you better nail down your Second Amendment because you know the Leftists and assorted Activist Judges are working to find some way to start confiscating your guns.

They tried, and continue to keep trying. But if they couldn't do that under Obama, who was the most liberal anti-gun President we've ever had, it's just not going to happen. I mean aside from a full-blown socialist takeover, which is why we have guns to prevent from happening. Those old dead white guys who wrote our constitution were some very smart fellers.

 

[blackhawk]

Good so all the people who swore they would leave the country if Trump was elected have found their paradise have a nice flight and remember we can't miss you until you leave.

We do not want any of the American SJWs here on our Continent, they should go to Canada instead, Canada is being run by a SJW faggot Justin Trudeau so that is the paradise nation for them.

I don’t care where they go as long as they go like they said they would.

 

[JGalt]

Good so all the people who swore they would leave the country if Trump was elected have found their paradise have a nice flight and remember we can't miss you until you leave.

We do not want any of the American SJWs here on our Continent, they should go to Canada instead, Canada is being run by a SJW faggot Justin Trudeau so that is the paradise nation for them.

Ouch!

 

[Lewdog]

This country ranks No. 1 for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (its not America)
This country ranks No. 1 for ‘life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness’ (it’s not America)

Norway ranked the No. 1 place for happiness and personal freedom, according to an analysis of three separate studies on life expectancy by the World Bank, on civil liberties from Freedom House, a New York-based nonprofit that conducts research on advocacy and democracy, on happiness from the Sustainable Development Solutions Network (SDSN), a group linked to the United Nations, and on rule of law from the World Justice Project, a Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit.

...

The U.S. has seen its happiness slide happiness over the last decade. In 2007, it ranked No. 3 among the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development countries. Last year, it was 19th, down from 13th the year before. “The predominant political discourse in the United States is aimed at raising economic growth, with the goal of restoring the American Dream and the happiness that is supposed to accompany it. But the data show conclusively that this is the wrong approach,” the report concluded.

For those interviewed in the report, perception is reality. At least, as far as their happiness is concerned and, experts say, the divisive political climate likely hasn’t helped. “The United States can and should raise happiness by addressing America’s multi-faceted social crisis — rising inequality, corruption, isolation, and distrust — rather than focusing exclusively or even mainly on economic growth, especially since the concrete proposals along these lines would exacerbate rather than ameliorate the deepening social crisis,” the report said.

...

The U.S showed less social support, less sense of personal freedom, lower donations, and more perceived corruption of government and business, it said. “America’s crisis is, in short, a social crisis, not an economic crisis… Almost all of the policy discourse in Washington, D.C. centers on naïve attempts to raise the economic growth rate, as if a higher growth rate would somehow heal the deepening divisions and angst in American society. This kind of growth-only agenda is doubly wrong-headed.”

Social democracies lead the world!!! High political freedom, strong safetynet, educated population and high GDP per capita!

WTF does America have??? Low political freedom, weak safetynet that a certain party wants to do away with all together and to hell with the suffering poor, one of the lowest in education but the religious like it that way and a dropping GDP per capita.

America is becoming a second world country.

Norway is sitting on top of an ocean of oil. That's the only way welfare states can pay for all the promises they make. Any other circumstance puts you on the road to bankruptcy.

Basing an economy only on oil doesn't work, ask Venezuela. Other countries with more diverse economies can simply raise their own production of oil, drive down the price, and fuck those oil-dependent countries into chaos... like what the U.S. did to Chavez and Venezuela.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Let's see: You can own firearms in Norway, but you have to obtain an ownership license. All firearms have to be locked up in a gun safe and get this: The police are allowed to make a home inspection of the safe. You also have to have a special permit to store more than 10,000 rounds. I can think of at least four of my own firearms that I have more than 10k rounds for.

No thanks. My Second Amendment makes me more free than any Norwegian.

Of course there is the situation that Norway is less violent a nation than America, so you better nail down your Second Amendment because you know the Leftists and assorted Activist Judges are working to find some way to start confiscating your guns.

They tried, and continue to keep trying. But if they couldn't do that under Obama, who was the most liberal anti-gun President we've ever had, it's just not going to happen. I mean aside from a full-blown socialist takeover, which is why we have guns to prevent from happening. Those old dead white guys who wrote our constitution were some very smart fellers.

"Those old dead white guys who wrote our constitution were some very smart fellers."

Yes they were and God Bless them, without them you would be completely fucked.

 

[cnm]

Comparing Norway to America is idiotic considering America is made up of many races and creeds, Norway, not so much.

So Americans are helpless to organise themselves. Helpless.