This is why we need a living wage

[Againsheila]

I wonder if you were a citizen of another country like Mexico for example, would you be one to justify that system also ?

Are you suggesting that people in other countries do not want more goods at a lower price?

Standard of living, is based on the ability to get goods at a lower price. Countries which subvert that system, often end up with lower standards of living.... obviously because if I have to pay twice as much for food, then I can't spend as much on other things. If I have to pay twice as much for a car, then I have less for other things... or I don't get the car.

This is true everywhere in the world. Yes, I would advocate the same everywhere.

No what I'm talking about is the style or types of systems that they have, in which creates the super rich and sadly for the masses mostly the super poor and/or poor.

Would you defend Mexico's system of government and their set up in that nation, in which is controlled by and run by whom again ? Now why is there so many coming across our southern border for work at such cheap pay for their labor, I mean if it is that they are in a nation that was run differently than that ?

Minimum wage should be an entrance pay.

A living wage should be based upon a structured pay grade system that is custom to the type businesses that are being operated individually.

A living wage should also be structured with a percentage paid on the successes beyond the flat rates that a company has set in their ladder pay structure, where as this gives employee's the incentive to pull harder and work smarter to make the company a complete sucess in the market place.

A company should be run as a family, and not some sort of hard nosed place where people go to feel as if they are some sort of modern day slaves instead of someone that is respected and appreciated for being there and on the job.

Minimum wage should have the same spending power it had when it was started and it should be indexed for inflation.

 

[beagle9]

Are you suggesting that people in other countries do not want more goods at a lower price?

Standard of living, is based on the ability to get goods at a lower price. Countries which subvert that system, often end up with lower standards of living.... obviously because if I have to pay twice as much for food, then I can't spend as much on other things. If I have to pay twice as much for a car, then I have less for other things... or I don't get the car.

This is true everywhere in the world. Yes, I would advocate the same everywhere.

No what I'm talking about is the style or types of systems that they have, in which creates the super rich and sadly for the masses mostly the super poor and/or poor.

Would you defend Mexico's system of government and their set up in that nation, in which is controlled by and run by whom again ? Now why is there so many coming across our southern border for work at such cheap pay for their labor, I mean if it is that they are in a nation that was run differently than that ?

Minimum wage should be an entrance pay.

A living wage should be based upon a structured pay grade system that is custom to the type businesses that are being operated individually.

A living wage should also be structured with a percentage paid on the successes beyond the flat rates that a company has set in their ladder pay structure, where as this gives employee's the incentive to pull harder and work smarter to make the company a complete sucess in the market place.

A company should be run as a family, and not some sort of hard nosed place where people go to feel as if they are some sort of modern day slaves instead of someone that is respected and appreciated for being there and on the job.

Minimum wage should have the same spending power it had when it was started and it should be indexed for inflation.

We need the dollar to be worth far more than what it's worth across the board right now in this nation, and just look at these gasoline prices, where as that would be a great place to start helping the situation out again. When a person goes to the store to fill up a 5 gal. jug for lawn mower gas, and it cost them almost $20.00, then Houston we have a serious problem in this nation. Talk a bout a dollar almost being rendered worthless, I mean wow. And this is just one area where the dollar is under attack for it's value going down the tubes for us. The rich man can deal with it, because he has enough of them dollars to just keep laying them down when someone demands it, but for most of us not so much anymore.

 

[jasonnfree]

This is a long thread so I don't know if anyone posted this link but I'll post it. FDR had to deal with republicans who never give a damn for anyone but those of extreme wealth. The same objections used by republicans in the 1930's are used today, except now the fat cats have convinced republican working stiffs that what's in the best interest of the romneys and coke brothers is also in the best interest of the working man.

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/07/f-d-r-makes-the-case-for-the-minimum-wage/

 

[priceless]

What happens is we end up with inflation due to too much money being in circulation. Personally, I am surprised it has not happened yet since the vast amount of money is now electronic. Probably the only reason it hasn't happened is that the capital markets are holding onto it. We have selective run away inflation on real estate, stocks, and college tuition. I am not sure if that is good or bad that the inflation is being contained to certain sectors.

Inflation is not really contained as much as you think. If you work for low to moderate income, you may be able to get by as long as your pay-raises keep up with inflation but if they don't, or if you end up on a fixed income by retiring, you are facing a time-limited retirement where you either have to die or come up with a new source of income after a couple decades.

It's ironic that the fiscal stimulus is supposed to help maintain the economy so that the poor and elderly can get access to needed income but the inflation that results is what ends up getting them. Presumably there are economic restructuring reforms that need to occur to prevent the need for fiscal stimulus and the inflation it causes, but the stimulus staves off the need for such reforms by bailing out those who fail to cut their spending to more sustainable levels.

 

[sameech]

Inflation is not really contained as much as you think. If you work for low to moderate income, you may be able to get by as long as your pay-raises keep up with inflation but if they don't, or if you end up on a fixed income by retiring, you are facing a time-limited retirement where you either have to die or come up with a new source of income after a couple decades.

It's ironic that the fiscal stimulus is supposed to help maintain the economy so that the poor and elderly can get access to needed income but the inflation that results is what ends up getting them. Presumably there are economic restructuring reforms that need to occur to prevent the need for fiscal stimulus and the inflation it causes, but the stimulus staves off the need for such reforms by bailing out those who fail to cut their spending to more sustainable levels.

This is part of the reason I am okay with not raising minimum wage. It is a matter of who you want to help, and who you are willing to screw.

 

[Andylusion]

I wonder if you were a citizen of another country like Mexico for example, would you be one to justify that system also ?

Are you suggesting that people in other countries do not want more goods at a lower price?

Standard of living, is based on the ability to get goods at a lower price. Countries which subvert that system, often end up with lower standards of living.... obviously because if I have to pay twice as much for food, then I can't spend as much on other things. If I have to pay twice as much for a car, then I have less for other things... or I don't get the car.

This is true everywhere in the world. Yes, I would advocate the same everywhere.

No what I'm talking about is the style or types of systems that they have, in which creates the super rich and sadly for the masses mostly the super poor and/or poor.

Would you defend Mexico's system of government and their set up in that nation, in which is controlled by and run by whom again ? Now why is there so many coming across our southern border for work at such cheap pay for their labor, I mean if it is that they are in a nation that was run differently than that ?

Minimum wage should be an entrance pay.

A living wage should be based upon a structured pay grade system that is custom to the type businesses that are being operated individually.

A living wage should also be structured with a percentage paid on the successes beyond the flat rates that a company has set in their ladder pay structure, where as this gives employee's the incentive to pull harder and work smarter to make the company a complete sucess in the market place.

A company should be run as a family, and not some sort of hard nosed place where people go to feel as if they are some sort of modern day slaves instead of someone that is respected and appreciated for being there and on the job.

No what I'm talking about is the style or types of systems that they have, in which creates the super rich and sadly for the masses mostly the super poor and/or poor.

I'm talking about Capitalism. Under Capitalism, people get rich because they make wise choices with their money. My parents are millionaires. I just found out over the weekend, it's now a fact. They have saved and invested, and have property, now over a net worth of one million. They were public school teachers. They own two homes, a lake house, a boat, stocks, mutual funds, and cold hard cash, plus some CDs.

The difference between them, and other people who are broke, is not that they had six figure incomes. They never had that. Combined they likely didn't have that. The reason they are millionaires, is because they were wise with money.

That's capitalism. Wise investments. Wise savings. Wise purchases.

If you are talking about some other system, where the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer because of government policy, instead of personal choice.... I'm against that.

But under Capitalism where the rich get richer by choice, and the poor get poorer by choice... Yeah I support that. I think if you are stupid, and blow all your money, you should be poor.

Would you defend Mexico's system of government and their set up in that nation, in which is controlled by and run by whom again ? Now why is there so many coming across our southern border for work at such cheap pay for their labor, I mean if it is that they are in a nation that was run differently than that ?

I have no idea what the setup of the Mexico system is. I will say that from what I've been hearing lately, the primary motivation for illegal immigration into the US, is because of cartel violence, and because of corruption of the police.

Neither of which is due to their economic system.

Minimum wage should be an entrance pay.

A living wage should be based upon a structured pay grade system that is custom to the type businesses that are being operated individually.

A living wage should also be structured with a percentage paid on the successes beyond the flat rates that a company has set in their ladder pay structure, where as this gives employee's the incentive to pull harder and work smarter to make the company a complete sucess in the market place.

The minimum wage *IS* an entrance pay. Not even fast food joints pay minimum wage to full time employees. It's usually only part time employees that have been there less than 6 months, that work for minimum wage.

While the idea of automatic pay grade increases based on increased productivity, seems nice and nifty in theory, in practice there are jobs where it's simply not possible to "pull harder and work smarter".

Whopper Flopping is not a job that can be 'improved upon'. You flip the burger over. Then you flip the burger over.

No amount of experience, or training, is going to make "flip the burger over" any better or worse. You can either do it..... or you can't.

There is no increased benefit that can be had, and thus no increased profit to the company. Thus there is no major increase in pay, other than perhaps the standard 15¢ yearly raise for showing up on time, and staying for your entire shift.

A company should be run as a family, and not some sort of hard nosed place where people go to feel as if they are some sort of modern day slaves instead of someone that is respected and appreciated for being there and on the job.

The only people that think companies should be run like a family, are people who have never run so much as a lemonade stand.

And the reason why is because customers don't care if your company is run "life a family". What customers care about, is does the product or service work, and is it cost effective.

I can list you two small companies right now, that no longer exist. The reason they no longer exist is because the owners ran the company like family. They employed and kept lazy people, who did barely enough to get by..... oh but they were treating them like family. They never came down and said we have to make ends meet or we're out of business, and thus they went out of business.

When *YOU* are the owner of a business, you can run it any way you want. Until then SHUT UP. When it's *YOUR* house that is going to be foreclosed, and all *YOUR* cars repo'd, and *YOUR* entire life is flushed down the drain....... and you still want to run the company like a big ol happy family, with no preasure.... Then you can come back and preach to all of us how companies should be run like family.

Pretty easy to stand your soap box preaching, when you have never been faced with the challenge of making payroll, and figuring out how to keep the doors open without losing your house.

I have never worked at any company which treated me all that bad. Most of the people who claim companies treat them bad, often are complaining because they are not given a raise, when they have done nothing to earn a raise. Your raise, is effective when you are.

The only place I have ever worked, where I was treated terribly, was oddly, a mom&pop shop. The owner of this tiny little gas station, treated me like crap, and I simply walked up to him, and said "I'm not going to work here any more. I'm going home" And that was the end of my job there. I fired my employer.

In Capitalism, I can do that. In socialism, you can't. The government of China (prior to 78) says "you were in the rice patties", and that is where you work, until you die. You are born poor, live poor, and die poor. No hope of changing anything.

And by the way, there were rich people in China then. They just all were part of the Communist party, and worked in the government.

That's your system of rich get richer, and poor get poorer, enforced by government.

 

[Andylusion]

Has someone figured out the magic formula to define a "living" wage?

Or should each employee be paid according to how much money they need to "live?"

true no one has fiqured it out yet
a young single person living at home could live on the minimum wage
a person DOING the same job same tenure should they be paid more cus they have 3 kids
LIKELY they will
claim food stamps what ever the mnimum wage is

lesson pay what the job is worth not what the employee ...NEEDS ,,,,,

The lowest paid job in the richest country in the world is worth a living wage.

No, it's not. See it's real easy for you to say that, when it's not you paying those wages.

But if a guy mows your lawn for you, and then says "I want $100 per cut, because 'The lowest paid job in the richest country in the world is worth a living wage'" Are you going to pay him $100 to mow your lawn?

Nope. Most won't. Very very few are going to pay out $200 every month, to cut a small urban lawn.

When you go to McDonald's and the price for a value meal is $25, are you going to pay it?

But but that burger flipper deserves a living wage!

No, you are not going to pay $25, when you could buy an entire pound of ground beef at the store for $3.

See? When you are not the one shelling out the cash, it's easy to say how others should be paid more. Little different when you are paying those wages huh?

 

[Andylusion]

Minimum wage should have the same spending power it had when it was started and it should be indexed for inflation.

That has already been tried, and it was a disaster.

Greece did exactly that. They instituted a minimum wage, and indexed it to inflation with automatic increases.

Want to know what happened?

In 2008, the unemployment rate actually FELL.

In July of 2008, they increased the minimum wage, indexed to inflation.

Unemployment started to climb.

In 2009, they increased the minimum wage again, and unemployment continued to climb higher.

The World Bank at this time, predicted unemployment would fall 2011, and the economy would recover. Remember, these are those completely trust worthy government economists, just like Obama's economics team that predicted the stimulus would keep unemployment under 6%.

In 2011, they increased the minimum wage again. Not only did the unemployment rate not fall... but it continue to climb, but not only did it continued to climbed, but faster than before.

In 2012, the Greek government finally figured out the absolute BS lies about how minimum wage spurs growth, and doesn't harm employment. They announced that in order to stop harming the economy, and encourage employment... they were going to cut the minimum wage, and end the indexing to inflation.

In July of 2012, the minimum wage in Greece was cut 20%. Massive cut.

Unemployment started to slow down, and level off in 2013, and by July of 2013, unemployment started to fall.


Bottom line gal.....

We've tried it your way. It was a failure of epic proportions. Following your plan, nearly destroyed the entire country of Greece.

Bad plan. It will be decades for Greece to recover from the bad policies leftists put in place. (unless they completely switch over to a capitalist system, but I doubt the leftists in Greece have learned enough from their failures to do that)

 

[Andylusion]

No what I'm talking about is the style or types of systems that they have, in which creates the super rich and sadly for the masses mostly the super poor and/or poor.

Would you defend Mexico's system of government and their set up in that nation, in which is controlled by and run by whom again ? Now why is there so many coming across our southern border for work at such cheap pay for their labor, I mean if it is that they are in a nation that was run differently than that ?

Minimum wage should be an entrance pay.

A living wage should be based upon a structured pay grade system that is custom to the type businesses that are being operated individually.

A living wage should also be structured with a percentage paid on the successes beyond the flat rates that a company has set in their ladder pay structure, where as this gives employee's the incentive to pull harder and work smarter to make the company a complete sucess in the market place.

A company should be run as a family, and not some sort of hard nosed place where people go to feel as if they are some sort of modern day slaves instead of someone that is respected and appreciated for being there and on the job.

Minimum wage should have the same spending power it had when it was started and it should be indexed for inflation.

We need the dollar to be worth far more than what it's worth across the board right now in this nation, and just look at these gasoline prices, where as that would be a great place to start helping the situation out again. When a person goes to the store to fill up a 5 gal. jug for lawn mower gas, and it cost them almost $20.00, then Houston we have a serious problem in this nation. Talk a bout a dollar almost being rendered worthless, I mean wow. And this is just one area where the dollar is under attack for it's value going down the tubes for us. The rich man can deal with it, because he has enough of them dollars to just keep laying them down when someone demands it, but for most of us not so much anymore.

Yes.... but people are also not being paid in dimes anymore either.

Inflation is natural to any currency, and is absolutely unavoidable.

But here's the kicker.... if you really don't want to have inflation, the absolute best possible way to avoid inflation, is to avoid giving government a reason to inflate the currency.

Well what motivation is there for government to inflate currency? There's only one.

Debt.

The primary reason government prints out cash, is because they have bills they can't pay.

The key is to not have those bills. Social Security. Medicare. Medicaid. Infrastructure spending. All the various departments of everything. Interest on existing debt.

You cut all that crap out, cut spending down, and start paying off all the debts we already owe... and the need to have the Treasury start printing out dollars, goes away real fast. The currency will stabilized, and even deflate.

But that requires all the leftards, and even the right-wingers, to cut spending on things the government isn't supposed to be doing anyway. No more cash for clunkers, or bank bailouts.

 

[Andylusion]

This is a long thread so I don't know if anyone posted this link but I'll post it. FDR had to deal with republicans who never give a damn for anyone but those of extreme wealth. The same objections used by republicans in the 1930's are used today, except now the fat cats have convinced republican working stiffs that what's in the best interest of the romneys and coke brothers is also in the best interest of the working man.

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/07/f-d-r-makes-the-case-for-the-minimum-wage/

Yeah, and FDR was wrong then, and the Republicans are still right.

Maybe you missed the memo, but FDR screwed the hell out of this country. If the Republicans had been able to stop the New Deal, and stop FDR Jr, Herbert Hoover before him, there would never have been a great depression.

 

[Againsheila]

true no one has fiqured it out yet
a young single person living at home could live on the minimum wage
a person DOING the same job same tenure should they be paid more cus they have 3 kids
LIKELY they will
claim food stamps what ever the mnimum wage is

lesson pay what the job is worth not what the employee ...NEEDS ,,,,,

The lowest paid job in the richest country in the world is worth a living wage.

No, it's not. See it's real easy for you to say that, when it's not you paying those wages.

But if a guy mows your lawn for you, and then says "I want $100 per cut, because 'The lowest paid job in the richest country in the world is worth a living wage'" Are you going to pay him $100 to mow your lawn?

Nope. Most won't. Very very few are going to pay out $200 every month, to cut a small urban lawn.

When you go to McDonald's and the price for a value meal is $25, are you going to pay it?

But but that burger flipper deserves a living wage!

No, you are not going to pay $25, when you could buy an entire pound of ground beef at the store for $3.

See? When you are not the one shelling out the cash, it's easy to say how others should be paid more. Little different when you are paying those wages huh?

Number one, the guy who mows my lawn gets $20, $30 if he also does the trimming. It takes about an hour so that's a living wage, and he's a kid. Number two, I don't eat at McDonalds, you couldn't pay me to eat there. I eat a Denny's, or Village Inn and guess what? Yep, they pay a living wage.

Did you read the OP? They could raise the Walmart's workers pay to a living wage and it would cost you a whopping penny more on the dollar.

 

[priceless]

This is part of the reason I am okay with not raising minimum wage. It is a matter of who you want to help, and who you are willing to screw.

Food stamps and other non-monetary forms of currency would help reduce inflation. If a certain selection of goods and services were available free of charge to everyone, currency-based commerce would be reserved for non-essential goods and services, which would reduce the ability of predatory lenders to prey on future income of low-wage workers.

Why not eliminate minimum-wage laws altogether and replace them with basic welfare guarantees? Then let people work for whatever wages the market offers them for premium goods and services if they choose to do so. Would that be somehow less of a free-market than putting a floor on wages?

 

[Ernie S.]

There is no such thing as free food. Someone has to produce it. They have to be paid for their labor. The food has to be shipped and distributed.

Sorry guy. I bought food for my kids, working 2 jobs at times. Now it's your turn.

 

[sameech]

Food stamps and other non-monetary forms of currency would help reduce inflation. If a certain selection of goods and services were available free of charge to everyone, currency-based commerce would be reserved for non-essential goods and services, which would reduce the ability of predatory lenders to prey on future income of low-wage workers.

Why not eliminate minimum-wage laws altogether and replace them with basic welfare guarantees? Then let people work for whatever wages the market offers them for premium goods and services if they choose to do so. Would that be somehow less of a free-market than putting a floor on wages?

I am skeptical of the validity of the first part of your post. "Free of charge" would lead to a lot of waste and those suppliers would still need to be paid so that they could in turn pay their workers who could in turn afford goods and services, essential or otherwise. We wouldn't even be able to keep grocery stores stocked if food were free. It is hard enough for them to keep them stocked when they have a really good sale.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Yep, Economists have.

You misspelled "Marxists," comrade.

Google is your friend.

Reality is not your acquaintance.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The lowest paid job in the richest country in the world is worth a living wage.

No, it's not. See it's real easy for you to say that, when it's not you paying those wages.

But if a guy mows your lawn for you, and then says "I want $100 per cut, because 'The lowest paid job in the richest country in the world is worth a living wage'" Are you going to pay him $100 to mow your lawn?

Nope. Most won't. Very very few are going to pay out $200 every month, to cut a small urban lawn.

When you go to McDonald's and the price for a value meal is $25, are you going to pay it?

But but that burger flipper deserves a living wage!

No, you are not going to pay $25, when you could buy an entire pound of ground beef at the store for $3.

See? When you are not the one shelling out the cash, it's easy to say how others should be paid more. Little different when you are paying those wages huh?

Number one, the guy who mows my lawn gets $20, $30 if he also does the trimming. It takes about an hour so that's a living wage, and he's a kid. Number two, I don't eat at McDonalds, you couldn't pay me to eat there. I eat a Denny's, or Village Inn and guess what? Yep, they pay a living wage.

Did you read the OP? They could raise the Walmart's workers pay to a living wage and it would cost you a whopping penny more on the dollar.

Thats not a living wage. Unless of course you want to pay him in the winter when the grass doesnt grow.

 

[Againsheila]

No, it's not. See it's real easy for you to say that, when it's not you paying those wages.

But if a guy mows your lawn for you, and then says "I want $100 per cut, because 'The lowest paid job in the richest country in the world is worth a living wage'" Are you going to pay him $100 to mow your lawn?

Nope. Most won't. Very very few are going to pay out $200 every month, to cut a small urban lawn.

When you go to McDonald's and the price for a value meal is $25, are you going to pay it?

But but that burger flipper deserves a living wage!

No, you are not going to pay $25, when you could buy an entire pound of ground beef at the store for $3.

See? When you are not the one shelling out the cash, it's easy to say how others should be paid more. Little different when you are paying those wages huh?

Number one, the guy who mows my lawn gets $20, $30 if he also does the trimming. It takes about an hour so that's a living wage, and he's a kid. Number two, I don't eat at McDonalds, you couldn't pay me to eat there. I eat a Denny's, or Village Inn and guess what? Yep, they pay a living wage.

Did you read the OP? They could raise the Walmart's workers pay to a living wage and it would cost you a whopping penny more on the dollar.

Thats not a living wage. Unless of course you want to pay him in the winter when the grass doesnt grow.

Are we demanding that you pay minimum wage workers for hours not worked? No we are demanding a living wage for the hours they work. That was a nice try though.

Not one answer to the fact that a living wage at Walmart would cost you a whopping one penny on the dollar. How much were you claiming it would cost? $25 for a burger at McDonalds?

 

[RKMBrown]

There is no such thing as free food. Someone has to produce it. They have to be paid for their labor. The food has to be shipped and distributed.

Sorry guy. I bought food for my kids, working 2 jobs at times. Now it's your turn.

Minor nit. I can harvest tons of food off my ranch it's pretty much free for the taking. I wouldn't pay myself to harvest berries, wild pigs, deer, pecans, ... To me that stuff is pretty much free food for the taking.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Number one, the guy who mows my lawn gets $20, $30 if he also does the trimming. It takes about an hour so that's a living wage, and he's a kid. Number two, I don't eat at McDonalds, you couldn't pay me to eat there. I eat a Denny's, or Village Inn and guess what? Yep, they pay a living wage.

Did you read the OP? They could raise the Walmart's workers pay to a living wage and it would cost you a whopping penny more on the dollar.

Thats not a living wage. Unless of course you want to pay him in the winter when the grass doesnt grow.

Are we demanding that you pay minimum wage workers for hours not worked? No we are demanding a living wage for the hours they work. That was a nice try though.

Not one answer to the fact that a living wage at Walmart would cost you a whopping one penny on the dollar. How much were you claiming it would cost? $25 for a burger at McDonalds?

Must everything be explained to you? Where did the kid get the lawn mower,the weed eater,the gas,the oil the maintenance on his equipment. And lets say he mows four or five lawns a day. You do realize a mower isnt going to last long when it's used that often right? A decent mower for commercial use is going to run AT LEAST six hundred bucks.
I'b be willing to bet it's mommy and daddies mower. And no matter what you say his annual income is going to suck because he's not mowing grass year round.
Dont be such a simpleton.

 

[sameech]

Must everything be explained to you? Where did the kid get the lawn mower,the weed eater,the gas,the oil the maintenance on his equipment. And lets say he mows four or five lawns a day. You do realize a mower isnt going to last long when it's used that often right? A decent mower for commercial use is going to run AT LEAST six hundred bucks.
I'b be willing to bet it's mommy and daddies mower. And no matter what you say his annual income is going to suck because he's not mowing grass year round.
Dont be such a simpleton.

When I did commercial landscaping and maintenance, our contracts for businesses were a minimum 12 month contract at a fixed monthly price.