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I don't object to it and I never accused you being a terrible person, what ever gave you that idea?
I was merely explaining how for that kind of work, $20-$30 isn't a living wage if somebody is trying to support themselves or a family. now then, you did explain that it was the kid next door, so he obviously isn't trying to support himself or a family. He's also not collecting food stamps. Then, you claim I am going off on a tangent when it was you that brought up your neighbor kid, not me.
The going rate in my area for a yard my size runs $50-60. Neighborhood kids used to do it for cheaper than that, but they didn't do a good job so I hired an adult to do it for the going rate. When it comes time to fertilize, throw down some more seed or aerate he charges me more. Sometimes I trim my own hedges, sometimes I pay him to do it. The guy I've got now does a great job. I've recommended him to some friends and coworkers and he's picked some of them up as clients also.
My yard man is actually a good example of what this thread is about. He's not out there demanding a living wage, he's out there trying to earn one. He knocked on my door looking for business. He works hard. He does a great job. A few weeks ago, some idiot hit my mailbox post with their car (lots of people practice driving in my neighborhood because the DMV does their on-the-road tests in my neighborhood), I didn't have time to repair it that weekend. The next time Chris mowed my yard, he took the time to repair it. He told me no charge, it was a thank you for me recommending him to other clients. That is exactly the type of person that is going above and beyond instead of just expecting a "living wage". I gave him an extra $20 because I know he probably spent 45 minutes to an hour repairing it (I've done the repair myself many times and I know how long it takes). At first he didn't want to take the extra money, he said it was a slow day for him anyways, and he had the time.
That same type of attitude holds true for somebody working at Walmart or in fast food or in corporate America or landscaping, you go above and beyond and you will get promoted and you will make more money, I've seen it be true for the 40 years I've been in the workforce. People don't get paid more money just because they think they should be paid more, they get paid more because they've done something to earn it and because they provide extra value to their employer.
I've seen just the opposite. Especially in government jobs. You do a good job you are never going to advance. Plus there isn't anywhere to advance today, by outsourcing and insourcing, we've removed too many rungs on the ladder.
Wow, so your solution to your supposed problem is more government.
And why do you think that makes sense?
You didn't explain why it makes sense.I've seen just the opposite. Especially in government jobs. You do a good job you are never going to advance. Plus there isn't anywhere to advance today, by outsourcing and insourcing, we've removed too many rungs on the ladder.
Wow, so your solution to your supposed problem is more government.
And why do you think that makes sense?
We already have a minimum wage, make it worth what it was when it started and I'll stop complaining, deal?
Your still NOT add ressing the question who decides what is a living wage what is okay for one is not for anotherHas someone figured out the magic formula to define a "living" wage?
Or should each employee be paid according to how much money they need to "live?"
true no one has fiqured it out yet
a young single person living at home could live on the minimum wage
a person DOING the same job same tenure should they be paid more cus they have 3 kids
LIKELY they will
claim food stamps what ever the mnimum wage is
lesson pay what the job is worth not what the employee ...NEEDS ,,,,,
The lowest paid job in the richest country in the world is worth a living wage.
but are the worker who do the heavy work immigrants many areI applaud you on many levels. You are helping instill a work ethic in the kid, you are helping him empower himself with a trade that he can fall back on or expand into a real business someday, and you are teaching him that he must do what he is paid to do in order to be paid. That said, it is not really an example of a "living wage" situation. If anything, it is an example of how prices are set. You are willing to pay it and he is willing to do it for that price. That is no different than what happens in the larger market at McDonald's that will start the kid off at Minimum Wage if he is willing to do it. Otherwise they will find someone else who will just as you would need to find someone else to mow your grass if he was not willing to do it at a price you were willing to pay.
He wont likely be able to turn it into a business unfortunately. Illegals and immigrants have that market cornered.
I do agree wholeheartedly with you that it teaches the kid a valuable lesson about work. Unfortunately that lesson has been taken away from our children. Just like most min wage jobs.
Depends on where one lives. There are several small landscaping/maintenance businesses in my area that are either run by whites or blacks. None that I know of that are owned and operated by immigrants.
Well I guess it is a living wage then. CONSIDERING HE LIVES WITH HIS PARENTS!!!! WTF is wrong with you? That you even brought up the neighbor kid as an example is pathetic.
I pay my yard guys $65.00 a week,you cheap ass capitalist pig!!! Why are you ripping of the poor? He should go on strike and force you to pay more...wait,WHAT? You dont provide insurance and a 401k? No paid vacation??? He needs at least 4 weeks a year or it's not fair.
Seriously.... Were you dropped on your head as a kid?
You're getting ripped off. I pay my yard guy 10 beers at my bar.
I pay it gladly. They do the mulch,tree trimming,replace the flowers in the beds 4 or 5 times a year,fertilize,pull weeds,maintain the sprinkler systems. And they aren't inebriated when they do it.In other words I dont have to do jack shit other then tell them what to do.
He lives next door, and he's too young to drive. I paid him $30 last week, he forgot to do the trimming so I paid him $20 this week. He did the trimming. Next week, if he does the trimming also, I will pay him the $30. Ours is a difficult yard and there is a lot of trimming, hence the extra $10.
Still you are avoiding the point and going off on a tangent about what a terrible person I am for paying the kid who mows my lawn between $20 and $30 for an hours work. Why do you object to paying a penny on the dollar more so people don't have to depend on food stamps to live?
I don't object to it and I never accused you being a terrible person, what ever gave you that idea?
I was merely explaining how for that kind of work, $20-$30 isn't a living wage if somebody is trying to support themselves or a family. now then, you did explain that it was the kid next door, so he obviously isn't trying to support himself or a family. He's also not collecting food stamps. Then, you claim I am going off on a tangent when it was you that brought up your neighbor kid, not me.
The going rate in my area for a yard my size runs $50-60. Neighborhood kids used to do it for cheaper than that, but they didn't do a good job so I hired an adult to do it for the going rate. When it comes time to fertilize, throw down some more seed or aerate he charges me more. Sometimes I trim my own hedges, sometimes I pay him to do it. The guy I've got now does a great job. I've recommended him to some friends and coworkers and he's picked some of them up as clients also.
My yard man is actually a good example of what this thread is about. He's not out there demanding a living wage, he's out there trying to earn one. He knocked on my door looking for business. He works hard. He does a great job. A few weeks ago, some idiot hit my mailbox post with their car (lots of people practice driving in my neighborhood because the DMV does their on-the-road tests in my neighborhood), I didn't have time to repair it that weekend. The next time Chris mowed my yard, he took the time to repair it. He told me no charge, it was a thank you for me recommending him to other clients. That is exactly the type of person that is going above and beyond instead of just expecting a "living wage". I gave him an extra $20 because I know he probably spent 45 minutes to an hour repairing it (I've done the repair myself many times and I know how long it takes). At first he didn't want to take the extra money, he said it was a slow day for him anyways, and he had the time.
That same type of attitude holds true for somebody working at Walmart or in fast food or in corporate America or landscaping, you go above and beyond and you will get promoted and you will make more money, I've seen it be true for the 40 years I've been in the workforce. People don't get paid more money just because they think they should be paid more, they get paid more because they've done something to earn it and because they provide extra value to their employer.
I've seen just the opposite. Especially in government jobs. You do a good job you are never going to advance. Plus there isn't anywhere to advance today, by outsourcing and insourcing, we've removed too many rungs on the ladder.
I applaud you on many levels. You are helping instill a work ethic in the kid, you are helping him empower himself with a trade that he can fall back on or expand into a real business someday, and you are teaching him that he must do what he is paid to do in order to be paid. That said, it is not really an example of a "living wage" situation. If anything, it is an example of how prices are set. You are willing to pay it and he is willing to do it for that price. That is no different than what happens in the larger market at McDonald's that will start the kid off at Minimum Wage if he is willing to do it. Otherwise they will find someone else who will just as you would need to find someone else to mow your grass if he was not willing to do it at a price you were willing to pay.
That is very libertarian of you, and very factual of you.
Nobody is forced to work for minimum wage or for a wage they find unacceptable. Wages are a negotiation between an employer (somebody willing to pay for labor) and an employee (somebody willing to offer labor for a wage). We often pay for stuff we don't want to do ourselves. I buy bacon at a grocery store because I don't want to raise a pig, kill a pig, clean a pig, cut a pig up, build a smokehouse, cut down trees to build the smokehouse and for the smoking, or all the other things that are required so I can eat bacon. I'm more than willing to pay for hog ranchers, butchers, smokers and tree-cutters to do that work for me. But, there is only so much I will pay for bacon, if the rancher, butcher, smoker, smokehouse builder and tree-cutter all earned $50 an hour I probably wouldn't buy bacon or raise, butcher and smoke my own hogs for the bacon, I'd go without bacon.
I don't think I've ever met anyone who enjoyed their min wage job or would want it as a career.So 3 who hate the poor and want to force them to go to college or school of some kind to rack up more debt instead of letting them earn a decent wage at a job they enjoy.
no, i think they DO enjoy their minimum wage jobs.
they just what to be paid MORE for the very little that they do.
Tell me, what walmart greeter doesn't want $15 an hour?
Why do you think they'd be fired because somebody tipped them?.I'm sure the Walmart workers won't mind if you tip them since you feel so strongly about this. I certainly don't mind if you want to tip them for the for the service you receive. What's holding you back?
They'd probably be fired if they took it. Regardless, the problem with that evil Walmart argument is that in my area, the "living wage" is below Walmart's average wage nationally, not to mention that paying a person enough to survive on part-time work is unfair to full-time workers.
I hope that was a facetious or joking comment.
Somethings are unclear on internet message boards.
but are the worker who do the heavy work immigrants many are
about an acre and a half of grass. When it is hitting on 100 in july and august, I am usually "Screw the back half--the zoning enforcement people can't see it."
Acre & a half... that sucks to big for a walk behind to small for a real tractor with a pull behind 6'-8' deck. Once a quarter or so I pull a bush hog around my pasture & trails. Have a walk behind for some grass around the house but it's fairly tame I only seem to have to cut it about twelve times a year. We don't water it, so it gets to be a nice pretty brown when it's cold and/or dry out.
My lot (well technically two lots) is just shy of 2 acres but has a few trees around the fringes, then I have a garden and the footprint of the house/driveway. I don't water mine unless I am seeding other than my garden. In the spring I have to mow every week but in the summer I can usually go 2-3 weeks easy. I like to keep the frontage neatly trimmed because we have these roving zoning patrols that get worked up if your grass is long, but beyond that, I don't sweat it that much.
Zoning patrols... heh They'd need an airplane, satellite, or a uav to check out my zoning compliance
I read many posts about how low walmarts wage stacture is .
the darling of the left who died a few years back steve( apple ) jobs PAID MIN WAGE TO A LOT OF HIS EMPLOYEES AND OUTSOURCED MOST OF IT why no complaint t about him ? he is one democrat of many who pay min to employees at least be consistant
Zoning patrols... heh They'd need an airplane, satellite, or a uav to check out my zoning compliance
but are the worker who do the heavy work immigrants many are
Not that I am aware of. Like I indicated, in my area, one mostly sees immigrant labor either working on farms as seasonal workers or working for out of town construction companies doing projects in town who bring their workers with them. I think there is still a racial boas against hiring immigrants even for back-breaking labor in my area.
They'd probably be fired if they took it. Regardless, the problem with that evil Walmart argument is that in my area, the "living wage" is below Walmart's average wage nationally, not to mention that paying a person enough to survive on part-time work is unfair to full-time workers.
but are the worker who do the heavy work immigrants many are
Not that I am aware of. Like I indicated, in my area, one mostly sees immigrant labor either working on farms as seasonal workers or working for out of town construction companies doing projects in town who bring their workers with them. I think there is still a racial boas against hiring immigrants even for back-breaking labor in my area.
When I got bids on my roof, I asked all the bidders if they used e-verify. Not one of them did. I ended up getting a friend to do it for less than 1/2 of all the bidders and their illegal alien help. I will not have an illegal in my home or on my property. I've read too many stories about their getting hurt and suing the homeowners. It's the holy grail for them. A ticket home and enough money to support them the rest of their lives.
I applaud you on many levels. You are helping instill a work ethic in the kid, you are helping him empower himself with a trade that he can fall back on or expand into a real business someday, and you are teaching him that he must do what he is paid to do in order to be paid. That said, it is not really an example of a "living wage" situation. If anything, it is an example of how prices are set. You are willing to pay it and he is willing to do it for that price. That is no different than what happens in the larger market at McDonald's that will start the kid off at Minimum Wage if he is willing to do it. Otherwise they will find someone else who will just as you would need to find someone else to mow your grass if he was not willing to do it at a price you were willing to pay.
That is very libertarian of you, and very factual of you.
Nobody is forced to work for minimum wage or for a wage they find unacceptable. Wages are a negotiation between an employer (somebody willing to pay for labor) and an employee (somebody willing to offer labor for a wage). We often pay for stuff we don't want to do ourselves. I buy bacon at a grocery store because I don't want to raise a pig, kill a pig, clean a pig, cut a pig up, build a smokehouse, cut down trees to build the smokehouse and for the smoking, or all the other things that are required so I can eat bacon. I'm more than willing to pay for hog ranchers, butchers, smokers and tree-cutters to do that work for me. But, there is only so much I will pay for bacon, if the rancher, butcher, smoker, smokehouse builder and tree-cutter all earned $50 an hour I probably wouldn't buy bacon or raise, butcher and smoke my own hogs for the bacon, I'd go without bacon.
You're right about going without bacon. When food production was much more labor intensive, and required a much larger percentage of the population to work on farms, food was more expensive and you probably would do without bacon at least more frequently than now. That's exactly right. It is not simply a matter of each stage of food production paying higher wages but rather the total cost of that food production. If each stage required ten fold the number of manhours, either wages would plummet or food would get more expensive or a combination thereof. We live in a wonderful time where bacon is cheap and plentiful and conveniently available. In how many periods of history could so many people eat meat from multiple animals at the same time (bacon cheeseburger), in such portions, and with such frequency?
That part about
"Nobody is forced to work for minimum wage or for a wage they find unacceptable. Wages are a negotiation between an employer (somebody willing to pay for labor) and an employee (somebody willing to offer labor for a wage)."
is not entirely true. Because it is not entirely true, labor unions were born. Because it is not entirely true, we have a minimum wage.
"...the exploitation of a class of workers who are in an unequal position with respect to bargaining power, and are thus relatively defenceless against the denial of a living wage, is not only detrimental to their health and wellbeing, but casts a direct burden for their support upon the community. What these workers lose in wages, the taxpayers are called upon to pay. The bare cost of living must be met."
West Coast Hotel Co. v. Parrish, 300 US 379 - 1937
and for what they do, why the fuck does a Walmart greeter deserve more'n, say, $2 per hour...? jes' askin'...
