THIS JUST IN on the Zimmerman case....

[paperview]

So people know who the Optimists are:

Welcome to Optimist International

 

[Emma]

One thing is for sure, a football player over 6' weighs more than 165-lbs.

Those photos of him in football uniforms were from a community youth football league with specific weight classes, so there is no way to know what level he was playing at the time. I've seen no reports that he played for his high school team. I do know that in all photos I've seen of him, he is of slender build.

Correct. He played for the Optimists Football team at 14.

Did not play after that.

He did work the concession stand on the weekends for the non-profit charity group later though.

I thought it might be 12 - 14, but I wasn't able to find a specific age. Thanks

 

[Intense]

If he thought this kid was carrying a gun, he should have listened to the instruction to "stand down".

There was no instruction to stand down, you're a lying sack of shit to continue to spread that lie when you know for a fact it's a lie.

Particularly given the current tensions.

Zimmerman is the one stirring up all the tension by staying in hiding after he killed that kid and let him die on the street alone.

You all defending him and continuing the lies are also a part of the tension. The protests have been peaceful but you're so afraid and you are creating problems everyday. There has been nothing but peaceful protest and honest quiestions about why Zimmerman is still on the street.

No answers. They'd better find some.

There has been allot of misreporting and speculation. There are known and unknowns. Best to stick to the known.

 

[koshergrl]

If he thought this kid was carrying a gun, he should have listened to the instruction to "stand down".

There was no instruction to stand down, you're a lying sack of shit to continue to spread that lie when you know for a fact it's a lie.

Particularly given the current tensions.

Zimmerman is the one stirring up all the tension by staying in hiding after he killed that kid and let him die on the street alone.

You all defending him and continuing the lies are also a part of the tension. The protests have been peaceful but you're so afraid and you are creating problems everyday. There has been nothing but peaceful protest and honest quiestions about why Zimmerman is still on the street.

No answers. They'd better find some.

Is that a threat?

Lynch mobber.

 

[Sarah G]

So people know who the Optimists are:

Welcome to Optimist International

[Sarcasm] Sure sounds like a gang of thugs to me.. [/Sarcasm].

 

[paperview]

So people know who the Optimists are:

Welcome to Optimist International

[Sarcasm] Sure sounds like a gang of thugs to me.. [/Sarcasm].

More about that team, and Trayvon's impression on the coach:

Football Hotbed reached out to Mark Francis, the director of the Miramar Optimist program to learn more about one of South Florida's youth football alums, Trayvon Martin. Francis is the head of an organization that runs the Wolverines (AYFL) and Patriots (Xtreme) youth football organizations. Trayvon, the deceased 17-year-old teen who has garnered national headlines because of why he was killed, was a youth football player for the Wolverines.
...

The entire South Florida youth football community is invited to attend. Martin's father Tracy, will be on hand also. Mr. Francis sat down with Football Hotbed to explain the significance of Saturday's events and the life of Trayvon.

What did Trayvon Martin and his father mean to the Miramar organization?

Trayvon Martin is our son. We saw and will always see him as such. He was a pleasant young man that we will always hold in the highest regard. In my eight years at Miramar Optimist, not once did I see him looking displeased or angry in any capacity. The kid addressed all adults as maam or sir.

When his optimist [youth football] days were done, he came back as a volunteer and was still a regular at Forzano Park. Last year, he helped his dad to manage the concession stands for our home games. Trayvon was there every Saturday (8 am to around 9 pm) from July to November. He never complained.

He was passionate about family and friends.

His father Tracy Martin is a fixture at Miramar. He and Jerome Horton, who is also a park administrator share a bond unlike any other.

Football Hot Bed - Remembering Trayvon Martin: One on One with Miramar Optimist Director

 

[koshergrl]

Who said the football team he belonged to as a little kid were thugs?

What's with you guys and insisting on characterizing him as a 12 year old? It's creepy.

 

[Emma]

So people know who the Optimists are:

Welcome to Optimist International

Here is the youth league website:

South Florida Youth Football League

"Trayvon played football for both the North Dade Bulldogs and the Miramar Wolverines."

ETA: paperview beat me to it

 

[Katzndogz]

If Trayvon Martin beat Zimmerman up the law applies. That's the end of it. Libs want to use this incident to basically legalize home invasion robberies and random violence. That's the whole goal.

There was no fucking home invasion. The kid was visiting his father and carrying CANDY home to his little brother.

I never said Martin did anything of the kind. Libs want to eliminate the stand your ground law, which has effects beyond Trayvon Martin. Liberals have always had a serious problem with self defense. Trayvon Martin is not the be and end all.

 

[Intense]

If Trayvon Martin beat Zimmerman up the law applies. That's the end of it. Libs want to use this incident to basically legalize home invasion robberies and random violence. That's the whole goal.

There was no fucking home invasion. The kid was visiting his father and carrying CANDY home to his little brother.

I never said Martin did anything of the kind. Libs want to eliminate the stand your ground law, which has effects beyond Trayvon Martin. Liberals have always had a serious problem with self defense. Trayvon Martin is not the be and end all.

The Stand Your Ground Law has little or nothing to do with the Incident. Nobody should be required to produce a Permission Slip for Self Defense. The key here, is knowing the Definition of Self Defense. Zimmerman should not have been armed on Neighborhood Watch Patrol, as per Neighborhood Watch Guide Lines. If the Kid attacked Him, the Kid was wrong in doing that, regardless of the reason, if it was not Self Defense on His part. As of now, We still don't know the specifics. At this point, I truly believe all that can be done, is being done in the Investigation.

 

[KissMy]

KM just proved that Martin was underweight for his size. Not to mention that he'd played football as a younger child and was not a football player in high school.

He was not under weight if he weighed 145-lbs. According to the BMI the perfect range for a 6'-0" person is 145-lbs to 180-lbs & for a 6'-2" is 155-lbs to 190-lbs. I claim that football players like him fall into the high side of the range or over. Zimmerman had no size advantage over Martin.

Trayvon Martin (on the right) is big enough to beat up, do major bodily harm or kill the other 13 people in this photo with him. According to the FBI criminal data 17 year old males are the most violent killers of any other age group.

That isn't true. According to FBI statistics, arrests for violent crimes are higher in the eighteen plus category.
Table 43 - Crime in the United States 2009


Not that it matters. Just because you see a teen and think "violent offender" doesn't make it so.

Your "violent offender" link does not have it broken down by age. When I have time I will post it.

 

[Ravi]

He was not under weight if he weighed 145-lbs. According to the BMI the perfect range for a 6'-0" person is 145-lbs to 180-lbs & for a 6'-2" is 155-lbs to 190-lbs. I claim that football players like him fall into the high side of the range or over. Zimmerman had no size advantage over Martin.

Trayvon Martin (on the right) is big enough to beat up, do major bodily harm or kill the other 13 people in this photo with him. According to the FBI criminal data 17 year old males are the most violent killers of any other age group.

That isn't true. According to FBI statistics, arrests for violent crimes are higher in the eighteen plus category.
Table 43 - Crime in the United States 2009


Not that it matters. Just because you see a teen and think "violent offender" doesn't make it so.

Your "violent offender" link does not have it broken down by age. When I have time I will post it.

It does. You need to scroll down.

 

[KissMy]

FBI Age & Race Specific Arrest Rates

The crime index is highest around 17 year olds. 16-17 year old have the highest theft rates. 18 year olds most violent. Minorities have higher rates than whites. People from broken homes have the highest rates of all.

 

[sealybobo]

There was no fucking home invasion. The kid was visiting his father and carrying CANDY home to his little brother.

I never said Martin did anything of the kind. Libs want to eliminate the stand your ground law, which has effects beyond Trayvon Martin. Liberals have always had a serious problem with self defense. Trayvon Martin is not the be and end all.

The Stand Your Ground Law has little or nothing to do with the Incident. Nobody should be required to produce a Permission Slip for Self Defense. The key here, is knowing the Definition of Self Defense. Zimmerman should not have been armed on Neighborhood Watch Patrol, as per Neighborhood Watch Guide Lines. If the Kid attacked Him, the Kid was wrong in doing that, regardless of the reason, if it was not Self Defense on His part. As of now, We still don't know the specifics. At this point, I truly believe all that can be done, is being done in the Investigation.

The stand your ground law is really bad. Randi Rhodes was describing a case yesterday, I believe in Oklahoma where they too have stand your ground laws. Let me try to remember the details.

This guy and his girlfriend got in a fight with a neighbor. The neighbor left. The guy and his father in law went looking for the guy and they hit him with a baseball bat. The guy pulled out a gun and shot the guy with the bat. Sounds reasonable?

Well the guy with the gun was a felon with multiple weapons and drug charges and wasn't supposed to have a gun. So he got 7 years for having a gun. But he was not convicted of murder or homicide at all. He should be put away for life. Maybe if he didn't have a gun he wouldn't have been fighting in the first place.

 

[Vidi]

I never said Martin did anything of the kind. Libs want to eliminate the stand your ground law, which has effects beyond Trayvon Martin. Liberals have always had a serious problem with self defense. Trayvon Martin is not the be and end all.

The Stand Your Ground Law has little or nothing to do with the Incident. Nobody should be required to produce a Permission Slip for Self Defense. The key here, is knowing the Definition of Self Defense. Zimmerman should not have been armed on Neighborhood Watch Patrol, as per Neighborhood Watch Guide Lines. If the Kid attacked Him, the Kid was wrong in doing that, regardless of the reason, if it was not Self Defense on His part. As of now, We still don't know the specifics. At this point, I truly believe all that can be done, is being done in the Investigation.

The stand your ground law is really bad. Randi Rhodes was describing a case yesterday, I believe in Oklahoma where they too have stand your ground laws. Let me try to remember the details.

This guy and his girlfriend got in a fight with a neighbor. The neighbor left. The guy and his father in law went looking for the guy and they hit him with a baseball bat. The guy pulled out a gun and shot the guy with the bat. Sounds reasonable?

Well the guy with the gun was a felon with multiple weapons and drug charges and wasn't supposed to have a gun. So he got 7 years for having a gun. But he was not convicted of murder or homicide at all. He should be put away for life. Maybe if he didn't have a gun he wouldn't have been fighting in the first place.

Whoever started the initial fight, forfeits their stand their ground protections, under Florida law.

 

[California Girl]

The Stand Your Ground Law has little or nothing to do with the Incident. Nobody should be required to produce a Permission Slip for Self Defense. The key here, is knowing the Definition of Self Defense. Zimmerman should not have been armed on Neighborhood Watch Patrol, as per Neighborhood Watch Guide Lines. If the Kid attacked Him, the Kid was wrong in doing that, regardless of the reason, if it was not Self Defense on His part. As of now, We still don't know the specifics. At this point, I truly believe all that can be done, is being done in the Investigation.

The stand your ground law is really bad. Randi Rhodes was describing a case yesterday, I believe in Oklahoma where they too have stand your ground laws. Let me try to remember the details.

This guy and his girlfriend got in a fight with a neighbor. The neighbor left. The guy and his father in law went looking for the guy and they hit him with a baseball bat. The guy pulled out a gun and shot the guy with the bat. Sounds reasonable?

Well the guy with the gun was a felon with multiple weapons and drug charges and wasn't supposed to have a gun. So he got 7 years for having a gun. But he was not convicted of murder or homicide at all. He should be put away for life. Maybe if he didn't have a gun he wouldn't have been fighting in the first place.

Whoever started the initial fight, forfeits their stand their ground protections, under Florida law.

Even if it's the dead guy?

 

[Vidi]

If Trayvon Martin beat Zimmerman up the law applies. That's the end of it. Libs want to use this incident to basically legalize home invasion robberies and random violence. That's the whole goal.

There was no fucking home invasion. The kid was visiting his father and carrying CANDY home to his little brother.

I never said Martin did anything of the kind. Libs want to eliminate the stand your ground law, which has effects beyond Trayvon Martin. Liberals have always had a serious problem with self defense. Trayvon Martin is not the be and end all.

You don't have a clue what libs want. Self defense is not a problem at all.

Neither are guns. ( just to nip that argument in the bud before its said )

I'm as liberal as they come and I guarantee I own more guns than 99% of this board.

 

[Vidi]

The stand your ground law is really bad. Randi Rhodes was describing a case yesterday, I believe in Oklahoma where they too have stand your ground laws. Let me try to remember the details.

This guy and his girlfriend got in a fight with a neighbor. The neighbor left. The guy and his father in law went looking for the guy and they hit him with a baseball bat. The guy pulled out a gun and shot the guy with the bat. Sounds reasonable?

Well the guy with the gun was a felon with multiple weapons and drug charges and wasn't supposed to have a gun. So he got 7 years for having a gun. But he was not convicted of murder or homicide at all. He should be put away for life. Maybe if he didn't have a gun he wouldn't have been fighting in the first place.

Whoever started the initial fight, forfeits their stand their ground protections, under Florida law.

Even if it's the dead guy?

I'm of the opinion that Trayvon Martin was within the law if he in fact did attack George Zimmerman. Zimmerman chased after Martin and presented a threat to him. That gave Martin Stand Your Ground Protection.

That's what's so nuts about this whole thing.

If those supporting Zimmerman because of Stand Your Ground were REALLY defending Stand Your Ground, then they would also support Martin.

 

[Liability]

Whoever started the initial fight, forfeits their stand their ground protections, under Florida law.

Even if it's the dead guy?

I'm of the opinion that Trayvon Martin was within the law if he in fact did attack George Zimmerman. Zimmerman chased after Martin and presented a threat to him. Martin was NOT committing any criminal act when Zimmerman began his pursuit, though as I've explained before I understand based on the evidence why Zimmerman found Martin suspiscious.

there is NO credible evidence that Zimmerman "chased" Martin. There is no credible evidence that he ever represented a "threat" to Trayvon. We don't know for sure what the fuck Trayvon was up to before Zimmerman FOLLOWED (not chased) him.

Thus there is no valid basis to speculate that something done by Trayvon to Zimmerman (if he did do anything to Zimmerman) was "within the law."

 

[Ravi]

Even if it's the dead guy?

I'm of the opinion that Trayvon Martin was within the law if he in fact did attack George Zimmerman. Zimmerman chased after Martin and presented a threat to him. Martin was NOT committing any criminal act when Zimmerman began his pursuit, though as I've explained before I understand based on the evidence why Zimmerman found Martin suspiscious.

there is NO credible evidence that Zimmerman "chased" Martin. There is no credible evidence that he ever represented a "threat" to Trayvon. We don't know for sure what the fuck Trayvon was up to before Zimmerman FOLLOWED (not chased) him.

Thus there is no valid basis to speculate that something done by Trayvon to Zimmerman (if he did do anything to Zimmerman) was "within the law."

Aside from the fact that he killed Martin....