THIS JUST IN on the Zimmerman case....

[Missourian]

You don't know that....stop lying

I don't lie. The witness testimony:

But one man's testimony could be key for the police.


"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.


The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.


His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman​

And "John" is apparently lying. At least according to the first voice analysis.

According to the Sentinel, Owen used software "to compare Zimmerman's voice [heard on another 911 call, which Zimmerman made earlier the evening of Feb. 26] to the 911 call screams" recorded during a neighbor's phone call to police. The software, the Sentinel says, "returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent. 'As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman,' Owen says."

It wasn't possible for Owen to determine if the voice was that of Martin, the newspaper adds, because he didn't have a recording of the teen's voice to compare to the shouts for help.

The Sentinel writes that Ed Primeau, another audio forensics expert, used enhancement technology and "human analysis" to conclude that it was "a young man screaming."

Trayvon Martin Case: Voice Calling For Help Isn't Zimmerman's, Experts Say : The Two-Way : NPR

Except the "experts" emphasize that...

The experts, both of whom said they have testified in cases involving audio analysis, stressed they cannot say who was screaming.


Such analysis could play a role should there be a criminal or civil case over Martin's death.



Primeau, who said he uses a combination of critical listening skills and spectrum analysis, called voice identification "an exact science" that can help a legal team in court.


And standards set by the American Board of Recorded Evidence indicate "there must be at least 10 comparable words between two voice samples to reach a minimal decision criteria."


While Zimmerman says more than that many words on his 911 call, the only one heard on the second is a cry for "help."


But that board's current chairman Gregg Stutchman -- who described Owens as a friend and well-respected in their field -- said that exact metric doesn't necessarily apply to the software Owens used.

David Faigman, a professor of law at the University of California-Hastings and an expert on the admissibility of scientific evidence, said courts and the overall scientific community have mixed opinions about the reliability of such "voiceprint" analysis.

Prosecutor: Account that he, police chief opted not to arrest Martin's shooter a 'lie' - CNN.com
​

 

[Vidi]

I don't lie. The witness testimony:

But one man's testimony could be key for the police.


"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.


The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.


His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman​

And "John" is apparently lying. At least according to the first voice analysis.

According to the Sentinel, Owen used software "to compare Zimmerman's voice [heard on another 911 call, which Zimmerman made earlier the evening of Feb. 26] to the 911 call screams" recorded during a neighbor's phone call to police. The software, the Sentinel says, "returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent. 'As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman,' Owen says."

It wasn't possible for Owen to determine if the voice was that of Martin, the newspaper adds, because he didn't have a recording of the teen's voice to compare to the shouts for help.

The Sentinel writes that Ed Primeau, another audio forensics expert, used enhancement technology and "human analysis" to conclude that it was "a young man screaming."

Trayvon Martin Case: Voice Calling For Help Isn't Zimmerman's, Experts Say : The Two-Way : NPR

Except the "experts" emphasize that...

The experts, both of whom said they have testified in cases involving audio analysis, stressed they cannot say who was screaming.


Such analysis could play a role should there be a criminal or civil case over Martin's death.



Primeau, who said he uses a combination of critical listening skills and spectrum analysis, called voice identification "an exact science" that can help a legal team in court.


And standards set by the American Board of Recorded Evidence indicate "there must be at least 10 comparable words between two voice samples to reach a minimal decision criteria."


While Zimmerman says more than that many words on his 911 call, the only one heard on the second is a cry for "help."


But that board's current chairman Gregg Stutchman -- who described Owens as a friend and well-respected in their field -- said that exact metric doesn't necessarily apply to the software Owens used.

David Faigman, a professor of law at the University of California-Hastings and an expert on the admissibility of scientific evidence, said courts and the overall scientific community have mixed opinions about the reliability of such "voiceprint" analysis.

Prosecutor: Account that he, police chief opted not to arrest Martin's shooter a 'lie' - CNN.com
​

Fair enough. I can accept that the voice analysis is in dispute or inconclusive. Point taken and conceded.

Greenie incoming.

 

[Missourian]

13. David Shawn Pope - Dallas County
At David Shawn Pope’s trial, the prosecution relied heavily on the victim’s identification of him. She had been unable to identify him in a photo array, but over a month later, she identified Pope in a live lineup. The prosecution’s evidence also included a “voice print analysis,” which was said to match Pope’s voice to messages left on the victim’s answering machine in the weeks after the crime.

Voice print analysis has since been deemed too unreliable for use in court.

Pope was wrongfully convicted and served 15 years before DNA testing led to his exoneration in 2001.

The Innocence Project - Wrongful Convictions in Texas Overturned with DNA Testing

 

[KissMy]

Fair enough. I can accept that the voice analysis is in dispute or inconclusive. Point taken and conceded.

Greenie incoming.

I have posted those facts about the voice analysis many times before & received racist criticism for them.

It is utterly shocking that a racist like you finally accepts facts over fictional political media.

Thanks for finally being objective.

Steve Cain: One of the nation's leading experts on voiceprint technology.

If you distort your natural speaking voice to the point that you're not giving parallel voice samples you're really not comparing apples and apples. You're comparing apples and oranges. An experienced operator would notice this immediately. If I see this I won't stand for it and I will tell the court I will not accept such a sample and often they'll throw the defendant in jail for failing to comply with the district attorney's request for a natural, undisguised sample."Cain says that it's essential that speech samples contain exactly the same words and phrases as those in the questioned sample, because only identical speech sounds are used for comparison. He says the suspect should not be allowed to read the phrases from a transcript but should repeat each phrase after it is spoken by someone else. To avoid an unnatural response, the suspect should repeat the first phrase and proceed in the same manner with each successive phrase. What are the limits of the accuracy of voiceprints?' The limits," says Cain, "generally are the quality of the evidence it self. It's like any other pattern-matching skill, such as handwriting. You have to have good samples."

This Martin / Zimmerman voice comparison has anything but controlled conditions or good samples. As I read their test, it is not even close to accurate. Any lawyer will impeach their voice print analysis. It is such a poor analysis that doubtful IMHO that it will even be admissible.
.

 

[Missourian]

Fair enough. I can accept that the voice analysis is in dispute or inconclusive. Point taken and conceded.

Greenie incoming.

I like reasonable folks.

I'm also reasonable.

I'll concede that it is probable that we will never know what really happened.

If Zimmerman laid hands on Martin...grabbed his arm, attempted to restrain him in any way or kept Martin from fleeing/retreating...before Martin laid hands on Zimmerman...then Zimmerman is guilty.

And without a witness of the events leading up to the point where Martin is on top of Zimmerman...it's Zimmerman's word and whatever forensic evidence was collected, which, from what I've read, isn't much.

 

[Vidi]

Fair enough. I can accept that the voice analysis is in dispute or inconclusive. Point taken and conceded.

Greenie incoming.

I have posted those facts about the voice analysis many times before & received racist criticism for them.

It is utterly shocking that a racist like you finally accepts facts over fictional political media.

Thanks for finally being objective.

Steve Cain: One of the nation's leading experts on voiceprint technology.

If you distort your natural speaking voice to the point that you're not giving parallel voice samples you're really not comparing apples and apples. You're comparing apples and oranges. An experienced operator would notice this immediately. If I see this I won't stand for it and I will tell the court I will not accept such a sample and often they'll throw the defendant in jail for failing to comply with the district attorney's request for a natural, undisguised sample."Cain says that it's essential that speech samples contain exactly the same words and phrases as those in the questioned sample, because only identical speech sounds are used for comparison. He says the suspect should not be allowed to read the phrases from a transcript but should repeat each phrase after it is spoken by someone else. To avoid an unnatural response, the suspect should repeat the first phrase and proceed in the same manner with each successive phrase. What are the limits of the accuracy of voiceprints?' The limits," says Cain, "generally are the quality of the evidence it self. It's like any other pattern-matching skill, such as handwriting. You have to have good samples."

This Martin / Zimmerman voice comparison has anything but controlled conditions or good samples. As I read their test, it is not even close to accurate. Any lawyer will impeach their voice print analysis. It is such a poor analysis that doubtful IMHO that it will even be admissible.
.

A compliment couched in an insult.

Ummmmm....thanks?


Maybe you'll rethink your incorrect views about me then? Or too much to hope for?

 

[Vidi]

Fair enough. I can accept that the voice analysis is in dispute or inconclusive. Point taken and conceded.

Greenie incoming.

I like reasonable folks.

I'm also reasonable.

I'll concede that it is probable that we will never know what really happened.

If Zimmerman laid hands on Martin...grabbed his arm, attempted to restrain him in any way or kept Martin from fleeing/retreating...before Martin laid hands on Zimmerman...then Zimmerman is guilty.

And without a witness of the events leading up to the point where Martin is on top of Zimmerman...it's Zimmerman's word and whatever forensic evidence was collected, which, from what I've read, isn't much.

I like reasonable people too.

Im going to point out however that under the Stand Your Ground law, a laying on of hands is not necessary. All that is required is that the person felt threatened.

Not sure if I posted them in this thread or one of the many covering this case, but google up other SYG cases. This one is nothing compared to some of the other examples.

BTW, where in Missouri? I grew up in St Charles.

 

[Ariux]

If Zimmerman laid hands on Martin...grabbed his arm, attempted to restrain him in any way or kept Martin from fleeing/retreating...before Martin laid hands on Zimmerman...then Zimmerman is guilty.

However, someone would have to have shut for brains if they think Zimmerman laid hands on the African first. Alas, the skulls of liberals are full of shit.

 

[sitarro]

The girl is 16 right? I wonder how many kids she has and whether she is pregnant with a little baby Trayvon....... time will tell, along with the book that the Martins will have written for them along with the movie of the week that Spike Lee is no doubt working out the details on as we speak.

Whether the girls has any baby's is irrelevant.

So if her testimony is suppose to be taken seriously, shouldn't we know whether she is just saying what the Martin's African lawyer is telling her to say to protect the reputation of her baby daddy?

 

[koshergrl]

And Zimmerman was a clairvoyant who KNEW about this yet to be revealed "information" you are having a wet dream about?

Give me a fucking break, will ya please? The 911 dispatch record shows the world Zimmerman's mindset....and it was fair and balanced, now was it bunky?

The suspension was for a sandwich bag with pot residue.

Yep.....which had NOTHING to do with Zimmerman's actions.

Likewise, Zimmerman's previous arrest record (for charges that were dropped) hasnothing to do with his actions.

 

[earlycuyler]

None of either of there past actions have jack to do with shit. That shit is only fodder for the race pimps and NRA fund raising shit wads, as well as the court of public opinion and boards like thees.

 

[Ariux]

So if her testimony is suppose to be taken seriously, shouldn't we know whether she is just saying what the Martin's African lawyer is telling her to say to protect the reputation of her baby daddy?

If Trayvon told his girlfriend "I think there's a fucking cracker following me. I'm going to be the shit out of his white ass...", do you think there's any chance that this is the story we would have heard from her, through the African lawyer? Nope, it's automatically going to be "he was scared" (like a no-limit-nigga is going to tell his girl that he's scared). Neither of them called 911, and Trayvon didn't try to run away or run home. Instead, Trayvon doubled back and attacked Zimmerman.

Trayvon knows why Zimmerman was looking at him, because he was casing the neighberhood. He knew he's the criminal and Zimmerman is just the white guy catching him up to no good. But, even if Trayvon really had nothing in mind other than getting home in colored people time, why would a 6'3" 17yr-old be more than slightly nervous seeing a lone white guy looking at him.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Hey who you following? You have a problem?

 

[Foxfyre]

I'm sure somebody has already posted this but just for an update, this is significant because not only is Dershowitz a Democrat but when he is featured saying this on a channel like MSNBC, it is probably significant. And Dershowitz's opinion is also being expressed by others as I heard on the early morning new this morning:

Harvard University law professor Alan Dershowitz appeared on MSNBC’s Hardball where fill-in host Michel Smerconish asked him his opinions of the arrest warrant issued and carried out for alleged Trayvon Martin murderer, George Zimmerman. Dershowitz called the affidavit justifying Zimmerman’s arrest “not only thin, it’s irresponsible.” He went on to criticize the decision to charge Zimmerman for second degree murder by special prosecutor Angela Corey as being politically motivated.

“You’ve seen the affidavit of probable cause. What do you make of it,” Smerconish asked. “It won’t suffice,” Dershowitz replied without hesitation.

“Most affidavits of probable cause are very thin. This is so thin that it won’t make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge,” Dershowitz said. “There’s simply nothing in there that would justify second degree murder.”

Harvard Prof. Alan Dershowitz: Zimmerman Arrest Affidavit ‘Irresponsible And Unethical’ | Mediaite

Now if Dershowitz (and others) have a valid point here--I'm not saying they do but am purely the messenger in this case--but IF they do--couldn't that also be a strong factor in why the prosecutor waived a grand jury investigation? She KNEW that a grand jury would never recommend that Zimmerman be charged and she would miss out on all the media glory?

Again it may not be that way at all. But this fish is definitely beginning to smell a bit.

 

[Katzndogz]

Amen to missourian.

Shooting unarmed people walking done the street is a part of your ticket? I'll pick Romney if its close

The cops in Los Angeles pumped 90 rounds into an unarmed teenager because they thought he was armed so what's the point?

 

[MarcATL]

The whole thing stunk from the way the Sanford PD mishandled and perhaps fraudulently mishandled the case.

 

[Katzndogz]

Here is the affidavit.

CLICK HERE: The Zimmerman Affidavit - George Zimmerman - Fox Nation

He can't be convicted on this. For one thing too many lies. It looks like they got the information from the newspapers and not from police work.

 

[Foxfyre]

Here is the affidavit.

CLICK HERE: The Zimmerman Affidavit - George Zimmerman - Fox Nation

He can't be convicted on this. For one thing too many lies. It looks like they got the information from the newspapers and not from police work.

Well, having worked in a law office (in my distant past), having had a course or two in business law, having worked the police and court beats as a reporter, and having worked in the legal system in another capacity, one that required taking lots and lots of recorded statements and participating in affidavits, that affidavit should be embarrassing to ANYBODY who respects either accuracy or competent reporting. But I think you're right. No way anybody could be convicted on that.

 

[taichiliberal]

The suspension was for a sandwich bag with pot residue.

Yep.....which had NOTHING to do with Zimmerman's actions.

Likewise, Zimmerman's previous arrest record (for charges that were dropped) hasnothing to do with his actions.

WRONG! Zimmerman's ARREST RECORD points to pattern, coupled with his documented history of 911 calls points to the frame of mind that was demonstrated the night Martin was shot. And the charges weren't "dropped", as he did "community service" to "expunge" the arrest in one case, and in the other one was instructed by the judge to stay away from his former girlfriend.

 

[taichiliberal]

None of either of there past actions have jack to do with shit. That shit is only fodder for the race pimps and NRA fund raising shit wads, as well as the court of public opinion and boards like thees.

So wtf are YOU doing here then, bunky?