THIS JUST IN on the Zimmerman case....

[taichiliberal]

I'm sure somebody has already posted this but just for an update, this is significant because not only is Dershowitz a Democrat but when he is featured saying this on a channel like MSNBC, it is probably significant. And Dershowitz's opinion is also being expressed by others as I heard on the early morning new this morning:

Harvard University law professor Alan Dershowitz appeared on MSNBC’s Hardball where fill-in host Michel Smerconish asked him his opinions of the arrest warrant issued and carried out for alleged Trayvon Martin murderer, George Zimmerman. Dershowitz called the affidavit justifying Zimmerman’s arrest “not only thin, it’s irresponsible.” He went on to criticize the decision to charge Zimmerman for second degree murder by special prosecutor Angela Corey as being politically motivated.

“You’ve seen the affidavit of probable cause. What do you make of it,” Smerconish asked. “It won’t suffice,” Dershowitz replied without hesitation.

“Most affidavits of probable cause are very thin. This is so thin that it won’t make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge,” Dershowitz said. “There’s simply nothing in there that would justify second degree murder.”

Harvard Prof. Alan Dershowitz: Zimmerman Arrest Affidavit ‘Irresponsible And Unethical’ | Mediaite

Now if Dershowitz (and others) have a valid point here--I'm not saying they do but am purely the messenger in this case--but IF they do--couldn't that also be a strong factor in why the prosecutor waived a grand jury investigation? She KNEW that a grand jury would never recommend that Zimmerman be charged and she would miss out on all the media glory?

Again it may not be that way at all. But this fish is definitely beginning to smell a bit.

Dershowitz OPINION is just that....HIS OPINION!

The chief Det. at the scene saw enough holes in Zimmerman's story to file for arrest. To date, the more information comes out, the more Zimmerman's story stinks to high heaven.

2nd degree murder is being charged so that you have the option of convicting ON A LESSER CHARGE....as opposed to just going for the lesser charge and then having a total dismissal.

 

[Ariux]

The whole thing stunk from the way the Sanford PD mishandled and perhaps fraudulently mishandled the case.

Don't you ever get tired of repeating unsupported, shithead accusations?

 

[taichiliberal]

So if her testimony is suppose to be taken seriously, shouldn't we know whether she is just saying what the Martin's African lawyer is telling her to say to protect the reputation of her baby daddy?

If Trayvon told his girlfriend "I think there's a fucking cracker following me. I'm going to be the shit out of his white ass...", do you think there's any chance that this is the story we would have heard from her, through the African lawyer? Nope, it's automatically going to be "he was scared" (like a no-limit-nigga is going to tell his girl that he's scared). Neither of them called 911, and Trayvon didn't try to run away or run home. Instead, Trayvon doubled back and attacked Zimmerman.

Trayvon knows why Zimmerman was looking at him, because he was casing the neighberhood. He knew he's the criminal and Zimmerman is just the white guy catching him up to no good. But, even if Trayvon really had nothing in mind other than getting home in colored people time, why would a 6'3" 17yr-old be more than slightly nervous seeing a lone white guy looking at him.

I love it when sheet wearing simpletons try to pass off their opinions, supposition and conjecture as fact.

All one has to do is a little honest research to see just how intellectually dishonest this Ariux clown truly is.....hell, just check the source materials presented on this thread for that!

 

[Ariux]

The chief Det. at the scene saw enough holes in Zimmerman's story to file for arrest.

Do you have a link to the detective's affidavit allegedly calling for Zimmerman's arrest?

To date, the more information comes out, the more Zimmerman's story stinks to high heaven.

You're a f-ing moron.

 

[taichiliberal]

Here is the affidavit.

CLICK HERE: The Zimmerman Affidavit - George Zimmerman - Fox Nation

He can't be convicted on this. For one thing too many lies. It looks like they got the information from the newspapers and not from police work.

You need to go back and do some honest research, as the ORIGINAL affidavit was filed BEFORE the new stories hit the national press.

Also, please explain in detail to us all what is a "lie" in this affidavit. NOT your personal opinion, supposition or conjecture, but what is documented "untrue". I'll wait.

 

[taichiliberal]

Here is the affidavit.

CLICK HERE: The Zimmerman Affidavit - George Zimmerman - Fox Nation

He can't be convicted on this. For one thing too many lies. It looks like they got the information from the newspapers and not from police work.

Well, having worked in a law office (in my distant past), having had a course or two in business law, having worked the police and court beats as a reporter, and having worked in the legal system in another capacity, one that required taking lots and lots of recorded statements and participating in affidavits, that affidavit should be embarrassing to ANYBODY who respects either accuracy or competent reporting. But I think you're right. No way anybody could be convicted on that.

Conviction comes from an investigation and TRIAL by jury....NOT just on a affidavit, which merely establishes grounds for arrest. YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS, based on your professed background.

The affidavit does it job.

 

[Liability]

The affidavit offered to establish "probable cause" might meet the test -- more or less.

But a fair and honest presentation of actual evidence before a Grand Jury would have been the preferable route.

 

[taichiliberal]

The chief Det. at the scene saw enough holes in Zimmerman's story to file for arrest.

Do you have a link to the detective's affidavit allegedly calling for Zimmerman's arrest?

No, I have this, which to date has NOT been disputed by Wolfinger or the Police Chief. PLEASE read it carefully and comprehensively:

Sanford cops wanted to charge Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin case - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com

To date, the more information comes out, the more Zimmerman's story stinks to high heaven.

You're a f-ing moron.

What are you, 12 years old? Too bad if the FACTS don't comply with your Drive-by intellectualism. Grow up!

 

[taichiliberal]

The affidavit offered to establish "probable cause" might meet the test -- more or less.

But a fair and honest presentation of actual evidence before a Grand Jury would have been the preferable route.

Noooo, no, no, no.....a "grand jury" doesn't have the same in depth cross examination and open examination of the evidence that a regular trial does.

 

[Liability]

The affidavit offered to establish "probable cause" might meet the test -- more or less.

But a fair and honest presentation of actual evidence before a Grand Jury would have been the preferable route.

Noooo, no, no, no.....a "grand jury" doesn't have the same in depth cross examination and open examination of the evidence that a regular trial does.

No shit.

But we aren't talking about proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

We're still discussing the bringing of a mere set of charges.

For that, there were two options.

1) Evade the function and risks associated with a Grand Jury presentment by lodging the chicken-shit prosecutor's information

OR

2) take the risks, and do things the RIGHT way by letting a Grand Jury decide.

And I STILL reject that the notion that the first way doesn't violate the 5th Amendment.

 

[MarcATL]

Here is the affidavit.

CLICK HERE: The Zimmerman Affidavit - George Zimmerman - Fox Nation

He can't be convicted on this. For one thing too many lies. It looks like they got the information from the newspapers and not from police work.

Well, having worked in a law office (in my distant past), having had a course or two in business law, having worked the police and court beats as a reporter, and having worked in the legal system in another capacity, one that required taking lots and lots of recorded statements and participating in affidavits, that affidavit should be embarrassing to ANYBODY who respects either accuracy or competent reporting. But I think you're right. No way anybody could be convicted on that.

Conviction comes from an investigation and TRIAL by jury....NOT just on a affidavit, which merely establishes grounds for arrest. YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS, based on your professed background.

The affidavit does it job.

You think she's a victim of embellishing to try to seem more important...or is she an out and out damned liar?

 

[Ariux]

The chief Det. at the scene saw enough holes in Zimmerman's story to file for arrest.

Do you have a link to the detective's affidavit allegedly calling for Zimmerman's arrest?

No, I have this, which to date has NOT been disputed by Wolfinger or the Police Chief. PLEASE read it carefully and comprehensively:

Sanford cops wanted to charge Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin case - Trayvon Martin - MiamiHerald.com

(As an aside, you are a f-ing moron.) So, you don't have a link to this alleged affidavit of the "chief detective" thinking Zimmerman should be charged. I didn't think so. Your racist shithead ilk are twisting the police capias (letting the prosecutor decide if there should be charges) as the police thinking Zimmerman should be charged. It's probably standard to do this in all self-defense shootings.

 

[Interpol]

This story has ended up taking the characteristics of the "phone game", where a piece of information comes out and 3 days later the thing of it gets contorted into something it maybe wasn't.

One reason why I think it was a mistake that he wasn't arrested the night of the shooting is a thread like this; the public has been left to its own devices from being given little pieces of a much larger puzzle. Since it seemed like the original investigation was inept, the public seemed to get ahead of what was going on down there and then it just blew up from there.

You can charge someone and then drop the charges later if the investigation proves to defend Zimmerman's side of the story.

I think that SYG got in the way because it was misused that night and I think it allowed for the idea of a thorough investigation to get less focused. There were key witnesses that weren't interviewed for up to a week to a week-and-a-half later. That's unacceptable.

I think had they taken the lead investigator's position, which was to charge him, a good investigation would've happened and this would not have been the crazy ordeal it has now become.

The SYG stuff makes for a great discussion, though, since it is an example of government intrusion into a process that was actually working better before it came along. I'm heartened that the Republican who got this law passed has said he's open to scraping it, because we now see that other situations like these could very well happen with SYG laws hampering both the investigative and judicial process.

Both Zimmerman and Martin deserve a process that works well, no matter what it was that happened.

 

[Ariux]

One reason why I think it was a mistake that he wasn't arrested the night of the shooting is a thread like this; the public has been left to its own devices from being given little pieces of a much larger puzzle. Since it seemed like the original investigation was inept, the public seemed to get ahead of what was going on down there and then it just blew up from there.

Zimmerman was arrested, but the prosecutor declined to charge him. The public has been given a lot of evidence. And, why (other than you being an ignorant parrot) do you think the police investigation was inept?

You can charge someone and then drop the charges later if the investigation proves to defend Zimmerman's side of the story.

They had no reason to charge Zimmerman in the first place. And, charges can always be made later, if the picture changes. It would be inept to charge someone before the case can be made to charge someone.

There were key witnesses that weren't interviewed for up to a week to a week-and-a-half later. That's unacceptable.

Who? The girl on the phone? Aside from her word being worthless, police couldn't have interviewed her the night of the shooting (it takes time to get phone records, etc.). Even if you can find something that could have been done better, nothing is perfect.

I think had they taken the lead investigator's position, which was to charge him, a good investigation would've happened and this would not have been the crazy ordeal it has now become.

Obviously, you didn't read my previous post. There's no evidence the lead investigator wanted to charge Zimmerman.

I'm heartened that the Republican who got this law passed has said he's open to scraping it, because we now see that other situations like these could very well happen with SYG laws hampering both the investigative and judicial process.

The Republican just doesn't want to piss into the Political wind, but he has no interest in changing the law. Besides, even without this law, Zimmerman would still be found not-guilty on traditional self-defense grounds. He was assaulted and he stopped the assault with the gun.

Both Zimmerman and Martin deserve a process that works well, no matter what it was that happened.

Trayvon deserves to be dead.

 

[FireFly]

For those who questioned that he was even *at* a 7 Eleven:

A corporate spokeswoman for 7-Eleven said on Thursday they have a video secured at corporate headquarters showing Martin the night he was killed.

An executive with 7-Eleven viewed the tape and can confirm: "he observed an African American male in a hoodie purchase Skittles and an iced tea between 6 and 6:30 that evening."

Georgia Students Gather In Sanford For Trayvon Martin - Trayvon Martin Extended Coverage News Story - WESH Orlando

It was less than a 15 minute walk from 7 Eleven to where Trayvon was staying. Why did it take him an hour to get back? He had to be doing something other than walking. He may have been casing homes. He also had over 6 minutes to go 800 feet to get into the house he was staying at after Zimmerman dialed 911. It should have only taken 1 or 2 minutes. Martin had to have circled back or hid & launched an ambush on Zimmerman.

 

[Katzndogz]

Here is the affidavit.

CLICK HERE: The Zimmerman Affidavit - George Zimmerman - Fox Nation

He can't be convicted on this. For one thing too many lies. It looks like they got the information from the newspapers and not from police work.

You need to go back and do some honest research, as the ORIGINAL affidavit was filed BEFORE the new stories hit the national press.

Also, please explain in detail to us all what is a "lie" in this affidavit. NOT your personal opinion, supposition or conjecture, but what is documented "untrue". I'll wait.

For one thing, it was a complete lie that the dispatcher told Zimmerman not to follow Martin. From the 911 tape itself we know that isn't true. There was no original affidavit to support an arrest warrant until the prosecutor determined there would be a charge which didn't come for weeks. This order not to follow came out of the papers, not what really happened.

If you are waiting for someone to come forward and attack the affidavit and think the reason they haven't done so is because it is so factual as to be unassialable you are just plain wrong. To YOU this case is being tried in the media and every word in the media is under oath., In reality any challenge to the affidavit will be made at pre-trial motion hearing when the defense brings their Motion to Quash.

 

[Dick Tuck]

For those who questioned that he was even *at* a 7 Eleven:

A corporate spokeswoman for 7-Eleven said on Thursday they have a video secured at corporate headquarters showing Martin the night he was killed.

An executive with 7-Eleven viewed the tape and can confirm: "he observed an African American male in a hoodie purchase Skittles and an iced tea between 6 and 6:30 that evening."

Georgia Students Gather In Sanford For Trayvon Martin - Trayvon Martin Extended Coverage News Story - WESH Orlando

It was less than a 15 minute walk from 7 Eleven to where Trayvon was staying. Why did it take him an hour to get back? He had to be doing something other than walking. He may have been casing homes. He also had over 6 minutes to go 800 feet to get into the house he was staying at after Zimmerman dialed 911. It should have only taken 1 or 2 minutes. Martin had to have circled back or hid & launched an ambush on Zimmerman.

What the fuck do you care? Did Martin commit a crime before Zimmerman profiled him, stalked him, chased him, and then killed him? Do you think that those who Zimmerman called "fucking coons" don't have the right to walk around?

You're quite a pig.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well, having worked in a law office (in my distant past), having had a course or two in business law, having worked the police and court beats as a reporter, and having worked in the legal system in another capacity, one that required taking lots and lots of recorded statements and participating in affidavits, that affidavit should be embarrassing to ANYBODY who respects either accuracy or competent reporting. But I think you're right. No way anybody could be convicted on that.

Conviction comes from an investigation and TRIAL by jury....NOT just on a affidavit, which merely establishes grounds for arrest. YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS, based on your professed background.

The affidavit does it job.

You think she's a victim of embellishing to try to seem more important...or is she an out and out damned liar?

I don't claim any importance and I try hard not to embellish whatever modest credentials I have. I am only pointing out why I think my opinion is informed. Of course those dismissing my opinion as purely opinion do not seem to dismiss their own opinion do they?

Nor do those asking the combative, snarky, judgmental questions.

I am no fan of Alan Dershowitz. But I do consider him to be of sufficient experience, education, and credibility to accept his opinion as an informed opinion.

 

[taichiliberal]

The affidavit offered to establish "probable cause" might meet the test -- more or less.

But a fair and honest presentation of actual evidence before a Grand Jury would have been the preferable route.

Noooo, no, no, no.....a "grand jury" doesn't have the same in depth cross examination and open examination of the evidence that a regular trial does.

No shit.

But we aren't talking about proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

We're still discussing the bringing of a mere set of charges.

For that, there were two options.

1) Evade the function and risks associated with a Grand Jury presentment by lodging the chicken-shit prosecutor's information

OR

2) take the risks, and do things the RIGHT way by letting a Grand Jury decide.

And I STILL reject that the notion that the first way doesn't violate the 5th Amendment.

And let me just deflate your gasbag here from the the top:


No shit.

But we aren't talking about proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

We're still discussing the bringing of a mere set of charges.

You acknowledge that I'm right with your first two words. So anything else is just a parroting of your original opinion, which is meaningless. Also, whether you like it or not, we ARE discussing the basis for arrest, which is blatantly apparent...so much so that you had a State Attorney go out of his way to prevent and then try to shield himself from his dubious decision by recusing himself. Well bunky, the charges have been made, the arrest has been made and NOW it's up to the judge to bring it to court so Zimmerman can be judged by his peers, and where "reasonable doubt" is paramount in establishing his credibility and innocence or guilt. Deal with it.

 

[Katzndogz]

For those who questioned that he was even *at* a 7 Eleven:
Georgia Students Gather In Sanford For Trayvon Martin - Trayvon Martin Extended Coverage News Story - WESH Orlando

It was less than a 15 minute walk from 7 Eleven to where Trayvon was staying. Why did it take him an hour to get back? He had to be doing something other than walking. He may have been casing homes. He also had over 6 minutes to go 800 feet to get into the house he was staying at after Zimmerman dialed 911. It should have only taken 1 or 2 minutes. Martin had to have circled back or hid & launched an ambush on Zimmerman.

What the fuck do you care? Did Martin commit a crime before Zimmerman profiled him, stalked him, chased him, and then killed him? Do you think that those who Zimmerman called "fucking coons" don't have the right to walk around?

You're quite a pig.

Since Zimmerman never said fucking coons (except to you) we'll never know.