This one is for the gun grabbers. Explain this.

[Slade3200]

Just don't see how laws stop people who ignore them.

Not saying don't look for answers but if more laws equates to less crime, I could never explain Chicago or LA gang violence.

Well laws do work to some degree to help crime. We aren't living in the wild west anymore nor are we living in Central Africa or areas in the middle east that are basically run by gangs, thugs and violent corruption. So with that said we know that the rule of law is conducive to a civilized and safe society. There is no universal system that will work everywhere so the needs of each city and society need to be analyzed so the best laws, and enforcement policies are put in place.

There will never be a solution that gets rid of all violence or all gun violence or all mass shootings, but there are things that can be done to limit the consistency and the damage that is done. We need to be able to have a conversation about the realistic middle ground and not about the extreme absolutes.

Agreed. Like I said all for searching for a solution, just more laws to me isn't it.

I agree with that... I think community programs, better education and improved financial opportunity is the key. I also think legalizing drugs will do a big part in defunding the gangs and opening up legitimate financial opportunities.

Better education? Most of the inner city thugs only go to school to deal or buy drugs, or they don't go at all.

You can't teach someone if they are not there!

And better education comes from home--not the schools. If the parent is not going to get involved or care, there isn't a school in the country that will be able to teach that kid anything.

You aren’t having a very good night ray. Not every kid is fortunate enough to have parents who care. Teachers, coaches, counselors and community program leaders play a tremendous role in the lives of many children. Are you just making this stuff up?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well laws do work to some degree to help crime. We aren't living in the wild west anymore nor are we living in Central Africa or areas in the middle east that are basically run by gangs, thugs and violent corruption. So with that said we know that the rule of law is conducive to a civilized and safe society. There is no universal system that will work everywhere so the needs of each city and society need to be analyzed so the best laws, and enforcement policies are put in place.

There will never be a solution that gets rid of all violence or all gun violence or all mass shootings, but there are things that can be done to limit the consistency and the damage that is done. We need to be able to have a conversation about the realistic middle ground and not about the extreme absolutes.

Agreed. Like I said all for searching for a solution, just more laws to me isn't it.

I agree with that... I think community programs, better education and improved financial opportunity is the key. I also think legalizing drugs will do a big part in defunding the gangs and opening up legitimate financial opportunities.

Better education? Most of the inner city thugs only go to school to deal or buy drugs, or they don't go at all.

You can't teach someone if they are not there!

And better education comes from home--not the schools. If the parent is not going to get involved or care, there isn't a school in the country that will be able to teach that kid anything.

You aren’t having a very good night ray. Not every kid is fortunate enough to have parents who care. Teachers, coaches, counselors and community program leaders play a tremendous role in the lives of many children. Are you just making this stuff up?

Not at all. Living in a black community I see it firsthand.

One of the associated problems is single-parent households which blacks lead the race on. After the kid gets to a certain age (particularly males) the mother loses control over the kid. After that, he does as he pleases.

In our suburb, they created a three call limit. That means after three police calls to a residence, the property owner is assessed a cost for each additional call. Why this law? Because most of our calls to police are about the kids, and many of those calls come from the black mothers of these kids. We don't have the resources or the time for our police to be surrogate fathers.

I have also seen it right next door which is a story I told repeatedly. If you missed it in the past, I'll be glad to tell it again. I just don't want to bore people with repeated stories.

 

[Slade3200]

Agreed. Like I said all for searching for a solution, just more laws to me isn't it.

I agree with that... I think community programs, better education and improved financial opportunity is the key. I also think legalizing drugs will do a big part in defunding the gangs and opening up legitimate financial opportunities.

Better education? Most of the inner city thugs only go to school to deal or buy drugs, or they don't go at all.

You can't teach someone if they are not there!

And better education comes from home--not the schools. If the parent is not going to get involved or care, there isn't a school in the country that will be able to teach that kid anything.

You aren’t having a very good night ray. Not every kid is fortunate enough to have parents who care. Teachers, coaches, counselors and community program leaders play a tremendous role in the lives of many children. Are you just making this stuff up?

Not at all. Living in a black community I see it firsthand.

One of the associated problems is single-parent households which blacks lead the race on. After the kid gets to a certain age (particularly males) the mother loses control over the kid. After that, he does as he pleases.

In our suburb, they created a three call limit. That means after three police calls to a residence, the property owner is assessed a cost for each additional call. Why this law? Because most of our calls to police are about the kids, and many of those calls come from the black mothers of these kids. We don't have the resources or the time for our police to be surrogate fathers.

I have also seen it right next door which is a story I told repeatedly. If you missed it in the past, I'll be glad to tell it again. I just don't want to bore people with repeated stories.

No need, I understand the point you are trying to make and don’t deny that those are factors that contribute to the problem. But back to my points, it all stems from poverty, lack of education and lack of opportunity. And for many kids, school is the only safe haven and place for opportunity that they have. You trying to dismiss the positive effects that schools can have on at risk youth is extremely short sighted

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I agree with that... I think community programs, better education and improved financial opportunity is the key. I also think legalizing drugs will do a big part in defunding the gangs and opening up legitimate financial opportunities.

Don't you believe that.

Years ago they sold us on having a lottery. Supposedly, it was to eliminate illegal gambling. The mob just started to use the states lottery numbers to run their games. Of course, their payout is higher.

In the few states that have legalized pot, it didn't stop illegal pot sales one bit. They just reduced their prices to stay in business.

Legalizing all narcotics would only make the problems worse, and no, it would not stop gang violence.

Nothing will stop gang violence and you obviously don’t know what your talking about when it comes to poor sales. Legalization absolutely reduced the funds going through the illegal market. I’ve seen it first hand plus it’s simple supply and demand economics

So you would rather live in an area where all drugs are legal compared to one that has tough restrictions?

Under that line of thinking, if we got rid of DUI laws, that would make our roads safer.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I agree with that... I think community programs, better education and improved financial opportunity is the key. I also think legalizing drugs will do a big part in defunding the gangs and opening up legitimate financial opportunities.

Better education? Most of the inner city thugs only go to school to deal or buy drugs, or they don't go at all.

You can't teach someone if they are not there!

And better education comes from home--not the schools. If the parent is not going to get involved or care, there isn't a school in the country that will be able to teach that kid anything.

You aren’t having a very good night ray. Not every kid is fortunate enough to have parents who care. Teachers, coaches, counselors and community program leaders play a tremendous role in the lives of many children. Are you just making this stuff up?

Not at all. Living in a black community I see it firsthand.

One of the associated problems is single-parent households which blacks lead the race on. After the kid gets to a certain age (particularly males) the mother loses control over the kid. After that, he does as he pleases.

In our suburb, they created a three call limit. That means after three police calls to a residence, the property owner is assessed a cost for each additional call. Why this law? Because most of our calls to police are about the kids, and many of those calls come from the black mothers of these kids. We don't have the resources or the time for our police to be surrogate fathers.

I have also seen it right next door which is a story I told repeatedly. If you missed it in the past, I'll be glad to tell it again. I just don't want to bore people with repeated stories.

No need, I understand the point you are trying to make and don’t deny that those are factors that contribute to the problem. But back to my points, it all stems from poverty, lack of education and lack of opportunity. And for many kids, school is the only safe haven and place for opportunity that they have. You trying to dismiss the positive effects that schools can have on at risk youth is extremely short sighted

No, my only point is that the United States spends more per capita on primary education than any other industrialized country in the world, yet we are only mediocre in results to show for it.

So tell me, where is this lack of education you speak of? Because if you took an entire school of low income kids, sent them to a suburban school, and did the reverse with the suburban school kids, you wouldn't see much of a change.

It's less the education than it is the people there for the education. When our suburb was white, we had the highest performance results in the county, now that it's black, we have one of the lowest.

So what changed? What changed is the family structure. The school buildings are not the same, in fact, we built all new schools several years ago. Our teachers are still paid well. Every levy passes. It's not the educational system.

 

[RWNJ]

Part of the reason that there is so much violence and crime in the big cities is because the people are closely pressed together and don't have time to decompress from constant contact.

If you put a bunch of rats together in an area where they each have enough room, they are peaceful and will coexist.

If you place a whole bunch of rats together in an area where they are crawling all over each other, they will end up fighting and killing each other until there is enough room to comfortably accommodate the survivors.

In that case, why don't the Japanese, Chinese and Indians kill each other? They are stacked like cord wood.

They don't have millions of guns lying around .

/ end thread.

More people are killed by blunt objects than assault weapons.

It's a lot harder to kill someone with a blunt object .

And yet blunt objects kill more people than rifles. Why aren't you bozo's trying to ban blunt objects? They're a menace. Someone needs to do something...LOL! Idiot.

 

[RWNJ]

I agree with that... I think community programs, better education and improved financial opportunity is the key. I also think legalizing drugs will do a big part in defunding the gangs and opening up legitimate financial opportunities.

Don't you believe that.

Years ago they sold us on having a lottery. Supposedly, it was to eliminate illegal gambling. The mob just started to use the states lottery numbers to run their games. Of course, their payout is higher.

In the few states that have legalized pot, it didn't stop illegal pot sales one bit. They just reduced their prices to stay in business.

Legalizing all narcotics would only make the problems worse, and no, it would not stop gang violence.

Nothing will stop gang violence and you obviously don’t know what your talking about when it comes to poor sales. Legalization absolutely reduced the funds going through the illegal market. I’ve seen it first hand plus it’s simple supply and demand economics

So you would rather live in an area where all drugs are legal compared to one that has tough restrictions?

Under that line of thinking, if we got rid of DUI laws, that would make our roads safer.

By that same logic, getting rid of all guns laws should make everyone safer. Libs are so silly. They can actually believe two totally contradictory things at the same time, as has been proven on this thread.

 

[RWNJ]

Part of the reason that there is so much violence and crime in the big cities is because the people are closely pressed together and don't have time to decompress from constant contact.

If you put a bunch of rats together in an area where they each have enough room, they are peaceful and will coexist.

If you place a whole bunch of rats together in an area where they are crawling all over each other, they will end up fighting and killing each other until there is enough room to comfortably accommodate the survivors.

In that case, why don't the Japanese, Chinese and Indians kill each other? They are stacked like cord wood.

They don't have millions of guns lying around .

/ end thread.

More people are killed by blunt objects than assault weapons.

Great.
One guy cannot use a blunt object to kill nearly sixty people and injure another five hundred.

The number of deaths by mass shooters is insignificant compared to the rest of murders committed. It's not even a blip on the radar. And the fact remains that blunt objects are more dangerous than "assault" rifles. Does it hurt to be this clueless?

 

[RWNJ]

I agree with that... I think community programs, better education and improved financial opportunity is the key. I also think legalizing drugs will do a big part in defunding the gangs and opening up legitimate financial opportunities.

Better education? Most of the inner city thugs only go to school to deal or buy drugs, or they don't go at all.

You can't teach someone if they are not there!

And better education comes from home--not the schools. If the parent is not going to get involved or care, there isn't a school in the country that will be able to teach that kid anything.

You aren’t having a very good night ray. Not every kid is fortunate enough to have parents who care. Teachers, coaches, counselors and community program leaders play a tremendous role in the lives of many children. Are you just making this stuff up?

Not at all. Living in a black community I see it firsthand.

One of the associated problems is single-parent households which blacks lead the race on. After the kid gets to a certain age (particularly males) the mother loses control over the kid. After that, he does as he pleases.

In our suburb, they created a three call limit. That means after three police calls to a residence, the property owner is assessed a cost for each additional call. Why this law? Because most of our calls to police are about the kids, and many of those calls come from the black mothers of these kids. We don't have the resources or the time for our police to be surrogate fathers.

I have also seen it right next door which is a story I told repeatedly. If you missed it in the past, I'll be glad to tell it again. I just don't want to bore people with repeated stories.

No need, I understand the point you are trying to make and don’t deny that those are factors that contribute to the problem. But back to my points, it all stems from poverty, lack of education and lack of opportunity. And for many kids, school is the only safe haven and place for opportunity that they have. You trying to dismiss the positive effects that schools can have on at risk youth is extremely short sighted

Poverty is no excuse. And like I said earlier, there are more poor white people than poor black people. So why do poor blacks commit the majority of crime compared to poor whites? I'm poor. You don't see ME out there committing crimes. Do you?

 

[Vandalshandle]

Wyoming has more guns per capita than any other state. They have open carry, and you do not need a permit to carry concealed. Yet the crime rate is 40 percent less than the national average, with some cities well below that. Some of them are among the safest places to live in America. So, if guns are the problem, as you believe, why aren't people being gunned down in the streets?

This a a joke, right? What is the punch line? It is also a fact that fewer ocean going boats sink in Wyoming than in the coastal waters of California?

 

[Timmy]

Better education? Most of the inner city thugs only go to school to deal or buy drugs, or they don't go at all.

You can't teach someone if they are not there!

And better education comes from home--not the schools. If the parent is not going to get involved or care, there isn't a school in the country that will be able to teach that kid anything.

You aren’t having a very good night ray. Not every kid is fortunate enough to have parents who care. Teachers, coaches, counselors and community program leaders play a tremendous role in the lives of many children. Are you just making this stuff up?

Not at all. Living in a black community I see it firsthand.

One of the associated problems is single-parent households which blacks lead the race on. After the kid gets to a certain age (particularly males) the mother loses control over the kid. After that, he does as he pleases.

In our suburb, they created a three call limit. That means after three police calls to a residence, the property owner is assessed a cost for each additional call. Why this law? Because most of our calls to police are about the kids, and many of those calls come from the black mothers of these kids. We don't have the resources or the time for our police to be surrogate fathers.

I have also seen it right next door which is a story I told repeatedly. If you missed it in the past, I'll be glad to tell it again. I just don't want to bore people with repeated stories.

No need, I understand the point you are trying to make and don’t deny that those are factors that contribute to the problem. But back to my points, it all stems from poverty, lack of education and lack of opportunity. And for many kids, school is the only safe haven and place for opportunity that they have. You trying to dismiss the positive effects that schools can have on at risk youth is extremely short sighted

No, my only point is that the United States spends more per capita on primary education than any other industrialized country in the world, yet we are only mediocre in results to show for it.

So tell me, where is this lack of education you speak of? Because if you took an entire school of low income kids, sent them to a suburban school, and did the reverse with the suburban school kids, you wouldn't see much of a change.

It's less the education than it is the people there for the education. When our suburb was white, we had the highest performance results in the county, now that it's black, we have one of the lowest.

So what changed? What changed is the family structure. The school buildings are not the same, in fact, we built all new schools several years ago. Our teachers are still paid well. Every levy passes. It's not the educational system.

Wrong .

It's because we educate EVERYONE! Handicapped for example . That gets expensive . We also have lots of sports and extracurricular activities.

You want to save money . Tell families "your retard can't go to school." Or " sorry, we ain't taking your cripple who can't get up the stairs" .

While you at it, tell Jonny football to go find some club team to play for. .

 

[Timmy]

Better education? Most of the inner city thugs only go to school to deal or buy drugs, or they don't go at all.

You can't teach someone if they are not there!

And better education comes from home--not the schools. If the parent is not going to get involved or care, there isn't a school in the country that will be able to teach that kid anything.

You aren’t having a very good night ray. Not every kid is fortunate enough to have parents who care. Teachers, coaches, counselors and community program leaders play a tremendous role in the lives of many children. Are you just making this stuff up?

Not at all. Living in a black community I see it firsthand.

One of the associated problems is single-parent households which blacks lead the race on. After the kid gets to a certain age (particularly males) the mother loses control over the kid. After that, he does as he pleases.

In our suburb, they created a three call limit. That means after three police calls to a residence, the property owner is assessed a cost for each additional call. Why this law? Because most of our calls to police are about the kids, and many of those calls come from the black mothers of these kids. We don't have the resources or the time for our police to be surrogate fathers.

I have also seen it right next door which is a story I told repeatedly. If you missed it in the past, I'll be glad to tell it again. I just don't want to bore people with repeated stories.

No need, I understand the point you are trying to make and don’t deny that those are factors that contribute to the problem. But back to my points, it all stems from poverty, lack of education and lack of opportunity. And for many kids, school is the only safe haven and place for opportunity that they have. You trying to dismiss the positive effects that schools can have on at risk youth is extremely short sighted

Poverty is no excuse. And like I said earlier, there are more poor white people than poor black people. So why do poor blacks commit the majority of crime compared to poor whites? I'm poor. And you don' see ME out there committing crimes. Do you?

Let me ask you . If someone commits a crime, but doesn't get arrested . Is a "crime " commited per FBI stats ?

 

[Pogo]

I agree with that... I think community programs, better education and improved financial opportunity is the key. I also think legalizing drugs will do a big part in defunding the gangs and opening up legitimate financial opportunities.

Don't you believe that.

Years ago they sold us on having a lottery. Supposedly, it was to eliminate illegal gambling. The mob just started to use the states lottery numbers to run their games. Of course, their payout is higher.

In the few states that have legalized pot, it didn't stop illegal pot sales one bit. They just reduced their prices to stay in business.

Legalizing all narcotics would only make the problems worse, and no, it would not stop gang violence.

Nothing will stop gang violence and you obviously don’t know what your talking about when it comes to poor sales. Legalization absolutely reduced the funds going through the illegal market. I’ve seen it first hand plus it’s simple supply and demand economics

So you would rather live in an area where all drugs are legal compared to one that has tough restrictions?

Under that line of thinking, if we got rid of DUI laws, that would make our roads safer.

By that same logic, getting rid of all guns laws should make everyone safer. Libs are so silly. They can actually believe two totally contradictory things at the same time, as has been proven on this thread.

Two things like (1) that you used a strawman to launch your own OP and (2) that you're a racist fuck?

Actually those are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Florida needs to send a Blue Ribbon committee to Wyoming to study just how Wyoming has completely eliminated shark attacks in that state!

 

[2aguy]

I noticed you didn't post the actual list of most dangerous states : from the FBI STATS you love.


10- Arkansas
Florida
Maryland
Delaware
South Carolina
Louisiana
Tennessee
Nevada
New Mexico
1- Alaska .

All gun nut states , except for Maryland .

The Most Dangerous States in America

Do you know why those states are dangerous? It's because they have large cities that vote democrat. The majority of crime is in those democrat cities Just look at the crime rate in Tampa Bay, vs the rest of the state. The rest of the sate is cool to live in.

What's your point ? States control the gun laws . More guns = less crime is the premis of this thread .

If democrats were the problem then the worst list would be all democratic states now wouldn't it ?

You are either a fool or deliberately disingenuous. I repeat. Those states have large cities where most of the crime happens. The rural areas are reletively crime free.

Alaska is #1 ! What state has more rural areas than AK!?

No...Alaska is there because of suicide.....not gun murder or crime....

 

[2aguy]

I'm simply stating the facts. It's not racist. It's statistics. Blacks are responsible for most violent crime. More precisely, it's a small percentage of blacks. Can you deny this?

No I don't deny it. I also don't think it is a useful thing to focus on. The root cause is poverty and gang culture. Placing blame on the "blacks" is only going to fuel devision. Can you deny that?

And yet poor white people are only responsible for 5 percent of crime. Probably less.

Liar !

Seriously , you righties are so disingenuous. Wyo has 5 people per square mile . No one lives there!

Another one who agrees it's not the guns fault. Thanks for playing.

Right . It's the easy access that's the problem. Gun control states still have guns . There's just better vetting that keeps them out of bad guys hands .

No...vetting does not keep them out of the hands of criminals...as the gun murder rates in democrat controlled cities show.

 

[2aguy]

Part of the reason that there is so much violence and crime in the big cities is because the people are closely pressed together and don't have time to decompress from constant contact.

If you put a bunch of rats together in an area where they each have enough room, they are peaceful and will coexist.

If you place a whole bunch of rats together in an area where they are crawling all over each other, they will end up fighting and killing each other until there is enough room to comfortably accommodate the survivors.

In that case, why don't the Japanese, Chinese and Indians kill each other? They are stacked like cord wood.

They don't have millions of guns lying around .

/ end thread.

More people are killed by blunt objects than assault weapons.

Great.
One guy cannot use a blunt object to kill nearly sixty people and injure another five hundred.

And yet in 2016 mass public shooters murdered 71 people....blunt objects murdered 472....a rental truck in Nice, France murdered 89......injuring 450.....and knives are used to murder over 1,500 people every single year, 1,604 in 2016...

Is it the number of dead you are concerned with...? Or just one episode?

 

[Timmy]

No I don't deny it. I also don't think it is a useful thing to focus on. The root cause is poverty and gang culture. Placing blame on the "blacks" is only going to fuel devision. Can you deny that?

And yet poor white people are only responsible for 5 percent of crime. Probably less.

Liar !

Seriously , you righties are so disingenuous. Wyo has 5 people per square mile . No one lives there!

Another one who agrees it's not the guns fault. Thanks for playing.

Right . It's the easy access that's the problem. Gun control states still have guns . There's just better vetting that keeps them out of bad guys hands .

No...vetting does not keep them out of the hands of criminals...as the gun murder rates in democrat controlled cities show.

Another gun nut tactic . Blame "democratic cities ". Really easy to do when all cities are democratic .

States control gun laws .

 

[2aguy]

And yet poor white people are only responsible for 5 percent of crime. Probably less.

Liar !

Seriously , you righties are so disingenuous. Wyo has 5 people per square mile . No one lives there!

Another one who agrees it's not the guns fault. Thanks for playing.

Right . It's the easy access that's the problem. Gun control states still have guns . There's just better vetting that keeps them out of bad guys hands .

Is that so? And what states would you be talking about here?

I believe the toughest gun laws are in. Mass , NY,Cali, conn , Hawaii .

Chicago, New York, and L.A. all have the same gun laws, all have access to out of city guns...and Chicago has a higher gun murder number than both NY and LA combined...it isn't guns...it is law enforcement, and the gang culture in the cities...

 

[2aguy]

And yet poor white people are only responsible for 5 percent of crime. Probably less.

Liar !

Seriously , you righties are so disingenuous. Wyo has 5 people per square mile . No one lives there!

Another one who agrees it's not the guns fault. Thanks for playing.

Right . It's the easy access that's the problem. Gun control states still have guns . There's just better vetting that keeps them out of bad guys hands .

No...vetting does not keep them out of the hands of criminals...as the gun murder rates in democrat controlled cities show.

Another gun nut tactic . Blame "democratic cities ". Really easy to do when all cities are democratic .

States control gun laws .

Nope.....considering those cities have policies that attack the police, release violent criminals back onto the streets and disarm law abiding citizens.