Three of A Kind: Environmentalism, Communism, and Failure

[Derideo_Te]

Once again the OP fails to substantiate her ludicrous premise. There was nothing in the Communist Manifesto about environmentalism and no environmentalist espouses communism.

Onus is on PoliticalSpice to provide the links and quotes to prove that there is a connection.

Needless to say her kneejerk response will be the predictable feeble attempt to belittle any criticism that she cannot refute.

back in the original days of communism, that would be correct. The movement has evolved into using climate as their new format to transformation of the manifesto.

Onus is on you to provide this fictional "updated communist manifesto" and indicate exactly where it allegedly embraces environmentalism.

onus is on me? The grant and funding already does that.
link: UN IPCC Official Admits We Redistribute World s Wealth By Climate Policy

That is not an "updated communist manifesto".

That is a link to a rabid extremist rightwing disinformation website.

Try again.

asked and answered

Assumes facts most definitely not in evidence.

 

[Camp]

Once again the OP fails to substantiate her ludicrous premise. There was nothing in the Communist Manifesto about environmentalism and no environmentalist espouses communism.

Onus is on PoliticalSpice to provide the links and quotes to prove that there is a connection.

Needless to say her kneejerk response will be the predictable feeble attempt to belittle any criticism that she cannot refute.

back in the original days of communism, that would be correct. The movement has evolved into using climate as their new format to transformation of the manifesto.

Onus is on you to provide this fictional "updated communist manifesto" and indicate exactly where it allegedly embraces environmentalism.

onus is on me? The grant and funding already does that.
link: UN IPCC Official Admits We Redistribute World s Wealth By Climate Policy

That is not an "updated communist manifesto".

That is a link to a rabid extremist rightwing disinformation website.

Try again.

asked and answered

 

[jc456]

back in the original days of communism, that would be correct. The movement has evolved into using climate as their new format to transformation of the manifesto.

Onus is on you to provide this fictional "updated communist manifesto" and indicate exactly where it allegedly embraces environmentalism.

onus is on me? The grant and funding already does that.
link: UN IPCC Official Admits We Redistribute World s Wealth By Climate Policy

That is not an "updated communist manifesto".

That is a link to a rabid extremist rightwing disinformation website.

Try again.

asked and answered

Assumes facts most definitely not in evidence.

yepper

 

[jc456]

from townhall.com link...UN Climate Chief Says Communism is Best Way to Fight Global Warming - Heather Ginsberg

 

[jc456]

from 2009 world socialist web site: Marxism socialism and climate change - World Socialist Web Site

 

[Statistikhengst]

back in the original days of communism, that would be correct. The movement has evolved into using climate as their new format to transformation of the manifesto.

Onus is on you to provide this fictional "updated communist manifesto" and indicate exactly where it allegedly embraces environmentalism.

onus is on me? The grant and funding already does that.
link: UN IPCC Official Admits We Redistribute World s Wealth By Climate Policy

That is not an "updated communist manifesto".

That is a link to a rabid extremist rightwing disinformation website.

Try again.

asked and answered

Yes, jc456 ,

 

[Camp]

from 2009 world socialist web site: Marxism socialism and climate change - World Socialist Web Site

You should read your links before posting them.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Still no "updated communist manifesto" provided by jc456.

Obviously he cannot substantiate anything.

 

[Statistikhengst]

from townhall.com link...UN Climate Chief Says Communism is Best Way to Fight Global Warming - Heather Ginsberg

Only, that's not what Ms. Figueres said.

Righties really do have a problem with the truth, now don't they.....

They create their own facts.

Amazing.

 

[jc456]

Still no "updated communist manifesto" provided by jc456.

Obviously he cannot substantiate anything.

 

[jc456]

from townhall.com link...UN Climate Chief Says Communism is Best Way to Fight Global Warming - Heather Ginsberg

Only, that's not what Ms. Figueres said.

Righties really do have a problem with the truth, now don't they.....

They create their own facts.

Amazing.

I provided a factual source.

 

[jc456]

back in the original days of communism, that would be correct. The movement has evolved into using climate as their new format to transformation of the manifesto.

Onus is on you to provide this fictional "updated communist manifesto" and indicate exactly where it allegedly embraces environmentalism.

onus is on me? The grant and funding already does that.
link: UN IPCC Official Admits We Redistribute World s Wealth By Climate Policy

That is not an "updated communist manifesto".

That is a link to a rabid extremist rightwing disinformation website.

Try again.

asked and answered

i see you can't handle the truth!!

 

[westwall]

Yes, that is called propaganda. You are well versed in it. The private writings, and the recorded conversations make it very plain that Hitler was an atheist. There is NO doubt about that. The fact that he was raised Catholic doesn't matter a bit. Most atheists come from homes that were religious so your argument is pointless.

Except the only evidence for Hitler's supposed atheism is a book called "Hitler's Table Talk", which has been largely discredited.

Hitler s Table Talk

The problem with these anti-Christian quotes is that the German text of the table-talk does not include them, they were made up by François Genoud, the translator of the French version, the very version that English translations rely on! (More on this below).

Even if you believed the table-talk included the anti-Christian quotes, nowhere in the talk does Hitler speak against Jesus or his own brand of Christianity. On the contrary, the table-talk has Hitler speaking admirably about Jesus. Hitler did, of course criticize organized religion in a political sense (as do many Christians today), but never in a religious sense. But the problems with using Hitler's table talk conversations as evidence for Hitler's apostasy are manyfold:

1) The reliability of the source (hearsay and editing by the anti-Catholic, Bormann)

2) The reliability of multiple translations, from German to French to English.

3) The bias of the translators (especially Genoud).

4) The table-talk reflects thoughts that do not occur in Hitler's other private or public conversations.

5) Nowhere does Hitler denounce Jesus or his own brand of Christianity.

6) The "anti-Christian" portions of Table-Talk does not concur with Hitler's actions for "positive" Christianity.

As usual, you're statement is not born out by fact. There are MANY sources that show Hitler to be an atheist. Here are just a very few....

“Hitler naturally wanted to bring the church into line with everything else in his scheme of things. He knew he dare not simply eradicate it: that would not have been possible with such an international organisation, and he would have lost many Christian supporters had he tried to. His principal aim was to unify the German Evangelical Church under a pro-Nazi banner, and to come to an accommodation with the Catholics.” – An Honourable Defeat: A History of German Resistance to Hitler, 1933-1945, by Anton Gil

“Adolf Hitler … was a disciple of Friedrich Nietzsche. … Hitler hated Christianity with a passion which rivaled Lenin’s. Shortly after assuming power in 1933, he told Hermann Rauschnig that he intended ‘to stamp out Christianity root and branch.’ ‘One is either a Christian or a German — you cannot be both,’ he added. … He said, ‘I want a powerful, masterly, cruel and fearless youth. … The freedom and dignity of the wild beast must shine from their eyes.’” – Historian Paul Johnson

"Amid his political associates in Berlin, Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church, but in the presence of women he adopted a milder tone - one of the instances where he adapted his remarks to the surroundings."-Albert Speer, Inside the Third Reich, Phoenix, pp.148-149.

So, the Speer quote is meaningless.

Paul Johnson is an EXTREME Right-Wing author. Not surprisingly, he got the Presidential Medal of Honor from Bush in 2006. And even that quote of yours shows in no way that Hitler was an atheist or intended to destroy Christianity. Hell, Hitler couldn't even cancel KARNEVAL in Köln, the people of the city refused to let him do it. And Köln is a Catholic bastion within Germany, to this day.

You misspelled Anton Gill's name. He is mostly a FICTION writer. That being said, his book looks quite interesting, I may just read it, since it is about the resistance. I assume that the White Rose and Goerdeler are in the book. I find the Gill quote to be not bad. But it also shows in no way that Hitler was an atheist.

Why do you keep presenting material that doesn't actually back up your point?

you clown faces

How ironic coming from another "clown face".

This clown face doesn't whine to momma when things don't go his way.

 

[westwall]

The liberal spirit of collectivism is the same thing Hitler used to gain consensus against the Jewish people. The Ends then justified the means, any means to rid itself of these people they deemed unfit or a problem in their grand scheme of global control. And just like many collectivists before him they came to violent ends. Stalin, Marx, Mao, all of these individuals murdered millions of people before the people took them out at great cost.

Marx never had political power, and Stalin and Mao died peacefully in their beds.

As for Hitler, Hitler was just the end result of a major religion who said, "The Jews Killed our God-Man".

Yes, Stalin died peacefully, but 60 to 80 million of his subjects died horribly in the gulags. Mao likewise died peacefully, however 100 to 150 million of his subjects were murdered to appease his blood lust. Hitler was, like the previous two, an atheist. You atheists try and disown him, but the evidence is very clear as to what he was. He used religion as a tool, nothing more.

Assumes facts not in evidence!

Hitler was raised as a devout catholic. Stalin was educated in a seminary to become a priest. Mao was raised as a Buddhist and is quoted as saying that it is wrong to be opposed to religion.

Now why don't you erroneously accuse me "derailing this thread" because you introduced the red herring of atheism in order to slander it without any factual basis.

BTW I am taking an image of this post so that I will have the evidence if you attempt to delete it instead of addressing your falsehoods.

Yes, you clown faces have an amazingly juvenile need to run to momma when you get your asses handed to you. Some day I hope you grow up. Now, in order...As stated before, what a person is raised makes no difference to what they become. That atheist hero of yours Richard Dawkins described his childhood as "a normal Anglican upbringing". So, by your idiotic logic he can't then be an atheist. Do you see how retarded that statement of yours is?

Stalins father was a Orthodox Priest, and so Stalin followed the father into the Church, however, when he became a revolutionary he famously stated..
"You know, they are fooling us, there is no God… all this talk about God is sheer nonsense." -E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin

Under Stalin the Russian Orthodox Church suffered heavily. They were reduced from 50,000 operating churches to under 500. Then during the war he relieved some of the pressure to get the people to fight harder, but once the war was over he cracked down on the Church yet again.

Now Mao is easy, we find in The Writings of Mao Zedong, 1949-1976: January 1956-December 1957 By Zedong Mao, Michael Y.M. Kau, John K Leung (October-December 1957/page 791) that he wrote the following...

“Atheism must take the place of belief in a God.”

Although China is a socialist country, Buddhism is protected according to national policy. The late Chairman Mao Zedong said when he received delegations from Peru in 1964 that:

“it is wrong to tell people to be against religion.”

“religious people would oppose us… believing in a certain religion doesn’t mean people don’t oppose imperialism, feudalism and bureaucratic capitalism.”

The late Chairman Mao Zedong said when he received delegations from Peru in 1964 that:

“it is wrong to tell people to be against religion.”

Oh the irony coming from someone who doesn't even understand the quotes he used.

Here are the quotes in speeches where Hitler proclaimed himself as a Christian.

Hitler s Christianity

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.

-Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922

We are a people of different faiths, but we are one. Which faith conquers the other is not the question; rather, the question is whether Christianity stands or falls.... We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity... in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Passau, 27 October 1928, Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich]​

In fact Hitler even denounced Atheism and swore to eradicate it.

We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933​

Once again your pathetic canards are exposed as hogwash. I don't expect you to be man enough to admit when you are wrong though. You lack the honesty and integrity for that kind of courage.

Now go ahead and delete this post because they all being compiled in a dossier that will be used as evidence.

No, what's funny is you look at someone who is known for using propaganda on a grand scale, and you so called smart people can't recognize the fact that you are falling for his propaganda yet again. Let me know when you develop a brain there DT.

 

[Derideo_Te]

from townhall.com link...UN Climate Chief Says Communism is Best Way to Fight Global Warming - Heather Ginsberg

Only, that's not what Ms. Figueres said.

Righties really do have a problem with the truth, now don't they.....

They create their own facts.

Amazing.

I provided a factual source.

BZZZT Wrong!

You provide a biased disinformation source.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Yes, that is called propaganda. You are well versed in it. The private writings, and the recorded conversations make it very plain that Hitler was an atheist. There is NO doubt about that. The fact that he was raised Catholic doesn't matter a bit. Most atheists come from homes that were religious so your argument is pointless.

Except the only evidence for Hitler's supposed atheism is a book called "Hitler's Table Talk", which has been largely discredited.

Hitler s Table Talk

The problem with these anti-Christian quotes is that the German text of the table-talk does not include them, they were made up by François Genoud, the translator of the French version, the very version that English translations rely on! (More on this below).

Even if you believed the table-talk included the anti-Christian quotes, nowhere in the talk does Hitler speak against Jesus or his own brand of Christianity. On the contrary, the table-talk has Hitler speaking admirably about Jesus. Hitler did, of course criticize organized religion in a political sense (as do many Christians today), but never in a religious sense. But the problems with using Hitler's table talk conversations as evidence for Hitler's apostasy are manyfold:

1) The reliability of the source (hearsay and editing by the anti-Catholic, Bormann)

2) The reliability of multiple translations, from German to French to English.

3) The bias of the translators (especially Genoud).

4) The table-talk reflects thoughts that do not occur in Hitler's other private or public conversations.

5) Nowhere does Hitler denounce Jesus or his own brand of Christianity.

6) The "anti-Christian" portions of Table-Talk does not concur with Hitler's actions for "positive" Christianity.

As usual, you're statement is not born out by fact. There are MANY sources that show Hitler to be an atheist. Here are just a very few....

“Hitler naturally wanted to bring the church into line with everything else in his scheme of things. He knew he dare not simply eradicate it: that would not have been possible with such an international organisation, and he would have lost many Christian supporters had he tried to. His principal aim was to unify the German Evangelical Church under a pro-Nazi banner, and to come to an accommodation with the Catholics.” – An Honourable Defeat: A History of German Resistance to Hitler, 1933-1945, by Anton Gil

“Adolf Hitler … was a disciple of Friedrich Nietzsche. … Hitler hated Christianity with a passion which rivaled Lenin’s. Shortly after assuming power in 1933, he told Hermann Rauschnig that he intended ‘to stamp out Christianity root and branch.’ ‘One is either a Christian or a German — you cannot be both,’ he added. … He said, ‘I want a powerful, masterly, cruel and fearless youth. … The freedom and dignity of the wild beast must shine from their eyes.’” – Historian Paul Johnson

"Amid his political associates in Berlin, Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church, but in the presence of women he adopted a milder tone - one of the instances where he adapted his remarks to the surroundings."-Albert Speer, Inside the Third Reich, Phoenix, pp.148-149.

So, the Speer quote is meaningless.

Paul Johnson is an EXTREME Right-Wing author. Not surprisingly, he got the Presidential Medal of Honor from Bush in 2006. And even that quote of yours shows in no way that Hitler was an atheist or intended to destroy Christianity. Hell, Hitler couldn't even cancel KARNEVAL in Köln, the people of the city refused to let him do it. And Köln is a Catholic bastion within Germany, to this day.

You misspelled Anton Gill's name. He is mostly a FICTION writer. That being said, his book looks quite interesting, I may just read it, since it is about the resistance. I assume that the White Rose and Goerdeler are in the book. I find the Gill quote to be not bad. But it also shows in no way that Hitler was an atheist.

Why do you keep presenting material that doesn't actually back up your point?

you clown faces

How ironic coming from another "clown face".

This clown face doesn't whine to momma when things don't go his way.

No, you just abuse your power and delete posts because you can't handle the fact that you have been exposed as a liar!

 

[westwall]

"Amid his political associates in Berlin, Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church, but in the presence of women he adopted a milder tone - one of the instances where he adapted his remarks to the surroundings."-Albert Speer, Inside the Third Reich, Phoenix, pp.148-149.

I'm going to IGNORE your other two silly-ass quotes because they are from people who didn't know Hitler personally speculating on what he was thinking.

Speer was just observing that Hitler had a contempt for a cowardly Catholic Church that went along with just aobut anything as long as they could keep fucking altar boys up the ass. Not that you can blame him. No one respects cowards, and Pius XII was the biggest coward in history.

So really, you didn't provide any proof of Hitler's atheism.

Not that it's a relevent point. Hitler by himself couldn't do anything, regardless of what his personal beliefs were. Hitler was able to inflict the damage he did because German Protestants and Catholics did his bidding and proudly wore belt buckles like the one below when they were turning the Jews into lampshades.

Here's another belt buckle for you, it's a World War One Prussian Belt Buckle...

And here are busby's for cavalry and hussar units that used the Deaths Head, made famous by the SS...

And the reason for this is military's the world over have this thing called tradition. They constantly refer back to the famous units and phrases of their forebears. All you have done is demonstrate to the world that you don't know shit about history.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Marx never had political power, and Stalin and Mao died peacefully in their beds.

As for Hitler, Hitler was just the end result of a major religion who said, "The Jews Killed our God-Man".

Yes, Stalin died peacefully, but 60 to 80 million of his subjects died horribly in the gulags. Mao likewise died peacefully, however 100 to 150 million of his subjects were murdered to appease his blood lust. Hitler was, like the previous two, an atheist. You atheists try and disown him, but the evidence is very clear as to what he was. He used religion as a tool, nothing more.

Assumes facts not in evidence!

Hitler was raised as a devout catholic. Stalin was educated in a seminary to become a priest. Mao was raised as a Buddhist and is quoted as saying that it is wrong to be opposed to religion.

Now why don't you erroneously accuse me "derailing this thread" because you introduced the red herring of atheism in order to slander it without any factual basis.

BTW I am taking an image of this post so that I will have the evidence if you attempt to delete it instead of addressing your falsehoods.

Yes, you clown faces have an amazingly juvenile need to run to momma when you get your asses handed to you. Some day I hope you grow up. Now, in order...As stated before, what a person is raised makes no difference to what they become. That atheist hero of yours Richard Dawkins described his childhood as "a normal Anglican upbringing". So, by your idiotic logic he can't then be an atheist. Do you see how retarded that statement of yours is?

Stalins father was a Orthodox Priest, and so Stalin followed the father into the Church, however, when he became a revolutionary he famously stated..
"You know, they are fooling us, there is no God… all this talk about God is sheer nonsense." -E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin

Under Stalin the Russian Orthodox Church suffered heavily. They were reduced from 50,000 operating churches to under 500. Then during the war he relieved some of the pressure to get the people to fight harder, but once the war was over he cracked down on the Church yet again.

Now Mao is easy, we find in The Writings of Mao Zedong, 1949-1976: January 1956-December 1957 By Zedong Mao, Michael Y.M. Kau, John K Leung (October-December 1957/page 791) that he wrote the following...

“Atheism must take the place of belief in a God.”

Although China is a socialist country, Buddhism is protected according to national policy. The late Chairman Mao Zedong said when he received delegations from Peru in 1964 that:

“it is wrong to tell people to be against religion.”

“religious people would oppose us… believing in a certain religion doesn’t mean people don’t oppose imperialism, feudalism and bureaucratic capitalism.”

The late Chairman Mao Zedong said when he received delegations from Peru in 1964 that:

“it is wrong to tell people to be against religion.”

Oh the irony coming from someone who doesn't even understand the quotes he used.

Here are the quotes in speeches where Hitler proclaimed himself as a Christian.

Hitler s Christianity

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.

-Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922

We are a people of different faiths, but we are one. Which faith conquers the other is not the question; rather, the question is whether Christianity stands or falls.... We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity... in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Passau, 27 October 1928, Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich]​

In fact Hitler even denounced Atheism and swore to eradicate it.

We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933​

Once again your pathetic canards are exposed as hogwash. I don't expect you to be man enough to admit when you are wrong though. You lack the honesty and integrity for that kind of courage.

Now go ahead and delete this post because they all being compiled in a dossier that will be used as evidence.

No, what's funny is you look at someone who is known for using propaganda on a grand scale, and you so called smart people can't recognize the fact that you are falling for his propaganda yet again. Let me know when you develop a brain there DT.

Irony squared!

You used out of context quotes.

I provided verbatim quotes from Hitler's speeches.

Obviously you are the one lacking cognitive skills.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Yes, that is called propaganda. You are well versed in it. The private writings, and the recorded conversations make it very plain that Hitler was an atheist. There is NO doubt about that. The fact that he was raised Catholic doesn't matter a bit. Most atheists come from homes that were religious so your argument is pointless.

Except the only evidence for Hitler's supposed atheism is a book called "Hitler's Table Talk", which has been largely discredited.

Hitler s Table Talk

The problem with these anti-Christian quotes is that the German text of the table-talk does not include them, they were made up by François Genoud, the translator of the French version, the very version that English translations rely on! (More on this below).

Even if you believed the table-talk included the anti-Christian quotes, nowhere in the talk does Hitler speak against Jesus or his own brand of Christianity. On the contrary, the table-talk has Hitler speaking admirably about Jesus. Hitler did, of course criticize organized religion in a political sense (as do many Christians today), but never in a religious sense. But the problems with using Hitler's table talk conversations as evidence for Hitler's apostasy are manyfold:

1) The reliability of the source (hearsay and editing by the anti-Catholic, Bormann)

2) The reliability of multiple translations, from German to French to English.

3) The bias of the translators (especially Genoud).

4) The table-talk reflects thoughts that do not occur in Hitler's other private or public conversations.

5) Nowhere does Hitler denounce Jesus or his own brand of Christianity.

6) The "anti-Christian" portions of Table-Talk does not concur with Hitler's actions for "positive" Christianity.

As usual, you're statement is not born out by fact. There are MANY sources that show Hitler to be an atheist. Here are just a very few....

“Hitler naturally wanted to bring the church into line with everything else in his scheme of things. He knew he dare not simply eradicate it: that would not have been possible with such an international organisation, and he would have lost many Christian supporters had he tried to. His principal aim was to unify the German Evangelical Church under a pro-Nazi banner, and to come to an accommodation with the Catholics.” – An Honourable Defeat: A History of German Resistance to Hitler, 1933-1945, by Anton Gil

“Adolf Hitler … was a disciple of Friedrich Nietzsche. … Hitler hated Christianity with a passion which rivaled Lenin’s. Shortly after assuming power in 1933, he told Hermann Rauschnig that he intended ‘to stamp out Christianity root and branch.’ ‘One is either a Christian or a German — you cannot be both,’ he added. … He said, ‘I want a powerful, masterly, cruel and fearless youth. … The freedom and dignity of the wild beast must shine from their eyes.’” – Historian Paul Johnson

"Amid his political associates in Berlin, Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church, but in the presence of women he adopted a milder tone - one of the instances where he adapted his remarks to the surroundings."-Albert Speer, Inside the Third Reich, Phoenix, pp.148-149.

So, the Speer quote is meaningless.

Paul Johnson is an EXTREME Right-Wing author. Not surprisingly, he got the Presidential Medal of Honor from Bush in 2006. And even that quote of yours shows in no way that Hitler was an atheist or intended to destroy Christianity. Hell, Hitler couldn't even cancel KARNEVAL in Köln, the people of the city refused to let him do it. And Köln is a Catholic bastion within Germany, to this day.

You misspelled Anton Gill's name. He is mostly a FICTION writer. That being said, his book looks quite interesting, I may just read it, since it is about the resistance. I assume that the White Rose and Goerdeler are in the book. I find the Gill quote to be not bad. But it also shows in no way that Hitler was an atheist.

Why do you keep presenting material that doesn't actually back up your point?

you clown faces

How ironic coming from another "clown face".

This clown face doesn't whine to momma when things don't go his way.

That makes no sense and has absolutely nothing to do with the OP. Pay attention.

 

[westwall]

Yes, that is called propaganda. You are well versed in it. The private writings, and the recorded conversations make it very plain that Hitler was an atheist. There is NO doubt about that. The fact that he was raised Catholic doesn't matter a bit. Most atheists come from homes that were religious so your argument is pointless.

Except the only evidence for Hitler's supposed atheism is a book called "Hitler's Table Talk", which has been largely discredited.

Hitler s Table Talk

The problem with these anti-Christian quotes is that the German text of the table-talk does not include them, they were made up by François Genoud, the translator of the French version, the very version that English translations rely on! (More on this below).

Even if you believed the table-talk included the anti-Christian quotes, nowhere in the talk does Hitler speak against Jesus or his own brand of Christianity. On the contrary, the table-talk has Hitler speaking admirably about Jesus. Hitler did, of course criticize organized religion in a political sense (as do many Christians today), but never in a religious sense. But the problems with using Hitler's table talk conversations as evidence for Hitler's apostasy are manyfold:

1) The reliability of the source (hearsay and editing by the anti-Catholic, Bormann)

2) The reliability of multiple translations, from German to French to English.

3) The bias of the translators (especially Genoud).

4) The table-talk reflects thoughts that do not occur in Hitler's other private or public conversations.

5) Nowhere does Hitler denounce Jesus or his own brand of Christianity.

6) The "anti-Christian" portions of Table-Talk does not concur with Hitler's actions for "positive" Christianity.

As usual, you're statement is not born out by fact. There are MANY sources that show Hitler to be an atheist. Here are just a very few....

“Hitler naturally wanted to bring the church into line with everything else in his scheme of things. He knew he dare not simply eradicate it: that would not have been possible with such an international organisation, and he would have lost many Christian supporters had he tried to. His principal aim was to unify the German Evangelical Church under a pro-Nazi banner, and to come to an accommodation with the Catholics.” – An Honourable Defeat: A History of German Resistance to Hitler, 1933-1945, by Anton Gil

“Adolf Hitler … was a disciple of Friedrich Nietzsche. … Hitler hated Christianity with a passion which rivaled Lenin’s. Shortly after assuming power in 1933, he told Hermann Rauschnig that he intended ‘to stamp out Christianity root and branch.’ ‘One is either a Christian or a German — you cannot be both,’ he added. … He said, ‘I want a powerful, masterly, cruel and fearless youth. … The freedom and dignity of the wild beast must shine from their eyes.’” – Historian Paul Johnson

"Amid his political associates in Berlin, Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church, but in the presence of women he adopted a milder tone - one of the instances where he adapted his remarks to the surroundings."-Albert Speer, Inside the Third Reich, Phoenix, pp.148-149.

So, the Speer quote is meaningless.

Paul Johnson is an EXTREME Right-Wing author. Not surprisingly, he got the Presidential Medal of Honor from Bush in 2006. And even that quote of yours shows in no way that Hitler was an atheist or intended to destroy Christianity. Hell, Hitler couldn't even cancel KARNEVAL in Köln, the people of the city refused to let him do it. And Köln is a Catholic bastion within Germany, to this day.

You misspelled Anton Gill's name. He is mostly a FICTION writer. That being said, his book looks quite interesting, I may just read it, since it is about the resistance. I assume that the White Rose and Goerdeler are in the book. I find the Gill quote to be not bad. But it also shows in no way that Hitler was an atheist.

Why do you keep presenting material that doesn't actually back up your point?

you clown faces

How ironic coming from another "clown face".

This clown face doesn't whine to momma when things don't go his way.

No, you just abuse your power and delete posts because you can't handle the fact that you have been exposed as a liar!

If that were true do you still think I would be a Mod here? c-k won't put up with that sort of crap and you know it. It is amusing to see the concerted effort Stat has generated with you useful idiots to try and have me removed though. Now, to get things back on track (so I don't have to delete yet more of your off topic whines and rants) kindly address the OP from now on, which is about how communism has morphed into the new environmentalism, or as my German friends are fond of saying "green, is the new red", and how the environmental movement truly doesn't care about the environment but does care about people...more specifically the control of those people.