Three of A Kind: Environmentalism, Communism, and Failure

[Derideo_Te]

Except the only evidence for Hitler's supposed atheism is a book called "Hitler's Table Talk", which has been largely discredited.

Hitler s Table Talk

The problem with these anti-Christian quotes is that the German text of the table-talk does not include them, they were made up by François Genoud, the translator of the French version, the very version that English translations rely on! (More on this below).

Even if you believed the table-talk included the anti-Christian quotes, nowhere in the talk does Hitler speak against Jesus or his own brand of Christianity. On the contrary, the table-talk has Hitler speaking admirably about Jesus. Hitler did, of course criticize organized religion in a political sense (as do many Christians today), but never in a religious sense. But the problems with using Hitler's table talk conversations as evidence for Hitler's apostasy are manyfold:

1) The reliability of the source (hearsay and editing by the anti-Catholic, Bormann)

2) The reliability of multiple translations, from German to French to English.

3) The bias of the translators (especially Genoud).

4) The table-talk reflects thoughts that do not occur in Hitler's other private or public conversations.

5) Nowhere does Hitler denounce Jesus or his own brand of Christianity.

6) The "anti-Christian" portions of Table-Talk does not concur with Hitler's actions for "positive" Christianity.

As usual, you're statement is not born out by fact. There are MANY sources that show Hitler to be an atheist. Here are just a very few....

“Hitler naturally wanted to bring the church into line with everything else in his scheme of things. He knew he dare not simply eradicate it: that would not have been possible with such an international organisation, and he would have lost many Christian supporters had he tried to. His principal aim was to unify the German Evangelical Church under a pro-Nazi banner, and to come to an accommodation with the Catholics.” – An Honourable Defeat: A History of German Resistance to Hitler, 1933-1945, by Anton Gil

“Adolf Hitler … was a disciple of Friedrich Nietzsche. … Hitler hated Christianity with a passion which rivaled Lenin’s. Shortly after assuming power in 1933, he told Hermann Rauschnig that he intended ‘to stamp out Christianity root and branch.’ ‘One is either a Christian or a German — you cannot be both,’ he added. … He said, ‘I want a powerful, masterly, cruel and fearless youth. … The freedom and dignity of the wild beast must shine from their eyes.’” – Historian Paul Johnson

"Amid his political associates in Berlin, Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church, but in the presence of women he adopted a milder tone - one of the instances where he adapted his remarks to the surroundings."-Albert Speer, Inside the Third Reich, Phoenix, pp.148-149.

So, the Speer quote is meaningless.

Paul Johnson is an EXTREME Right-Wing author. Not surprisingly, he got the Presidential Medal of Honor from Bush in 2006. And even that quote of yours shows in no way that Hitler was an atheist or intended to destroy Christianity. Hell, Hitler couldn't even cancel KARNEVAL in Köln, the people of the city refused to let him do it. And Köln is a Catholic bastion within Germany, to this day.

You misspelled Anton Gill's name. He is mostly a FICTION writer. That being said, his book looks quite interesting, I may just read it, since it is about the resistance. I assume that the White Rose and Goerdeler are in the book. I find the Gill quote to be not bad. But it also shows in no way that Hitler was an atheist.

Why do you keep presenting material that doesn't actually back up your point?

you clown faces

How ironic coming from another "clown face".

This clown face doesn't whine to momma when things don't go his way.

No, you just abuse your power and delete posts because you can't handle the fact that you have been exposed as a liar!

If that were true do you still think I would be a Mod here? c-k won't put up with that sort of crap and you know it. It is amusing to see the concerted effort Stat has generated with you useful idiots to try and have me removed though. Now, to get things back on track (so I don't have to delete yet more of your off topic whines and rants) kindly address the OP from now on, which is about how communism has morphed into the new environmentalism, or as my German friends are fond of saying "green, is the new red", and how the environmental movement truly doesn't care about the environment but does care about people...more specifically the control of those people.

It is true and I have the evidence of you doing it. That is why I continue to make copies of all my posts to you so that I can use them if you ever try to abuse your powers with me again.

Furthermore it was YOU that derailed this thread (I have that evidence too) so kindly refrain from accusing me of your own shortcomings.

Neither you, nor the OP, have managed to establish any valid connection between communism and environmentalism. I debunked that hogwash of the OP's in post #3 and PoliticalSpice hasn't come up with anything credible since.

As far as your latest canard goes;

the environmental movement truly doesn't care about the environment but does care about people...more specifically the control of those people.

Prove it!

Where is your credible source for that fallacious claim?

Or are you going to just throw another hissyfit and pretend that I am "off topic" because I am calling out your BS. Are you going to delete this post and fallaciously accuse me of "trolling" like you did the last time?

Either make your case or admit you can't because your Libertarianism is as bogus as PoliticalSpice's inane OP.

 

[jc456]

As usual, you're statement is not born out by fact. There are MANY sources that show Hitler to be an atheist. Here are just a very few....

“Hitler naturally wanted to bring the church into line with everything else in his scheme of things. He knew he dare not simply eradicate it: that would not have been possible with such an international organisation, and he would have lost many Christian supporters had he tried to. His principal aim was to unify the German Evangelical Church under a pro-Nazi banner, and to come to an accommodation with the Catholics.” – An Honourable Defeat: A History of German Resistance to Hitler, 1933-1945, by Anton Gil

“Adolf Hitler … was a disciple of Friedrich Nietzsche. … Hitler hated Christianity with a passion which rivaled Lenin’s. Shortly after assuming power in 1933, he told Hermann Rauschnig that he intended ‘to stamp out Christianity root and branch.’ ‘One is either a Christian or a German — you cannot be both,’ he added. … He said, ‘I want a powerful, masterly, cruel and fearless youth. … The freedom and dignity of the wild beast must shine from their eyes.’” – Historian Paul Johnson

"Amid his political associates in Berlin, Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church, but in the presence of women he adopted a milder tone - one of the instances where he adapted his remarks to the surroundings."-Albert Speer, Inside the Third Reich, Phoenix, pp.148-149.

So, the Speer quote is meaningless.

Paul Johnson is an EXTREME Right-Wing author. Not surprisingly, he got the Presidential Medal of Honor from Bush in 2006. And even that quote of yours shows in no way that Hitler was an atheist or intended to destroy Christianity. Hell, Hitler couldn't even cancel KARNEVAL in Köln, the people of the city refused to let him do it. And Köln is a Catholic bastion within Germany, to this day.

You misspelled Anton Gill's name. He is mostly a FICTION writer. That being said, his book looks quite interesting, I may just read it, since it is about the resistance. I assume that the White Rose and Goerdeler are in the book. I find the Gill quote to be not bad. But it also shows in no way that Hitler was an atheist.

Why do you keep presenting material that doesn't actually back up your point?

you clown faces

How ironic coming from another "clown face".

This clown face doesn't whine to momma when things don't go his way.

No, you just abuse your power and delete posts because you can't handle the fact that you have been exposed as a liar!

If that were true do you still think I would be a Mod here? c-k won't put up with that sort of crap and you know it. It is amusing to see the concerted effort Stat has generated with you useful idiots to try and have me removed though. Now, to get things back on track (so I don't have to delete yet more of your off topic whines and rants) kindly address the OP from now on, which is about how communism has morphed into the new environmentalism, or as my German friends are fond of saying "green, is the new red", and how the environmental movement truly doesn't care about the environment but does care about people...more specifically the control of those people.

It is true and I have the evidence of you doing it. That is why I continue to make copies of all my posts to you so that I can use them if you ever try to abuse your powers with me again.

Furthermore it was YOU that derailed this thread (I have that evidence too) so kindly refrain from accusing me of your own shortcomings.

Neither you, nor the OP, have managed to establish any valid connection between communism and environmentalism. I debunked that hogwash of the OP's in post #3 and PoliticalSpice hasn't come up with anything credible since.

As far as your latest canard goes;

the environmental movement truly doesn't care about the environment but does care about people...more specifically the control of those people.

Prove it!

Where is your credible source for that fallacious claim?

Or are you going to just throw another hissyfit and pretend that I am "off topic" because I am calling out your BS. Are you going to delete this post and fallaciously accuse me of "trolling" like you did the last time?

Either make your case or admit you can't because your Libertarianism is as bogus as PoliticalSpice's inane OP.

the truth was presented to you. You choose to ignore it. Your choice, but don't come back here and say no one has proved it. I can't stand it when people cry about the evidence.

 

[jc456]

from townhall.com link...UN Climate Chief Says Communism is Best Way to Fight Global Warming - Heather Ginsberg

Only, that's not what Ms. Figueres said.

Righties really do have a problem with the truth, now don't they.....

They create their own facts.

Amazing.

I provided a factual source.

BZZZT Wrong!

You provide a biased disinformation source.

any link I provide will be disqualified by you because you have no idea the number of sources out in the world. You choose to live in a closet with a one way view of the world from bias on the other side. See it is those who debunk the lies that will always be from another bias than yours. So what you ask for is not achievable for you because you lack the ability to think.

 

[Derideo_Te]

from townhall.com link...UN Climate Chief Says Communism is Best Way to Fight Global Warming - Heather Ginsberg

Only, that's not what Ms. Figueres said.

Righties really do have a problem with the truth, now don't they.....

They create their own facts.

Amazing.

I provided a factual source.

BZZZT Wrong!

You provide a biased disinformation source.

any link I provide will be disqualified by you because you have no idea the number of sources out in the world. You choose to live in a closet with a one way view of the world from bias on the other side. See it is those who debunk the lies that will always be from another bias than yours. So what you ask for is not achievable for you because you lack the ability to think.

No, what you provided was disinformation. For a source to be credible it needs to be unbiased. You haven't presented a single unbiased source to date ergo you have nothing.

 

[jc456]

from townhall.com link...UN Climate Chief Says Communism is Best Way to Fight Global Warming - Heather Ginsberg

Only, that's not what Ms. Figueres said.

Righties really do have a problem with the truth, now don't they.....

They create their own facts.

Amazing.

I provided a factual source.

BZZZT Wrong!

You provide a biased disinformation source.

any link I provide will be disqualified by you because you have no idea the number of sources out in the world. You choose to live in a closet with a one way view of the world from bias on the other side. See it is those who debunk the lies that will always be from another bias than yours. So what you ask for is not achievable for you because you lack the ability to think.

No, what you provided was disinformation. For a source to be credible it needs to be unbiased. You haven't presented a single unbiased source to date ergo you have nothing.

dude there is no such place in the world that is unbiased.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The liberal spirit of collectivism is the same thing Hitler used to gain consensus against the Jewish people. The Ends then justified the means, any means to rid itself of these people they deemed unfit or a problem in their grand scheme of global control. And just like many collectivists before him they came to violent ends. Stalin, Marx, Mao, all of these individuals murdered millions of people before the people took them out at great cost.

Marx never had political power, and Stalin and Mao died peacefully in their beds.

As for Hitler, Hitler was just the end result of a major religion who said, "The Jews Killed our God-Man".

Yes, Stalin died peacefully, but 60 to 80 million of his subjects died horribly in the gulags. Mao likewise died peacefully, however 100 to 150 million of his subjects were murdered to appease his blood lust. Hitler was, like the previous two, an atheist. You atheists try and disown him, but the evidence is very clear as to what he was. He used religion as a tool, nothing more.

Why do you have to derail threads?

Why do you blame everything on atheists?

Its not that simple.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Yes, Stalin died peacefully, but 60 to 80 million of his subjects died horribly in the gulags.

Probably nowhere near that number... but shit happens after a civil war.

Mao likewise died peacefully, however 100 to 150 million of his subjects were murdered to appease his blood lust.

Again, these numbers were kind of amusing during the Cold War, but a Chinese or Russian would look at you funny if you tried to pass these off to them.

Hitler was, like the previous two, an atheist. You atheists try and disown him, but the evidence is very clear as to what he was. He used religion as a tool, nothing more.

Except Hitler was an Atheist who continually invoked the name of Jesus and God.

So I'm not sure what the "Clear evidence" of Hitler's Atheism was.

Hitler s Christianity

Just as the Jew could once incite the mob of Jerusalem against Christ, so today he must succeed in inciting folk who have been duped into madness to attack those who, God's truth! seek to deal with this people in utter honesty and sincerity.

-Adolf Hitler, in Munich, 28 July 1922

It will at any rate be my supreme task to see to it that in the newly awakened NSDAP, the adherents of both Confessions can live peacefully together side by side in order that they may take their stand in the common fight against the power which is the mortal foe of any true Christianity.

-Adolf Hitler, in an article headed "A New Beginning," 26 Feb. 1925

Okay, so let's play along, and pretend Hitler was a secret atheist.

The point is, he didn't do this shit by himself. He had thousands of Catholics and Protestants who waged his wars and carried out his will. And they happily did so.

Of course he did. He lived in a Europe that was predominantly Catholic or Protestant. Thus he had to adopt religion to get them to do his bidding. Back then people still paid attention to that sort of thing. He was however, still an atheist who wished to destroy Christianity as well as all religions

This passage and the evidence released by the OSS tells anyone who wishes to know Hitlers, and the Nazi's true views on religion.

"The National Reich Church of Germany categorically claims the exclusive right and the exclusive power to control all churches within the borders of the Reich: it declares these to be national churches of the German Reich.

"The National Church is determined to exterminate irrevocably...the strange and foreign Christian faiths imported into Germany in the ill-omened year 800...

"The National Church has no scribes, pastors, chaplains or priests, but National Reich orators are to speak in them.

"The National Church demands immediate cessation of the publishing and dissemination of the Bible in Germany...'"

"On the altars there must be nothing but 'Mein Kampf' (to the German nation and therefore to God the most sacred book) and to the left of the altar a sword.

"On the day of its foundation, the Christian Cross must be removed from all churches, cathedrals and chapels...and it must be superseded by the only unconquerable symbol, the swastika."
(The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, by William L. Shirer, p. 240 in some editions, p. 332 in others. Chapter headed "Triumph and Consolidation", subsection "The Persecution of the Christian Churches")


So, there you go JoeB, Hitler and all the collectivist murderers out there had one thing in common. They were all atheists.

You're welcome.

"all collectivist murderers were atheist"???

Congrats.

I'm not even gonna bother reading any more because I'm sure you've succeeded in derailing the thread.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Only, that's not what Ms. Figueres said.

Righties really do have a problem with the truth, now don't they.....

They create their own facts.

Amazing.

I provided a factual source.

BZZZT Wrong!

You provide a biased disinformation source.

any link I provide will be disqualified by you because you have no idea the number of sources out in the world. You choose to live in a closet with a one way view of the world from bias on the other side. See it is those who debunk the lies that will always be from another bias than yours. So what you ask for is not achievable for you because you lack the ability to think.

No, what you provided was disinformation. For a source to be credible it needs to be unbiased. You haven't presented a single unbiased source to date ergo you have nothing.

dude there is no such place in the world that is unbiased.

Just because you are drowning in disinformation doesn't mean that the rest of us are as blind and ignorant as you are.

The challenge you face is a relatively simple one. Find a credible environmental source that explains both the case for AGW and the case for alternative theories in a rational scientific manner AND claims that communism is the "solution" irrespective of the cause and you have achieved your goal.

However we already know that credible environmentalists are well aware of how bad communism is when it comes to pollution so they won't espouse your disinformation.

Basically you have NOTHING credible.

Man up and admit as much and that the OP is total BS because it is based upon an extreme rightwing bogus agenda.

 

[jc456]

I provided a factual source.

BZZZT Wrong!

You provide a biased disinformation source.

any link I provide will be disqualified by you because you have no idea the number of sources out in the world. You choose to live in a closet with a one way view of the world from bias on the other side. See it is those who debunk the lies that will always be from another bias than yours. So what you ask for is not achievable for you because you lack the ability to think.

No, what you provided was disinformation. For a source to be credible it needs to be unbiased. You haven't presented a single unbiased source to date ergo you have nothing.

dude there is no such place in the world that is unbiased.

Just because you are drowning in disinformation doesn't mean that the rest of us are as blind and ignorant as you are.

The challenge you face is a relatively simple one. Find a credible environmental source that explains both the case for AGW and the case for alternative theories in a rational scientific manner AND claims that communism is the "solution" irrespective of the cause and you have achieved your goal.

However we already know that credible environmentalists are well aware of how bad communism is when it comes to pollution so they won't espouse your disinformation.

Basically you have NOTHING credible.

Man up and admit as much and that the OP is total BS because it is based upon an extreme rightwing bogus agenda.

I have, I don't need your approval. it isn't the site it's the source, and the source is a former UN IPCC rep. has nothing to do with the site.

 

[Derideo_Te]

BZZZT Wrong!

You provide a biased disinformation source.

any link I provide will be disqualified by you because you have no idea the number of sources out in the world. You choose to live in a closet with a one way view of the world from bias on the other side. See it is those who debunk the lies that will always be from another bias than yours. So what you ask for is not achievable for you because you lack the ability to think.

No, what you provided was disinformation. For a source to be credible it needs to be unbiased. You haven't presented a single unbiased source to date ergo you have nothing.

dude there is no such place in the world that is unbiased.

Just because you are drowning in disinformation doesn't mean that the rest of us are as blind and ignorant as you are.

The challenge you face is a relatively simple one. Find a credible environmental source that explains both the case for AGW and the case for alternative theories in a rational scientific manner AND claims that communism is the "solution" irrespective of the cause and you have achieved your goal.

However we already know that credible environmentalists are well aware of how bad communism is when it comes to pollution so they won't espouse your disinformation.

Basically you have NOTHING credible.

Man up and admit as much and that the OP is total BS because it is based upon an extreme rightwing bogus agenda.

I have, I don't need your approval.

Only in your wet dreams!

The OP failed to make the connection and so did you.

Deal with it.

 

[jc456]

dude there is no such place in the world that is unbiased.

Just because you are drowning in disinformation doesn't mean that the rest of us are as blind and ignorant as you are.

The challenge you face is a relatively simple one. Find a credible environmental source that explains both the case for AGW and the case for alternative theories in a rational scientific manner AND claims that communism is the "solution" irrespective of the cause and you have achieved your goal.

However we already know that credible environmentalists are well aware of how bad communism is when it comes to pollution so they won't espouse your disinformation.

Basically you have NOTHING credible.

Man up and admit as much and that the OP is total BS because it is based upon an extreme rightwing bogus agenda.

I have, I don't need your approval.

Only in your wet dreams!

The OP failed to make the connection and so did you.

Deal with it.

deal with what?

Nano attention span disorder?

Your failure, that is what!

Sheesh!

failure of what? It seems you are the only one losing.

 

[sealybobo]

I honestly hope that they unlock the doors some day and let Political Spice out into the real world.

Hey, only failure i've seen lately is how your boy Bush gave you guys everything on your wish list and created the worst economic disaster in 80 years.

Remember when their capitalism failed and they came crying to the government that they were too big to fail?

Then they blame Obama when it was capitalism bankers wallstreet and mortgage giants that fucked us. Manufacturing corporations moved overseas.

Don't forget healthcare and oil companies fucked us too.

And they got rich. So anyone complaining on usmb is clearly not rich enough to be voting GOP otherwise they be doing great.

But try explaining this to them.

 

[sealybobo]

....american companies hired illegals too. Don't forget that.

 

[sealybobo]

dude there is no such place in the world that is unbiased.

Just because you are drowning in disinformation doesn't mean that the rest of us are as blind and ignorant as you are.

The challenge you face is a relatively simple one. Find a credible environmental source that explains both the case for AGW and the case for alternative theories in a rational scientific manner AND claims that communism is the "solution" irrespective of the cause and you have achieved your goal.

However we already know that credible environmentalists are well aware of how bad communism is when it comes to pollution so they won't espouse your disinformation.

Basically you have NOTHING credible.

Man up and admit as much and that the OP is total BS because it is based upon an extreme rightwing bogus agenda.

I have, I don't need your approval.

Only in your wet dreams!

The OP failed to make the connection and so did you.

Deal with it.

deal with what?

Nano attention span disorder?

Your failure, that is what!

Sheesh!

What ism is it when the corporations convince the goverment to unregulated our economy and it fails and the bankers come running to our government to save them. And basically for saving them they said fuck you and they got richer than ever and made us poor? And if we complain they cry socialism and class warfare.

And half of middle class is clueless they fucked us.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Just because you are drowning in disinformation doesn't mean that the rest of us are as blind and ignorant as you are.

The challenge you face is a relatively simple one. Find a credible environmental source that explains both the case for AGW and the case for alternative theories in a rational scientific manner AND claims that communism is the "solution" irrespective of the cause and you have achieved your goal.

However we already know that credible environmentalists are well aware of how bad communism is when it comes to pollution so they won't espouse your disinformation.

Basically you have NOTHING credible.

Man up and admit as much and that the OP is total BS because it is based upon an extreme rightwing bogus agenda.

I have, I don't need your approval.

Only in your wet dreams!

The OP failed to make the connection and so did you.

Deal with it.

deal with what?

Nano attention span disorder?

Your failure, that is what!

Sheesh!

What ism is it when the corporations convince the goverment to unregulated our economy and it fails and the bankers come running to our government to save them. And basically for saving them they said fuck you and they got richer than ever and made us poor? And if we complain they cry socialism and class warfare.

And half of middle class is clueless they fucked us.

Libertarianism!

 

[sealybobo]

I have, I don't need your approval.

Only in your wet dreams!

The OP failed to make the connection and so did you.

Deal with it.

deal with what?

Nano attention span disorder?

Your failure, that is what!

Sheesh!

What ism is it when the corporations convince the goverment to unregulated our economy and it fails and the bankers come running to our government to save them. And basically for saving them they said fuck you and they got richer than ever and made us poor? And if we complain they cry socialism and class warfare.

And half of middle class is clueless they fucked us.

Libertarianism!

I was going to say that! Libertarians say the only thing bush did wrong was not deregulate more.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Only in your wet dreams!

The OP failed to make the connection and so did you.

Deal with it.

deal with what?

Nano attention span disorder?

Your failure, that is what!

Sheesh!

What ism is it when the corporations convince the goverment to unregulated our economy and it fails and the bankers come running to our government to save them. And basically for saving them they said fuck you and they got richer than ever and made us poor? And if we complain they cry socialism and class warfare.

And half of middle class is clueless they fucked us.

Libertarianism!

I was going to say that! Libertarians say the only thing bush did wrong was not deregulate more.

If you go back to the 1980's and look at the Libertarian platform that the Koch bros were running on it has now been adopted virtually word for word by their feckless GOP minions.

 

[westwall]

The liberal spirit of collectivism is the same thing Hitler used to gain consensus against the Jewish people. The Ends then justified the means, any means to rid itself of these people they deemed unfit or a problem in their grand scheme of global control. And just like many collectivists before him they came to violent ends. Stalin, Marx, Mao, all of these individuals murdered millions of people before the people took them out at great cost.

Marx never had political power, and Stalin and Mao died peacefully in their beds.

As for Hitler, Hitler was just the end result of a major religion who said, "The Jews Killed our God-Man".

Yes, Stalin died peacefully, but 60 to 80 million of his subjects died horribly in the gulags. Mao likewise died peacefully, however 100 to 150 million of his subjects were murdered to appease his blood lust. Hitler was, like the previous two, an atheist. You atheists try and disown him, but the evidence is very clear as to what he was. He used religion as a tool, nothing more.

Why do you have to derail threads?

Why do you blame everything on atheists?

Its not that simple.

I never said it was. However the post I made is relevant to the OP. The collectivist governments that have killed the most people (which is part of the OP) were run by atheists. Further the OFFICIAL position of the socialist regime of the Soviet Union was there is no religion allowed. Stat and the rest of the progs don't like the nexus, but the nexus exists. As of now DT is trying the hardest to derail the thread, aided and abetted by the rest of you clown faces.

 

[Old Rocks]

Yep. And in the religious wars in Europe significant percentages of the populations were killing each other in the name of Christ. Like you, Walleyes, it was not that they cared about religion, they just didn't like their fellow man. People that cannot accept reality are like that. Whether their religion is atheism or following some imagined Diety.

 

[westwall]

Yep. And in the religious wars in Europe significant percentages of the populations were killing each other in the name of Christ. Like you, Walleyes, it was not that they cared about religion, they just didn't like their fellow man. People that cannot accept reality are like that. Whether their religion is atheism or following some imagined Diety.

There's a lot of truth to that statement olfraud. I have often said that people are people. Some use religion to give legitimacy to their actions. Some use government. And some simply don't care. But it is a fact, and the OP lays it out very clearly, that the modern environmental movement uses the same methods to further its goals as did the "communistic" regimes of the Cold War ear. Of that there is no doubt.