Time to ban Air Soft/BB guns...at least realistic looking ones

[HereWeGoAgain]

Excellent point here OP.

But the larger question is -- why does a kid want to run around with a gun in the first place, toy or not? What's his motivation? Who sold him these values?

Who indeed -- gun fetishists here keep telling me "we don't have a gun culture".
Watch this --

​

Stupefying, innit? Did they actually think there would be no consequences? How do you like the reactions of the cops here?

Spiritual values, as taught by our world. That's severely fucked up. And then we act surprised when it's acted out.

Why is it that we didnt have all these shootings back in those days?
Hell,video games are way worse than any war games we played as kids,maybe you should go after them?

Obviously because those are little kids --- the target audience as well as the actors. They needed time to grow up. How'd that all work out, ten, twenty, thirty years later?

That's when you indoctrinate values -- in childhood. The question is, why are we indoctrinating these values? Who came up with the idea that it's 'cool' to shoot and kill things? And what the hell were/are we doing when that value is sold to children?

We get the idea of toys, right? They're not just time-killers, they're educational tools. We gave girls dolls and toy stoves, we gave boys guns. That's telling the kid "here's what your role is when you grow up".

Kids have played Cowboys and Indians,cops and robbers and army for generations.
If you find them scary as a male you're missing some chromosomes.

 

[Nutz]

I saw that post. Sorry the poster is too poor to afford to send their child to a facility that is set up for that kind of activity. My sons also enjoy shooting their buddies with Airsoft guns. They have several that look entirely real. They frequent a local business that is set up just for that sort of activity. If one doesn't want to see teenage boys running around with realistic guns, they best not go to this business.

But if I catch my kids "running around town shooting their buddies with Airsoft" the police will be the least of their worries, and in fact would probably end up being their protectors, from me.

Well said. Let kids shoot them inside their own home or fenced in back yard.

But these parents let their kids run wild throughout the community with realistic looking bb guns...amongst citizens who cant tell the difference. ..in a time in history where mental illness has led many teens to murder others......and these parents blame cops. Wow.

What did you play with as a kid?? Rocks? Oh yeah, those are dangerous also..

This is more of that good old fashion police tyrants wanting to save ourselves from ourselves, fuck the pigs...

I had a bb gun. Mom made me stay in our fenced back yard. Never woulda run around town with it flashing it at people.

When your teen kid runs around town trying to look like he has a real gun...dont be shocked when he convinces people.

We ran all over the neighborhood, the school yards playing guns and no cops ever shot us...this was the 1960's though and cops did not have that shoot first find answers latter attitude. I understand that some areas are dangerous for cops, but all of the USA should not have restrictions on freedoms by those that use their perception of a future proactive mentality....

Times have changed my friend. Time to accept that. When I was a teenager , it was no big deal to have your hunting rifle in your truck when you came to school either. That's not the case anymore obviously.

Yep!

 

[Pogo]

Excellent point here OP.

But the larger question is -- why does a kid want to run around with a gun in the first place, toy or not? What's his motivation? Who sold him these values?

Who indeed -- gun fetishists here keep telling me "we don't have a gun culture".
Watch this --

​

Stupefying, innit? Did they actually think there would be no consequences? How do you like the reactions of the cops here?

Spiritual values, as taught by our world. That's severely fucked up. And then we act surprised when it's acted out.

Why is it that we didnt have all these shootings back in those days?
Hell,video games are way worse than any war games we played as kids,maybe you should go after them?

Obviously because those are little kids. They needed time to grow up. How'd that all work out, ten, twenty, thirty years later?

That's when you indoctrinate values -- in childhood. The question is, why are we indoctrinating these values? Who came up with the idea that it's 'cool' to shoot and kill things? And what the hell were/are we doing when that value is sold to children?

We get the idea of toys, right? They're not just time-killers, they're educational tools. We gave girls dolls and toy stoves, we gave boys guns. That's telling the kid "here's what your role is when you grow up".

I dont agree often with you but you make a great point. We socialize our youth in a culture full of guns. And in 20 years...police departments will be hiring kids from this pool. Behavior is learned.

Indeedy. That's why I'm always railing about this angle and not about "gun control", which I think is just pissing into the wind. We don't have gun violence because guns are readily available -- we have gun violence because we've done everything we can to ingrain it as a social value.

 

[bucs90]

If a grown man can sling a rifle that will shoot live ammo, and walk freely around town and in a cop station without interference from cops, then kids can also...

True. But point either one at a cop...you probably get shot.

You train people with weapons not to....

Train what? You train people NOT to shoot when a gun is raised at them? Never heard of that tactic. You play the staring contest with a gun barrel. See who wins.

Read it again.....I stated that you train people not to point guns at people.. It's a basic rule of weapon usage...

Im sure the parents of the kid in Cleveland taught him weapon safety with that replica pistol he pointed at cops.

 

[Pogo]

Excellent point here OP.

But the larger question is -- why does a kid want to run around with a gun in the first place, toy or not? What's his motivation? Who sold him these values?

Who indeed -- gun fetishists here keep telling me "we don't have a gun culture".
Watch this --

​

Stupefying, innit? Did they actually think there would be no consequences? How do you like the reactions of the cops here?

Spiritual values, as taught by our world. That's severely fucked up. And then we act surprised when it's acted out.

Why is it that we didnt have all these shootings back in those days?
Hell,video games are way worse than any war games we played as kids,maybe you should go after them?

Obviously because those are little kids --- the target audience as well as the actors. They needed time to grow up. How'd that all work out, ten, twenty, thirty years later?

That's when you indoctrinate values -- in childhood. The question is, why are we indoctrinating these values? Who came up with the idea that it's 'cool' to shoot and kill things? And what the hell were/are we doing when that value is sold to children?

We get the idea of toys, right? They're not just time-killers, they're educational tools. We gave girls dolls and toy stoves, we gave boys guns. That's telling the kid "here's what your role is when you grow up".

Kids have played Cowboys and Indians,cops and robbers and army for generations.
If you find them scary as a male you're missing some chromosomes.

I didn't say it was "scary" -- I said it's "Fucked up". As a value.
But feel free to make the case that it's "healthy". Marx might hire you.

 

[bucs90]

[QUOTEucs90, post: 10684488, member: 22689"]

Excellent point here OP.

But the larger question is -- why does a kid want to run around with a gun in the first place, toy or not? What's his motivation? Who sold him these values?

Who indeed -- gun fetishists here keep telling me "we don't have a gun culture".
Watch this --

​

Stupefying, innit? Did they actually think there would be no consequences? How do you like the reactions of the cops here?

Spiritual values, as taught by our world. That's severely fucked up. And then we act surprised when it's acted out.

Why is it that we didnt have all these shootings back in those days?
Hell,video games are way worse than any war games we played as kids,maybe you should go after them?

Obviously because those are little kids. They needed time to grow up. How'd that all work out, ten, twenty, thirty years later?

That's when you indoctrinate values -- in childhood. The question is, why are we indoctrinating these values? Who came up with the idea that it's 'cool' to shoot and kill things? And what the hell were/are we doing when that value is sold to children?

We get the idea of toys, right? They're not just time-killers, they're educational tools. We gave girls dolls and toy stoves, we gave boys guns. That's telling the kid "here's what your role is when you grow up".

I dont agree often with you but you make a great point. We socialize our youth in a culture full of guns. And in 20 years...police departments will be hiring kids from this pool. Behavior is learned.

Indeedy. That's why I'm always railing about this angle and not about "gun control", which I think is just pissing into the wind. We don't have gun violence because guns are readily available -- we have gun violence because we've done everything we can to ingrain it as a social value.[/QUOTE]
I agree. Im pro gun. But stronly advocate strict responsibility and safety. Guns arent evil but are dangerous tools created for one thing- killing. Killing Nazis or store clerks or ISIS or school kids..doesnt matter to a gun. It kills.

The user is the variable that makes it good or evil.

 

[Ravi]

If a grown man can sling a rifle that will shoot live ammo, and walk freely around town and in a cop station without interference from cops, then kids can also...

True. But point either one at a cop...you probably get shot.

You train people with weapons not to....

Train what? You train people NOT to shoot when a gun is raised at them? Never heard of that tactic. You play the staring contest with a gun barrel. See who wins.

Read it again.....I stated that you train people not to point guns at people.. It's a basic rule of weapon usage...

Im sure the parents of the kid in Cleveland taught him weapon safety with that replica pistol he pointed at cops.

He didn't point it at any cops. This is what I was saying on the other thread,. you will bend over backwards to defend the bad behavior of cops.

 

[Moonglow]

If a grown man can sling a rifle that will shoot live ammo, and walk freely around town and in a cop station without interference from cops, then kids can also...

True. But point either one at a cop...you probably get shot.

You train people with weapons not to....

Train what? You train people NOT to shoot when a gun is raised at them? Never heard of that tactic. You play the staring contest with a gun barrel. See who wins.

Read it again.....I stated that you train people not to point guns at people.. It's a basic rule of weapon usage...

Im sure the parents of the kid in Cleveland taught him weapon safety with that replica pistol he pointed at cops.

Stupid is as stupid does,,,But peer pressure to punish all for a few bad ones suck....

 

[bucs90]

True. But point either one at a cop...you probably get shot.

You train people with weapons not to....

Train what? You train people NOT to shoot when a gun is raised at them? Never heard of that tactic. You play the staring contest with a gun barrel. See who wins.

Read it again.....I stated that you train people not to point guns at people.. It's a basic rule of weapon usage...

Im sure the parents of the kid in Cleveland taught him weapon safety with that replica pistol he pointed at cops.

He didn't point it at any cops. This is what I was saying on the other thread,. you will bend over backwards to defend the bad behavior of cops.

Um...he reached for it...to what? Massage the gun?

 

[bucs90]

True. But point either one at a cop...you probably get shot.

You train people with weapons not to....

Train what? You train people NOT to shoot when a gun is raised at them? Never heard of that tactic. You play the staring contest with a gun barrel. See who wins.

Read it again.....I stated that you train people not to point guns at people.. It's a basic rule of weapon usage...

Im sure the parents of the kid in Cleveland taught him weapon safety with that replica pistol he pointed at cops.

Stupid is as stupid does,,,But peer pressure to punish all for a few bad ones suck....

OOOOOH....so we shouldnt punish all for the actions of a few? Remember that for the next "bad cop" outrage story.

 

[bucs90]

Excellent point here OP.

But the larger question is -- why does a kid want to run around with a gun in the first place, toy or not? What's his motivation? Who sold him these values?

Who indeed -- gun fetishists here keep telling me "we don't have a gun culture".
Watch this --

​

Stupefying, innit? Did they actually think there would be no consequences? How do you like the reactions of the cops here?

Spiritual values, as taught by our world. That's severely fucked up. And then we act surprised when it's acted out.

Why is it that we didnt have all these shootings back in those days?
Hell,video games are way worse than any war games we played as kids,maybe you should go after them?

Obviously because those are little kids --- the target audience as well as the actors. They needed time to grow up. How'd that all work out, ten, twenty, thirty years later?

That's when you indoctrinate values -- in childhood. The question is, why are we indoctrinating these values? Who came up with the idea that it's 'cool' to shoot and kill things? And what the hell were/are we doing when that value is sold to children?

We get the idea of toys, right? They're not just time-killers, they're educational tools. We gave girls dolls and toy stoves, we gave boys guns. That's telling the kid "here's what your role is when you grow up".

Kids have played Cowboys and Indians,cops and robbers and army for generations.
If you find them scary as a male you're missing some chromosomes.

Oh

That isnt scary at all.

A stranger roaming my community with what appears to be an AK...with all the mental illness out there these days...does scare me. These days...hard to tell the difference.

 

[Pogo]

[QUOTEucs90, post: 10684488, member: 22689"]

Excellent point here OP.

But the larger question is -- why does a kid want to run around with a gun in the first place, toy or not? What's his motivation? Who sold him these values?

Who indeed -- gun fetishists here keep telling me "we don't have a gun culture".
Watch this --

​

Stupefying, innit? Did they actually think there would be no consequences? How do you like the reactions of the cops here?

Spiritual values, as taught by our world. That's severely fucked up. And then we act surprised when it's acted out.

Why is it that we didnt have all these shootings back in those days?
Hell,video games are way worse than any war games we played as kids,maybe you should go after them?

Obviously because those are little kids. They needed time to grow up. How'd that all work out, ten, twenty, thirty years later?

That's when you indoctrinate values -- in childhood. The question is, why are we indoctrinating these values? Who came up with the idea that it's 'cool' to shoot and kill things? And what the hell were/are we doing when that value is sold to children?

We get the idea of toys, right? They're not just time-killers, they're educational tools. We gave girls dolls and toy stoves, we gave boys guns. That's telling the kid "here's what your role is when you grow up".

I dont agree often with you but you make a great point. We socialize our youth in a culture full of guns. And in 20 years...police departments will be hiring kids from this pool. Behavior is learned.

Indeedy. That's why I'm always railing about this angle and not about "gun control", which I think is just pissing into the wind. We don't have gun violence because guns are readily available -- we have gun violence because we've done everything we can to ingrain it as a social value.

I agree. Im pro gun. But stronly advocate strict responsibility and safety. Guns arent evil but are dangerous tools created for one thing- killing. Killing Nazis or store clerks or ISIS or school kids..doesnt matter to a gun. It kills.

The user is the variable that makes it good or evil.[/QUOTE]


It's kind of a matter of degree. We all know there exist extraordinary circumstances where it might be necessary to shoot and kill -- war invasion or dangerous maniac -- but these ingrained social values are teaching that not only is it not extraordinary and disgustingly necessary at all, on the contrary it's desirable, you can do it every day, and you need this toy to participate. The toy of course is the learner's permit.

When we hash over the latest mass slaying and some wag trots out the old "they could have used a baseball bat" routine I still make the point that 'murder' is not what mass shooters are going for --- they're going for carnage, the visions they've been sold all their lives by toys and movies and video games. Their objective is not to "kill persons X, Y and Z", it's the sensual input of blood spurting and helpless screaming and running for cover. That's the feedback they seek, and it comes from instilling these ideas that that sort of thing is "cool" and, more to the point, has no consequences. Because it's not Life you're dealing with, it's just your own sensory input.

That is after all what these toys teach -- sensory input. They never ever mention consequences of Life and Death.

 

[bucs90]

Good points. Our culture certainly glorifies it.

 

[Pogo]

Good points. Our culture certainly glorifies it.

And equally important, desensitizes people to it. Never in any toy commercial, movie, video game, comic book or anywhere else are the consequences of Death even touched upon. The victim's just some obstacle you knocked out of your way, and that's it. Good boy, you knocked that one out, go get another one, because it's all about your score.

Not hard to see where that dehumanization leads.

 

[bucs90]

Good points. Our culture certainly glorifies it.

And equally important, desensitizes people to it. Never in any toy commercial, movie, video game, comic book or anywhere else are the consequences of Death even touched upon. The victim's just some obstacle you knocked out of your way, and that's it. Good boy, you knocked that one out, go get another one, because it's all about your score.

Not hard to see where that dehumanization leads.

True. It also puts people in a "shooting" situation without real stress. Its why people think cops should be as calm under real stress...as they are on their couch or while playing air soft. They havent attached risk of death or actual nervous system adrenaline dump to these scenarios.

They see real life as a game.

 

[bucs90]

Its why in todays society...I say ban replica guns. We cant and shouldnt ban real ones.

But ANY item that looks like a real gun must be seen as a real.gun.

 

[Pogo]

Good points. Our culture certainly glorifies it.

And equally important, desensitizes people to it. Never in any toy commercial, movie, video game, comic book or anywhere else are the consequences of Death even touched upon. The victim's just some obstacle you knocked out of your way, and that's it. Good boy, you knocked that one out, go get another one, because it's all about your score.

Not hard to see where that dehumanization leads.

True. It also puts people in a "shooting" situation without real stress. Its why people think cops should be as calm under real stress...as they are on their couch or while playing air soft. They havent attached risk of death or actual nervous system adrenaline dump to these scenarios.

They see real life as a game.

Yes, excellent point as well.

 

[bucs90]

Good points. Our culture certainly glorifies it.

And equally important, desensitizes people to it. Never in any toy commercial, movie, video game, comic book or anywhere else are the consequences of Death even touched upon. The victim's just some obstacle you knocked out of your way, and that's it. Good boy, you knocked that one out, go get another one, because it's all about your score.

Not hard to see where that dehumanization leads.

True. It also puts people in a "shooting" situation without real stress. Its why people think cops should be as calm under real stress...as they are on their couch or while playing air soft. They havent attached risk of death or actual nervous system adrenaline dump to these scenarios.

They see real life as a game.

Yes, excellent point as well.

Thanks. Ok lets get back to disagreeing....punk haha

 

[Iceweasel]

Excellent point here OP.

But the larger question is -- why does a kid want to run around with a gun in the first place, toy or not? What's his motivation? Who sold him these values?

Who indeed -- gun fetishists here keep telling me "we don't have a gun culture".
Watch this --

​

Stupefying, innit? Did they actually think there would be no consequences? How do you like the reactions of the cops here?

Spiritual values, as taught by our world. That's severely fucked up. And then we act surprised when it's acted out.

Why is it that we didnt have all these shootings back in those days?
Hell,video games are way worse than any war games we played as kids,maybe you should go after them?

Obviously because those are little kids --- the target audience as well as the actors. They needed time to grow up. How'd that all work out, ten, twenty, thirty years later?

That's when you indoctrinate values -- in childhood. The question is, why are we indoctrinating these values? Who came up with the idea that it's 'cool' to shoot and kill things? And what the hell were/are we doing when that value is sold to children?

We get the idea of toys, right? They're not just time-killers, they're educational tools. We gave girls dolls and toy stoves, we gave boys guns. That's telling the kid "here's what your role is when you grow up".

Kids have played Cowboys and Indians,cops and robbers and army for generations.
If you find them scary as a male you're missing some chromosomes.

I didn't say it was "scary" -- I said it's "Fucked up". As a value.
But feel free to make the case that it's "healthy". Marx might hire you.

It's normal. Whether one considers it healthy or not is up to them. I grew up in the late 50s and 60s and we played war with one another. WW2 wasn't that distant a memory and turning little boys into girls wasn't part of what schools did back then.

I never heard of the kind of shootings we have now though so the culture has changed. Has it moved left or right? And who glorifies guns more than Hollywood? The old school TV and movies and positive morals but now, not so much. We didn't have realistic shootemup video games either and guns were much easier to get. So blaming guns is just stupid.

 

[bucs90]

Not blaming real guns.

Blaming fake ones. Guns arent toys. A wooden gun or the old plastic cowboy guns...obvious fakes. Todays bb and air soft guns are nearly identical to real ones. And with all the mental illness and crazy shootings out there...you cant assume whats a gun and whats a fake gun that looks like a real one. That'll get one killed.

Ban replica guns. So when we see a gun...we see a gun. No debate.