Toledo teen arrested for bringing loaded gun to school

[M14 Shooter]

I haven't argued anything -- I asked a question to everyone in the OP, and I asked you -2- questions in the post you responded to.
Questions that have received no sound response.

Because they're nonsensical questions.

How, exactly, is that the case?

Because they're based on the idea that the purpose of a law is negated by an example of it being violated.

If the purpose if the law is to prevent (x), and can be demonstrated to NOT prevent (x), how can it be argued that the law is effective at its purpose? that the law is necessary to prevent (x)?

I live in a neighborhood where cars are broken into frequently. Does that imply that the criminal laws against breaking and entering are useless?

Are those law in place to prevent people from doing so?

Every law on the books exists to deter people from violating it.

So, the laws you brought up - jaywalking, murder, murder of a police officer - are indeed NOT in place to prevent these crimes.
Thank you.

 

[Ravi]

Who argues that the laws are there to prevent police from getting murdered?
No one.

So laws against murder aren't there to prevent people from being murdered?

Sorry - you'll have to address your own straw man.

It's not a "straw man".

Who argues that the laws are there to prevent police from getting murdered?
No one.
Thus, straw man.

You keep using the word "prevent" - that's the strawman here.

No law can prevent a crime from occuring - not gun laws, or any other laws. That not how laws work.

Exactly. And if there was no law preventing this kid from going to school with a loaded gun, he couldn't be arrested for doing it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Who argues that the laws are there to prevent police from getting murdered?
No one.

So laws against murder aren't there to prevent people from being murdered?

Sorry - you'll have to address your own straw man.

It's not a "straw man".

Who argues that the laws are there to prevent police from getting murdered?
No one.
Thus, straw man.

You keep using the word "prevent" - that's the strawman here.

Of course I do --- that why we have gun control laws: to prevent criminals (et al) from getting guns, and prevent people, criminals or otherwise, from committing crimes with them.

 

[HappyJoy]

So, the question to the "anti-gun loons" is what law would have prevented this kid from bringing a gun to school?

My question would be to ask about the law that took the gun away from the kid before he or someone else made a bad situation worse. I don't see this as a failure in the law at all.

 

[M14 Shooter]

So laws against murder aren't there to prevent people from being murdered?

Sorry - you'll have to address your own straw man.

It's not a "straw man".

Who argues that the laws are there to prevent police from getting murdered?
No one.
Thus, straw man.

You keep using the word "prevent" - that's the strawman here.
No law can prevent a crime from occuring - not gun laws, or any other laws. That not how laws work.

Exactly. And if there was no law preventing this kid from going to school with a loaded gun, he couldn't be arrested for doing it.

Heh.
You have no idea how your own statement defeats your argument.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Because they're nonsensical questions.

How, exactly, is that the case?

Because they're based on the idea that the purpose of a law is negated by an example of it being violated.

If the purpose if the law is to prevent (x), and can be demonstrated to NOT prevent (x), how can it be argued that the law is effective at its purpose? that the law is necessary to prevent (x)?

I live in a neighborhood where cars are broken into frequently. Does that imply that the criminal laws against breaking and entering are useless?

Are those law in place to prevent people from doing so?

Every law on the books exists to deter people from violating it.

So, the laws you brought up - jaywalking, murder, murder of a police officer - are indeed NOT in place to prevent these crimes.
Thank you.

Gun laws aren't in place to "prevent" all gun crimes, either. They exist to deter gun crimes.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

So laws against murder aren't there to prevent people from being murdered?

Sorry - you'll have to address your own straw man.

It's not a "straw man".

Who argues that the laws are there to prevent police from getting murdered?
No one.
Thus, straw man.

You keep using the word "prevent" - that's the strawman here.

Of course I do --- that why we have gun control laws: to prevent criminals (et al) from getting guns, and prevent people, criminals or otherwise, from committing crimes with them.

No.

Gun laws cannot prevent criminals from getting guns anymore than murder laws can prevent murder.

Gun laws make it harder for criminals to get guns, and add penalties for violations to deter them - but it's ludicrous to try to hold gun control laws to a higher standard than any other criminal laws.

 

[Ravi]

Sorry - you'll have to address your own straw man.

It's not a "straw man".

Who argues that the laws are there to prevent police from getting murdered?
No one.
Thus, straw man.

You keep using the word "prevent" - that's the strawman here.
No law can prevent a crime from occuring - not gun laws, or any other laws. That not how laws work.

Exactly. And if there was no law preventing this kid from going to school with a loaded gun, he couldn't be arrested for doing it.

Heh.
You have no idea how your own statement defeats your argument.

What are you talking about?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Sorry - you'll have to address your own straw man.

It's not a "straw man".

Who argues that the laws are there to prevent police from getting murdered?
No one.
Thus, straw man.

You keep using the word "prevent" - that's the strawman here.
No law can prevent a crime from occuring - not gun laws, or any other laws. That not how laws work.

Exactly. And if there was no law preventing this kid from going to school with a loaded gun, he couldn't be arrested for doing it.

Heh.
You have no idea how your own statement defeats your argument.

You're confusing her argument with your strawman.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Gun laws aren't in place to "prevent" all gun crimes, either. They exist to deter gun crimes.

Really?
Sounds like you need to enlighten a good number of people who seek to "prevent".
States United to Prevent Gun Violence | Empowering State Advocates to Save Lives
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence
We know how to prevent gun violence, so why don’t we?
https://www.barackobama.com/gun-violence-prevention/
(the list goes on....)
And then.. why do we have background checks for gun purchases, if not to prevent criminals from getting guns...?

 

[M14 Shooter]

It's not a "straw man".

Who argues that the laws are there to prevent police from getting murdered?
No one.
Thus, straw man.

You keep using the word "prevent" - that's the strawman here.
No law can prevent a crime from occuring - not gun laws, or any other laws. That not how laws work.

Exactly. And if there was no law preventing this kid from going to school with a loaded gun, he couldn't be arrested for doing it.

Heh.
You have no idea how your own statement defeats your argument.

What are you talking about?

The laws preventing the kids from doing what he did did not prevent him from doing anything.
They allowed the state to arrest him, but they clearly did not prevent him from going it.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Because they're based on the idea that the purpose of a law is negated by an example of it being violated.

If the purpose if the law is to prevent (x), and can be demonstrated to NOT prevent (x), how can it be argued that the law is effective at its purpose? that the law is necessary to prevent (x)?

I live in a neighborhood where cars are broken into frequently. Does that imply that the criminal laws against breaking and entering are useless?

Are those law in place to prevent people from doing so?

Every law on the books exists to deter people from violating it.

So, the laws you brought up - jaywalking, murder, murder of a police officer - are indeed NOT in place to prevent these crimes.
Thank you.

Gun laws aren't in place to "prevent" all gun crimes, either. They exist to deter gun crimes.

Really?
Sounds like you need to enlighten a good number of people who seek to "prevent".
States United to Prevent Gun Violence | Empowering State Advocates to Save Lives
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence
We know how to prevent gun violence, so why don’t we?
https://www.barackobama.com/gun-violence-prevention/
(the list goes on....)

You are confusing rhetoric for reality.

 

[Ravi]

Who argues that the laws are there to prevent police from getting murdered?
No one.
Thus, straw man.

You keep using the word "prevent" - that's the strawman here.
No law can prevent a crime from occuring - not gun laws, or any other laws. That not how laws work.

Exactly. And if there was no law preventing this kid from going to school with a loaded gun, he couldn't be arrested for doing it.

Heh.
You have no idea how your own statement defeats your argument.

What are you talking about?

The laws preventing the kids from doing what he did did not prevent him from doing anything.
They allowed the state to arrest him, but they clearly did not prevent him from going it.

that's pretty twisted logic.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

You have to realize how ridiculous the premise that gun laws somehow fail by being violated is.

 

[M14 Shooter]

If the purpose if the law is to prevent (x), and can be demonstrated to NOT prevent (x), how can it be argued that the law is effective at its purpose? that the law is necessary to prevent (x)?
Are those law in place to prevent people from doing so?

Every law on the books exists to deter people from violating it.

So, the laws you brought up - jaywalking, murder, murder of a police officer - are indeed NOT in place to prevent these crimes.
Thank you.

Gun laws aren't in place to "prevent" all gun crimes, either. They exist to deter gun crimes.

Really?
Sounds like you need to enlighten a good number of people who seek to "prevent".
States United to Prevent Gun Violence | Empowering State Advocates to Save Lives
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence
We know how to prevent gun violence, so why don’t we?
https://www.barackobama.com/gun-violence-prevention/
(the list goes on....)

You are confusing rhetoric for reality.

Reality?
That even though these people call for things that will "prevent" any number of gun-related crimes, they know the laws they want to implement will "prevent" no such thing?
That is, they have to lie to get what they want?

 

[M14 Shooter]

You keep using the word "prevent" - that's the strawman here.
No law can prevent a crime from occuring - not gun laws, or any other laws. That not how laws work.

Exactly. And if there was no law preventing this kid from going to school with a loaded gun, he couldn't be arrested for doing it.

Heh.
You have no idea how your own statement defeats your argument.

What are you talking about?

The laws preventing the kids from doing what he did did not prevent him from doing anything.
They allowed the state to arrest him, but they clearly did not prevent him from going it.

that's pretty twisted logic.

If by "twisted" you mean "unassailable'. then yes.

 

[HappyJoy]

Every law on the books exists to deter people from violating it.

So, the laws you brought up - jaywalking, murder, murder of a police officer - are indeed NOT in place to prevent these crimes.
Thank you.

Gun laws aren't in place to "prevent" all gun crimes, either. They exist to deter gun crimes.

Really?
Sounds like you need to enlighten a good number of people who seek to "prevent".
States United to Prevent Gun Violence | Empowering State Advocates to Save Lives
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence
We know how to prevent gun violence, so why don’t we?
https://www.barackobama.com/gun-violence-prevention/
(the list goes on....)

You are confusing rhetoric for reality.

Reality?
That even though these people call for things that will "prevent" any number of gun-related crimes, they know the laws they want to implement will "prevent" no such thing?
That is, they have to lie to get what they want?

Thank god the gun was legally taken away from that kid, amiright?

 

[Anathema]

What might have/could/will negate this and potentially other future incidents will only be determined after we see what charges are brought, the disposition of the case; and whether it impacts the frequency and severity of furure incidents.

Until there is a resolution to this case nothing can be determined.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You have to realize how ridiculous the premise that gun laws somehow fail by being violated is.

Did they succeed in their intended effect? No.
Did they prevent the crime from being committed, as is their purpose? No.
Demonstrable failure to achieve an intended effect is a clear indication of inefficacy.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Every law on the books exists to deter people from violating it.

So, the laws you brought up - jaywalking, murder, murder of a police officer - are indeed NOT in place to prevent these crimes.
Thank you.

Gun laws aren't in place to "prevent" all gun crimes, either. They exist to deter gun crimes.

Really?
Sounds like you need to enlighten a good number of people who seek to "prevent".
States United to Prevent Gun Violence | Empowering State Advocates to Save Lives
Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence
Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence
We know how to prevent gun violence, so why don’t we?
https://www.barackobama.com/gun-violence-prevention/
(the list goes on....)

You are confusing rhetoric for reality.

Reality?
That even though these people call for things that will "prevent" any number of gun-related crimes, they know the laws they want to implement will "prevent" no such thing?
That is, they have to lie to get what they want?

If gun laws stop a single criminal from buying a gun, they've "prevented" that criminal from getting a gun at that moment.

The mistake you're making is translating that to the ludicrous idea that the law fails by not "preventing" all criminals from getting guns, all the time.

Basically every first world country has laws to "prevent" illegal immigration - and yet, there are still illegal immigrants in all of those countries. Does that make immigration controls failures that should be done away with?