Top Three Mysteries in Liberal Beliefs

[HenryBHough]

To shoot liberal fish in a barrel one must first have a very liberal barrel.

Ergo, USMB.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Moonglow
A. MEDIA BIAS vs. solutions promoted nationally

if you are interested in better more informed media
do you support Pacifica Radio Foundation and community managed programming?

If so, would you support a $10 million fundraising campaign
www.10million.net
($2 million EACH) to organize all 5 national stations
around Progressive reforms and solutions to
1. Immigration and worker/labor reforms
KPFA, LA
2. Environmental restoration, jobs and development in
clean energy and cleaning up pollution and stopping waste/destruction
KPFK, Berkeley
3. Women's issues and restitution for rape, trafficking and abuse
to be invested in microloans and grants to help women in recovery
WBAI, NY
4. Prison and health care reform
through teaching hospitals, public service internships to pay for
medical education, and training communities to run their own coops
to cut crime so the same resources can pay for health care and education
KFPT, Houston
B. Constitutional education, corrections and restitutions for govt abuses,
law enforcement and military/VA reforms
WPFW, DC

If interested in ONE of these areas, Moonglow
WHICH Presidential candidates would you ask for help to organize
resources to solve these problems where you would like to help
on that team. And what job would you want to be paid to do?

Get people to stop listening to hussle jockeys like Rush, Hannity, CNN et al.. They really are the problem they are never the solution. More town hall meetings and a general education of the issues by telling the truth for a change.

B. OTHER NOTES OF INTEREST

1. SEAN HANNITY supports Medical Cooperatives
So this ties in with supporting NONPROFIT health care Cooperatives
that can empower people to manage and afford their own
systems of UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE without needing
to push any additional legislation through govt

2. If you care about ENVIRONMENTAL issues
MICHAEL SAVAGE
is a staunch Environmental Conservationists
against killing animals and believes in keeping
the federal regulations protecting the environment and wildlife

So not ALL "rightwing" radio is against Liberal causes.

3. MICHELLE MALKIN is against the drug wars
and against treating nonviolent users the same as dangerous
cartel dealers and gang members, so she supports
criminal justice reform and criticizes rightwing for backing bad policies.

 

[emilynghiem]

To shoot liberal fish in a barrel one must first have a very liberal barrel.

Ergo, USMB.

Dear HenryBHough
Not trying to "shoot fish in a barrel"
I'm trying to fish for answers corrections and solutions
from my fellow Progressives on here.

So we can actually map out plans that can solve
these problems effectively.


Thanks Pogo and Moonglow
Can I please ask you help to follow up with
other people who posted objections on here.

Objections are not enough to solve problems.
I need to draw from everyone SPECIFIC solutions
we AGREE to focus on. Just objecting doesn't
give me anything to work with. I can't read minds.

 

[emilynghiem]

You've never actually met a liberal, have you.

Dear Crepitus
I am a Progressive who works with both Greens and Democrats in my home
district of Freedmen's Town, where I have been working for over 20
years to save the Campus Plans that local leaders including Democrats
developed, passed as part of federal laws, and tried to enforce.

So I consider myself Liberal in terms of being democratically
inclusive of the minority interests the Democrats lobby to serve.

Until last month I identified as Democrat, and only because my
friends with the Green Party needed me to help them at a convention,
I was required to sign up as a Delegate with the Greens in order to participate.

I hope I can finish helping my friends and go back and rescue
the Democratic Party from itself, either as a member or as a supporter
through the Greens if I have to remain affiliated with them.

So I consider myself equally sympathetic with Liberals and Progressives
I am trying to work with to save Freedmen's Town and to set up
Health Care cooperatives through different districts and precincts.

As for my political beliefs, I identify as CONSTITUTIONALIST.

You could say I'm more like a Constitutional Democrat who believes the Social
programs can best be managed by free choice through cooperatives
run by district or by party or other affiliated groups, not forced through federal govt.

Or a Universal Constitutionalist where I believe in the same principles
as more conservative Constitutionalists, but believe in treating ALL
beliefs equally as part of "religious freedom" and respecting everyone's choices
instead of excluding anyone from equal representation and participation in the
democratic process.

I believe we need Proportional Representation by party and a consensus
process of making decisions on policies where NOBODY's beliefs are
infringed on or forced to compromise by govt, but solutions are
formulated by including everyone's interests, beliefs, free choice and consent.

 

[G.T.]

To shoot liberal fish in a barrel one must first have a very liberal barrel.

Ergo, USMB.

Dear HenryBHough
Not trying to "shoot fish in a barrel"
I'm trying to fish for answers corrections and solutions
from my fellow Progressives on here.

So we can actually map out plans that can solve
these problems effectively.


Thanks Pogo and Moonglow
Can I please ask you help to follow up with
other people who posted objections on here.

Objections are not enough to solve problems.
I need to draw from everyone SPECIFIC solutions
we AGREE to focus on. Just objecting doesn't
give me anything to work with. I can't read minds.

You started a thread about a group, that....as a group...doesnt believe the things youve grossly generalized and laid at their feet...

and now youre wanting solutions to the things the group doesnt even believe in the first place.

 

[Crepitus]

You've never actually met a liberal, have you.

Dear Crepitus
I am a Progressive who works with both Greens and Democrats in my home
district of Freedmen's Town, where I have been working for over 20
years to save the Campus Plans that local leaders including Democrats
developed, passed as part of federal laws, and tried to enforce.

So I consider myself Liberal in terms of being democratically
inclusive of the minority interests the Democrats lobby to serve.

Until last month I identified as Democrat, and only because my
friends with the Green Party needed me to help them at a convention,
I was required to sign up as a Delegate with the Greens in order to participate.

I hope I can finish helping my friends and go back and rescue
the Democratic Party from itself, either as a member or as a supporter
through the Greens if I have to remain affiliated with them.

So I consider myself equally sympathetic with Liberals and Progressives
I am trying to work with to save Freedmen's Town and to set up
Health Care cooperatives through different districts and precincts.

As for my political beliefs, I identify as CONSTITUTIONALIST.

You could say I'm more like a Constitutional Democrat who believes the Social
programs can best be managed by free choice through cooperatives
run by district or by party or other affiliated groups, not forced through federal govt.

Or a Universal Constitutionalist where I believe in the same principles
as more conservative Constitutionalists, but believe in treating ALL
beliefs equally as part of "religious freedom" and respecting everyone's choices
instead of excluding anyone from equal representation and participation in the
democratic process.

I believe we need Proportional Representation by party and a consensus
process of making decisions on policies where NOBODY's beliefs are
infringed on or forced to compromise by govt, but solutions are
formulated by including everyone's interests, beliefs, free choice and consent.

Then why all the straw man crap in the OP?

 

[emilynghiem]

MYSTERY B:
How can Liberals afford "universal health care" for all people except by
providing charitable and voluntary services. While the same liberals
demand minimum wage at 15.00 an hour and don't want slave labor.

How can you have both?

We can have both universal health care and a $15 minimum wage
They are mutually exclusive
Yes, I don’t want slave labor

^ Okay rightwinger so we agree no slave labor.

Can you explain how to have $15 minimum wage for everything.

What are businesses going to do that can't afford that.
Ask students to volunteer for free as part of internships?
Rely on volunteers?
Cut down on staff, and make jobs UNSAFE by putting
MORE workload on FEWER people to afford paying 15/hour?

Are you telling me that Nonprofits that could have paid
workers $10-12 an hour now have to rely on those
people VOLUNTEERING because they can't afford
to pay more without breaking employment laws?

????

NOTE: knowing you, I THINK we must be talking
about different things. But if you can answer my
above questions, that would clarify where I am
not understanding what you mean when you
say $15 an hour because some businesses
can't afford that. I've worked places that
could only afford 10-12 an hour while
building up their businesses. If they
had to pay 15 they couldn't grow their business.

 

[emilynghiem]

MYSTERY C:

Liberals who believe in "separation of church and state" and don't
want Christians IMPLEMENTING their beliefs through schools and public institutions
want their SOCIALIST beliefs (such as health care for all people including immigrants)
mandated, regulated and paid for through Federal Govt forcing all TAXPAYERS to comply

I believe in separation of church and state

Healthcare is not a religion

Dear rightwinger
Thanks again for responding point by point.

BELIEF that "health care is a right"
is a POLITICAL BELIEF.

BELIEVING that health care for everyone
requires going through govt (as opposed
to locally owned cooperatives for example)
becomes a POLITICAL RELIGION.

SOCIALISM and insisting that for the people
to manage health care it "has to be through govt"
is a POLITICAL RELIGION.

Do you understand the difference between
* health care for everyone through FREE CHOICE
of BOTH govt programs or free market programs
coordinated through cooperatives
* FORCED funding and TERMS OF SERVICE
dictated and regulated through GOVT POLICIES
that people cannot change but vote on indirectly
through govt representatives

So "having faith" in free market systems to
develop cost effective health care by DEMOCRATIZING
it with local ownership and free choice by individuals
is DIFFERENT
from NOT HAVING FAITH and
BELIEVING that GOVT is necessary to protect
and managing health care for the public.

Do you understand the DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN THESE TWO POLITICAL BELIEFS
(about health care but also about the
role of govt in general).

Thanks rightwinger!
This is a bit hard to communicate this idea
online. I wish we could talk in person, on this
idea, which I think would be easier. Sorry!

 

[emilynghiem]

Sorry Pogo that tribalism is not my point or purpose
but to show ways to resolve issues that otherwise get tribalized.

Thank you for your corrections, now can we please
go back to your first response I liked that offered a BETTER approach:

I've actually BEEN posting on #1 since the day I got here, time after time. To reiterate yet again, I don't believe in throwing laws at everything, particularly when the issue is a SOCIAL one rather than a legal one. Such is the case here. We don't have a gun violence problem because we have this law or don't have that law --- we have a gun violence problem because we swim in the soup of a culture that glorifies it. "Laws" don't change that. They can't.

So I question the very premise that such condition needs or begs a legal solution. That's a spiritual condition, not a legal one. As long as we swim in the soup of a culture of death and violence, that value will continue to infect, laws or no laws.

And more fundamentally I challenge your assertion that "Liberals want this" and "Liberals want that". Not only is that a blanket generalization but it's a strawman too. If you want the actual Liberal perspective, I just articulated it.

I asked what could we do to follow up:
Top Three Mysteries in Liberal Beliefs

Okay @Pogo great we agree there is a SPIRITUAL condition going on.

Let's start with that.

Given the conflicts and political pushing over gun rights,
gun laws, gun violence and anything related
where do you see a SPIRITUAL change can focus on

1. better screening and treatment for criminal and mental illness
2. better training and cooperation on safe law enforcement between citizens and police
3. better community development and conflict resolution in schools and in politics/govt
4. better use of media to promote better approaches/solutions

Where would you like to see a new beginning
and different approach to solving politics around gun issues?

Pogo
Did you not care for any of the ideas to follow up on what you brought up
about the SPIRITUAL conditions?

If not, what about the responses with Moonglow
were there any points THERE you think are better to focus on?

MSG 1 on points A B C D

Top Three Mysteries in Liberal Beliefs

A. Health care cooperatives owned and democratically
managed by people and providers directly and locally?
www.patientphysiciancooperatives.com

B. Worker owned business cooperatives?
As Sanders and his supporters advocate as solutions.

C. Nonprofit Microlending and business training programs?
www.grameenfoundation.org

D. Building and/or organizing locally owned Campus
programs to supervise education, job training, and services
to break the cycle of poverty while teaching ownership and management?
www.paceuniversal.com

MSG 2 on 5 AREAS of Progressive Reforms
and proposal for $10 million national campaign
to organize teams around 5 public radio stations
to promote and develop SOLUTIONS in these 5 areas:

Top Three Mysteries in Liberal Beliefs

if you are interested in better more informed media
do you support Pacifica Radio Foundation and community managed programming?

If so, would you support a $10 million fundraising campaign
www.10million.net
($2 million EACH) to organize all 5 national stations
around Progressive reforms and solutions to
1. Immigration and worker/labor reforms
KPFA, LA
2. Environmental restoration, jobs and development in
clean energy and cleaning up pollution and stopping waste/destruction
KPFK, Berkeley
3. Women's issues and restitution for rape, trafficking and abuse
to be invested in microloans and grants to help women in recovery
WBAI, NY
4. Prison and health care reform
through teaching hospitals, public service internships to pay for
medical education, and training communities to run their own coops
to cut crime so the same resources can pay for health care and education
KFPT, Houston
B. Constitutional education, corrections and restitutions for govt abuses,
law enforcement and military/VA reforms
WPFW, DC

If interested in ONE of these areas, Pogo
WHICH Presidential candidates would you ask for help to organize
resources to solve these problems?

He'll never answer.

Then miketx and Pogo
how DO we present these issues
where people WILL present better solutions?

How would YOU ask and answer
so we still get ideas or directions
toward more effective solutions
that make sense to all sides?

Thanks!

Stop with the emotive rhetoric from politicians..

Start posting CORRECTIONS Moonglow
or do you Pogo and Siete want to start
a list of Conservative Contradictions
and ask for Corrections/Solutions to those?

Is that easier for you than answering this list of points?

Thanks either way. I think we need both,
so wherever you want to start, is helpful!
Thank you Moonglow. You go!

Why would we want to dive into the same blanket generalization fallacy you started with? Did my admonition sail right over your head?

I don't believe in specific "conservative contradictions" or "Liberal positions" as such.. People are individuals with free will. Stop trying to herd them into labels. You want to analyze a specific position for this or against that, have at it, but stop labeling them as "Liberal" or "conservative" as if that's all the can be, and argue the actual merits. Haven't we overachieved in tribalism already? Enough already.

 

[emilynghiem]

You started a thread about a group, that....as a group...doesnt believe the things youve grossly generalized and laid at their feet...

and now youre wanting solutions to the things the group doesnt even believe in the first place.

Well stated G.T.
That's probably how Conservatives feel when Liberals blame them
for things that are not the problem or solution they are about either!

Which of the following 5 areas would you feel your Progressive
and/or Political Activism and your Musical Talents could be
most useful and effective focused:

1. Immigration and worker/labor reforms
KPFA, LA
2. Environmental restoration, jobs and development in
clean energy and cleaning up pollution and stopping waste/destruction
KPFK, Berkeley
3. Women's issues and restitution for rape, trafficking and abuse
to be invested in microloans and grants to help women in recovery
WBAI, NY
4. Prison and health care reform
through teaching hospitals, public service internships to pay for
medical education, and training communities to run their own coops
to cut crime so the same resources can pay for health care and education
KFPT, Houston
B. Constitutional education, corrections and restitutions for govt abuses,
law enforcement and military/VA reforms
WPFW, DC

 

[emilynghiem]

MYSTERY A:
How can Liberals only want POLICE to have guns
but then don't trust POLICE with guns either.
What is the solution?

I'm a liberal. I never said any of that crap.

Emily is on her game tonight
Her mind is going in six different directions at once

Dear rightwinger
Pick one area you care enough about that
you would contact a Presidential candidate
and support building a Team and paid jobs around.

1. Immigration and worker/labor reforms
KPFA, LA
2. Environmental restoration, jobs and development in
clean energy and cleaning up pollution and stopping waste/destruction
KPFK, Berkeley
3. Women's issues and restitution for rape, trafficking and abuse
to be invested in microloans and grants to help women in recovery
WBAI, NY
4. Prison and health care reform
through teaching hospitals, public service internships to pay for
medical education, and training communities to run their own coops
to cut crime so the same resources can pay for health care and education
KFPT, Houston
B. Constitutional education, corrections and restitutions for govt abuses,
law enforcement and military/VA reforms
WPFW, DC

 

[emilynghiem]

No I am serious. At their core conservatives are hypersensitive to threats real and imagined. Makes them a little crazy to live in such a dangerous world where liberals seem to ignore the ever present peril that threatens to engulf us all.On the other hand liberals are hypersensitive to suffering, even when it is people we don't know. Conservatives trying to eliminate threats (real or imagined) often brings them into conflict with liberals who are trying to alleviate the suffering in the world.

Thank you occupied
Very well elaborated!

Can you please name some areas and places of irrational projection
and contradiction? I named three, I could think of off hand*,
but maybe you have other ideas and experiences.

If you would please spell out SPECIFIC areas,
I will try to compile a SIMILAR list on Conservative
contradictions and ask help to clarify those as well!

Thank you occupied
And what you explained in detailed description above
sounds like what Conservatives ALSO think of Liberals
making a political crisis out of issues that could
be solved without "relying on federal govt as the only way."
That's sounds like it's pretty mutual.
Thank you for spelling this out,
if you can please illustrate with SPECIFIC examples
we can examine those equally. Thanks!
------------------------------------
* Here was my rough draft of 3 areas where
Conservatives come across as self-contradictory:
(occupied if you have more interesting specific
examples of contradictions you keep running into
with Conservatives, can you please reply and post those?)

Top Three Mysteries in Liberal Beliefs

What is the equivalent list for Conservatives
where Liberals accuse them of contradictions?

1. Prolife but not caring about health care
2. Constitutional limits on govt and NOT establishing religion
but pushing their Christian beliefs about LGBT and abortion through govt
(and some discriminate against Muslims and want to punish them collectively
whether they are guilty of terrorism or just guilty by association)
3. claiming to support independent business/private sector development and free market
WITHOUT depending on Govt, but then pushing to elect people to Govt offices to
mandate solutions through Govt (while they blame Liberals for such dependence)
INSTEAD OF SOLVING PROBLEMS OUTSIDE OF GOVT BY PRIVATE BUSINESS AND CHARITIES

 

[emilynghiem]

You've never actually met a liberal, have you.

Dear Crepitus
I am a Progressive who works with both Greens and Democrats in my home
district of Freedmen's Town, where I have been working for over 20
years to save the Campus Plans that local leaders including Democrats
developed, passed as part of federal laws, and tried to enforce.

So I consider myself Liberal in terms of being democratically
inclusive of the minority interests the Democrats lobby to serve.

Until last month I identified as Democrat, and only because my
friends with the Green Party needed me to help them at a convention,
I was required to sign up as a Delegate with the Greens in order to participate.

I hope I can finish helping my friends and go back and rescue
the Democratic Party from itself, either as a member or as a supporter
through the Greens if I have to remain affiliated with them.

So I consider myself equally sympathetic with Liberals and Progressives
I am trying to work with to save Freedmen's Town and to set up
Health Care cooperatives through different districts and precincts.

As for my political beliefs, I identify as CONSTITUTIONALIST.

You could say I'm more like a Constitutional Democrat who believes the Social
programs can best be managed by free choice through cooperatives
run by district or by party or other affiliated groups, not forced through federal govt.

Or a Universal Constitutionalist where I believe in the same principles
as more conservative Constitutionalists, but believe in treating ALL
beliefs equally as part of "religious freedom" and respecting everyone's choices
instead of excluding anyone from equal representation and participation in the
democratic process.

I believe we need Proportional Representation by party and a consensus
process of making decisions on policies where NOBODY's beliefs are
infringed on or forced to compromise by govt, but solutions are
formulated by including everyone's interests, beliefs, free choice and consent.

Then why all the straw man crap in the OP?

Dear Crepitus
I was just starting with the most baffling perceptions in general
I've compiled from talking with fellow Progressives and Conservatives
who don't understand where the other is coming from.

If we don't learn to communicate and talk about where the real
problems are, what's wrong with the political solutions we think are the
answer, and how to correct those where all sides are satisfied these
are the best most effective solutions, then we'll never get there
if "all we see in the media" are this baffling contradictory messages back and forth.

the most PREVALENT perception I run across from BOTH sides:
A. "you can't work with them, they don't care, they don't want solutions"
B. "they won't go for a solution like that, because it doesn't fit their agenda"
C. "that will take too long to find people to support that. So we just have
to vote them out of office."

And both sides argue this about each other, thinking they are the only side
that CARES and the other is lost in agenda? How is this possible, if they
both care but don't see how the other side cares? ???

Crepitus when I talk to people INDIVIDUALLY we can focus on what
we REALLY want to see happen, what we REALLY don't want to happen.
Solutions we WOULD be WILLING to try "if you could get the other
party to do that, but they won't so good luck, maybe next century"

It's FUNNY and SAD at the same time that INDIVIDUALLY people
will be open to solutions, but GIVE UP because of their perception
of the OTHER GROUP not wanting to do that. But the "other group"
is made up of INDIVIDUALS!

It seems to me if we could just break down these "intimidating groups"
into individuals who DO care about better solutions, and match them up
in teams, we could get funds invested in BETTER SOLUTIONS just
starting small. Once it gets going maybe OTHERS will join and it
can influence "whole groups" to take a deeper look at better
solutions more seriously.

Instead, this collective thinking discourages people from asking
for different approaches. Why can't we pinpoint areas we think
are better, and organize around those? Why can't just a few
people form teams and eventually influence larger groups?

 

[WTH_Progs?]

Let's be honest, can you think of A SINGLE prog-narrative that makes sense? Just one will do, pretty please, list one. I don't care who does it, just one..........one............Go!

 

[emilynghiem]

if RW's spent as much time, and energy solving their own issues as they do slinging mud at liberals they might gain a little credibility -

She did no mud slinging whatsoever... simply asking questions. If anyone around here has credibility it has to be Em. Shes one of the more thoughtful posters on the forum. Either your out of your mind or in deep denial.

Thank you Yarddog
If I could get more to respond like Pogo and G.T.
I'd like to formulate solid strategies and business plans.

If we can actually agree on more Constitutional and cost effective solutions
that satisfy the goals of both left and right,
why couldn't we PITCH the plans to Presidential candidates, create
jobs in policy and program development?

If this succeeds in shifting social programs back to local democratic management, in order
to reduce burdens and political complications with federal govt, why couldn't CONSERVATIVE business interests and investors be invited to SUPPORT these efforts, through paid Mentorship/Internship training in self-government and financial management, for the purpose of eliminating govt abuses and waste to get it back within limits?

All we'd need is to show a VIABLE business plan for making cost effective reforms
that are more ethical, constitutional, cost effective and sustainable.

Why wouldn't conservatives PREFER to fund that with tax deductible investments
loans or donations, instead of trying to push failed proposals through govt on taxpayers.

 

[emilynghiem]

Let's be honest, can you think of A SINGLE prog-narrative that makes sense? Just one will do, pretty please, list one. I don't care who does it, just one..........one............Go!

Dear WTH_Progs?

How about reducing the crime rate so that the 50K a year wasted on incarcerating people who cannot work,
gets re-invested in paying for health care programs and medical education with the same tax resources.

Giving tax deductions for districts that implement crime prevention to save costs for investing in local health care facilities would give INCENTIVE for people and families with criminal illness, addiction or disorders to GO AND GET MEDICAL HELP BEFORE CRIMES ARE COMMITTED. That way, the money they save pays for local clinics run by medical interns, and everyone benefits.
If families let drugs, abuse, addictions and crime run rampant, that's money that isn't paying for elderly care, daycare, and health care for their own community.

 

[emilynghiem]

Let's be honest, can you think of A SINGLE prog-narrative that makes sense? Just one will do, pretty please, list one. I don't care who does it, just one..........one............Go!

Another solution WTH_Progs?

Microlending and business training
in place of govt welfare handouts.

www.grameenfoundation.org

 

[Disir]

MYSTERY A:
How can Liberals only want POLICE to have guns
but then don't trust POLICE with guns either.
What is the solution?

I'm a liberal. I never said any of that crap.

Thank you. That's why I noted the thread was built on a stack of strawmen.

She creates nonsensical arguments so she can put prepared nonsensical responses in.

 

[rightwinger]

MYSTERY B:
How can Liberals afford "universal health care" for all people except by
providing charitable and voluntary services. While the same liberals
demand minimum wage at 15.00 an hour and don't want slave labor.

How can you have both?

We can have both universal health care and a $15 minimum wage
They are mutually exclusive
Yes, I don’t want slave labor

^ Okay rightwinger so we agree no slave labor.

Can you explain how to have $15 minimum wage for everything.

What are businesses going to do that can't afford that.
Ask students to volunteer for free as part of internships?
Rely on volunteers?
Cut down on staff, and make jobs UNSAFE by putting
MORE workload on FEWER people to afford paying 15/hour?

Are you telling me that Nonprofits that could have paid
workers $10-12 an hour now have to rely on those
people VOLUNTEERING because they can't afford
to pay more without breaking employment laws?

????

NOTE: knowing you, I THINK we must be talking
about different things. But if you can answer my
above questions, that would clarify where I am
not understanding what you mean when you
say $15 an hour because some businesses
can't afford that. I've worked places that
could only afford 10-12 an hour while
building up their businesses. If they
had to pay 15 they couldn't grow their business.

You are talking about two mutually exclusive issues.
A $15 min wage has NOTHING to do with universal healthcare

Since they are separate issues, I will address them separately
How do we get to a $15 wage? Easy when the $7.25 wage hasn’t been increased in ten years. You have pity for the poor businesses having to pay more, but have no sympathy for students working minimum wage who have to make up for decade low wages with increased borrowing.
If a business can’t survive without expecting workers to survive on $7.25 an hour, they don’t deserve to survive

As to Universal Healthcare, it gets paid for from the money employers and employees now pay for private insurance

 

[rightwinger]

Let's be honest, can you think of A SINGLE prog-narrative that makes sense? Just one will do, pretty please, list one. I don't care who does it, just one..........one............Go!

Universal Healthcare