Trump Administration In Effect Misses a "Whiffle Ball"

[MisterBeale]

There is a civil war going on between the public state and the bureaucratic deep state, and you are clueless how this is different from a public corporation.

Naturally they want him to look bad. Looks like it worked.

If only the government were as transparent and the POTUS had as much control as you think he does.

See the addendum added to the OP:

Are any of you right-wing members here going to actually address the points of the OP?

• The nature and extent to which Trump has a handle on what his Administration's departments and agencies are doing/thinking.
• The nature and extent to which Trump has, a grip or doesn't on how to run the government he's now head of.

Or are you folks only able to deflect and remark upon just about anything other than the actual thread topic?
​

Nobody holds Trump "at gunpoint" and make him tweet "X" will happen, and that's exactly what he does, and in this instance, as so many times before, did.

Well, I'm not right wing, but I am a critical thinker, and if you weren't so partisan, I am sure you are smart enough to answer you own questions.

First, you should know that entire government departments and agencies are not replaced when a new president is ushered into office, only the heads of them are. Although bureaucrats are supposed to be "non-partisan" they are, by nature, a bit to the left. Conservatives, or, more appropriately in this regard, small government folks, don't think there is a need for large bureaucratic organizations. Well, if you are a bureaucrat, you probably aren't going to really hold that POV. Due to civil service protections, none of these bureaucrats can be fired simply b/c they #RESIST, the Trump agenda.

When of my favorite sit-com characters is this guy from Parks & Recreation that is a picture in irony, precisely because he is such a character; a libertarian bureaucrat. No such thing.


So that addresses your first point.

To the second point? I think Trump is aware of these civil service protection, and thus, he can only get so much done by issuing executive orders and coming to negotiated compromises with the heads of the various departments on making headway on his agenda.

These tweets are, as I am sure you are aware, mostly for political consumption for his hard core base that keeps him buoyed.

he can only get so much done by issuing executive order

What part of this....

The POTUS does have unilateral authority to declassify whatever the hell he wants to have declassified.

...did you not understand? None of his major legislative agenda items depends on the JFK files remaining classified and none of it depends on appeasing the CIA/FBI.

I agree with you. However, avoiding sharing JFK's fate, or Richard Nixon's fate might just depend on coming to some sort of compromise with these very agencies. You would be wise not to underestimate the man that beat HRC when she had the entire corrupt establishment in her pocket.

Neither underestimation nor overestimation have anything to do with the matter of the JFK file/document release and what I said about it in my OP. Trump and Trump alone asserted/implied they'd all be released, and that is not what happened. He could have said nothing about it , yet he didn't. He could have said some more of them would be released, yet he didn't. He could have let whatever documents got released be released and then remark upon their content, yet he didn't.

I do give him credit for subsequently issuing a few more apt remarks on the matter.

• "It is my hope to get just about everything to public!"
• "After strict consultation with General Kelly, the CIA and other agencies, I will be releasing ALL JFK files other than the names and addresses of any mentioned person who is still living. I am doing this for reasons of full disclosure, transparency and in order to put any and all conspiracy theories to rest." (Source)

Frankly, he should have stopped with just the first of those remarks because it states what he has in mind and does not put him at risk of later being found to have over-promised and under-delivered:

• It is the one that is almost certainly 100% accurate,
• It promises nothing he cannot deliver, or at least be shown plausibly not to have delivered, and
• Unlike the second pair of statements, there won't and cannot be later refuted on a factual basis when the entirety of what remained undisclosed is determined.

Indeed, that first statement is precisely what his initial remarks should about the document release should have entailed, assuming he felt compelled to say anything prior to the actual release. There simply is no good reason for a mature adult, most especially a 70 year-old, of integrity to make any other kind of statement, that is a statement that overstates what they are 100% certain they personally both can and are willing to make happen.

I'll agree with that, but he doesn't tweet for accuracy, or to appease the Democratic base now does he? Accuracy is not something he cares much about.

I suppose when the corporate media is precise we can expect the same from him.

 

[whitehall]

Much ado about nothing.

 

[BULLDOG]

There is a civil war going on between the public state and the bureaucratic deep state, and you are clueless how this is different from a public corporation.

Naturally they want him to look bad. Looks like it worked.

If only the government were as transparent and the POTUS had as much control as you think he does.

See the addendum added to the OP:

Are any of you right-wing members here going to actually address the points of the OP?

• The nature and extent to which Trump has a handle on what his Administration's departments and agencies are doing/thinking.
• The nature and extent to which Trump has, a grip or doesn't on how to run the government he's now head of.

Or are you folks only able to deflect and remark upon just about anything other than the actual thread topic?
​

Nobody holds Trump "at gunpoint" and make him tweet "X" will happen, and that's exactly what he does, and in this instance, as so many times before, did.

Well, I'm not right wing, but I am a critical thinker, and if you weren't so partisan, I am sure you are smart enough to answer you own questions.

First, you should know that entire government departments and agencies are not replaced when a new president is ushered into office, only the heads of them are. Although bureaucrats are supposed to be "non-partisan" they are, by nature, a bit to the left. Conservatives, or, more appropriately in this regard, small government folks, don't think there is a need for large bureaucratic organizations. Well, if you are a bureaucrat, you probably aren't going to really hold that POV. Due to civil service protections, none of these bureaucrats can be fired simply b/c they #RESIST, the Trump agenda.

When of my favorite sit-com characters is this guy from Parks & Recreation that is a picture in irony, precisely because he is such a character; a libertarian bureaucrat. No such thing.


So that addresses your first point.

To the second point? I think Trump is aware of these civil service protection, and thus, he can only get so much done by issuing executive orders and coming to negotiated compromises with the heads of the various departments on making headway on his agenda.

These tweets are, as I am sure you are aware, mostly for political consumption for his hard core base that keeps him buoyed.

he can only get so much done by issuing executive order

What part of this....

The POTUS does have unilateral authority to declassify whatever the hell he wants to have declassified.

...did you not understand? None of his major legislative agenda items depends on the JFK files remaining classified and none of it depends on appeasing the CIA/FBI.

I agree with you. However, avoiding sharing JFK's fate, or Richard Nixon's fate might just depend on coming to some sort of compromise with these very agencies. You would be wise not to underestimate the man that beat HRC when she had the entire corrupt establishment in her pocket.

Neither underestimation nor overestimation have anything to do with the matter of the JFK file/document release and what I said about it in my OP. Trump and Trump alone asserted/implied they'd all be released, and that is not what happened. He could have said nothing about it , yet he didn't. He could have said some more of them would be released, yet he didn't. He could have let whatever documents got released be released and then remark upon their content, yet he didn't.

I do give him credit for subsequently issuing a few more apt remarks on the matter.

• "It is my hope to get just about everything to public!"
• "After strict consultation with General Kelly, the CIA and other agencies, I will be releasing ALL JFK files other than the names and addresses of any mentioned person who is still living. I am doing this for reasons of full disclosure, transparency and in order to put any and all conspiracy theories to rest." (Source)

Frankly, he should have stopped with just the first of those remarks because it states what he has in mind and does not put him at risk of later being found to have over-promised and under-delivered:

• It is the one that is almost certainly 100% accurate,
• It promises nothing he cannot deliver, or at least be shown plausibly not to have delivered, and
• Unlike the second pair of statements, there won't and cannot be later refuted on a factual basis when the entirety of what remained undisclosed is determined.

Indeed, that first statement is precisely what his initial remarks should about the document release should have entailed, assuming he felt compelled to say anything prior to the actual release. There simply is no good reason for a mature adult, most especially a 70 year-old, of integrity to make any other kind of statement, that is a statement that overstates what they are 100% certain they personally both can and are willing to make happen.

I'll agree with that, but he doesn't tweet for accuracy, or to appease the Democratic base now does he? Accuracy is not something he cares much about.

I suppose when the corporate media is precise we can expect the same from him.

Just think about that statement for a minute. The President of the United States doesn't tweet for accuracy. If that doesn't scare you to death, what would?

 

[usmbguest5318]

There is a civil war going on between the public state and the bureaucratic deep state, and you are clueless how this is different from a public corporation.

Naturally they want him to look bad. Looks like it worked.

If only the government were as transparent and the POTUS had as much control as you think he does.

See the addendum added to the OP:

Are any of you right-wing members here going to actually address the points of the OP?

• The nature and extent to which Trump has a handle on what his Administration's departments and agencies are doing/thinking.
• The nature and extent to which Trump has, a grip or doesn't on how to run the government he's now head of.

Or are you folks only able to deflect and remark upon just about anything other than the actual thread topic?
​

Nobody holds Trump "at gunpoint" and make him tweet "X" will happen, and that's exactly what he does, and in this instance, as so many times before, did.

Well, I'm not right wing, but I am a critical thinker, and if you weren't so partisan, I am sure you are smart enough to answer you own questions.

First, you should know that entire government departments and agencies are not replaced when a new president is ushered into office, only the heads of them are. Although bureaucrats are supposed to be "non-partisan" they are, by nature, a bit to the left. Conservatives, or, more appropriately in this regard, small government folks, don't think there is a need for large bureaucratic organizations. Well, if you are a bureaucrat, you probably aren't going to really hold that POV. Due to civil service protections, none of these bureaucrats can be fired simply b/c they #RESIST, the Trump agenda.

When of my favorite sit-com characters is this guy from Parks & Recreation that is a picture in irony, precisely because he is such a character; a libertarian bureaucrat. No such thing.


So that addresses your first point.

To the second point? I think Trump is aware of these civil service protection, and thus, he can only get so much done by issuing executive orders and coming to negotiated compromises with the heads of the various departments on making headway on his agenda.

These tweets are, as I am sure you are aware, mostly for political consumption for his hard core base that keeps him buoyed.

he can only get so much done by issuing executive order

What part of this....

The POTUS does have unilateral authority to declassify whatever the hell he wants to have declassified.

...did you not understand? None of his major legislative agenda items depends on the JFK files remaining classified and none of it depends on appeasing the CIA/FBI.

I agree with you. However, avoiding sharing JFK's fate, or Richard Nixon's fate might just depend on coming to some sort of compromise with these very agencies. You would be wise not to underestimate the man that beat HRC when she had the entire corrupt establishment in her pocket.

Neither underestimation nor overestimation have anything to do with the matter of the JFK file/document release and what I said about it in my OP. Trump and Trump alone asserted/implied they'd all be released, and that is not what happened. He could have said nothing about it , yet he didn't. He could have said some more of them would be released, yet he didn't. He could have let whatever documents got released be released and then remark upon their content, yet he didn't.

I do give him credit for subsequently issuing a few more apt remarks on the matter.

• "It is my hope to get just about everything to public!"
• "After strict consultation with General Kelly, the CIA and other agencies, I will be releasing ALL JFK files other than the names and addresses of any mentioned person who is still living. I am doing this for reasons of full disclosure, transparency and in order to put any and all conspiracy theories to rest." (Source)

Frankly, he should have stopped with just the first of those remarks because it states what he has in mind and does not put him at risk of later being found to have over-promised and under-delivered:

• It is the one that is almost certainly 100% accurate,
• It promises nothing he cannot deliver, or at least be shown plausibly not to have delivered, and
• Unlike the second pair of statements, there won't and cannot be later refuted on a factual basis when the entirety of what remained undisclosed is determined.

Indeed, that first statement is precisely what his initial remarks should about the document release should have entailed, assuming he felt compelled to say anything prior to the actual release. There simply is no good reason for a mature adult, most especially a 70 year-old, of integrity to make any other kind of statement, that is a statement that overstates what they are 100% certain they personally both can and are willing to make happen.

I'll agree with that, but he doesn't tweet for accuracy, or to appease the Democratic base now does he? Accuracy is not something he cares much about.

I suppose when the corporate media is precise we can expect the same from him.

I suppose when the corporate media is precise we can expect the same from him.

Well, no. Having and exhibiting the integrity to be precise, clear, accurate, etc. is something one does on one's own, regardless of what others do. At least, if one is indeed a person of integrity and good character, it is.

People of integrity do not measure themselves against others. Surely your parents attempted to teach you that. "If everyone else did 'X,' it doesn't mean you must or should do 'X.'" Whose parents didn't teach their kids that lesson using words more or less like those in the prior sentence?

he doesn't tweet for accuracy

That is so, and that he has no regard for accuracy is a material part of the problem, the problem being his greatly flawed character, particularly the flaw called "lack of integrity." The man has none. There is nothing, great or small, that he won't misrepresent in whatever way he feels like.

And the truth of the matter is that had Trump remained out of the official governmental sphere, I wouldn't have a thing to say about it. I'd care, and, yes, I'd nonetheless eschew having anything to do with him, but I wouldn't talk or write about him.

 

[MisterBeale]

See the addendum added to the OP:

Are any of you right-wing members here going to actually address the points of the OP?

• The nature and extent to which Trump has a handle on what his Administration's departments and agencies are doing/thinking.
• The nature and extent to which Trump has, a grip or doesn't on how to run the government he's now head of.

Or are you folks only able to deflect and remark upon just about anything other than the actual thread topic?
​

Nobody holds Trump "at gunpoint" and make him tweet "X" will happen, and that's exactly what he does, and in this instance, as so many times before, did.

Well, I'm not right wing, but I am a critical thinker, and if you weren't so partisan, I am sure you are smart enough to answer you own questions.

First, you should know that entire government departments and agencies are not replaced when a new president is ushered into office, only the heads of them are. Although bureaucrats are supposed to be "non-partisan" they are, by nature, a bit to the left. Conservatives, or, more appropriately in this regard, small government folks, don't think there is a need for large bureaucratic organizations. Well, if you are a bureaucrat, you probably aren't going to really hold that POV. Due to civil service protections, none of these bureaucrats can be fired simply b/c they #RESIST, the Trump agenda.

When of my favorite sit-com characters is this guy from Parks & Recreation that is a picture in irony, precisely because he is such a character; a libertarian bureaucrat. No such thing.


So that addresses your first point.

To the second point? I think Trump is aware of these civil service protection, and thus, he can only get so much done by issuing executive orders and coming to negotiated compromises with the heads of the various departments on making headway on his agenda.

These tweets are, as I am sure you are aware, mostly for political consumption for his hard core base that keeps him buoyed.

he can only get so much done by issuing executive order

What part of this....

The POTUS does have unilateral authority to declassify whatever the hell he wants to have declassified.

...did you not understand? None of his major legislative agenda items depends on the JFK files remaining classified and none of it depends on appeasing the CIA/FBI.

I agree with you. However, avoiding sharing JFK's fate, or Richard Nixon's fate might just depend on coming to some sort of compromise with these very agencies. You would be wise not to underestimate the man that beat HRC when she had the entire corrupt establishment in her pocket.

Neither underestimation nor overestimation have anything to do with the matter of the JFK file/document release and what I said about it in my OP. Trump and Trump alone asserted/implied they'd all be released, and that is not what happened. He could have said nothing about it , yet he didn't. He could have said some more of them would be released, yet he didn't. He could have let whatever documents got released be released and then remark upon their content, yet he didn't.

I do give him credit for subsequently issuing a few more apt remarks on the matter.

• "It is my hope to get just about everything to public!"
• "After strict consultation with General Kelly, the CIA and other agencies, I will be releasing ALL JFK files other than the names and addresses of any mentioned person who is still living. I am doing this for reasons of full disclosure, transparency and in order to put any and all conspiracy theories to rest." (Source)

Frankly, he should have stopped with just the first of those remarks because it states what he has in mind and does not put him at risk of later being found to have over-promised and under-delivered:

• It is the one that is almost certainly 100% accurate,
• It promises nothing he cannot deliver, or at least be shown plausibly not to have delivered, and
• Unlike the second pair of statements, there won't and cannot be later refuted on a factual basis when the entirety of what remained undisclosed is determined.

Indeed, that first statement is precisely what his initial remarks should about the document release should have entailed, assuming he felt compelled to say anything prior to the actual release. There simply is no good reason for a mature adult, most especially a 70 year-old, of integrity to make any other kind of statement, that is a statement that overstates what they are 100% certain they personally both can and are willing to make happen.

I'll agree with that, but he doesn't tweet for accuracy, or to appease the Democratic base now does he? Accuracy is not something he cares much about.

I suppose when the corporate media is precise we can expect the same from him.

I suppose when the corporate media is precise we can expect the same from him.

Well, no. Having and exhibiting the integrity to be precise, clear, accurate, etc. is something one does on one's own, regardless of what others do. At least, if one is indeed a person of integrity and good character, it is.

People of integrity do not measure themselves against others. Surely your parents attempted to teach you that. "If everyone else did 'X,' it doesn't mean you must or should do 'X.'" Whose parents didn't teach their kids that lesson using words more or less like those in the prior sentence?

he doesn't tweet for accuracy

That is so, and that he has no regard for accuracy is a material part of the problem, the problem being his greatly flawed character, particularly the flaw called "lack of integrity." The man has none. There is nothing, great or small, that he won't misrepresent in whatever way he feels like.

And the truth of the matter is that had Trump remained out of the official governmental sphere, I wouldn't have a thing to say about it. I'd care, and, yes, I'd nonetheless eschew having anything to do with him, but I wouldn't talk or write about him.

Yes, I suppose, your POV is accurate. But then, everything you have said could be said of every president that has held the office.

The only difference here, is, this president sees fit to publicly tweet his POV.

Every president we have had has had a "lack of integrity." This is true whether you wish to admit it or not. They say one thing, then do another when they hold the office. This guy is just more blatant about it. If you do not admit this, you are being disingenuous and playing politics.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Well, I'm not right wing, but I am a critical thinker, and if you weren't so partisan, I am sure you are smart enough to answer you own questions.

First, you should know that entire government departments and agencies are not replaced when a new president is ushered into office, only the heads of them are. Although bureaucrats are supposed to be "non-partisan" they are, by nature, a bit to the left. Conservatives, or, more appropriately in this regard, small government folks, don't think there is a need for large bureaucratic organizations. Well, if you are a bureaucrat, you probably aren't going to really hold that POV. Due to civil service protections, none of these bureaucrats can be fired simply b/c they #RESIST, the Trump agenda.

When of my favorite sit-com characters is this guy from Parks & Recreation that is a picture in irony, precisely because he is such a character; a libertarian bureaucrat. No such thing.


So that addresses your first point.

To the second point? I think Trump is aware of these civil service protection, and thus, he can only get so much done by issuing executive orders and coming to negotiated compromises with the heads of the various departments on making headway on his agenda.

These tweets are, as I am sure you are aware, mostly for political consumption for his hard core base that keeps him buoyed.

he can only get so much done by issuing executive order

What part of this....

The POTUS does have unilateral authority to declassify whatever the hell he wants to have declassified.

...did you not understand? None of his major legislative agenda items depends on the JFK files remaining classified and none of it depends on appeasing the CIA/FBI.

I agree with you. However, avoiding sharing JFK's fate, or Richard Nixon's fate might just depend on coming to some sort of compromise with these very agencies. You would be wise not to underestimate the man that beat HRC when she had the entire corrupt establishment in her pocket.

Neither underestimation nor overestimation have anything to do with the matter of the JFK file/document release and what I said about it in my OP. Trump and Trump alone asserted/implied they'd all be released, and that is not what happened. He could have said nothing about it , yet he didn't. He could have said some more of them would be released, yet he didn't. He could have let whatever documents got released be released and then remark upon their content, yet he didn't.

I do give him credit for subsequently issuing a few more apt remarks on the matter.

• "It is my hope to get just about everything to public!"
• "After strict consultation with General Kelly, the CIA and other agencies, I will be releasing ALL JFK files other than the names and addresses of any mentioned person who is still living. I am doing this for reasons of full disclosure, transparency and in order to put any and all conspiracy theories to rest." (Source)

Frankly, he should have stopped with just the first of those remarks because it states what he has in mind and does not put him at risk of later being found to have over-promised and under-delivered:

• It is the one that is almost certainly 100% accurate,
• It promises nothing he cannot deliver, or at least be shown plausibly not to have delivered, and
• Unlike the second pair of statements, there won't and cannot be later refuted on a factual basis when the entirety of what remained undisclosed is determined.

Indeed, that first statement is precisely what his initial remarks should about the document release should have entailed, assuming he felt compelled to say anything prior to the actual release. There simply is no good reason for a mature adult, most especially a 70 year-old, of integrity to make any other kind of statement, that is a statement that overstates what they are 100% certain they personally both can and are willing to make happen.

I'll agree with that, but he doesn't tweet for accuracy, or to appease the Democratic base now does he? Accuracy is not something he cares much about.

I suppose when the corporate media is precise we can expect the same from him.

I suppose when the corporate media is precise we can expect the same from him.

Well, no. Having and exhibiting the integrity to be precise, clear, accurate, etc. is something one does on one's own, regardless of what others do. At least, if one is indeed a person of integrity and good character, it is.

People of integrity do not measure themselves against others. Surely your parents attempted to teach you that. "If everyone else did 'X,' it doesn't mean you must or should do 'X.'" Whose parents didn't teach their kids that lesson using words more or less like those in the prior sentence?

he doesn't tweet for accuracy

That is so, and that he has no regard for accuracy is a material part of the problem, the problem being his greatly flawed character, particularly the flaw called "lack of integrity." The man has none. There is nothing, great or small, that he won't misrepresent in whatever way he feels like.

And the truth of the matter is that had Trump remained out of the official governmental sphere, I wouldn't have a thing to say about it. I'd care, and, yes, I'd nonetheless eschew having anything to do with him, but I wouldn't talk or write about him.

Yes, I suppose, your POV is accurate. But then, everything you have said could be said of every president that has held the office.

The only difference here, is, this president sees fit to publicly tweet his POV.

Every president we have had has had a "lack of integrity." This is true whether you wish to admit it or not. They say one thing, then do another when they hold the office. This guy is just more blatant about it. If you do not admit this, you are being disingenuous and playing politics.

This guy is just more blatant about it.

The blatancy with which Trump is a palterer isn't the problem at all; it is merely a trait of his paltering. It is the profligacy with which he is given to paltering, the unlimited scope and scale of things about which he palters and that he is a palterer at all, that are the most major problems. "Most major," because Trump has several major character flaws, and all of them are problematic.

​

Even the character traits that, in people of high character, exist in balance, in fitting proportion, do not so exist in Trump's character. The handful of what would otherwise be positive character traits, in Trump are exaggerated; thereby they devolve into character flaws.

For instance, pluck, plod, zeal and nerve are great traits to have a little bit of, but in Trump they combine with one another and excesses of self-respect, confidence and other traits and become hubris. Another example: self-confidence is something every successful person has, but in Trump it overflows and becomes, in his mind, infallibility. Similarly, self-possession is a good thing in small doses; again, there's no balance to it and it manifests instead as self-centeredness. Many of the traits of good character, Trump hasn't got or has only as much as a toddler. For instance, the man has next to no self control. What I've listed is just the start as goes the traits shown above. Perhaps most importantly, however, Trump doesn't realize his character is derelict to the extent it is....so it goes for folks suffused with hubris.

Normally, by the time one becomes seventy, one has, having had 40-50 years of adulthood, discerned and implemented the requisite balance for one to be widely and generally construed as being of good character. Why Trump hasn't figured it out is anybody's guess.