Trump supporters: How are you punishing the Establishment?

[Correll]

No, that was my point.

We need to change the polices that aren't working.

I'm not sure why they aren't working.

Well here are a few starters.

1. in a global free trade economic system no nation has control of its economy as a result and things like cutting taxes to spur more business dont work because the policy is effectively trying to push up a global economy, not a national economy. That is like trying to blow up an air mattress with a 4 inch hole in it.

2. Some nations will always cheat, so if you dont enforce the treaties with the punitive methods included in them, the treaties will always ruin your nation that does not cheat.

3. Free trade never included a free migration of labor until the late 1980s. But we cant rationally discuss it for all the libtards screaming 'RAYSSIISSSMMM!!!' and neocons echoing it while they count their profits from it.

4. The averaging of labor costs in a global free trading system is political suicide for any advanced democratic system of government.

IF we had had a real debate, say, twenty years ago, it could have been a slower and more nuanced conversation about whether the problem was with the Theory or the Implementation.

Implementation and failure to see the jobless economy that is coming.

BUT, we didn't and that time is past.

We need to reduce the Trade Deficit NOW. I don't care what the cause is.

I certainly don't care about being fair to the fucking chinese.

Nor do I, so why dont our leaders enforce the treaty provisions and impose tariffs on Chinese goods because they manipulate their currency in violation of our trade agreements?

To the last point, as to why?


For the Right, imo, blind ideology.

For the Left, contributions from big business and a knowledge that poor and afraid workers are more likely to want big government to help them than well off and secure workers.

Which is what makes these 'Free Trade Agreements' broken and unworkable for Middle Class Americans.

Agreed.

Which is why Trump is the only reasonable choice.

 

[JimBowie1958]

No, that was my point.

We need to change the polices that aren't working.

I'm not sure why they aren't working.

Well here are a few starters.

1. in a global free trade economic system no nation has control of its economy as a result and things like cutting taxes to spur more business dont work because the policy is effectively trying to push up a global economy, not a national economy. That is like trying to blow up an air mattress with a 4 inch hole in it.

2. Some nations will always cheat, so if you dont enforce the treaties with the punitive methods included in them, the treaties will always ruin your nation that does not cheat.

3. Free trade never included a free migration of labor until the late 1980s. But we cant rationally discuss it for all the libtards screaming 'RAYSSIISSSMMM!!!' and neocons echoing it while they count their profits from it.

4. The averaging of labor costs in a global free trading system is political suicide for any advanced democratic system of government.

IF we had had a real debate, say, twenty years ago, it could have been a slower and more nuanced conversation about whether the problem was with the Theory or the Implementation.

Implementation and failure to see the jobless economy that is coming.

BUT, we didn't and that time is past.

We need to reduce the Trade Deficit NOW. I don't care what the cause is.

I certainly don't care about being fair to the fucking chinese.

Nor do I, so why dont our leaders enforce the treaty provisions and impose tariffs on Chinese goods because they manipulate their currency in violation of our trade agreements?

To the last point, as to why?


For the Right, imo, blind ideology.

For the Left, contributions from big business and a knowledge that poor and afraid workers are more likely to want big government to help them than well off and secure workers.

Which is what makes these 'Free Trade Agreements' broken and unworkable for Middle Class Americans.

Agreed.

Which is why Trump is the only reasonable choice.

Not the ideal, but the best choice provided.

 

[Boss]

They are more interested in punishing their own leaders than winning an election. They are more interested in tearing things down than building things up. So they nominated the guy most offensive to their leaders, a guy who is going to get smoked in the election. Then, they'll blame their leaders for not supporting him enough, even though he's clearly an unqualified buffoon.

I think that about nails it.
.

So you think it more plausible that GOP voters have decided to make Hillary President in an act of futility rather than are sick of the Corporate Crony Network and are trying to overturn it?

Lol, so often the Reality we believe is merely what Reality we prefer, not what the facts dictate.

I think there are millions of GOP voters who don't want this guy.

Now, when you say "corporate crony network", are you talking about people like Ryan and McConnell, or is this another group?

I can never tell who is who with this thing.
.

I had difficulty as well until I started putting two and two together. Conservatives were shut out once again by the same dunderheads who just HAD to support Romney and McCain because the establishment told them those were the candidates who could win. All the while, us telling them we needed a Conservative. They fucking insisted it was going to be McCain and then Romney. Two elections in a row, this same group of voters overwhelmingly threw their support to the establishment pick.... BUT.... Now that things have gone totally tits-up for the establishment, they crawdad over to Trump and again, reject the common sense Conservative. I guarantee you... MOST registered GOP Trump supporters voted for McCain and Romney in their primaries.

Think about it... where are these McCain/Romney supporters? What happened to them all?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Think about it... where are these McCain/Romney supporters? What happened to them all?

They are all in the same room with Bill Kristol and Mittens Romney crying about the primaries.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

lol. I can get you the number if you want it, I can just tell you that by only looking at the votes for Cruz, Rubio, and Kasich you can see that Trump does not have a majority.

Bullshit. Either give the answer or shut the hell up.

lol. you are a funny guy. you make a claim, I prove it wrong, and then you call bullshit on me.

give me about 5 minutes and I'll have the answer for you

Great, a libtard giving an answer. That will make my day, lol.

i used the numbers from Results of the Republican Party presidential primaries, 2016 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

donald trump is 4,566,178 votes away from a majority, assuming no votes come in for any other candidates from here on.

that's more than 4.5million votes away from a majority you claim he already has.

Wikipedia? LOL

 

[Boss]

Think about it... where are these McCain/Romney supporters? What happened to them all?

They are all in the same room with Bill Kristol and Mittens Romney crying about the primaries.

Except, there were MILLIONS of them.. enough to win the nomination twice over more conservative candidates. I think they were in the same room with Kristol and Romney the past two elections... while conservatives tried to warn them they were going to lose.

 

[HenryBHough]

Punish the establishment?

Easy.

Contribute directly to Trump's campaign rather than to the national committee.

 

[ogibillm]

lol. I can get you the number if you want it, I can just tell you that by only looking at the votes for Cruz, Rubio, and Kasich you can see that Trump does not have a majority.

Bullshit. Either give the answer or shut the hell up.

lol. you are a funny guy. you make a claim, I prove it wrong, and then you call bullshit on me.

give me about 5 minutes and I'll have the answer for you

Great, a libtard giving an answer. That will make my day, lol.

i used the numbers from Results of the Republican Party presidential primaries, 2016 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

donald trump is 4,566,178 votes away from a majority, assuming no votes come in for any other candidates from here on.

that's more than 4.5million votes away from a majority you claim he already has.

Wikipedia? LOL

it was easy to find.

 

[Two Thumbs]

there's a difference between being an authoritarian and a boss

The two are not the same at all, I agree. The Donald is both an authoritarian and a boss.

authoritarian

[uh-thawr-i-tair-ee-uh n, uh-thor-]

• Examples
• Word Origin

See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
adjective
1.
favoring complete obedience or subjection to authority as opposed toindividual freedom:
authoritarian principles; authoritarian attitudes.
2.
of or relating to a governmental or political system, principle, orpractice in which individual freedom is held as completely subordinateto the power or authority of the state, centered either in one person ora small group that is not constitutionally accountable to the people.
3.
exercising complete or almost complete control over the will of anotheror of others:
an authoritarian parent.
noun
4.
a person who favors or acts according to authoritarian principles.



that sounds more like obama and hillary.

trump hasn't held a political office, so there's no proof.

unless you can list some freedoms he wants to take.

Hillary supporters could not care less what crimes she has committed. They are into politics for the pay off of winning and that is all.

They are not patriots, they are not honest people looking for the best for our nation. IT is only about getting their best booty haul they can get from the government, end of story. And they will riot and assault people if they think their pay off is threatened.

They are parasites on Americas ass. Time to get the bug spray.

there's a difference between being an authoritarian and a boss

The two are not the same at all, I agree. The Donald is both an authoritarian and a boss.

authoritarian

[uh-thawr-i-tair-ee-uh n, uh-thor-]

• Examples
• Word Origin

See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
adjective
1.
favoring complete obedience or subjection to authority as opposed toindividual freedom:
authoritarian principles; authoritarian attitudes.
2.
of or relating to a governmental or political system, principle, orpractice in which individual freedom is held as completely subordinateto the power or authority of the state, centered either in one person ora small group that is not constitutionally accountable to the people.
3.
exercising complete or almost complete control over the will of anotheror of others:
an authoritarian parent.
noun
4.
a person who favors or acts according to authoritarian principles.



that sounds more like obama and hillary.

trump hasn't held a political office, so there's no proof.

unless you can list some freedoms he wants to take.

Hillary supporters could not care less what crimes she has committed. They are into politics for the pay off of winning and that is all.

They are not patriots, they are not honest people looking for the best for our nation. IT is only about getting their best booty they can get fromt he government, end of story.

They are parasites on Americas ass. Time to get the bug spray.

The democrats are just doing what they do, following the establishment lead. They should change from jackasses to lemmings.

was gunna say 'or to a sheep.' but then I thought about it. Leftist actually would kill themselves if convinced it was in their best interest.

 

[Two Thumbs]

trump hasn't held a political office, so there's no proof.

Only in the way he's run his enterprises.

utter and complete non-sense.

now you're just making shit up

 

[Kondor3]

To get a little more specific here (okay, and to bump the thread, guilty), as I understand it the reason you're mad at the establishment is that you would elect people who say they're conservative, but then don't act as conservative as you want them to when they're in office. Okay, I do get that.

So it appears to be about frustration over elected Republican officials not being conservative enough.

So in response, you run a guy who would certainly be considered a RINO if it were not for his (insert adjective here, I'm out of them) behavior.

That's the disconnect that I'm asking about.
.

This has been the season of the Populist Rebellion...

On BOTH sides of the aisle...

On the Left, the Populist Rebels have rallied around Bernie Sanders...

On the Right, the Populist Rebels have rallied around Donald Trump...

With respect to the Pubs...

This Populist Rebellion has NEVER been about Conservatism...

It's been about flushing Illegal Aliens and barring further immigration from Muslim-dominated countries and forcing manufacturing jobs back on-shore...

A candidate who promises to do those things could be to the Left of Karl Marx and it wouldn't matter a damn...

It's NOT about Conservatism, which is a failing and fading and lackluster and dying concept on the American political stage...

It's about executing the Will of the People, and, if need be, hijacking an existing party shell, under which that Will can be brought to fruition...

 

[Mac1958]

This Populist Rebellion has NEVER been about Conservatism...It's been about flushing Illegal Aliens and barring further immigration from Muslim-dominated countries and forcing manufacturing jobs back on-shore...

A candidate who promises to do those things could be to the Left of Karl Marx and it wouldn't matter a damn...It's NOT about Conservatism, which is a failing and dying concept on the American political stage...It's about executing the Will of the People...

Whoa, well put.

Well this goes back, then, to an argument I made a few months ago: Trump supporters are no more traditional Republicans/conservatives than he is -- "A candidate who promises to do those things could be to the Left of Karl Marx and it wouldn't matter a damn" -- and what they have done is take over a major party because they know they don't have the national infrastructure to start one from scratch. That would take too long.

It's as if a major American political party has been stolen. This, after decades of hearing about "conservative values".

There are a couple of other issues as well: First, whether "the will of the people" really is still to have strong borders and to bring back manufacturing. Frankly, I'm not so sure on the first one, and you can see that in here. There appears to be a growing amount of people who feel America deserves some payback.

And second, while I can certainly understand frustration with politicians, this is one horrible, horrible messenger. He is so bad, in fact, that the movement itself is in danger of being damaged and marginalized by his behaviors.
.

 

[Freewill]

For some like me, it is a vote against Hillary. I don't want WWIII.

WWIII is just around the corner, should the Queen of Chaos win.

The Queen of Chaos and the Threat of World War III
"War creates chaos, and Hillary Clinton has been an eager advocate of every U.S. aggressive war in the last quarter of a century. These wars have devastated whole countries and caused an unmanageable refugee crisis. Chaos is all there is to show for Hillary’s vaunted “foreign policy experience”.

The President of the United States is not a purely symbolic position. It involves crucial decision-making powers. Hillary Clinton has demonstrated dangerously poor judgment in fateful questions of war and peace. That should disqualify her.

If you think U.S. policy couldn’t be more pro-Israel than it is now, just wait until you see Hillary in the White House. After Haim Saban pledged to spend “as much as necessary” to make her President, Hillary Clinton has pledged to invite Netanyahu to the While House in her first month as President,

Simple: whenever Obama hesitated, Hillary did not. She urged war in Libya, a no-fly zone in Syria, and from all she says, would have been urging stronger action against Russia when her former spokeswoman Victoria Nuland was leading the anti-Russian coup in Kiev. Her chuckling over the bestial murder of Gaddafi shows an absence of any human feeling for her adversaries. She dismisses them as subhuman...
The Queen of Chaos - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com

The Queen of Chaos...but libs and Ds don't know the truth. If only they could read and comprehend...

It is interseting. Mrs. Tuzla clinton's experiences should be the one thing that qualifies her for Potus. But in reality, if one examines that experience it is exactly what should disqualifiy her.

But I am thinking that the status quo will win in the end.

 

[candycorn]

The “movement” has claimed its first victim (nearly a year after it begun). Conservative TEA Party Asshat from the NC-2nd (Ellmers) has lost her seat. Good job boys. BTW…giggle…she was the first member of Congress endorse….wait for it….DONALD J. TRUMP.

Someday you guys may run out of bullets or toes.

You may recall her asking her male colleagues to “bring it down to a woman’s level”.

 

[Kondor3]

The “movement” has claimed its first victim (nearly a year after it begun). Conservative TEA Party Asshat from the NC-2nd (Ellmers) has lost her seat. Good job boys. BTW…giggle…she was the first member of Congress endorse….wait for it….DONALD J. TRUMP.

Someday you guys may run out of bullets or toes.

You may recall her asking her male colleagues to “bring it down to a woman’s level”.

Yes, the Liberal elements within the Lamestream Media are certainly trying to portray that loss as attributable to Attila the Hun...

The question is: "Did the link to Trump actually and truly impact negatively and substantively to this candidate's loss?"

I'm not sure how one measures that.

And I"m sure-as-hell not drinking the Liberal Media Kool-Aid on the subject; at least, not before it's been taste-tested...

I think it's entirely possible that Trump will have a negative and substantive impact upon 'down-ballot' candidates... nolo contendere.

But, before Loony Liberal Media start claiming Victory in that context, I think we need better benchmarks and criteria than just taking their word for it.

 

[JoeB131]

To the last point, as to why?


For the Right, imo, blind ideology.

For the Left, contributions from big business and a knowledge that poor and afraid workers are more likely to want big government to help them than well off and secure workers.

How is getting the government to protect them from foreign competition not the government helping them?

 

[JoeB131]

I had difficulty as well until I started putting two and two together. Conservatives were shut out once again by the same dunderheads who just HAD to support Romney and McCain because the establishment told them those were the candidates who could win. All the while, us telling them we needed a Conservative. They fucking insisted it was going to be McCain and then Romney. Two elections in a row, this same group of voters overwhelmingly threw their support to the establishment pick.... BUT.... Now that things have gone totally tits-up for the establishment, they crawdad over to Trump and again, reject the common sense Conservative. I guarantee you... MOST registered GOP Trump supporters voted for McCain and Romney in their primaries.

Here's the problem with this silly argument.

How was Romney "not" a conservative. 2012 Romney toed the line on every bit of Conservative Crazy you put out there. He was plenty conservative.

The real problem you guys had in 2012 was the Mitt Romney thought he was wearing magic underwear,and he was STILL less crazy than the other guys running.

The establishment tried its best to breathe life into Lying' Ted. Cruz should have challenged Trump's nonsense early on. He didn't. INstead he waited for Trump to implode so he could sweep up the malcontents he was building. Except, of course, he didn't.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Trump supporters: How are you punishing the Establishment?"

By keeping the WH in Democratic hands.

 

[candycorn]

The “movement” has claimed its first victim (nearly a year after it begun). Conservative TEA Party Asshat from the NC-2nd (Ellmers) has lost her seat. Good job boys. BTW…giggle…she was the first member of Congress endorse….wait for it….DONALD J. TRUMP.

Someday you guys may run out of bullets or toes.

You may recall her asking her male colleagues to “bring it down to a woman’s level”.

Yes, the Liberal elements within the Lamestream Media are certainly trying to portray that loss as attributable to Attila the Hun…

I guess you are a consumer of the “lame stream” media since you know what they are reporting? Anyway, I’m not sure it was that. I heard this dumbass on Bob Edwards (maybe it was Tim Farley on POTUS XM come to think of it) a few times and she was comical in her understanding of mathematics. I didn’t even know she supported Trump until I read that tonight.

Its good to see you guys have claimed your first “career politician” though. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Kondor3]

...I guess you are a consumer of the “lame stream” media since you know what they are reporting?...

Indeed. I listen to it all. I weight it all. On both sides. And I judge for myself, which is Real and which is Contrived. Don't you?

...Anyway, I’m not sure it was that. I heard this dumbass on Bob Edwards (maybe it was Tim Farley on POTUS XM come to think of it) a few times and she was comical in her understanding of mathematics. I didn’t even know she supported Trump until I read that tonight...

Lib Talk Radio. Con Talk Radio. Same-same. Both are staffed by partisan hacks. serving-up partisan Kool Aid, fed and flavored by their branch of the Lamestream Media.

...Its good to see you guys have claimed your first “career politician” though. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You mean, like Bernie has been trying to do for so many months? You're not laughing about that schism, and how to heal it, are you? Bwaaahahaha indeed.