Trump, Trump supporters, Socialism, and the Economy

[Zorro!]

I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.

Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.

While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.

The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system...

Hold on, let's check this:

Well, well, well! It looks like Federal receipts went UP not down and that Fed total assets went DOWN not up!

... Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.

So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.

Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?

In this Great Nation we don't have a small group of elitists with luxury beliefs controlling everything so that they can signal virtue their status to other members of their cliche.

Here WE THE PEOPLE rule with those we select to represent us, merely our "trusted servants" and believe me, we will never entrust these crooks with the vast power you suggest.

Yes, of course receipts go up in a growing economy. While 2.1% growth is a disappointment considering what has been thrown at the economy, it's still going to increase receipts.

And the Fed balance sheet has already increased by more than $100 billion, as I have documented, several times. In fact, another chart provided by a Trumpster shows it.

I just wish you guys would acknowledge the "socialism" that has played a role in this, but it doesn't look like you know about it.

Not my problem.
.

Government deficit is not socialism. Tax cuts are the opposite of socialism.

Having a modern monetary system is not really socialism either. But your story does not even add up here so...

Aggressive spending increases and aggressive Fed intervention are.

But I know, in your mind, that didn't happen.
.

Not "in my mind" did the "massive Fed Intervention" not occur, in the REAL WORLD the Fed has measurably REMOVED, not added, stimulus since Trump took over.

Do you understand that the Fed selling assets is the OPPOSITE of Fed Intervention, and dampening rather than stimulatory?

 

[Mac1958]

I'm just stating facts. You guys want to give Trump credit for the economy, but play games with how it happened.

I know the game. Both ends play it.
.

There is no end to the excuses you can and will generate. As you said in the other thread, it is because you have a bias against Trump. We get it... own it.

Bottom line, Trump is doing great with the economy.

Great.
.

Mac, let's recall your last take...

At this moment, this Presidency is not going well

Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps you are wrong?

You're welcome to show me where I was wrong.

What predictions did I make?
.

Are you kidding?

"Could the economy turn back up? Yes, definitely, hopefully, but some kind of GOOD trade deal with China is now pretty much mandatory for that to happen. The Courts are the Courts. They'll probably be able to gather enough Lego™ blocks to build enough of a wall somewhere to keep talk radio and the base happy. International Relations? Race Relations? Pffffft. Who cares. Fake news."

Now you say the economy is good... so where is the trade deal?

The economy remains stuck at 2.1%. Don't you know that? That's pretty good, but not what you guys are obediently claiming. And after all the Fed intervention you claim isn't happening.

The trade deal is mostly just laying there, at least so far.

You make things up in your mind that simply aren't there. I can't help you. I don't know how to deal with that.

I think my posts are a little too important to you, and that this is getting a little creepy.

Please, feel free free to think whatever you want of me. I don't care. Sorry.
.

 

[Norman]

There is no end to the excuses you can and will generate. As you said in the other thread, it is because you have a bias against Trump. We get it... own it.

Bottom line, Trump is doing great with the economy.

Great.
.

Mac, let's recall your last take...

At this moment, this Presidency is not going well

Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps you are wrong?

You're welcome to show me where I was wrong.

What predictions did I make?
.

Are you kidding?

"Could the economy turn back up? Yes, definitely, hopefully, but some kind of GOOD trade deal with China is now pretty much mandatory for that to happen. The Courts are the Courts. They'll probably be able to gather enough Lego™ blocks to build enough of a wall somewhere to keep talk radio and the base happy. International Relations? Race Relations? Pffffft. Who cares. Fake news."

Now you say the economy is good... so where is the trade deal?

The economy remains stuck at 2.1%. Don't you know that? That's pretty good, but not what you guys are obediently claiming. And after all the Fed intervention you claim isn't happening.

The trade deal is mostly just laying there, at least so far.

You make things up in your mind that simply aren't there. I can't help you. I don't know how to deal with that.

I think my posts are a little too important to you, and that this is getting a little creepy.

Please, feel free free to think whatever you want of me. I don't care. Sorry.
.

I am not making stuff up, I am simply REPEATING what you have said. Here is from the OP

"Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff."

And now you post something completely different. Try to remain consistent in your beliefs.

The problem is that you hate Trump and can not admit that that is the primary fuel behind your message. Most likely the reason you hate Trump has nothing to do with the economy.

 

[Mac1958]

I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.

Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.

While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.

The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system...

Hold on, let's check this:

Well, well, well! It looks like Federal receipts went UP not down and that Fed total assets went DOWN not up!

... Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.

So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.

Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?

In this Great Nation we don't have a small group of elitists with luxury beliefs controlling everything so that they can signal virtue their status to other members of their cliche.

Here WE THE PEOPLE rule with those we select to represent us, merely our "trusted servants" and believe me, we will never entrust these crooks with the vast power you suggest.

Yes, of course receipts go up in a growing economy. While 2.1% growth is a disappointment considering what has been thrown at the economy, it's still going to increase receipts.

And the Fed balance sheet has already increased by more than $100 billion, as I have documented, several times. In fact, another chart provided by a Trumpster shows it.

I just wish you guys would acknowledge the "socialism" that has played a role in this, but it doesn't look like you know about it.

Not my problem.
.

Government deficit is not socialism. Tax cuts are the opposite of socialism.

Having a modern monetary system is not really socialism either. But your story does not even add up here so...

Aggressive spending increases and aggressive Fed intervention are.

But I know, in your mind, that didn't happen.
.

Not "in my mind" did the "massive Fed Intervention" not occur, in the REAL WORLD the Fed has measurably REMOVED, not added, stimulus since Trump took over.

Do you understand that the Fed selling assets is the OPPOSITE of Fed Intervention, and dampening rather than stimulatory?

Believe whatever you're told to believe. This is boring.

And whatever you do, please don't read these;

Despite St. Louis Branch Warnings, New York Fed Pumps $108 Billion Into US Economy - Bitcoin News
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/23/fed-repo-overnight-operations-level-to-increase-to-120-billion.html
https://www.realclearmarkets.com/ar...at_he_wants_but_it_quacks_like_qe_103948.html
The Fed's $4 trillion experiment is growing - CNN
Fed Will Purchase Treasury Bills at Least Into Second Quarter of 2020
The Fed Has Quietly Started QE4
US Federal Reserve starts “quantitative easing forever”
Fed Admits Failure of ‘Plan A’ to Control Money Market Rates, Shifts Back to Repos (which was ‘Plan A’ till 2008)
Whether You Call It QE or Not the Fed Is Monetizing the US Debt
Fed's QE4 is pushing stocks higher
A Major Bank Admits QE4 Has Started, And That Stocks Are Rising Because Of The Fed's Soaring Balance Sheet
Gold Falls Despite Fed’s QE4 and Reckless Policies - ZIRP Now Tied To Unemployment - GoldCore News
FED PRESSED THE NUKE BUTTON: QE4 UNDERWAY!
.

 

[Zorro!]

I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.

Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.

While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.

The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system...

Hold on, let's check this:

Well, well, well! It looks like Federal receipts went UP not down and that Fed total assets went DOWN not up!

... Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.

So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.

Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?

In this Great Nation we don't have a small group of elitists with luxury beliefs controlling everything so that they can signal virtue their status to other members of their cliche.

Here WE THE PEOPLE rule with those we select to represent us, merely our "trusted servants" and believe me, we will never entrust these crooks with the vast power you suggest.

Yes, of course receipts go up in a growing economy. While 2.1% growth is a disappointment considering what has been thrown at the economy, it's still going to increase receipts.

And the Fed balance sheet has already increased by more than $100 billion, as I have documented, several times. In fact, another chart provided by a Trumpster shows it.

I just wish you guys would acknowledge the "socialism" that has played a role in this, but it doesn't look like you know about it.

Not my problem.
.

Government deficit is not socialism. Tax cuts are the opposite of socialism.

Having a modern monetary system is not really socialism either. But your story does not even add up here so...

Aggressive spending increases and aggressive Fed intervention are.

But I know, in your mind, that didn't happen.
.

I do have a problem with the spending. What I don't have is TDS. Let's be honest, you would have found a other reason for why Trump's economy is not REALLY thriving.

Republicans take the house in 2020 and perhaps we can finally address the spending.

And this is another area where they are misleading.

The debt as a percentage of GDP ramped up sharply ending in 2016 and has been quite stable since Trump took over.

Spending has been high since Nancy The Ripper Took the Gavel, but, that's likely to be corrected in the upcoming election.

 

[Zorro!]

Hold on, let's check this:

Well, well, well! It looks like Federal receipts went UP not down and that Fed total assets went DOWN not up!
In this Great Nation we don't have a small group of elitists with luxury beliefs controlling everything so that they can signal virtue their status to other members of their cliche.

Here WE THE PEOPLE rule with those we select to represent us, merely our "trusted servants" and believe me, we will never entrust these crooks with the vast power you suggest.

Yes, of course receipts go up in a growing economy. While 2.1% growth is a disappointment considering what has been thrown at the economy, it's still going to increase receipts.

And the Fed balance sheet has already increased by more than $100 billion, as I have documented, several times. In fact, another chart provided by a Trumpster shows it.

I just wish you guys would acknowledge the "socialism" that has played a role in this, but it doesn't look like you know about it.

Not my problem.
.

Government deficit is not socialism. Tax cuts are the opposite of socialism.

Having a modern monetary system is not really socialism either. But your story does not even add up here so...

Aggressive spending increases and aggressive Fed intervention are.

But I know, in your mind, that didn't happen.
.

I do have a problem with the spending. What I don't have is TDS. Let's be honest, you would have found a other reason for why Trump's economy is not REALLY thriving.

Republicans take the house in 2020 and perhaps we can finally address the spending.

I'm just stating facts. You guys want to give Trump credit for the economy, but play games with how it happened.

I know the game. Both ends play it.
.

But you aren't "just stating facts". Your "facts" are getting blown out of the water and then you saying that it's all just games. That's a fighting retreat not a refutation.

 

[Zorro!]

I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.

Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.

While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.

The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system...

Hold on, let's check this:

Well, well, well! It looks like Federal receipts went UP not down and that Fed total assets went DOWN not up!

... Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.

So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.

Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?

In this Great Nation we don't have a small group of elitists with luxury beliefs controlling everything so that they can signal virtue their status to other members of their cliche.

Here WE THE PEOPLE rule with those we select to represent us, merely our "trusted servants" and believe me, we will never entrust these crooks with the vast power you suggest.

Yes, of course receipts go up in a growing economy...

Is that why they went DOWN in 2016 despite the higher tax rates?

... And the Fed balance sheet has already increased by more than $100 billion, as I have documented, several times...

Not compared to where it was at the end of 2016 it hasn't.

... I just wish you guys would acknowledge the "socialism" that has played a role in this, but it doesn't look like you know about it...

I'm amazed at your guy's attempts at validation. First you folks grandly certainly and repeatedly predicted that the Trump Economy would be an immediate and enduring disaster. And now you are trying to grab credit for it. I guess that's as sincere a compliment as well get from you folks.

... Not my problem... .

And you skipped over the answer to the question asked that I posted for you:

In this Great Nation we don't have a small group of elitists with luxury beliefs controlling everything so that they can signal virtue their status to other members of their cliche.​

Here WE THE PEOPLE rule with those we select to represent us, merely our "trusted servants" and believe me, we will never entrust those crooks with the vast power you advocate.​

Now, why would you skip over that, when it's the answer to the question asked?

Please see the prior post, above.
.

I did and you did not deal with the answer to your question:

In this Great Nation we don't have a small group of elitists with luxury beliefs controlling everything so that they can signal virtue their status to other members of their cliche.​

Here WE THE PEOPLE rule with those we select to represent us, merely our "trusted servants" and believe me, we will never entrust those crooks with the vast power you advocate.​

Now, why would you ask a question, refuse to address the answer, and then claim you had already answered it?

 

[Zorro!]

Hold on, let's check this:

Well, well, well! It looks like Federal receipts went UP not down and that Fed total assets went DOWN not up!
In this Great Nation we don't have a small group of elitists with luxury beliefs controlling everything so that they can signal virtue their status to other members of their cliche.

Here WE THE PEOPLE rule with those we select to represent us, merely our "trusted servants" and believe me, we will never entrust these crooks with the vast power you suggest.

Yes, of course receipts go up in a growing economy. While 2.1% growth is a disappointment considering what has been thrown at the economy, it's still going to increase receipts.

And the Fed balance sheet has already increased by more than $100 billion, as I have documented, several times. In fact, another chart provided by a Trumpster shows it.

I just wish you guys would acknowledge the "socialism" that has played a role in this, but it doesn't look like you know about it.

Not my problem.
.

Government deficit is not socialism. Tax cuts are the opposite of socialism.

Having a modern monetary system is not really socialism either. But your story does not even add up here so...

Aggressive spending increases and aggressive Fed intervention are.

But I know, in your mind, that didn't happen.
.

Not "in my mind" did the "massive Fed Intervention" not occur, in the REAL WORLD the Fed has measurably REMOVED, not added, stimulus since Trump took over.

Do you understand that the Fed selling assets is the OPPOSITE of Fed Intervention, and dampening rather than stimulatory?

Believe whatever you're told to believe. This is boring.

And whatever you do, please don't read these;

Despite St. Louis Branch Warnings, New York Fed Pumps $108 Billion Into US Economy - Bitcoin News
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/23/fed-repo-overnight-operations-level-to-increase-to-120-billion.html
https://www.realclearmarkets.com/ar...at_he_wants_but_it_quacks_like_qe_103948.html
The Fed's $4 trillion experiment is growing - CNN
Fed Will Purchase Treasury Bills at Least Into Second Quarter of 2020
The Fed Has Quietly Started QE4
US Federal Reserve starts “quantitative easing forever”
Fed Admits Failure of ‘Plan A’ to Control Money Market Rates, Shifts Back to Repos (which was ‘Plan A’ till 2008)
Whether You Call It QE or Not the Fed Is Monetizing the US Debt
Fed's QE4 is pushing stocks higher
A Major Bank Admits QE4 Has Started, And That Stocks Are Rising Because Of The Fed's Soaring Balance Sheet
Gold Falls Despite Fed’s QE4 and Reckless Policies - ZIRP Now Tied To Unemployment - GoldCore News
FED PRESSED THE NUKE BUTTON: QE4 UNDERWAY!
.

You have the ability to check these things yourself. You may be parrotting your claim from sensational headlines, but that doesn't make them fact. You have accurate national accounting at your finger tips. You have no excuse for not looking this up yourself especially when accurate information has been repeatedly supplied to you this morning.

The Fed is not MORE engaged since Trump took over, the Fed is LESS engaged. This is an indisputable, widely available fact.

You do know that news providers are paid for clicks and eyeballs? And they packaged their daily releases to drive that, which is fine, but double check them.

Double Checking is Easy and Fun!​

 

[edthecynic]

Spending has been high since Nancy The Ripper Took the Gavel, but, that's likely to be corrected in the upcoming election.

Actually your own graph only shows spending increasing after Trump the Dump taking over in 2017. The Great Nancy Pelosi didn't take over until 2019, not shown on your chart.
Proving the Right are too STUPID to even read their OWN charts!!!!!

 

[edthecynic]

Double Checking is Easy and Fun!

Oh the IRONY!!!!!

 

[Zorro!]

There is no end to the excuses you can and will generate. As you said in the other thread, it is because you have a bias against Trump. We get it... own it.

Bottom line, Trump is doing great with the economy.

Great.
.

Mac, let's recall your last take...

At this moment, this Presidency is not going well

Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps you are wrong?

You're welcome to show me where I was wrong.

What predictions did I make?
.

Are you kidding?

"Could the economy turn back up? Yes, definitely, hopefully, but some kind of GOOD trade deal with China is now pretty much mandatory for that to happen. The Courts are the Courts. They'll probably be able to gather enough Lego™ blocks to build enough of a wall somewhere to keep talk radio and the base happy. International Relations? Race Relations? Pffffft. Who cares. Fake news."

Now you say the economy is good... so where is the trade deal?

The economy remains stuck at 2.1%. Don't you know that? ...

Fake News - Simply not True. Obama's final GDP was 1.6%. Since then, Trump has put up:

2017 - 2.4
2018 - 2.9
2019 - 2.3

Trump's worst year beats Obama, 5 out of 8 times.

... That's pretty good...

It's certainly an improvement.

... And after all the Fed intervention you claim isn't happening....

We have correctly told you, over and over again, that the Fed is in a LESS accommodation stance than they were when Obama's second term ended and Trump took over.

These aren't "our opinion" these are hard world, easily verified empirical facts.

Start with the Fed Interest Rate:

On a percentage basis, the Fed Interest rate is much higher since Trump took over than it was when Obama ended his Presidency. The Fed Interest rates are HIGHER, not lower than when Trump took office.

Next look at their balance sheet. These are average annual numbers. The Fed has rolled off a lot of the assets they purchased while Obama was President in order to stimulate the economy. Fed Buying is stimulative, Fed Sales drain money from the economy and dampen economic growth.

... The trade deal is mostly just laying there, at least so far....

It was passed and signed into law!

United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement | United States Trade Representative

China is no longer our #1 trading partner, MEXICO is, and Mexico is securing our border against human trafficking and has resumed using their Marines against Drug Cartels in order to help control the flow of illegal drugs over our Southern Border. That Trump using his head, using our trade surplus to Put America First.

China isn't even our #2 trading partner, CANADA is. How smart is that? Instead of supply chains running to the other-side of the world, they now run to our next door neighbor. Trudeau may be a weenie, but hey, we love the Canadians, they gave us Ted Cruz!

So now instead of our trade surplus fueling a military buildup of a competitor, it's helping to secure our Southern Border and bless Ted Cruz' fellow countrymen.

See how smart Trump is? It's not that smart, it's obvious, it should have been this way for the last 30 years. Trump's only doing what should have been done all along, but hey, he's done it, I'll give him that.

... You make things up in your mind that simply aren't there. I can't help you. I don't know how to deal with that...

If you want a world view that is not grounded in reality, you are more than welcome to. But, reread your opening post. You asked for an explanation, solidly grounded in facts, and that is what I have given you.

 

[edthecynic]

China is no longer our #1 trading partner, MEXICO is

And they did that under the old NAFTA, you left that part out!

 

[Mac1958]

Great.
.

Mac, let's recall your last take...

At this moment, this Presidency is not going well

Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps you are wrong?

You're welcome to show me where I was wrong.

What predictions did I make?
.

Are you kidding?

"Could the economy turn back up? Yes, definitely, hopefully, but some kind of GOOD trade deal with China is now pretty much mandatory for that to happen. The Courts are the Courts. They'll probably be able to gather enough Lego™ blocks to build enough of a wall somewhere to keep talk radio and the base happy. International Relations? Race Relations? Pffffft. Who cares. Fake news."

Now you say the economy is good... so where is the trade deal?

The economy remains stuck at 2.1%. Don't you know that? ...

Fake News - Simply not True. Obama's final GDP was 1.6%. Since then, Trump has put up:

2017 - 2.4
2018 - 2.9
2019 - 2.3

Trump's worst year beats Obama, 5 out of 8 times.

... That's pretty good...

It's certainly an improvement.

... And after all the Fed intervention you claim isn't happening....

We have correctly told you, over and over again, that the Fed is in a LESS accommodation stance than they were when Obama's second term ended and Trump took over.

These aren't "our opinion" these are hard world, easily verified empirical facts.

Start with the Fed Interest Rate:

On a percentage basis, the Fed Interest rate is much higher since Trump took over than it was when Obama ended his Presidency. The Fed Interest rates are HIGHER, not lower than when Trump took office.

Next look at their balance sheet. These are average annual numbers. The Fed has rolled off a lot of the assets they purchased while Obama was President in order to stimulate the economy. Fed Buying is stimulative, Fed Sales drain money from the economy and dampen economic growth.

... The trade deal is mostly just laying there, at least so far....

It was passed and signed into law!

United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement | United States Trade Representative

China is no longer our #1 trading partner, MEXICO is, and Mexico is securing our border against human trafficking and has resumed using their Marines against Drug Cartels in order to help control the flow of illegal drugs over our Southern Border. That Trump using his head, using our trade surplus to Put America First.

China isn't even our #2 trading partner, CANADA is. How smart is that? Instead of supply chains running to the other-side of the world, they now run to our next door neighbor. Trudeau may be a weenie, but hey, we love the Canadians, they gave us Ted Cruz!

So now instead of our trade surplus fueling a military buildup of a competitor, it's helping to secure our Southern Border and bless Ted Cruz' fellow countrymen.

See how smart Trump is? It's not that smart, it's obvious, it should have been this way for the last 30 years. Trump's only doing what should have been done all along, but hey, he's done it, I'll give him that.

... You make things up in your mind that simply aren't there. I can't help you. I don't know how to deal with that...

If you want a world view that is not grounded in reality, you are more than welcome to. But, reread your opening post. You asked for an explanation, solidly grounded in facts, and that is what I have given you.

You're dishonestly arguing against things I'm not saying. The facts are as follows:

1. GDP remains at 2.1%.

2. The New York Fed has seen need to inject hundreds of billions into the system (The Fed is sharply increasing the amount of help it is providing to the financial system, New York Fed Adds $60.7 Billion to Financial Markets)

3. Barack Obama has absolutely N O T H I N G to do with any points I have made. Nothing.

This is tedious. You are tedious. Your clumsily one-sided partisan crap is irrelevant to me. Sorry. Bye bye now.
.

 

[Zorro!]

Mac, let's recall your last take...

At this moment, this Presidency is not going well

Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps you are wrong?

You're welcome to show me where I was wrong.

What predictions did I make?
.

Are you kidding?

"Could the economy turn back up? Yes, definitely, hopefully, but some kind of GOOD trade deal with China is now pretty much mandatory for that to happen. The Courts are the Courts. They'll probably be able to gather enough Lego™ blocks to build enough of a wall somewhere to keep talk radio and the base happy. International Relations? Race Relations? Pffffft. Who cares. Fake news."

Now you say the economy is good... so where is the trade deal?

The economy remains stuck at 2.1%. Don't you know that? ...

Fake News - Simply not True. Obama's final GDP was 1.6%. Since then, Trump has put up:

2017 - 2.4
2018 - 2.9
2019 - 2.3

Trump's worst year beats Obama, 5 out of 8 times.

... That's pretty good...

It's certainly an improvement.

... And after all the Fed intervention you claim isn't happening....

We have correctly told you, over and over again, that the Fed is in a LESS accommodation stance than they were when Obama's second term ended and Trump took over.

These aren't "our opinion" these are hard world, easily verified empirical facts.

Start with the Fed Interest Rate:

On a percentage basis, the Fed Interest rate is much higher since Trump took over than it was when Obama ended his Presidency. The Fed Interest rates are HIGHER, not lower than when Trump took office.

Next look at their balance sheet. These are average annual numbers. The Fed has rolled off a lot of the assets they purchased while Obama was President in order to stimulate the economy. Fed Buying is stimulative, Fed Sales drain money from the economy and dampen economic growth.

... The trade deal is mostly just laying there, at least so far....

It was passed and signed into law!

United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement | United States Trade Representative

China is no longer our #1 trading partner, MEXICO is, and Mexico is securing our border against human trafficking and has resumed using their Marines against Drug Cartels in order to help control the flow of illegal drugs over our Southern Border. That Trump using his head, using our trade surplus to Put America First.

China isn't even our #2 trading partner, CANADA is. How smart is that? Instead of supply chains running to the other-side of the world, they now run to our next door neighbor. Trudeau may be a weenie, but hey, we love the Canadians, they gave us Ted Cruz!

So now instead of our trade surplus fueling a military buildup of a competitor, it's helping to secure our Southern Border and bless Ted Cruz' fellow countrymen.

See how smart Trump is? It's not that smart, it's obvious, it should have been this way for the last 30 years. Trump's only doing what should have been done all along, but hey, he's done it, I'll give him that.

... You make things up in your mind that simply aren't there. I can't help you. I don't know how to deal with that...

If you want a world view that is not grounded in reality, you are more than welcome to. But, reread your opening post. You asked for an explanation, solidly grounded in facts, and that is what I have given you.

You're dishonestly arguing against things I'm not saying. The facts are as follows:

1. GDP remains at 2.1%.

You seem to be obsessed with me. My posts are way too important to you. This is getting weird.

I merely pointed out that Trump's worst year was 2.3% and that his worst year beats Obama's best years 5 of 8 times.

... 2. The New York Fed has seen need to inject hundreds of billions into the system (The Fed is sharply increasing the amount of help it is providing to the financial system, New York Fed Adds $60.7 Billion to Financial Markets)...

The Fed, on balance, has shrunk it's balance sheet during the Trump era, by Ten Times that, about $600B

 

[Mac-7]

I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.

Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.

While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.

The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.

Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.

So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.

Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?
.

Socialism?

paying people not to work?

take money from john who earned it and giving to fred who is too lazy to work?

do you really have to ask?

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Cutting the Federal government in 1/2 and stop paying welfare to shitfucks who sit on the lazy liberal butts. It isnt a revenue problem, it is a government spending problem.

Well, Trump sure as hell is not going to do that.

This year we are taking in the largest tax revenues ever. Liberal policies are spending 1 trillion more. 1 trillion dollars gets paid to the War on Poverty. Stop paying for that endless war, the budget is balanced.

It is not just Liberal policies, both parties are big spending parties, neither have any desire to cut spending, the only disagreement is where the money should be spent.

Have to take back the house, and when Nan from San Fransicko gives up the gavel, you will see spending cuts...

Right. More made up BS 'scenarios' from a clueless member of the cult.

 

[The Purge]

Who controls spending? The president, in order to get some of the things he wants must give Congress some things they want, before he signs it and makes it law....or has that changed over the last few decades?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Who controls spending? The president, in order to get some of the things he wants must give Congress some things they want, before he signs it and makes it law....or has that changed over the last few decades?

Spending is controlled by a combination of Congress and the president.

A president that claims to want to cut spending should not send the largest budget request in the countries history as a starting point.

 

[Zorro!]

I know this thread will degenerate quickly into platitudes, talking points and insults, but what the hell.

Right now the economy is in good shape. Friday's employment & hiring figures were freakin' outstanding to say the least, and there's a good chance we'll keep purring along for the foreseeable future. And that's not something you can always say. So, that's some pretty damn good stuff.

While this is happening, Trump and his supporters are predictably crowing and very proud. Yeah, I can see that, and it's certainly amplified by the current partisan political environment. Yeah, I get that too.

The three largest factors -- and even the slightest internet research will confirm this -- driving this expansion are (1) the aggressive tax cuts, (2) the aggressive increase in government spending, and (3) the Fed pouring HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS into markets to grease the system.

Then, on top of that will be the increase in confidence and positivity with both consumers and businesses. Icing on the cake, good stuff, let's go.

So perhaps Trump supporters can explain why they're so against socialism. Two of the largest three contributing stimulative factors -- massive government spending and the Fed's actions -- would have been considered terrible just four years ago, yet the attacks on socialism (whatever the hell the definition is that the person is using) are only escalating.

Can someone explain this, reasonably, civilly, intelligently, and with original, independent thought?
.

Socialism always fails because governments cannot control economies without controlling people. The idea that it can long coexist with democracy is farcical. It is an anathema to lovers of liberty.

YOU CAN’T FOOL ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME: Public credits Trump more than Obama for booming economy.

A solid majority said that Trump “deserves" the credit for the "improvement in the state of the economy in the past few years.”

Now that the Economy is booming, the failed Obama, after blaming both his terms on Bush is trying to take Credit for Trump's amazing Boom.

Trump responded: “Did you hear the latest con job? President Obama is now trying to take credit for the Economic Boom taking place under the Trump Administration. He had the WEAKEST recovery since the Great Depression, despite Zero Fed Rate & MASSIVE quantitative easing. NOW, best jobs numbers ever. Had to rebuild our military, which was totally depleted. Fed Rate UP, taxes and regulations WAY DOWN. If Dems won in 2016, the USA would be in big economic (Depression?) & military trouble right now. THE BEST IS YET TO COME. KEEP AMERICA GREAT!”

In its “bottom line,” the Gallup analysis said, “If Trump asks Americans whether they are better off than before he came into office, most would say they are. Trump also gets more credit for recent economic improvements than Obama does...”