Trump's Appeal to Conservatives

[Seawytch]

Yoo Hoo, Boss...I asked you a question.What you believe Reagan understood that Bush, McCain or Romney "didn't understand"? What set Regan apart from them? What wouldn't brand Reagan a RINO in today's GOP?

I think Reagan understood (and articulated) Conservative philosophy. It's not about ideology. Reagan was a "RINO" before being a RINO was a thing. The establishment GOP didn't like him any more than they currently like Trump... he wasn't a Republican ideologue.

You see... an ideologue has a set of ideological principles that are important to them. Those principles become the rigid standard for everything they do. There is nothing wrong with that in of itself, I think Reagan had ideological principles, but he governed with a Conservative philosophy which is quite a different thing. Conservative philosophy sets aside ideology for the sake of pragmatic results.

For instance, you might be ideologically opposed to increased spending but if increasing spending also means you can cut taxes and stimulate a stagnant economy, perhaps that is the pragmatic solution that needs to be done at that time? Conservative philosophy often means stepping away from your ideology and using common sense pragmatism to come to a solution that works.

The current "conservative philosophy" is don't compromise and ideological purity. Reagan would not be welcome in today's GOP. Ted Cruz would have hated the real Regan. Funny how he idolizes the one he created in his head.

 

[Correll]

Conservatives are ideological, no different than liberals.

Trump is appealing to intense opposition and frustration of hardline conservatives towards illegal immigration.

He's also appealing to conservative's sense that America's role in the world has been diminished.

He is also appealing to conservative's frustration with the establishment.

He is appealing to blue collar, uneducated workers, who have been capitalism's losers over the past 30 years.

Little else matters to conservatives who support Trump.

I don't care that America's role in the world has been diminished.

America is not about being a superpower.

Indeed, I think we need to disentangle ourselves from many of our Cold War alliances.

Because the Cold War is over and those alliances are not longer in our interests.

I would have supported going to war in the Soviet Union invaded West Germany.

I will NOT support going to war if RUSSIA invaded Georgia. Or the Ukraine. Or the Baltics.


You let out how we are tired of the constant huge Trade Deficits too.

 

[Correll]

IMO, Ideology is about trying to discover the rules of how the World Works.

So that in each policy or issue question that arises you have an idea of what will work as a solution, instead of starting from Zero on every question.

It does NOT require rigidity. Rigidity is an individual choice for each Ideologue.

IF you do not get the results from your ideological policies that you ideology states you should, you need to re-examine both your understanding of the issue, AND your ideology.

Because one of the is incorrect.

 

[NightFox]

"Represent" is inherent in the word "Republic" It is essentially 'Public' and 'Represent'... Republic. Our government is a representative republic.

This is true however IMHO the context is inaccurate, the Represent component is symbolic for the fact that the business of government is carried out in a direct way by the REPRESENTATIVES of the people, government itself does not REPRESENT the people as it is *supposed* to be a servant of the people, saying that it "represents" you is like saying your gardener represents you. Just the way I look at, I suppose at the end of the day it's a question of semantics.

The intent of the founders are basically what is my understanding of Conservative philosophy... (as opposed to radical ideology.) What makes a "good conservative" can be debatable but it is often my experience this delves into particular ideological leanings more than a clear understanding of what Conservative philosophy is.

I see what you're saying and I think the difficulty comes from the fact that "conservative philosophy" manifests itself in many ways in the public sphere, i.e. principled conservatives may come to different conclusions regarding questions of public policy even though they share common principles, the same can be said of libertarians, we come to different conclusions regarding public policy questions even though we are applying the same non-aggression and property rights principles.

And Libertarian CAN be a philosophy but the modern day Libertarian is an ideologue with a rigid ideological agenda. Libertarian and Conservative philosophy are actually close cousins and the founders held both philosophies.

You're painting with WAY too broad a brush, *some* libertarians are rigid ideologues but many (most) serious libertarians that I've come in contact with are not, the questions inevitably begin and end with moral questions not ones regarding politics and the power derived from it. I do agree libertarians and conservatives often have a lot in common with respect to philosophy (probably due in large part to the fact that libertarianism is a direct descendant of the classical liberalism shared by most of the founders and to lesser degree so to is modern conservatism).

 

[NYcarbineer]

Trump's appeal to vast numbers of conservatives is an admission by vast numbers of conservatives that mainstream conservatism of past decades was wrong.

Trump opposes free trade, once a cornerstone of rightwing principles. Now they flip flop and flock to him.

Trump claims, at least, that he opposed the Iraq War (putting him shoulder to shoulder with President Obama)

Time was conservatives would call you a traitor for opposing the Iraq War, now they flock to Trump.

Conservatives en masse are quick to vigorously defend the Bush presidency on the one hand, but they want nothing to do with any semblance of Bush successor on the other hand.

Evangelicals are abandoning the most evangelical-friendly candidates in the race and flocking to Trump, who is about as Christian as I am.

Conservatives used to talk about how principles dictated that you should support the most genuine conservatives in elections,

now they are flocking to Trump only because he looks like he's the most electable.

 

[Correll]

Trump's appeal to vast numbers of conservatives is an admission by vast numbers of conservatives that mainstream conservatism of past decades was wrong.

Trump opposes free trade, once a cornerstone of rightwing principles. Now they flip flop and flock to him.

Trump claims, at least, that he opposed the Iraq War (putting him shoulder to shoulder with President Obama)

Time was conservatives would call you a traitor for opposing the Iraq War, now they flock to Trump.

Conservatives en masse are quick to vigorously defend the Bush presidency on the one hand, but they want nothing to do with any semblance of Bush successor on the other hand.

Evangelicals are abandoning the most evangelical-friendly candidates in the race and flocking to Trump, who is about as Christian as I am.

Conservatives used to talk about how principles dictated that you should support the most genuine conservatives in elections,

now they are flocking to Trump only because he looks like he's the most electable.

I was a Free Trader.

Free Trade was NOT supposed to lead to wage stagnation for the Middle Class.

And I am increasingly skeptical that what we have with our trading partners, especially China is Free Trade.


I supported the Iraq War because I bought the idea that we could build a democracy there as a way of remaking the ME into a less crappy shithole.

We put plenty of effort into that. The results from the Iraqis are not what we hoped.

Democracy does NOT seem to be the idea that will defeat Islamic fundamentalism.

 

[Jroc]

I don't know why everyone is Assuming his supporters have to be Conservatives. Unless someone has gone to one of his rally's and took a poll of everyone there. Then I find this offensive to just assume that's who is supporting him. Where did this attacking your own Republican party supporters come from? That used to be a no no. But then so did attacking a candidates baby with downs syndrome.

Conservatives have taken a bum rap for many years because we've been "led" by a series of people who don't really understand what Conservative philosophy is. Reagan understood, but since Reagan we've had the Bushes, McCain, Romney, etc. None of them understand Conservative philosophy. They understand Republicanism... they might understand Social Conservative ideology... they might be a markedly better alternative to Socialist left ideology but none of it means they truly understand core Conservative philosophy.

I think a lot of Trump's support are philosophical Conservatives whether they identify as that or not. The "brand" has been so damaged by the "FAR RIGHT" rhetoric from the left which has simply gone unchecked for years that a lot of true Conservatives simply no longer identify as such. They don't want to be labeled "Teabagger Wackos" or denigrated as religious nuts, homophobes and racists. It's not who they are and not what they believe.

So tell us what you believe Reagan understood that Bush, McCain or Romney "didn't understand"? What set Regan apart from them? Do you really think Regan, who raised taxes, gave amnesty, traded arms for hostages, cut and run AND supported gun control, would be welcome in today's GOP?

Some people live in their own delusional world. All they can spew is out of context, non-thinking ,stupid talking points. What's it like in your world?

 

[MarcATL]

We hear all kinds of opinions on why people think Trump is appealing so strongly with Conservatives. What is somewhat confusing is how there seems to be SOME Conservatives who vehemently don't like Trump while others do... so what is the deal here? Are the ones who like Trump just naive and stupid? Are the ones who don't like Trump just paranoid and disillusioned? Let us throw out the OBVIOUS disdain from the liberal left Democrats who HATE Trump and any other potential Republican or person to the right of Chairman Mao... What is it about Trump that is appealing so strongly to so many Conservatives?

I personally think the very thing that many Conservatives complain about with Trump is the exact thing that appeals to so many other Conservatives. The complaint is that Trump doesn't really stand for a conservative ideology... and that's the point... he is NOT ideological! He is tapping in to something I have been vocal about here for years... Conservatism is NOT an ideology, it's an overall philosophy.

Conservatism is actually the antithesis of Ideology. It is the pragmatic approach to problem solving. Reasoned and rational solutions that are time tested and proven as opposed to some rigid ideological bent that must be adhered to in all circumstances. Looking at a problem from all sides and formulating a strategy which considers the human equation. Not being so tied to an ideological difference that you can't see any other possibility before you. It's not "go along to get along" but rather a reasoned pragmatism which considers both sides of the coin.

I think Ronald Reagan, although he articulated this better than Trump, tapped in to the same sentiment. This is precisely what promulgated the "Reagan Democrat" and was highly responsible for his immense popularity. Think about, when you encounter people who hate Reagan or hate Trump, they tend to be the more ideological type. Whether from the left or right, they are the "extremists" and they don't like Trump because he doesn't fit their mold. How many times do we hear and see the examples of how he's "not a true conservative"? It usually centers on something that he has favored or taken a position on in the past that is inconsistent with values or perceptions of what a "true" conservative is supposed to be.

This has got to be a huge advantage for him politically because he is not tied to "far-right" or "far-left" radicalism. And I think THAT is his major appeal to so many true philosophical conservatives. I also think this will be a great appeal to so-called independents and moderates. He represents the type of person they are looking for in a leader... someone who isn't rooted in some extremist rhetorical ideology but rather a problem solver who can step outside the box of political correctness or partisan politics to affect change. I think he poses a huge political problem for the ideologues on both sides because he also has a certain charisma that others don't have. Even when he is wrong he is interesting.

You seem to be very good at making up crap as you go along. I'll give you that.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

 

[NYcarbineer]

Trump's appeal to vast numbers of conservatives is an admission by vast numbers of conservatives that mainstream conservatism of past decades was wrong.

Trump opposes free trade, once a cornerstone of rightwing principles. Now they flip flop and flock to him.

Trump claims, at least, that he opposed the Iraq War (putting him shoulder to shoulder with President Obama)

Time was conservatives would call you a traitor for opposing the Iraq War, now they flock to Trump.

Conservatives en masse are quick to vigorously defend the Bush presidency on the one hand, but they want nothing to do with any semblance of Bush successor on the other hand.

Evangelicals are abandoning the most evangelical-friendly candidates in the race and flocking to Trump, who is about as Christian as I am.

Conservatives used to talk about how principles dictated that you should support the most genuine conservatives in elections,

now they are flocking to Trump only because he looks like he's the most electable.

I was a Free Trader.

Free Trade was NOT supposed to lead to wage stagnation for the Middle Class.

And I am increasingly skeptical that what we have with our trading partners, especially China is Free Trade.


I supported the Iraq War because I bought the idea that we could build a democracy there as a way of remaking the ME into a less crappy shithole.

We put plenty of effort into that. The results from the Iraqis are not what we hoped.

Democracy does NOT seem to be the idea that will defeat Islamic fundamentalism.

You're then a prime example of whom I'm talking about.

 

[Correll]

Trump's appeal to vast numbers of conservatives is an admission by vast numbers of conservatives that mainstream conservatism of past decades was wrong.

Trump opposes free trade, once a cornerstone of rightwing principles. Now they flip flop and flock to him.

Trump claims, at least, that he opposed the Iraq War (putting him shoulder to shoulder with President Obama)

Time was conservatives would call you a traitor for opposing the Iraq War, now they flock to Trump.

Conservatives en masse are quick to vigorously defend the Bush presidency on the one hand, but they want nothing to do with any semblance of Bush successor on the other hand.

Evangelicals are abandoning the most evangelical-friendly candidates in the race and flocking to Trump, who is about as Christian as I am.

Conservatives used to talk about how principles dictated that you should support the most genuine conservatives in elections,

now they are flocking to Trump only because he looks like he's the most electable.

I was a Free Trader.

Free Trade was NOT supposed to lead to wage stagnation for the Middle Class.

And I am increasingly skeptical that what we have with our trading partners, especially China is Free Trade.


I supported the Iraq War because I bought the idea that we could build a democracy there as a way of remaking the ME into a less crappy shithole.

We put plenty of effort into that. The results from the Iraqis are not what we hoped.

Democracy does NOT seem to be the idea that will defeat Islamic fundamentalism.

You're then a prime example of whom I'm talking about.

No, because it's not "because he looks like he's the most electable".

I explained the real reasons, not your spin reason.

 

[jillian]

Yeah! Common sense! it doesn't take experience, gravitas or superior intellect. All we need is a guy with common sense. We need someone to make our problems sound simple.....then we can have simple solutions! Weeeeeeeee!

that's what happens when someone appeals to simplistic people.

All you just did was reveal was how narrow minded and arrogant you are.

how so? because I understand that he's providing simplistic hate-filled answers to simplistic people?

yokie dokie.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Conservatives are not ideological. That's awesome.

There certainly is no shortage of hand wringing going on regarding the Donald. Some of you folks are twisting yourselves into untidy pretzels as you seek comfort. It's very entertaining.

Sure.... but frankly I think The Donald and Cruz are two of the best things to happen in a while. They're scaring the bezeejus of of the beltway, Dems and the GOP alike.

It's awesome.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Yeah! Common sense! it doesn't take experience, gravitas or superior intellect. All we need is a guy with common sense. We need someone to make our problems sound simple.....then we can have simple solutions! Weeeeeeeee!

that's what happens when someone appeals to simplistic people.

All you just did was reveal was how narrow minded and arrogant you are.

how so? because I understand that he's providing simplistic hate-filled answers to simplistic people?

yokie dokie.

Got examples?

And frankly, what are Sanders' or Clinton's mind boggling plans to fix the mess created by decades of policies they embrace?

Thanks in advance.

 

[candycorn]

I don't know why everyone is Assuming his supporters have to be Conservatives. Unless someone has gone to one of his rally's and took a poll of everyone there. Then I find this offensive to just assume that's who is supporting him. Where did this attacking your own Republican party supporters come from? That used to be a no no. But then so did attacking a candidates baby with downs syndrome.

Because his supporters are stupid, gullible, hateful, and politically unsophisticated. So you just assume they are all conservatives like yourself.

 

[candycorn]

Conservatives are not ideological. That's awesome.

There certainly is no shortage of hand wringing going on regarding the Donald. Some of you folks are twisting yourselves into untidy pretzels as you seek comfort. It's very entertaining.

As a sociopath, it is probably hard for you to relate to people.

stop projecting.

I've a very warm person.

LL is not a normal person.

There is something seriously wrong with that guy.

The Press is the enemy. Fuck them.

Fuck the UN.

I'm completely serious.
The media has a lot to answer for the way they have betrayed their professional responsibilities and their nation.
Fuck them. They deserve worse than to be mocked.

The above was in response to new GOP Messiah Trump mocking a man with a birth defect:

Fuck you asshole.

Fuck, you asshole.

Fuck you asshole.

Fuck you asshole.

No, we aren't. It's our country.
Fuck you.

Warm?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I don't know why everyone is Assuming his supporters have to be Conservatives. Unless someone has gone to one of his rally's and took a poll of everyone there. Then I find this offensive to just assume that's who is supporting him. Where did this attacking your own Republican party supporters come from? That used to be a no no. But then so did attacking a candidates baby with downs syndrome.

Because his supporters are stupid, gullible, hateful, and politically unsophisticated. So you just assume they are all conservatives like yourself.

Oh palease.... anyone supporting a Sanders or Clinton ticket is about as stupid, gullible, hateful and unsophisticated as it gets. You leftists crack me up... you blindly support anyone your party throws at you as long as you think they're gonna stick to the "other guy" in order to get you some free shit and then call the other guys stupid.

Geeze.. get over yourselves.. you're all as dopey as it gets.

 

[candycorn]

I don't know why everyone is Assuming his supporters have to be Conservatives. Unless someone has gone to one of his rally's and took a poll of everyone there. Then I find this offensive to just assume that's who is supporting him. Where did this attacking your own Republican party supporters come from? That used to be a no no. But then so did attacking a candidates baby with downs syndrome.

Because his supporters are stupid, gullible, hateful, and politically unsophisticated. So you just assume they are all conservatives like yourself.

Oh palease.... anyone supporting a Sanders or Clinton ticket is about as stupid, gullible, hateful and unsophisticated as it gets.

I'll agree with you about Sanders supporters. The mathematics do not add up for his crazy and frankly dangerous programs and policies. He's not living in the real world.

Us Clinton supporters are supporting the candidate with the best resume in the field; the most experience of anyone to seek the office since Bush Sr. And someone who isn't running from Megan Kelly because she's mean. We're not talking about Tim Russert or Sam Donaldson...Megan Kelly????

You leftists crack me up... you blindly support anyone your party throws at you as long as you think they're gonna stick to the "other guy" in order to get you some free shit and then call the other guys stupid.

Still waiting for my "free shit" from Obama.

Geeze.. get over yourselves.. you're all as dopey as it gets.

Here is your messiah making fun of a man with birth defects:

Double-down on the stupid and tell us why that was justified or run along little boy.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Yeah! Common sense! it doesn't take experience, gravitas or superior intellect. All we need is a guy with common sense. We need someone to make our problems sound simple.....then we can have simple solutions! Weeeeeeeee!

that's what happens when someone appeals to simplistic people.

All you just did was reveal was how narrow minded and arrogant you are.

how so? because I understand that he's providing simplistic hate-filled answers to simplistic people?

yokie dokie.

Got examples?

And frankly, what are Sanders' or Clinton's mind boggling plans to fix the mess created by decades of policies they embrace?

Thanks in advance.

Yeah, I didn't think so.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I don't know why everyone is Assuming his supporters have to be Conservatives. Unless someone has gone to one of his rally's and took a poll of everyone there. Then I find this offensive to just assume that's who is supporting him. Where did this attacking your own Republican party supporters come from? That used to be a no no. But then so did attacking a candidates baby with downs syndrome.

Because his supporters are stupid, gullible, hateful, and politically unsophisticated. So you just assume they are all conservatives like yourself.

Oh palease.... anyone supporting a Sanders or Clinton ticket is about as stupid, gullible, hateful and unsophisticated as it gets.

I'll agree with you about Sanders supporters. The mathematics do not add up for his crazy and frankly dangerous programs and policies. He's not living in the real world.

Us Clinton supporters are supporting the candidate with the best resume in the field; the most experience of anyone to seek the office since Bush Sr. And someone who isn't running from Megan Kelly because she's mean. We're not talking about Tim Russert or Sam Donaldson...Megan Kelly????

You leftists crack me up... you blindly support anyone your party throws at you as long as you think they're gonna stick to the "other guy" in order to get you some free shit and then call the other guys stupid.

Still waiting for my "free shit" from Obama.

Geeze.. get over yourselves.. you're all as dopey as it gets.

Here is your messiah making fun of a man with birth defects:

Double-down on the stupid and tell us why that was justified or run along little boy.

That's it? Some childish little internet meme? That's your answer to my assertion?

And when did I ever claim that Trump was my messiah? Project much?

And I stand by what I said earlier, all the Dems have is class warfare, stupid musings about mythical one-per-centers and climate change. Shit, you guys voted a for a junior senator with no experience based on "Yes we can" and "Hope and change".

 

[candycorn]

I don't know why everyone is Assuming his supporters have to be Conservatives. Unless someone has gone to one of his rally's and took a poll of everyone there. Then I find this offensive to just assume that's who is supporting him. Where did this attacking your own Republican party supporters come from? That used to be a no no. But then so did attacking a candidates baby with downs syndrome.

Because his supporters are stupid, gullible, hateful, and politically unsophisticated. So you just assume they are all conservatives like yourself.

Oh palease.... anyone supporting a Sanders or Clinton ticket is about as stupid, gullible, hateful and unsophisticated as it gets.

I'll agree with you about Sanders supporters. The mathematics do not add up for his crazy and frankly dangerous programs and policies. He's not living in the real world.

Us Clinton supporters are supporting the candidate with the best resume in the field; the most experience of anyone to seek the office since Bush Sr. And someone who isn't running from Megan Kelly because she's mean. We're not talking about Tim Russert or Sam Donaldson...Megan Kelly????

You leftists crack me up... you blindly support anyone your party throws at you as long as you think they're gonna stick to the "other guy" in order to get you some free shit and then call the other guys stupid.

Still waiting for my "free shit" from Obama.

Geeze.. get over yourselves.. you're all as dopey as it gets.

Here is your messiah making fun of a man with birth defects:

Double-down on the stupid and tell us why that was justified or run along little boy.

That's it? Some childish little internet meme? That's your answer to my assertion?

No. That is a video of your Messiah, The Donald. A meme is when you add your own words or cartoons or whatever. This is raw feed.
You can look up the video on-line.

And when did I ever claim that Trump was my messiah?

About the same time anyone here claimed Obama was a Messiah.

And I stand by what I said earlier, all the Dems have is class warfare, stupid musings about mythical one-per-centers and climate change. Shit, you guys voted a for a junior senator with no experience based on "Yes we can" and "Hope and change".

332-206
More than "us guys" voted for him. Says a lot about the guys you've supported....

Climate change is quite real as almost every scientist on earth will attest.

Say, isn't Ted Cruz a junior Senator with no experience? Oh wait, I must be thinking of another Canadian.