Trump's trade war with China

[Correll]

So, the guy that took 30 years to notice that by the 90s, the policies he had pushed, since the 70s, failed,


he thinks the worsts is past US now?


Well, color me reassured.


NOT!



And of course, once again you dodge the point, and just move on to your next attack.


This economic, who I think is one of the ones you cited in the past, admits the problems, I was pointing out, these last few months.


THe problems that, before this, you were blaming on everything else, when you weren't pretending to be unaware of them.

AND puts the cause on the policies of globalization, to a great extent, just like I said.

You going to defer to his authority now?


Rhetorical question. I know you will just move on to your next attack,


Willy.

He is not someone I ever reference, you lie again.

Again, he doesn't agree with you. He is not for tariffs. You lose again.

1. I asked if he was one of those you referenced. And you call me a liar for asking a question. Once again, you are playing dishonest games.


2. My point was that he agrees on the problem and the connection to globalization. ONce again, you dodge my point, and just move on to your next attack. Willy.


3. This guy admits that he took 30 years to notice that the results were not what he expected. Why the fuck should we listen to him now?

You brought him up, not me. Righties love growing inequality, this is your dream. He is stating it has been more disruptive than they expected. He would also tell you tariffs are disruptive, look at the steel layoffs.

1. And you called me a liar for asking if he was one of the ones you referenced. Willy.

2. "more disrupted than expected"? Yeah, this is after decades and millions of lost jobs, and he is admitting that his advice was wrong, and resulted in untold pain and suffering. See past the spin.

3. Yes, he would. But why the fuck would we listen to this loser, who just admitted that his life work was a fuck up?

Well you brought him up when you thought he agreed with you. Why did YOU bring him up?

I clearly stated why I brought him up. It was the point we have been discussing for weeks. It was the point you cut from the top of this thread post so that you could pretend to be confused about what the point was.


Willy.


The point is that unbalanced trade is at least a big part of, if not the primary cause of the wage stagnation we have seen over the last 50 years.




You ignored that, pretended to be confused about that, even though it has been the crux of our disagreement for weeks, and even though I specifically said that was why I brought him up,


and without a single hint of addressing it, like Wally did, "ok", you immediately moved on to your next line of attack.



Ask yourself this, if by some magic, I nailed you down and you admitted that trade was a major cause of wage stagnation,



would you next time the issue came up, start over at the beginning of your circular argument, pretending that never happened?

 

[charwin95]

The affect of the dumb TW will eventually hit every ones pocket.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Texas Instruments Sinks as Customers Cut Orders on Trade Woe

Texas Instruments Inc. shares plunged the most in almost 11 years after the chipmaker gave a weaker-than-expected forecast and warned that trade tension is making customers far more cautious.

The company said most of its markets deteriorated in the quarter, with automotive and communications-equipment demand among the weakest. Companies are cutting back on orders as they wait for China and the U.S. to reach a definitive trade agreement, Chief Financial Officer Rafael Lizardi said.

 

[skye]

GOD BLESS PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP!

I love and absolutely agree with the way he is dealing with hegemonic China.

 

[charwin95]

Can someone... Why would anyone in this world support a trade wars?


Some U.S. electronics factories start layoffs as trade tariffs hit

Some U.S. electronics factories start layoffs as trade tariffs hit

Reuters) - U.S. electronics factories are investing less and slowing hiring or laying off workers in some cases due to the rising costs of trade tariffs, according to an industry survey set for release on Wednesday.

The IPC, a global electronic industries trade association, found that nearly a third of all the dollar value of what its members with U.S. operations import has been hit by increased costs from the protracted U.S.-China trade war.

 

[skye]

The world have had enough of China expansionism ...not only in the South China Sea....but all over the planet, frankly.

There is a limit China! do you understand?

 

[Brain357]

The world have had enough of China expansionism ...not only in the South China Sea....but all over the planet, frankly.

There is a limit China! do you understand?

1.9% gdp says it’s limiting us. China was going to implode on its own.

 

[Zorro!]

The world have had enough of China expansionism ...not only in the South China Sea....but all over the planet, frankly.

There is a limit China! do you understand?

1.9% gdp says it’s limiting us. China was going to implode on its own.

If China agrees to quit stealing from us, we will stop raising tariffs. Right now they have chosen to pay the tariffs, though they are making noises about finally agreeing to stop their theft.

 

[charwin95]

The world have had enough of China expansionism ...not only in the South China Sea....but all over the planet, frankly.

There is a limit China! do you understand?

So far. We are loosing and we are paying for the price.

 

[charwin95]

The world have had enough of China expansionism ...not only in the South China Sea....but all over the planet, frankly.

There is a limit China! do you understand?

And with the rate how coward and inept this president...... Russia is going to take over too.

I can just see Putin and Xi high fiving.

 

[Zorro!]

"If anyone had doubts that trade was the thing hanging over the market, today seals it," said Bill Stone, chief investment officer with Avalon Investment & Advisory.

Tariffs on popular consumer goods like clothing, shoes, computers, and cell phones cause higher prices. Even Trump admitted that yesterday. Higher prices cause inflation. Inflation causes less demand. Less demand causes unemployment. Tariffs cause recession, Econ 101.

When Americans suffer investment losses it causes permanent loss of principle, fourth grade math. Millions of Americans permanently lost more of their principle in investment accounts today.

As things stand now, the Dow has lost over 575 points, the Nasdaq over 200 points, and the S&P over 65 points. The reason: Stocks plunged on Wednesday, giving back Tuesday’s solid gains, after the U.S. bond market flashed a troubling signal about the U.S. economy, a recession warning.

There have been five such warnings of the 2-year and 10-year yields since 1978 and all were precursors to a recession.

Dow tanks 800 points in worst day of 2019 after bond market sends recession warning

Today, the Dow is at 25,690. On March 15, the Dow was 25,440. Because of Trump's trade war with China, the market has been treading water for five months. Stock Market News For Feb 15, 2019

I have been a student of current political history for over a half century, and I am a retired columnist. Never in my 50 years have I seen a U.S. President repeatedly harm our economy and cause investment losses. The current President is doing that very thing. The past three weeks prove it.

We are reminded that Trump was Putin's personal choice to become our President.

In the 16 weeks since you posted that the DOW is up over 250 points.

We have had ZERO negative quarters, you keep screaming recession and we have yet to have a SINGLE negative quarter. How does one have a recession with NO sub-zero quarters?

The Left carries water for China on EVERY US/China dispute and I didn't understand this until I learned just how much Cash China plows into he Left's pocket as they rape the US economy. You guys fool no one.

CHINA SYNDROME:
Chinese blood pressure pills sold in US recalled over cancer-linked ingredient

Chinese firm’s blood pressure pills recalled in US over cancer link

 

[pknopp]

The Dow is up but that is because the Fed had pumped billions of dollars. Good luck keeping that up.

After passing the condemnation of China's actions in Hong Kong Trump isn't going to get concessions now either.

 

[gtopa1]

The Dow is up but that is because the Fed had pumped billions of dollars. Good luck keeping that up.

After passing the condemnation of China's actions in Hong Kong Trump isn't going to get concessions now either.

So did Trump do the right thing or not??

Greg

 

[Zorro!]

The Dow is up but that is because the Fed had pumped billions of dollars. Good luck keeping that up...

So what? It's still up.

The Fed Balance Sheet was at $4,452,838M when Trump took office, it is at $4,065,696M today. Over the 1,052 days Trump has been President, the Fed has REMOVED $387,242M in assets from it's balance sheet.

Over Obama's final 1,052 days, the Fed ADDED $288,996M in assets. Can you direct me to your posts during Obama's final 1,052 days where you argued that the Stock Market value was not meaningful because the Fed had Pumped $289B into the economy?

... After passing the condemnation of China's actions in Hong Kong Trump isn't going to get concessions now either.

Trump didn't "pass" them, Congress did, Trump signed them into law. Clearly our Federal Government is unified behind the position that if China tries to pull another Tienanmen Square Blood Bath that the consequence will be severe.

I expect that China will wisely show restraint with Hong Kong. Our Dec. 15 deadline is still in place to impose a new round of U.S. tariffs on some $156 billion of China’s remaining exports to the United States, but the president likes where trade talks with China are going.

China’s trade surplus for November stood at $38.73 billion. $24.60 billion, or 2/3rds of their total trade SURPLUS is with the United States. We are clearly their very best customer. And as their very best customer they are either going to agree to a verifiable deal to quit stealing our intellectual property, or they are going to see increased tariffs on another $156B of their exports to us. It's very simple, quit stealing our intellectual property or pay more in tariffs, so far, they are choosing to pay more in tariffs, though Trump is continuing to assist them in finding their price point.

You can see the increase in tariff revenue since Trump started working on helping the Chinese figure out how much they are willing to pay in tariffs in order to continue stealing our intellectual property.

That spike to the right? That's Trump's work, and this graph is in $BILLIONS

If they are willing to pay $BILLIONS in tariffs in order to steal our intellectual property, why are we obligated to let them steal it for free?

The Left ALWAYS carries water for the Chinese. But they fill the pockets of the politically connected Left with cold hard cash as they rape the US economy, so I guess I can see why the Left always takes the Chinese side, well, except for, finally, with Hong Kong and their mass prison camps for Chinese Muslims, finally with Trump's bold leadership we see the House doing something other than trying to impeach Trump. Good for the House, finally doing a few things right! Keep it up!

 

[pknopp]

The Dow is up but that is because the Fed had pumped billions of dollars. Good luck keeping that up.

After passing the condemnation of China's actions in Hong Kong Trump isn't going to get concessions now either.

So did Trump do the right thing or not??

Greg

No. He should have addressed the U.S. businesses that moved their manufacturing there. It would have been hypocritical of him but that is what we need to do.

Moving manufacturing to Thailand does not help us.

 

[pknopp]

The Dow is up but that is because the Fed had pumped billions of dollars. Good luck keeping that up...

So what? It's still up.

The Fed Balance Sheet was at $4,452,838M when Trump took office, it is at $4,065,696M today. Over the 1,052 days Trump has been President, the Fed has REMOVED $387,242M in assets from it's balance sheet.

Over Obama's final 1,052 days, the Fed ADDED $288,996M in assets. Can you direct me to your posts during Obama's final 1,052 days where you argued that the Stock Market value was not meaningful because the Fed had Pumped $289B into the economy?

... After passing the condemnation of China's actions in Hong Kong Trump isn't going to get concessions now either.

Trump didn't "pass" them, Congress did, Trump signed them into law. Clearly our Federal Government is unified behind the position that if China tries to pull another Tienanmen Square Blood Bath that the consequence will be severe.

I expect that China will wisely show restraint with Hong Kong. Our Dec. 15 deadline is still in place to impose a new round of U.S. tariffs on some $156 billion of China’s remaining exports to the United States, but the president likes where trade talks with China are going.

China’s trade surplus for November stood at $38.73 billion. $24.60 billion, or 2/3rds of their total trade SURPLUS is with the United States. We are clearly their very best customer. And as their very best customer they are either going to agree to a verifiable deal to quit stealing our intellectual property, or they are going to see increased tariffs another $156B of their exports to us. It's very simple, quit stealing our intellectual property or pay more in tariffs, so far, they are choosing to pay more in tariffs, though Trump is continuing to assist them in finding their price point.

You can see the increase in tariff revenue since Trump started working on helping the Chinese figure out how much they are willing to pay in tariffs in order to continue stealing our intellectual property.

That spike to the right? That's Trump's work, and this graph is in $BILLIONS

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=nKWl

If they are willing to pay $BILLIONS in tariffs in order to steal our intellectual property, why are we obligated to let them steal it for free?

The Left ALWAYS carries water for the Chinese. Now that see the $BILLIONS they push into the politically connected Left as they rape the US economy, I guess I can see why the Left always takes the Chinese side, well, except for, finally, with Hong Kong and their mass prison camps for Chinese Muslims, finally with Trump's bold leadership we see the House doing something other than trying to impeach Trump. Good for the House, finally doing a few things right!

[/QUOTE]

You make the same sad mistake as many others. You seem to think that by me condemning the Feds actions under Trump I supported it under Obama. I did not.

Yes condemning China's actions in Hong Kong was a good thing, I simply noted that it means China is not going to play along now.

We could have addressed the companies that moved there and China would play no role.

 

[Dragonlady]

"If anyone had doubts that trade was the thing hanging over the market, today seals it," said Bill Stone, chief investment officer with Avalon Investment & Advisory.

Tariffs on popular consumer goods like clothing, shoes, computers, and cell phones cause higher prices. Even Trump admitted that yesterday. Higher prices cause inflation. Inflation causes less demand. Less demand causes unemployment. Tariffs cause recession, Econ 101.

When Americans suffer investment losses it causes permanent loss of principle, fourth grade math. Millions of Americans permanently lost more of their principle in investment accounts today.

As things stand now, the Dow has lost over 575 points, the Nasdaq over 200 points, and the S&P over 65 points. The reason: Stocks plunged on Wednesday, giving back Tuesday’s solid gains, after the U.S. bond market flashed a troubling signal about the U.S. economy, a recession warning.

There have been five such warnings of the 2-year and 10-year yields since 1978 and all were precursors to a recession.

Dow tanks 800 points in worst day of 2019 after bond market sends recession warning

Today, the Dow is at 25,690. On March 15, the Dow was 25,440. Because of Trump's trade war with China, the market has been treading water for five months. Stock Market News For Feb 15, 2019

I have been a student of current political history for over a half century, and I am a retired columnist. Never in my 50 years have I seen a U.S. President repeatedly harm our economy and cause investment losses. The current President is doing that very thing. The past three weeks prove it.

We are reminded that Trump was Putin's personal choice to become our President.

In the 16 weeks since you posted that the DOW is up over 250 points.

We have had ZERO negative quarters, you keep screaming recession and we have yet to have a SINGLE negative quarter. How does one have a recession with NO sub-zero quarters?

The Left carries water for China on EVERY US/China dispute and I didn't understand this until I learned just how much Cash China plows into he Left's pocket as they rape the US economy. You guys fool no one.

CHINA SYNDROME:
Chinese blood pressure pills sold in US recalled over cancer-linked ingredient

Chinese firm’s blood pressure pills recalled in US over cancer link

80% of Americans do not own stock, so what the market does is only of consequence to the 20% of mostly very wealthy Americans who own stock. Moreover most of the increase in the stock market is because of the massive value of the stock buy-backs in the wake of tax cuts. 2018 and 2019 have had the highest number of share buy backs in US history.

Manufacturing has been in negatives for the past two quarters, and business investment is way down as the trade war disrupts supply lines.

Nobody is carrying water for China. The TPP would have addressed many of the issues faced including intellectual property but Trump pulled out of that one. 18 months ago Trump said that trade wars were easy to win, and now he's saying he may not settle this until after the election. So he's planning on leaving his mess for the next guy.

Your trade problems with China are your own fault. Your corporations off-shored the jobs, with the fiscal blessing of the US government. Now Trump blames China. Blame US consumers for wanting cheaper prices, and American corporations for their greed. China didn't force you fools to off-shore. You did this to yourselves.

Why are Americans allowing Chinese drugs into the country without testing them first?

 

[Zorro!]

"If anyone had doubts that trade was the thing hanging over the market, today seals it," said Bill Stone, chief investment officer with Avalon Investment & Advisory.

Tariffs on popular consumer goods like clothing, shoes, computers, and cell phones cause higher prices. Even Trump admitted that yesterday. Higher prices cause inflation. Inflation causes less demand. Less demand causes unemployment. Tariffs cause recession, Econ 101.

When Americans suffer investment losses it causes permanent loss of principle, fourth grade math. Millions of Americans permanently lost more of their principle in investment accounts today.

As things stand now, the Dow has lost over 575 points, the Nasdaq over 200 points, and the S&P over 65 points. The reason: Stocks plunged on Wednesday, giving back Tuesday’s solid gains, after the U.S. bond market flashed a troubling signal about the U.S. economy, a recession warning.

There have been five such warnings of the 2-year and 10-year yields since 1978 and all were precursors to a recession.

Dow tanks 800 points in worst day of 2019 after bond market sends recession warning

Today, the Dow is at 25,690. On March 15, the Dow was 25,440. Because of Trump's trade war with China, the market has been treading water for five months. Stock Market News For Feb 15, 2019

I have been a student of current political history for over a half century, and I am a retired columnist. Never in my 50 years have I seen a U.S. President repeatedly harm our economy and cause investment losses. The current President is doing that very thing. The past three weeks prove it.

We are reminded that Trump was Putin's personal choice to become our President.

In the 16 weeks since you posted that the DOW is up over 250 points.

We have had ZERO negative quarters, you keep screaming recession and we have yet to have a SINGLE negative quarter. How does one have a recession with NO sub-zero quarters?

The Left carries water for China on EVERY US/China dispute and I didn't understand this until I learned just how much Cash China plows into he Left's pocket as they rape the US economy. You guys fool no one.

CHINA SYNDROME:
Chinese blood pressure pills sold in US recalled over cancer-linked ingredient

Chinese firm’s blood pressure pills recalled in US over cancer link

80% of Americans do not own stock, so what the market does is only of consequence to the 20% of mostly very wealthy Americans who own stock. Moreover most of the increase in the stock market is because of the massive value of the stock buy-backs in the wake of tax cuts. 2018 and 2019 have had the highest number of share buy backs in US history. ..

The Stock Market affects everything from pensions to insurance prices. It's a foul of some sort for a company to buy their own stock?

... Manufacturing has been in negatives for the past two quarters...

Employment levels remains solid

...business investment is way down as the trade war disrupts supply lines...

They will work through it. China has dropped from our #1 trading partner to 3rd behind Mexico and Canada. So goods can be moved from our neighbors rather than from the Chinese pigs that dump their plastic in the ocean.

...18 months ago Trump said that trade wars were easy to win...

We are doing just fine.

... and now he's saying he may not settle this until after the election...

China may decide they would rather pay higher tariffs than quit stealing our intellectual property. So long as that is their choice, tariffs are clearly too low.

... So he's planning on leaving his mess for the next guy...

He planning on winning the next election.

... Your trade problems with China are your own fault...

Good, then we will decide how to fix them, and we choose tariffs, what's it to you?

 

[Zorro!]

The Dow is up but that is because the Fed had pumped billions of dollars. Good luck keeping that up...

So what? It's still up.

The Fed Balance Sheet was at $4,452,838M when Trump took office, it is at $4,065,696M today. Over the 1,052 days Trump has been President, the Fed has REMOVED $387,242M in assets from it's balance sheet.

Over Obama's final 1,052 days, the Fed ADDED $288,996M in assets. Can you direct me to your posts during Obama's final 1,052 days where you argued that the Stock Market value was not meaningful because the Fed had Pumped $289B into the economy?

... After passing the condemnation of China's actions in Hong Kong Trump isn't going to get concessions now either.

Trump didn't "pass" them, Congress did, Trump signed them into law. Clearly our Federal Government is unified behind the position that if China tries to pull another Tienanmen Square Blood Bath that the consequence will be severe.

I expect that China will wisely show restraint with Hong Kong. Our Dec. 15 deadline is still in place to impose a new round of U.S. tariffs on some $156 billion of China’s remaining exports to the United States, but the president likes where trade talks with China are going.

China’s trade surplus for November stood at $38.73 billion. $24.60 billion, or 2/3rds of their total trade SURPLUS is with the United States. We are clearly their very best customer. And as their very best customer they are either going to agree to a verifiable deal to quit stealing our intellectual property, or they are going to see increased tariffs another $156B of their exports to us. It's very simple, quit stealing our intellectual property or pay more in tariffs, so far, they are choosing to pay more in tariffs, though Trump is continuing to assist them in finding their price point.

You can see the increase in tariff revenue since Trump started working on helping the Chinese figure out how much they are willing to pay in tariffs in order to continue stealing our intellectual property.

That spike to the right? That's Trump's work, and this graph is in $BILLIONS

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=nKWl

If they are willing to pay $BILLIONS in tariffs in order to steal our intellectual property, why are we obligated to let them steal it for free?

The Left ALWAYS carries water for the Chinese. Now that see the $BILLIONS they push into the politically connected Left as they rape the US economy, I guess I can see why the Left always takes the Chinese side, well, except for, finally, with Hong Kong and their mass prison camps for Chinese Muslims, finally with Trump's bold leadership we see the House doing something other than trying to impeach Trump. Good for the House, finally doing a few things right!

You make the same sad mistake as many others. You seem to think that by me condemning the Feds actions under Trump I supported it under Obama. I did not. ...

Fine. Give some links to 3 posts you posted during the last 3 years of the Obama Administration while the Fed was adding nearly $300B to their balance sheet.

The Fed unloading $387B in assets during Trump first 3 years is not equivalent to the Fed loading up with $289B during the last three years of Obama's presidency.

... Yes condemning China's actions in Hong Kong was a good thing, I simply noted that it means China is not going to play along now...

So screw 'em. I have no objection to adding another round of tariffs on the 15th.

... We could have addressed the companies that moved there ...

We are. If they want to access our consumer markets they have to pay the tariffs.

 

[Zorro!]

The Dow is up but that is because the Fed had pumped billions of dollars. Good luck keeping that up.

After passing the condemnation of China's actions in Hong Kong Trump isn't going to get concessions now either.

So did Trump do the right thing or not??

Greg

No. He should have addressed the U.S. businesses that moved their manufacturing there. It would have been hypocritical of him but that is what we need to do...

He is. If they want to make their goods in China, and sell them here, they have to pay the tariffs just like everyone else.

... Moving manufacturing to Thailand does not help us.

It MOST CERTAINLY does. Thailand isn't building a military specifically to challenge us. Thailand isn't threatening to sink a couple of US Aircraft Carriers.

 

[pknopp]

The Dow is up but that is because the Fed had pumped billions of dollars. Good luck keeping that up...

So what? It's still up.

The Fed Balance Sheet was at $4,452,838M when Trump took office, it is at $4,065,696M today. Over the 1,052 days Trump has been President, the Fed has REMOVED $387,242M in assets from it's balance sheet.

Over Obama's final 1,052 days, the Fed ADDED $288,996M in assets. Can you direct me to your posts during Obama's final 1,052 days where you argued that the Stock Market value was not meaningful because the Fed had Pumped $289B into the economy?

... After passing the condemnation of China's actions in Hong Kong Trump isn't going to get concessions now either.

Trump didn't "pass" them, Congress did, Trump signed them into law. Clearly our Federal Government is unified behind the position that if China tries to pull another Tienanmen Square Blood Bath that the consequence will be severe.

I expect that China will wisely show restraint with Hong Kong. Our Dec. 15 deadline is still in place to impose a new round of U.S. tariffs on some $156 billion of China’s remaining exports to the United States, but the president likes where trade talks with China are going.

China’s trade surplus for November stood at $38.73 billion. $24.60 billion, or 2/3rds of their total trade SURPLUS is with the United States. We are clearly their very best customer. And as their very best customer they are either going to agree to a verifiable deal to quit stealing our intellectual property, or they are going to see increased tariffs another $156B of their exports to us. It's very simple, quit stealing our intellectual property or pay more in tariffs, so far, they are choosing to pay more in tariffs, though Trump is continuing to assist them in finding their price point.

You can see the increase in tariff revenue since Trump started working on helping the Chinese figure out how much they are willing to pay in tariffs in order to continue stealing our intellectual property.

That spike to the right? That's Trump's work, and this graph is in $BILLIONS

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/fredgraph.png?g=nKWl

If they are willing to pay $BILLIONS in tariffs in order to steal our intellectual property, why are we obligated to let them steal it for free?

The Left ALWAYS carries water for the Chinese. Now that see the $BILLIONS they push into the politically connected Left as they rape the US economy, I guess I can see why the Left always takes the Chinese side, well, except for, finally, with Hong Kong and their mass prison camps for Chinese Muslims, finally with Trump's bold leadership we see the House doing something other than trying to impeach Trump. Good for the House, finally doing a few things right!

You make the same sad mistake as many others. You seem to think that by me condemning the Feds actions under Trump I supported it under Obama. I did not. ...

Fine. Give some links to 3 posts you posted during the last 3 years of the Obama Administration while the Fed was adding nearly $300B to their balance sheet.

I wasn't here then but read this thread.

The "Obama Recovery" was phony. Markets beginning to tank again. (McCain, health care) - Politics and Other Controversies -Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Conservatives, Liberals, Third Parties, Left-Wing, Right-Wing, Congress, President - Page 3 - City-Data Forum

Names the same.

We are. If they want to access our consumer markets they have to pay the tariffs.

The consumers are paying the tariffs. You know this though.