Turkey is attacking the Kurds, who were risking their lives for the US just last week..

[irosie91]

the dilemms is HOW TO SUPPORT THE KURDS without risking American lives

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

We should have never been in the Middle East, period......for years, to have that position, one was called a traitor, a coward, aiding the terrorists -- "if we fight over them there, we don't have to fight them here!!"

For years, anyone talking about ending the wars and bringing the troops home were called cut and runners, deserters on the battlefield -- and most of the people who were saying that call themselves Trump supporters now....

Well welcome to the club, glad you folks are now on board with getting out of the Middle East....hope when a Dem is back in office, you don't change your mind....be consistent for once in your life

 

[JoeB131]

The governments of Korea, Japan, and Germany both condone our presence, and benefit financially, and militarily from it. Syria..? Not so much. Gargantuan difference.

Actually, funny thing. If an American Serviceman breaks their laws, he goes to one of their jails, like the two numbnuts who raped the 12 year old Japanese girl went to a Japanese prison.

Now, because Bush fucked up pretty much that whole region when he invaded Iraq over a lie, yes, we can say the region is not benefiting from our presence. This is making things worse, though. We've told our one ally in the region, "Meh, fuck you, Trump has a Tower in Instanbul!"

 

[JoeB131]

Yes the military industrial complex would like us stuck in another never going to change hot zone. It is good for business. That does not change a single thing I posted.

What you posted was a babbling rant about how this is all Obama's fault...

I hope Obama is paying you rent for all that space he occupies in your head three years after he retired.

 

[JoeB131]

it's amazing how many idiots like Jimhack care about the Kurds now that they can be used to bash Trump.

The Kurds weren't in any danger before Trump started selling them out.

It impresses me that all you warmongers who supported Bush no matter how many times he lied and denounced Obama when he got us out of Iraq have all turned into a bunch of hippies when your Orange Fuhrer sells out our only ally.

 

[harmonica]

Turkey is not going to take over or smash anything
learn some history
----it's like Beirut/etc --we were accomplishing NOTHING
..also like using force in Somalia-accomplished nothing politically/etc
..also Vietnam
etc

I've been pretty supportive of Trump but I dont like this move. Historically speaking the Turks are some real shit bags. Genocide against the Armenians and other ethnic groups. The Kurds were our boots on the ground so we didnt need to send troops over there That saved American lives, and it wouldn't have killed us to at least secure an agreement with Turkey to hold them to, before pulling out, if thats what we have to do.
The sudden move is pretty bad... sends a bad signal to anyone we need to work with us in the future, and simply..being faithful and honorable to people who have been our friend is the right thing to do. The kurds are one of the most tolerant people in the ME, probably do to all the suffering they have gone through. They dont deserve this. I hope Trump will change his mind.

are we supposed to stay there forever? as people wanted us to in Vietnam?

But you don’t have a problem Trump sending troops to Saudi Arabia to babysit.

The number of US troops in Syria is less than 100 as special operations. Its a small number but it’s a heck of a pay for an allies that helped us fight the ISIS.

we have no business there--still cost $$$$$$
that's what they said about Vietnam=learn some history

 

[Mac1958]

We should have never been in the Middle East, period..

Interesting, though, that Republicans were so gung ho on supporting Bush's wars, ("USA! USA!") and now it's tough to find any of them who will.

Everything changed when Trump got into office. All those hawks instantly became doves, and they think no one notices.
.

 

[JoeB131]

It means that the Kurds are not fighting for us, our cause, THEY ARE FIGHTING FOR THEMSELVES. It just so happens that their enemy is our enemy so we like it when they win. And over the years we have helped them on and off. The sad fact is that they could have won and done even more had we helped them more consistently and even more, but as far back as the beginnings of the Iraq War that I've followed it, that is just the way it is.

The Kurds could have just taken their areas and left it at that, letting ISIL and the various Arab factions fight it out... Instead they were the ones who did most of the heavy lifting fighting ISIL while Bashir Assad waited for the Iranians to save him.

The problem with our policy is that we've never supported a Kurdish homeland, which would redraw the borders but would still be the right thing to do. Autonomous Kurdish enclaves in Iraq and Syria threaten Turkey, so their corrupt regime is taking action.... and Trump is betraying our allies.

 

[JoeB131]

So we should go to war with Turkey?

The Turks were going to move. The 50-100 US troops in the zone they want to control were not going to stop them.

This is the same Turkey which refused to lift a finger when we were fighting in Iraq.

There are a whole bunch of things we could do to Turkey to make it behave itself... but Ergodan got Trump to sell out our allies...

 

[JoeB131]

Those kurds have always been targets, either syria, Iraq or Turkey. The US will still protect a large area of Syria held by the Kurds.

Yes, they are our allies, however parts of their organization also fight against Turkey, one of our other allies, one we have relations with via NATO.

Should we go to war with Turkey over the Kurds?

If it comes to that, we should. Of course, there are ways to Bring Turkey to heal without going to war. Economic Sanctions, suspension from NATO, etc.

Fun to watch the Right Wing Warmongers turn into a bunch of hippies when their Orange Man wants to sell out an ally.

 

[JoeB131]

They weren't enough to stop the Turks from going 30km, but what we have (and could do) is enough to stop them from taking over all of Kurd controlled Syria (and the rest of it, which they probably could do).

They are sufficient to forstal total takeover, but Turkey sees the risk of keeping the fighting on their border as more than the risk of US response to taking over the 30km zone of control.

With the zone of Control, the Army can set any rules it wants for movement in the zone, because it isn't Turkish territory. In Turkish Territory the army is limited by the Constitution to what i can and cannot do on Turkish soil.

a 30km buffer also keeps short range artillery and rockets out of range of turkish soil.

Again these are the reasons the Israelis took over portions of Lebanon in the 80's and 90's.

And how did that work out for them? Did they find that peace they were looking for.

The problem isn't "rocket attacks", the problem is that Kurdish Enclaves in Syria and Iraq might start giving Kurds in Turkey ideas.. you know, that they should have their own autonomy or maybe their own nation.

It doesn't make sense because all you are doing is trying to figure out a way to blame Trump, not actually figure out the complexity of the situation.

The situation isn't complex at all.

In this conflict, the Kurds helped us. The Turks not only haven't helped us despite years of us helping them since the Cold War, but have in some cases actively obstructed us, such as when they refused to let the Third Division move through their territory during the Invasion of Iraq. (The Third ID eventually had to go around through Kuwait and didn't join the battle until later.)

Yes, we are actually blaming Trump for his bad decisions and betrayal of a US ally.

 

[Vastator]

The governments of Korea, Japan, and Germany both condone our presence, and benefit financially, and militarily from it. Syria..? Not so much. Gargantuan difference.

Actually, funny thing. If an American Serviceman breaks their laws, he goes to one of their jails, like the two numbnuts who raped the 12 year old Japanese girl went to a Japanese prison.

Now, because Bush fucked up pretty much that whole region when he invaded Iraq over a lie, yes, we can say the region is not benefiting from our presence. This is making things worse, though. We've told our one ally in the region, "Meh, fuck you, Trump has a Tower in Instanbul!"

So what? None of that has to do with this fact, "The governments of Korea, Japan, and Germany both condone our presence, and benefit financially, and militarily from it. Syria..? Not so much. Gargantuan difference."
Which is actually what were talking about, and handily dispenses the nonsensical claim you offered. Since you'd now like to talk about something else; I'll leave you to it...

 

[harmonica]

The governments of Korea, Japan, and Germany both condone our presence, and benefit financially, and militarily from it. Syria..? Not so much. Gargantuan difference.

Actually, funny thing. If an American Serviceman breaks their laws, he goes to one of their jails, like the two numbnuts who raped the 12 year old Japanese girl went to a Japanese prison.

Now, because Bush fucked up pretty much that whole region when he invaded Iraq over a lie, yes, we can say the region is not benefiting from our presence. This is making things worse, though. We've told our one ally in the region, "Meh, fuck you, Trump has a Tower in Instanbul!"

the region was fine BEFORE Bush???? hahahahahhahahahaha
it's a shithole only one step above Africa
--the Arab-Israeli wars were from 1948 to beyond the 80s
--Lebanon was a big shithole--we sent troops there in 1958 and 1982..and MANY civil conflicts in between
--Pals and Jordan had a ''little'' war [ both Arabic ] 1970s
Black September - Wikipedia
Iran --Iraq war
Iraq invaded Kuwait
coups and bloody coups
etc etc etc
and you have a history degree???!!!! hahahahahhahahahahahahah

 

[JoeB131]

Turkey doesnt belong in NATO.

Probably not. But it was in our interest to include them.

 

[JoeB131]

So what? None of that has to do with this fact, "The governments of Korea, Japan, and Germany both condone our presence, and benefit financially, and militarily from it. Syria..? Not so much. Gargantuan difference."
Which is actually what were talking about, and handily dispenses the nonsensical claim you offered. Since you'd now like to talk about something else; I'll leave you to it...

Yes, I realize that Trump's betrayal of an American Ally makes you guys uncomfortable... but he's been betraying America for years...

 

[Flash]

It’s interesting that folks here think our troops have no business in Syria, yet some of y’all are cool either he idea of Trump sending Troops to protect Saudi from the scary boogeyman Iranians.

You are confused.

Trump has resisted the Iranians efforts to pull us into a conflict. He is keeping up the economic sanctions to denuclearize Obama's Mullah buddies instead of resorting to military. Beats the hell out of Obama's policy to give his Mullah buddies billions of dollars.

Speaking of the Saudis did you vote for that Crooked Hillary bitch? Because if you did she got millions of dollars from them. Both to her campaign and to her money laundering scam charity. Why would you have voted for the corrupt bitch knowing she was owned lock, stock and barrel by foreign interest?

I love the way you Moon Bats are joining the Neocons to bitch about Trump pursuing a policy of non interventionism to undo some of the damage done by that worthless incompetent affirmative action Muslim Obama. It is hilarious.

 

[Flash]

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

It’s interesting that folks here think our troops have no business in Syria, yet some of y’all are cool either he idea of Trump sending Troops to protect Saudi from the scary boogeyman Iranians.

You are confused.

Trump has resisted the Iranians efforts to pull us into a conflict. He is keeping up the economic sanctions to denuclearize Obama's Mullah buddies instead of resorting to military. Beats the hell out of Obama's policy to give his Mullah buddies billions of dollars.

Speaking of the Saudis did you vote for that Crooked Hillary bitch? Because if you did she got millions of dollars from them. Both to her campaign and to her money laundering scam charity. Why would you have voted for the corrupt bitch knowing she was owned lock, stock and barrel by foreign interest?

I love the way you Moon Bats are joining the Neocons to bitch about Trump pursuing a policy of non interventionism to undo some of the damage done by that worthless incompetent affirmative action Muslim Obama. It is hilarious.

Trump sent troops to Saudi Arabia to protect their oil, not Obama...

I don't give a fuck how many times you twist yourselves into pretzels to blame it on the black guy -- The black guy isn't the one sending troops to SA to protect their oil....so fuck what you yapping about

 

[Flash]

[

Trump sent troops to Saudi Arabia to protect their oil, not Obama...

I don't give a fuck how many times you twist yourselves into pretzels to blame it on the black guy -- The black guy isn't the one sending troops to SA to protect their oil....so fuck what you yapping about

You are confused. It must be the TDS mental illness causing your confusion. We see that a lot.

Trump is resisting going to war even after Obama's Mullah buddies attacked American assets. That shows great restraint and the focus to solve a problem through non military ways instead of war. If you weren't suffering from this TDS mental illness you would understand that, wouldn't you?

Quite different than that Obama dipshit bombing Libya for no fucking reason whatsoever, isn't it?

 

[martybegan]

Turkey begins military offensive in Syria, Erdogan announces

Turkey begins military offensive into Syria after US pulled back troops - CNNPolitics

trump will be remembered as the spineless coward who turned his back on our allies....the Kurds....

So here's my question. Per Trump, 100% of the ISIS fighters have been captured.

Who then are the Turks invading Kurdish held Syria to fight?

The Kurdish issue boils down to the Kurds wanting their own country, and Syria, Turkey and Iraq saying "No".

Turkey's issue is that they believe the Syrian Kurds, now that they don't have ISIS to fight, are now helping the Turkish Kurds.

According to Turkey, they are creating a 30km buffer zone of control, similar to what Israel did with Lebanon back in the 80's/90's.

It remains to be seen what they intend to do with any Kurdish fighters in their zone of control, or if the fighters will even remain there, or instead retreat to US aided territory.

The US moved a total of 50-100 troops, probably mostly advisers. They are still in Syria, just outside the Turkish intended zone of control.

There is nothing to support what Turkey is saying. They are clearly going beyond that and killing innocent people. Erdogan is a thug.

Nice of you to finally notice now that the situation can be used to bash Trump, you whiny opportunist prog hack.