Turkey will veto Sweden and Finland NATO membership.

[kyzr]

Yes, and the reason why is the talking point that favours Russia.
No, Russia entered the Donbass with military force in strength that was needed to fight the Nazi Ukrainian element.
Imo Russia can risk the use of a tactical nuclear weapon without America starting WW3. The reasoning should be obvious. But aside from our disagreement on that, it's my opinion that Russia will do just that unless the US allows a partial Russian victory. (ask me for details)

The US absolutely could defeat Russia if either side didn't resort to the use of nuclear weapons. What you're failing to understand is that either side experiencing impending defeat will use nuclear weapons.
Russia will never accept defeat but the rest is probably not true. You're refusing to accept that the sanctions are having minimal effect on Russia now, and it's becoming less as half the world's countries are ignoring the sanctions. Especially the big and powerful counties that count! That's part of the reason why the situation is becoming more dangerous. America may act against a sympathizer of Russia!
And I say that if Nato is subtracted from the equation, it wouldn't make a difference so long as the nato countries support America's war on Russia.

It's not being accepted by Americans that Russia isn't being defeated. The propaganda blitz to shore up support for America's war is many times more intense than in any previous war.

If or when Russia starts to be defeated, everybody will know. This is the reason why I believe that sooner or later Russia will resort to the use of a tactical low radiation yield nuclear weapon.

We'll have to disagree on a response in kind by America.

1. There was no justification for Russia to invade Donbas in 2014, none.
2. Do you have any idea how moronic it sounds to use Ukrainian Nazis as justification for an invasion of Donbas? Then the invasion of Crimea was totally unjustified, no Nazis there. Then the invasion of a democratic Ukraine by the vicious dictator Putin. Face it. Putin's lies just don't work here. They probably don't even work in Russia, that's how stupid they are. Nazis..under Putin's bed...
3. Can you say "desperation"? Losing a land war in Ukraine is really bad, but if Vlad fires off a nuke, whose to say that Ukraine doesn't fire a few back? Where did they come from? Damn. Best not to use them, period.
4. Details? That's called a "peace treaty". Something like Russia gets the fuck out of Ukraine, and the world slowly eases off the sanctions.
5. I'm not sure what effect sanctions are having, but I do know that Russia can't make tanks and other weapons because it can't get computer chips. That's just a start. True, the US and civilized world may sanction countries that help Russia.
6. NATO is not subtracted from anything. NATO is real and is united, and is committed to helping Ukraine defeat Russia. Look at Finland and Sweden, now saying Fuck-You Vlad, we're joining NATO. Like Vlad needed more nukes on his border...good job Vlad!!
7. Agreed Russia isn't being "defeated" but Russia is not winning either. As wars drag on more and more Rubles are being burned, making Russia poorer and poorer. Remember what the USSR breakup looked like? That could happen again.
8. If Russia uses nukes, I'd bet that Ukraine gets nukes to respond...think about it...

 

[Donald H]

Turkey was supplying Ukraine with precision long-range weapons, long before Germany sent some helmets.

The Turkish Drone That Changed the Nature of Warfare

The Bayraktar TB2 has brought precision air-strike capabilities to Ukraine and other countries. It’s also a diplomatic tool, enabling Turkey’s rise.

www.newyorker.com

Thanks for that information, but how is it relevant to what I said? Turkey has threatened in the past to go renegade against America's demands and will use that threat in the future if necessary.

Turkey's Russian air defence systems and U.S. response

Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan this week flagged potential further cooperation with Russia on defence industry projects including fighter jets and submarines even as the United States warned it could respond with more sanctions.

www.reuters.com

Turkey doesn't respond favourably to US threats of sanctions.

 

[ekrem]

Thanks for that information, but how is it relevant to what I said? Turkey has threatened in the past to go renegade against America's demands and will use that threat in the future if necessary.

Turkey's Russian air defence systems and U.S. response

Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan this week flagged potential further cooperation with Russia on defence industry projects including fighter jets and submarines even as the United States warned it could respond with more sanctions.

www.reuters.com

Turkey doesn't respond favourably to US threats of sanctions.

I don't understand you, why Turkey should respond favourably to US threats of sanctions ?
Every US sanction will just motivate Turks to work harder to free itself from US supply-side


Turkey’s arms industry has grown tenfold in the past twenty years, and most of the country’s military equipment is now manufactured locally.

The Turkish Drone That Changed the Nature of Warfare

The Bayraktar TB2 has brought precision air-strike capabilities to Ukraine and other countries. It’s also a diplomatic tool, enabling Turkey’s rise.

www.newyorker.com

 

[Donald H]

8. If Russia uses nukes, I'd bet that Ukraine gets nukes to respond...think about it...

Repeating your opinions doesn't make them any more acceptable or valid.

And I'll bet that if Russia uses a nuclear weapon, the Ukraine will do nothing more than they are currently capable of doing. The decision to respond with nuclear weapons will always be America's alone.

I have no interest in your armchair war ambitions. I'm only interested in stating my beliefs on how this war will develop and hopefully end. That's not meant to be either pro or con for/against either Russia/America.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Why is turkey against Sweden joining NATO?

Erdogan wants a bribe.

 

[Donald H]

I don't understand you, why Turkey should respond favourably to US threats of sanctions ?

Probably because I suggest just the opposite.

Every US sanction will just motivate Turks to work harder to free itself from US supply-side

Not supply 'side' but supply nonetheless. The S-400 missile defense system.

Turkey’s arms industry has grown tenfold in the past twenty years, and most of the country’s military equipment is now manufactured locally.

Yes, and predictably become a nuclear armed power. Thus dispense with Nato and become a neutral as that applies to Russia and America.
Most likely then to become a part of the BRICS alliance.

 

[schmidlap]

Yep. The good news is that Putin put Russia on a very bad economic track.
Russia is losing gas and oil customers, economic sanctions will bite for a long time.
Russia started the war with an economy the size of Italy, its long term economy now looks more like Zimbabwe.
Lets hope that Xi doesn't want any of those economic sanctions hitting China.

Putin's depravity in Ukraine has been a disaster for Russia.

He has succeeded in demonstrating the vita need for NATO, far from "obsolete."

His feeding his lies to his populace will not be able to keep up with the reality. The pervasive grim reality will be too compelling.

 

[Donald H]

Putin's depravity in Ukraine has been a disaster for Russia.

He has succeeded in demonstrating the vita need for NATO, far from "obsolete."

His feeding his lies to his populace will not be able to keep up with the reality. The pervasive grim reality will be too compelling.

Nato is nothing more than a US tool of aggression, bolstered by Article 5. The reason why that's become meaningless is because America doesn't dare tip the balance completely in it's favour. And neither does Russia dare.

It's proven to be the Sitzkreig that preceeds WW3.

Russia has the capability to destroy all Nato countries a dozen times over and will be forced to do so if one member steps out of bounds.

You can believe that America has almost the equal ability to destroy Russia.

The pervasive grim reality you mention applies to Americans equally, if the confidence in the propaganda begins to fail.

 

[skews13]

There is no downside to Finland and Sweden joining NATO.
Erdogan has the veto, but may not use it.
Maybe we can convince him a veto is a bad idea?

Erdogan could use his veto against Sweden and Finland joining NATO

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said today that he is not in favor of Finland and Sweden joining NATO, stressing that Turkey could use its veto as a member of the Western military alliance. "We are following closely the developments regarding Sweden and Finland, but we do not have a...

www.txtreport.com

Yep. Like delaying the much needed upgrades he needs for his F-16 fighters.

 

[Lakhota]

Turkey's leader opposes letting Finland, Sweden join NATO

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan says his country is “not favorable” toward Finland and Sweden joining NATO

abcnews.go.com

NATOs 2nd largest army and America's largest. most important ally will veto Finland and Sweden if they apply for NATO membership.

Doesn't look like NATO alliance has become brittle over the decades when one of the most important members is defying the US and NATO.

The Americans once shit themselves when Turkey bought the S-400s from Russia, lets see the US reaction when a vital ally defies them yet again.

The thread title is a typical NaziCon lie! Turkey MAY veto Sweden and Finland from NATO membership - but it's not a done deal. "Not favorable" does not mean NO - at least not yet.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Maybe it is time to kick Turkey out of NATO
They were never a good fit anyway

Holy shit. A post I actually agree with. It finally happened.

Let’s just trade Turkey for Finland and Sweden and call it a day.

 

[kyzr]

Repeating your opinions doesn't make them any more acceptable or valid.
And I'll bet that if Russia uses a nuclear weapon, the Ukraine will do nothing more than they are currently capable of doing. The decision to respond with nuclear weapons will always be America's alone.
I have no interest in your armchair war ambitions. I'm only interested in stating my beliefs on how this war will develop and hopefully end. That's not meant to be either pro or con for/against either Russia/America.

How do you know that Ukraine didn't keep a few nukes for self-protection?
We have the same goal, to end the war without nukes being used.
Putin needs to find an "off ramp" before things get out of control.
I'd say Russia keeps Crimea, which was Russia's before 1955 until Kruschev gave it to Ukraine.
Donbas? By UN supervised referendum? Or stays Ukraine?
Then the war's over.

Or keep fighting and losing money, men, and influence....

 

[rightwinger]

You must be smarter than that?

From my POV, Canada is more threatened being a Nato member than being protected against some (??) enemy attack.

Canada has always benefited from protection of the US
But they have also provided forces in global conflicts around the world
They are a responsible and dependable ally

 

[Rigby5]

There is no downside to Finland and Sweden joining NATO.
Erdogan has the veto, but may not use it.
Maybe we can convince him a veto is a bad idea?

Erdogan could use his veto against Sweden and Finland joining NATO

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said today that he is not in favor of Finland and Sweden joining NATO, stressing that Turkey could use its veto as a member of the Western military alliance. "We are following closely the developments regarding Sweden and Finland, but we do not have a...

www.txtreport.com

Wrong.
NATO is totally and completely corrupt.
It is the last of the historic colonial imperialists, like Spain, France, England, and the US.
It is corrupt because it does not use the rule of law, blind justice, codified laws or constitutional protections.
It is just greed and desire.

 

[rightwinger]

Wrong.
NATO is totally and completely corrupt.
It is the last of the historic colonial imperialists, like Spain, France, England, and the US.
It is corrupt because it does not use the rule of law, blind justice, codified laws or constitutional protections.
It is just greed and desire.

NATO has served its purpose of keeping Europe peaceful for over 75 years

 

[Rigby5]

How do you know that Ukraine didn't keep a few nukes for self-protection?
We have the same goal, to end the war without nukes being used.
Putin needs to find an "off ramp" before things get out of control.
I'd say Russia keeps Crimea, which was Russia's before 1955 until Kruschev gave it to Ukraine.
Donbas? By UN supervised referendum? Or stays Ukraine?
Then the war's over.

Or keep fighting and losing money, men, and influence....

The Ukraine never had any of their own nukes,
The Soviet nukes stationed in the Ukraine were controlled entirely by Moscow, and only Russians had launch codes.

Since Kyiv was constantly stealing oil, violating treaties, massacring ethnic Russians, trying to join NATO, etc., the ONLY possible "off ramp" now is a totally change of those in power in Kyiv.

But your suggestions might work.
I don't know what Moscow would accept?

 

[Rigby5]

NATO has served its purpose of keeping Europe peaceful for over 75 years

Wrong.
The intent of NATO is to ensure colonial imperialism, as it did by murdering Qaddafi and Saddam, deposing Morsi, and trying to murder Assad.
The main NATO players are the ones who started all the illegal European wars, like WWI and WWII.
NATO is about the worst organization in the world.
NATO pretending the Soviet Union was some sort of threat after WWII, was disgusting.
Russia had lost over half of its male population in WWII.
In contrast, the US lost only a quarter million out of 150 million.

The US had the very smallest death losses in WWII of all, and had a bigger population than any other country involved except China.

 

[eagle1462010]

The Ukraine never had any of their own nukes,
The Soviet nukes stationed in the Ukraine were controlled entirely by Moscow, and only Russians had launch codes.

Since Kyiv was constantly stealing oil, violating treaties, massacring ethnic Russians, trying to join NATO, etc., the ONLY possible "off ramp" now is a totally change of those in power in Kyiv.

But your suggestions might work.
I don't know what Moscow would accept?

LIAR

Ukraine Gave Up a Giant Nuclear Arsenal 30 Years Ago. Today There Are Regrets. (Published 2022)

When the Soviet Union collapsed, Ukraine turned over thousands of atomic weapons in exchange for security guarantees from Russia, the United States and other countries.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Turkey's leader opposes letting Finland, Sweden join NATO

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan says his country is “not favorable” toward Finland and Sweden joining NATO

abcnews.go.com

NATOs 2nd largest army and America's largest. most important ally will veto Finland and Sweden if they apply for NATO membership.

Doesn't look like NATO alliance has become brittle over the decades when one of the most important members is defying the US and NATO.

The Americans once shit themselves when Turkey bought the S-400s from Russia, lets see the US reaction when a vital ally defies them yet again.

So the Turks are playing both ends against the Middle again.

Not a surprise.

 

[Big Bend Texas]

Wrong.
The intent of NATO is to ensure colonial imperialism, as it did by murdering Qaddafi and Saddam, deposing Morsi, and trying to murder Assad.
The main NATO players are the ones who started all the illegal European wars, like WWI and WWII.
NATO is about the worst organization in the world.
NATO pretending the Soviet Union was some sort of threat after WWII, was disgusting.
Russia had lost over half of its male population in WWII.
In contrast, the US lost only a quarter million out of 150 million.

The US had the very smallest death losses in WWII of all, and had a bigger population than any other country involved except China.

Your out of your fucking mind, None of those countries were colonized nor has any country been colonized by NATO or it's member states since it's formation.