Turkey will veto Sweden and Finland NATO membership.

[Donald H]

Canada has always benefited from protection of the US

No, I can't think of a single enemy we've been defended against by the US.

But they have also provided forces in global conflicts around the world

Most of the time yes, but the US reacts against any free countries that don't contribute to it's many wars of aggression.

They are a responsible and dependable ally.

Blackmailed into taking part in your country's wars but the world is changing and other options may be considered in the future. Thank the dog that we chose right on Iraq.

 

[rightwinger]

No, I can't think of a single enemy we've been defended against by the US.

Most of the time yes, but the US reacts against any free countries that don't contribute to it's many wars of aggression.

Blackmailed into taking part in your country's wars but the world is changing and other options may be considered in the future. Thank the dog that we chose right on Iraq.

Canada has never needed to protect itself because it knows the US will protect them. Same goes for Mexico

But Canada does understand it’s role as a global partner and has done their part

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Kick Turkey out.

Deion Playing for the Bears

Putin will catch that punt and return it all the way through the Balkans.

 

[Donald H]

Trump forced jack shit... He compromised himself when he dropped his trousers when meeting Putin and undermining US Intelligence agencies...
He then bitched about NATO spending targets which were meant to be met until 2022.. (it was 2020)...

Trump was considered a liability in NATO and his advisors said he would have probably left NATO if he won a second term

Trump eventually learned that Nato is only a tool of US aggression and then he stopped the stupid talk. However, for whatever Trump's reason for cooperation with Putin/Russia, he would have saved the world this dangerous situation with Russia.

'I think'?
US foreign policy may have made it necessary to eliminate Trump if he didn't get with the program.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Sweden + Finland are not joining because they have big warrior spirit and want to help others defend against Russia.
They are only joining because they currently feel threatened by Russia and want others to help them.
Both nations have decided not to be part of NATO for decades although they could've been.
They've decided for decades to skip shouldering responsibility and burden-sharing.

Pentagony

The Icemen like all the money they can siphon out of the US Defense Department.

 

[Donald H]

How do you know that Ukraine didn't keep a few nukes for self-protection?

Don't be silly.

We have the same goal, to end the war without nukes being used.

Of course.

Putin needs to find an "off ramp" before things get out of control.

Russia has an 'off ramp' and always has. But as we know, Russia is choosing to stay their course. I suspect that they will because they are under no illusions that this is the war with America that's finally arrived.

I'd say Russia keeps Crimea, which was Russia's before 1955 until Kruschev gave it to Ukraine.
Donbas? By UN supervised referendum? Or stays Ukraine?
Then the war's over.

I'm not so confident that America will settle for anything less than complete victory. This is the reason why I believe that Russia will finally show their resolve with the use of a tactical nuclear weapon. On the assumption that a demonstration of strength won't trigger MAD.

Or keep fighting and losing money, men, and influence....

That is the situation facing Russia now and there's no way of avoiding the fact. This is the reason why Russia will be forced to make some choice to end the punishment it's receiving.
Russia has some options I would be willing to lay out for you if you're sincere on having the conversation. I won't invest more time with you unless I feel it's worth the effort.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Trump his advisors said he would have probably left NATO if he won a second term

2000 Mule Team Boris


Anticipating a weak and cheapskate NYETO if Trump could overcome the Glowbullies is exactly why Putin didn't invade while Trump was in office. Now that the One-World Order has regained its American colony, but with a doddering dotard as Proconsul, Putin sees this as the best time to recapture the Ukraine, which had been Russian territory since 1581.

 

[Orangecat]

Maybe we can convince him a veto is a bad idea?

We tend to "convince" with regime changes. Better we mow our own yard before bitching about the guy on the other side of town.

 

[Donald H]

Pentagony

The Icemen like all the money they can siphon out of the US Defense Department.

Your thumbs up or thumbs down mean nothing to me and are mostly just annoying. If you disagree with something I said, it would be helpful to know what?

I'm only telling you that because I consider you one of the few who are capable of discussing the war.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Erdogan wants a bribe.

Assignation With Assad

He wants Kurdistan pacified and Syria no longer hostile. Putin can do that; our Glowbilly rulers can only do the opposite.

 

[rightwinger]

Our problem is that we have always looked at Russia as a modern military force that is an equivalent adversary to the US and NATO

They have proven to be anything but

US military experts watch what is happening in Ukraine and openly mock Russian equipment, personnel, training, and command and control.

They are an inept fighting force incapable of beating a fledgling Ukraine Army. The primary reason is Ukraine is motivated to win and Russian forces just don’t care.

 

[Donald H]

Our problem is that we have always looked at Russia as a modern military force that is an equivalent adversary to the US and NATO

They have proven to be anything but

US military experts watch what is happening in Ukraine and openly mock Russian equipment, personnel, training, and command and control.

They are an inept fighting force incapable of beating a fledgling Ukraine Army. The primary reason is Ukraine is motivated to win and Russian forces just don’t care.

There should have never been any doubt that Russia couldn't fight a war with America using conventional weapons.

The fact that Russia has some conventional weapons that are the equal of America's and also some of superior capability, isn't going to save Russia.

Russia will save itself or the world will go down with them. The reason why I'm sure of that is because I'm capable of weighing the propaganda before accepting it.

First off, understand that this is America's war against Russia.

 

[Donald H]

America's best hope for winning this war is the possibility of Putin not surviving through to the end.

But that is false hope, because this isn't Putin's war. It's Russia's war and others who follow will almost certainly have equal resolve in stopping America.

 

[rightwinger]

America's best hope for winning this war is the possibility of Putin not surviving through to the end.

But that is false hope, because this isn't Putin's war. It's Russia's war and others who follow will almost certainly have equal resolve in stopping America.

It would be Russias best hope of surviving

Putin is bringing them down a path that doesn’t have a happy ending

 

[Donald H]

It would be Russias best hope of surviving

Putin is bringing them down a path that doesn’t have a happy ending

You're stuck at an emotional level and that makes you of no value to the conversation.

 

[rightwinger]

You're stuck at an emotional level and that makes you of no value to the conversation.

Realist

I see a losing bet when I see one
Russia is a losing bet

Putin has no exit strategy

 

[jwoodie]

Whoever Controls Language Controls Thought

That's not what "oxymoron" means. Ironically, you got its made-up and pretentious meaning from the very jurinalists you despise. Anyone who uses their ignorant and dysfunctional grammar is under their spell without knowing it. The correct term for what you're trying to say is "a contradiction in terms."

Close, but no cigar. Although they are generally considered synonymous, an "oxymoron" is a figure of speech in which contradictory terms appear in conjunction, whereas "contradiction in terms" is a statement or group of words associating incompatible objects or ideas.

 

[Donald H]

Close, but no cigar. Although they are generally considered synonymous, an "oxymoron" is a figure of speech in which contradictory terms appear in conjunction, whereas "contradiction in terms" is a statement or group of words associating incompatible objects or ideas.

If you're going to take part in the discussion, don't waste your time.
The hyper-sonic nuclear warheads may have already been launched!

 

[Ringo]

The Finns don't really understand what they've done.
They were an independent country that no one threatens.
Now they have obligations to NATO, they will have to let American bases in. There will be weapons on the bases that threaten Russia.
A political correction will begin.
The US uses the "Russian threat" to establish a regime loyal to itself.
Americans need Finland for the Arctic.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Turkey's leader opposes letting Finland, Sweden join NATO

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan says his country is “not favorable” toward Finland and Sweden joining NATO

abcnews.go.com

NATOs 2nd largest army and America's largest. most important ally will veto Finland and Sweden if they apply for NATO membership.

Doesn't look like NATO alliance has become brittle over the decades when one of the most important members is defying the US and NATO.

The Americans once shit themselves when Turkey bought the S-400s from Russia, lets see the US reaction when a vital ally defies them yet again.

Thing is that Sweden and Finland don't need to join NATO. They're in the EU. If Russia invades, the EU will fight back. The US will supply arms anyway. So..... it's all about pissing Putin off.