Two dead after North Houston parking lot shootout

[2aguy]

I have never said I was for a ban.

So you we just mourning the death of the armed robber?

You're a victims right advocate, thus you advocate for people to be victims?

This is the current events forum. It is an event. I have said many times that while I wouldn't ban them, carrying is probably a bad idea for most. Between Bad defenses and accidental shootings most are better off not carrying. That does not mean I would ban them. I think too many people think a gun makes them safe when often it does the opposite.

Those people use that lie to justify no safety regulations on guns.

However the ONLY way anyone can ban guns is to change the constitution. The second amendment has been ruled by the supreme court that it gives all Americans the right to have guns.

So the only way that right can be taken from the nation is for a new amendment to do so.

They're too stupid to know it takes a super majority in both houses of congress to pass that amendment, the president needs to sign it and even then it's not an amendment. It then has to go to the states to vote on and ratify and it takes a super majority of the states to do so in a set amount of time.

So this lie of theirs about banning guns and taking peoples guns is just stupid.

I will point out that in the last decade or so the courts and congress have given MORE gun rights to the crazy people. No one has banned any guns and more people than ever before have them.

Anyone who actually believes the lies from the crazy right wingers is just as stupid as the crazy right wingers.

No….you ban "assault rifles" you ban magazines over 10 rounds or more, you require excessive amounts of training, and on and on until you have a defacto ban without the trouble of changing the constitution.

 

[2aguy]

And you don't know that till it is over. I have seen criminals murder their victims even after they got what they wanted. So when a robber pulls a gun, you have to be the one to make the decision. The violent sociopath can't be trusted to make the right choice.

He took your advice. Way to go.

He made a decision based on the situation at hand, sadly he gave his life protecting his family….moron.

You are the one giving the bad advice. Moron.

Fuck wit….you want people to be at the mercy of sociopaths….completely disarmed and helpless, hoping things will work out…you are the moron.

Like in wi before concealed carry when violent crime was lower?

5% seems to be the level you need to see a real across the state effect….

On Firearms, Reporting Obscures the Truth

The article notes that there are now 200,000 carry permit holders in Minnesota, or around five percent of the adult population. It also points out that 19% of permit holders are women. In Minnesota, as in a number of other states, carry laws have been liberalized by requiring local authorities to issue permits to applicants who are not disqualified by virtue of, e.g., a felony conviction. The result has been a steep increase in the number of permit holders since the law was changed in 2003.

Whether this has been a good thing or a bad thing is what readers of the article want to know, but the Strib reporter isn’t telling:

Opponents had feared that the law would lead to a surge in shootings and gun deaths. But Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension data show that fatalities involving permit holders are rare. In the past five years, there have been five deadly or nonlethal instances of justifiable use of a firearm by permit holders.

“Deadly or nonlethal” would include all firearm usage, so there must have been more than five instances. In any event, all five instances described in the article are cases of self-defense, and none led to charges against the permit holder. Still, the vagueness continues:

The debate over carrying guns has varied little since permit-to-carry laws became the norm more than a decade ago. Both sides can present statistics and reports to prove their points.

Well, not really. When shall-carry legislation was enacted by the Minnesota legislature in 2003, liberals unanimously predicted that it would lead to a bloodbath. Violent crime, they told us, would skyrocket. But it didn’t happen; on the contrary, the incidence of homicide and other violent crimes dropped steadily.

In the five years ending in 2003, the homicide rate in Minnesota averaged 2.6 per 100,000. In the ten years since the law was liberalized, the rate has averaged 2.0 per 100,000, a 23% decline. Moreover, the rate has dropped further as more carry permits have been issued. In the last five years, the rate has averaged only 1.7 per 100,000, a 35% reduction compared with the 1999-2003 average.

 

[2aguy]

If people like "brain" got their way, the law abiding citizen wouldn't be able to have the gun to protect themselves and their family, and the criminal who is already willing to break the law when they rob someone, will simply obtain a gun illegally.

I have never said I was for a ban.

Every post you post points out that you do…...

 

[hortysir]

I would have given up the wallet....then shot him in the back as he was making his getaway.

That would seem like a better move than a shootout inside a car.

Until the thief decided he didn't want witnesses

 

[Brain357]

He took your advice. Way to go.

He made a decision based on the situation at hand, sadly he gave his life protecting his family….moron.

You are the one giving the bad advice. Moron.

Fuck wit….you want people to be at the mercy of sociopaths….completely disarmed and helpless, hoping things will work out…you are the moron.

Like in wi before concealed carry when violent crime was lower?

You know that they just passed concealed carry. They have to reach at least 5 percent of the population in order to see an effect ….like…Minnesota…where they have reached that point and the crime rate is going down.

Crime rates were going down...

 

[2aguy]

I have never said I was for a ban.

So you we just mourning the death of the armed robber?

You're a victims right advocate, thus you advocate for people to be victims?

This is the current events forum. It is an event. I have said many times that while I wouldn't ban them, carrying is probably a bad idea for most. Between Bad defenses and accidental shootings most are better off not carrying. That does not mean I would ban them. I think too many people think a gun makes them safe when often it does the opposite.

Not true. In a country of 320 million people with over 12.8 million people actually carrying weapons for self defense….only 505 accidental deaths. And close to 2 million crimes stopped by armed citizens each year. You are wrong.

gun murders in 2013….8,454.

The statistics show you are wrong.

 

[2aguy]

He made a decision based on the situation at hand, sadly he gave his life protecting his family….moron.

You are the one giving the bad advice. Moron.

Fuck wit….you want people to be at the mercy of sociopaths….completely disarmed and helpless, hoping things will work out…you are the moron.

Like in wi before concealed carry when violent crime was lower?

You know that they just passed concealed carry. They have to reach at least 5 percent of the population in order to see an effect ….like…Minnesota…where they have reached that point and the crime rate is going down.

Crime rates were going down...

And yet when they started carrying guns for protection, the crime rate did not rise……and the lowering of the crime rate matches allowing people to carry guns for self defense…coincidence….I think not…...

 

[Brain357]

This is the current events forum. It is an event. I have said many times that while I wouldn't ban them, carrying is probably a bad idea for most. Between Bad defenses and accidental shootings most are better off not carrying. That does not mean I would ban them. I think too many people think a gun makes them safe when often it does the opposite.

The event is that an armed robber threatened a man's wife and family with death, the man fought back protecting his family and paid the ultimate price in the process. The hero also ensured that this armed robber will never again victimize anyone.

He was looking to rob, not kill from the story.

And you were there? You know he wasn't going to just shoot after he got the goods….? You should have beamed those thoughts to the people before the father drew his gun….you could have saved lives?

And how do we know who shot first?

Well murder by a stranger is extremely unlikely.

 

[Brain357]

You are the one giving the bad advice. Moron.

Fuck wit….you want people to be at the mercy of sociopaths….completely disarmed and helpless, hoping things will work out…you are the moron.

Like in wi before concealed carry when violent crime was lower?

You know that they just passed concealed carry. They have to reach at least 5 percent of the population in order to see an effect ….like…Minnesota…where they have reached that point and the crime rate is going down.

Crime rates were going down...

And yet when they started carrying guns for protection, the crime rate did not rise……and the lowering of the crime rate matches allowing people to carry guns for self defense…coincidence….I think not…...

Yes it was going down till it was passed, then violent crime went up. I don't think it is the cause, but certainly doesn't lower crime.

 

[Brain357]

I have never said I was for a ban.

So you we just mourning the death of the armed robber?

You're a victims right advocate, thus you advocate for people to be victims?

This is the current events forum. It is an event. I have said many times that while I wouldn't ban them, carrying is probably a bad idea for most. Between Bad defenses and accidental shootings most are better off not carrying. That does not mean I would ban them. I think too many people think a gun makes them safe when often it does the opposite.

Not true. In a country of 320 million people with over 12.8 million people actually carrying weapons for self defense….only 505 accidental deaths. And close to 2 million crimes stopped by armed citizens each year. You are wrong.

gun murders in 2013….8,454.

The statistics show you are wrong.

Pretty sure I'm right.

 

[Brain357]

This one gives more details. Sounds like defender shot first.
Two dead after shootout inside vehicle in N. Houston

 

[hortysir]

This one gives more details. Sounds like defender shot first.
Two dead after shootout inside vehicle in N. Houston

And?
Beats the hell out of shooting second

 

[Brain357]

This one gives more details. Sounds like defender shot first.
Two dead after shootout inside vehicle in N. Houston

And?
Beats the hell out of shooting second

Unless that person wasn't going to shoot.

 

[hortysir]

This one gives more details. Sounds like defender shot first.
Two dead after shootout inside vehicle in N. Houston

And?
Beats the hell out of shooting second

Unless that person wasn't going to shoot.

Man had enough balls to step into another person's car
Also had the fortitude to point gun at woman

Is that a gamble you would be willing to take on SOMEONE ELSES'S life?

The low life asked for "all that he had"
His wife and kid was all he had, and he wasn't going to stand back and let this fucking parasite take them.

No greater love hath he than would lay down his life

 

[Brain357]

This one gives more details. Sounds like defender shot first.
Two dead after shootout inside vehicle in N. Houston

And?
Beats the hell out of shooting second

Unless that person wasn't going to shoot.

Man had enough balls to step into another person's car
Also had the fortitude to point gun at woman

Is that a gamble you would be willing to take on SOMEONE ELSES'S life?

The low life asked for "all that he had"
His wife and kid was all he had, and he wasn't going to stand back and let this fucking parasite take them.

No greater love hath he than would lay down his life

And maybe the guy wanted some valuables as he was asking and then would be on his way. But once shot at of course he was going to start shooting.

Very, very few people are murdered by complete strangers.

 

[hortysir]

This one gives more details. Sounds like defender shot first.
Two dead after shootout inside vehicle in N. Houston

And?
Beats the hell out of shooting second

Unless that person wasn't going to shoot.

Man had enough balls to step into another person's car
Also had the fortitude to point gun at woman

Is that a gamble you would be willing to take on SOMEONE ELSES'S life?

The low life asked for "all that he had"
His wife and kid was all he had, and he wasn't going to stand back and let this fucking parasite take them.

No greater love hath he than would lay down his life

And maybe the guy wanted some valuables as he was asking and then would be on his way. But once shot at of course he was going to start shooting.

Very, very few people are murdered by complete strangers.

Like I asked; are you willing to take that gamble with your wife and kid?

 

[Brain357]

This one gives more details. Sounds like defender shot first.
Two dead after shootout inside vehicle in N. Houston

And?
Beats the hell out of shooting second

Unless that person wasn't going to shoot.

Man had enough balls to step into another person's car
Also had the fortitude to point gun at woman

Is that a gamble you would be willing to take on SOMEONE ELSES'S life?

The low life asked for "all that he had"
His wife and kid was all he had, and he wasn't going to stand back and let this fucking parasite take them.

No greater love hath he than would lay down his life

And maybe the guy wanted some valuables as he was asking and then would be on his way. But once shot at of course he was going to start shooting.

Very, very few people are murdered by complete strangers.

Like I asked; are you willing to take that gamble with your wife and kid?

I don't even carry so sure.

 

[2aguy]

This one gives more details. Sounds like defender shot first.
Two dead after shootout inside vehicle in N. Houston

And?
Beats the hell out of shooting second

Unless that person wasn't going to shoot.

Man had enough balls to step into another person's car
Also had the fortitude to point gun at woman

Is that a gamble you would be willing to take on SOMEONE ELSES'S life?

The low life asked for "all that he had"
His wife and kid was all he had, and he wasn't going to stand back and let this fucking parasite take them.

No greater love hath he than would lay down his life

And maybe the guy wanted some valuables as he was asking and then would be on his way. But once shot at of course he was going to start shooting.

Very, very few people are murdered by complete strangers.

Yes...the people in this story gave the criminals everything they wanted, they were raped, then forced to have sex with each other to ammuse the violent sociopaths, then taken to their atms to get the monsters cash.....they got everything they wanted from the victims.....and then they were all shot in the back of the head....

Do you think they knew how the attack was going to end before they were kneeling in the cold field?

They did absolutely everything the crimianals wanted....everything.....


Wichita Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Carr brothers, 22-year-old Reginald and 20-year-old Jonathan, already had lengthy criminal records when they began their spree based on robbery.[7] On December 8, 2000, having recently arrived in Wichita, they committed armed robberyagainst Andrew Schreiber, a 23-year-old assistant baseball coach. On December 11, three days later, they shot and mortally wounded 55-year-old cellist and librarian, Ann Walenta, as she tried to escape from them in her car; she died three days after the shooting.

Their crime spree culminated on December 14, when the Carrs invaded a home and subjected five young men and women to robbery, sexual abuse, and murder. The brothers broke into a house chosen nearly at random where Brad Heyka, Heather Muller, Aaron Sander, Jason Befort and his girlfriend, a young woman identified as 'H.G.', all in their twenties, were spending the night. They were all working adults: Befort was a local high school teacher; Heyka, a director of finance with a local financial services company; Muller, a local preschool teacher; and Sandler, a former financial analyst who had been studying to become a priest. H.G. is a teacher.

The Carrs initially scoured the house for valuables. H.G. learned of Befort's intent to propose marriage to her when the Carrs discovered the engagement ring he had hidden in a can of popcorn. After the search, the Carrs forced their hostages to strip naked, bound and detained them, and subjected them to various forms of sexual abuse, including rape and oral sex.[7] The brothers forced the men to engage in sexual acts with the women, and the women with each other. They drove the victims to ATMs to empty their bank accounts, before taking them to a snowy deserted soccer complex on the outskirts of town.

There they shot the five execution-style in the backs of their heads. The Carr brothers drove Befort's truck over the bodies and left them for dead.

H.G. survived her head wound at the soccer field because her plastic barrette deflected the bullet. After the killers left, she walked naked for more than a mile in freezing weather to seek first aid and shelter at a house. Before getting medical treatment, she reported the incident and descriptions of her attackers to the couple who took her in, even before the police arrived.

 

[2aguy]

This one gives more details. Sounds like defender shot first.
Two dead after shootout inside vehicle in N. Houston

And?
Beats the hell out of shooting second

Unless that person wasn't going to shoot.

Man had enough balls to step into another person's car
Also had the fortitude to point gun at woman

Is that a gamble you would be willing to take on SOMEONE ELSES'S life?

The low life asked for "all that he had"
His wife and kid was all he had, and he wasn't going to stand back and let this fucking parasite take them.

No greater love hath he than would lay down his life

And maybe the guy wanted some valuables as he was asking and then would be on his way. But once shot at of course he was going to start shooting.

Very, very few people are murdered by complete strangers.

And then there are those who are......do you know which ones they are before they are murdered?

 

[2aguy]

This is the current events forum. It is an event. I have said many times that while I wouldn't ban them, carrying is probably a bad idea for most. Between Bad defenses and accidental shootings most are better off not carrying. That does not mean I would ban them. I think too many people think a gun makes them safe when often it does the opposite.

The event is that an armed robber threatened a man's wife and family with death, the man fought back protecting his family and paid the ultimate price in the process. The hero also ensured that this armed robber will never again victimize anyone.

He was looking to rob, not kill from the story.

And you were there? You know he wasn't going to just shoot after he got the goods….? You should have beamed those thoughts to the people before the father drew his gun….you could have saved lives?

And how do we know who shot first?

Well murder by a stranger is extremely unlikely.

Yeah...except when it happens......then it is a reality...for these people just eating dinner at a Brown's chicken in my state, in the town of Palatine, Illinois....the robbers got all they wanted........do you think the people here wish they could have had guns then.......

Brown's Chicken massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On January 8, 1993, seven people were murdered at the Brown's Chicken and Pasta at 168 W. Northwest Highway in Palatine.[1] The victims included the owners, Richard E. Ehlenfeldt, 50, and his wife, Lynn W Ehlenfeldt, 49, of Arlington Heights, Illinois. Also killed were five employees: Guadalupe Maldonado, 46, of Palatine, via Mexico, the cook; Michael C. Castro, 16, and Rico L. Solis, 17, both Palatine High School students who were working there part-time; and Palatine residents Thomas Mennes, 32, and Marcus Nellsen, 31.[2] The assailants stole less than $2,000 from the restaurant.[3] Two of the Ehlenfeldts' daughters were scheduled to be at the restaurant that night, but happened not to be present at the time of the killing; a third daughter, Jennifer, was later elected to the Wisconsin State Senate.[4]