Two Greatest WWII movies made in 1940's

[Zavulon]

Fast forward to the Cold War where the "USS Bedford" relentlessly tracks down a Russian sub. Similar plot but different ending.

Just watched it. The movie is very cute, despite plastic ice and painted skies, and British rifles on the US Navy ship... But, even in the only sentence they intercepted in the Russian transmission, they managed to make a mistake ("four heils below zero" instead of "four degrees below zero") and the only ship's name they wrote with a mistake "NOVO SIBURSK" instead of "Novosibirsk". The friendly discussion club, organised by the captain on his bridge, was, definitely, also an allegory of American democracy and not actual demonstration of the ship's [dis]order.
And yes, of course, recon sub modifications were faster than the stock ones, but not to 25 knots, and, due much larger crew, had lesser autonomy, but, not 24 hours.
Our school teacher of initial military training was earlier an officer of Pacific Fleet and he used to tell us, little boys, fancy stories about our submarines in Canada's territorial waters. He told once, that Americans are good sailors, but they afraid of ice and prefer to have it in their whiskey, not in the sea around them.

 

[whitehall]

Just watched it. The movie is very cute, despite plastic ice and painted skies, and British rifles on the US Navy ship... But, even in the only sentence they intercepted in the Russian transmission, they managed to make a mistake ("four heils below zero" instead of "four degrees below zero") and the only ship's name they wrote with a mistake "NOVO SIBURSK" instead of "Novosibirsk". The friendly discussion club, organised by the captain on his bridge, was, definitely, also an allegory of American democracy and not actual demonstration of the ship's [dis]order.
And yes, of course, recon sub modifications were faster than the stock ones, but not to 25 knots, and, due much larger crew, had lesser autonomy, but, not 24 hours.
Our school teacher of initial military training was earlier an officer of Pacific Fleet and he used to tell us, little boys, fancy stories about our submarines in Canada's territorial waters. He told once, that Americans are good sailors, but they afraid of ice and prefer to have it in their whiskey, not in the sea around them.

Spoiler alert, in the book the quirky sonar operator finally goes crazy and hits the missiles with a hammer destroying the Bedford. I like the movie version better though. Donald Southerland has a tiny role in the movie. You gotta be a fan of the Russian navy to know that Novo Sibursk is one word instead of two.

 

[Zavulon]

Spoiler alert, in the book the quirky sonar operator finally goes crazy and hits the missiles with a hammer destroying the Bedford. I like the movie version better though. Donald Southerland has a tiny role in the movie. You gotta be a fan of the Russian navy to know that Novo Sibursk is one word instead of two.

Novosib_i_rsk, is one of the largest cities in Russia. It's a center of Novosibirsk oblast and Siberian Federal District. And vowel -o- is connective vowel. If it were supposed to be two words, it would be something like Noviy Sibirsk (but there is no such city). Like we say Belaya Rus' in two words and Belorussia in one (Belarus for short and formal name in Belorussian language)

Novosibirsk - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Zavulon]

But, comparing with other movies, it's not that bad. Say, in Independence Day (1996) they called it Novosyoyrsk

and, on the same picture, they renamed Saint Petersburg back in Petrograd, moved Moscow hundreds miles eastern, and, I think, write the words "Cloud Phenomenon" - "Oblachniy Fenomen" as "Tucha Fznamznon" (I don't know why).

 

[whitehall]

Try to review a movie and you get a Russian geography lesson. O.K.

 

[Zavulon]

Try to review a movie and you get a Russian geography lesson. O.K.

Just mentioned it. No offense.

 

[whitehall]

"In Harms Way" 1965 with a great cast including Duke Wayne, Kirk Douglas, Hank Fonda, Pat Neil and Dana Andrews was loosely based on real events.

 

[Zavulon]

"In Harms Way" 1965 with a great cast including Duke Wayne, Kirk Douglas, Hank Fonda, Pat Neil and Dana Andrews was loosely based on real events.

Thank you. I'll watch it.
Wiki wrote:
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The film holds a 37% rating on Rotten Tomatoes, based on 19 reviews.[10] Bosley Crowther of The New York Times panned the film, observing, "This is a slick and shallow picture that Mr. Preminger puts forth here, a straight, cliché-crowded melodrama of naval action in the Pacific in World War II ..." and characterized it as "a film that is virtually awash with flimsy and flamboyant fellows with all the tricks of the trade of Hollywood."
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I like "slick, shallow, straight and cliché-crowded pictures". May be, because I'm not ready yet to watch something deeper.

 

[Flopper]

"In Harms Way" 1965 with a great cast including Duke Wayne, Kirk Douglas, Hank Fonda, Pat Neil and Dana Andrews was loosely based on real events.

Very entertaining movie.

 

[whitehall]

Thank you. I'll watch it.
Wiki wrote:
-----------
The film holds a 37% rating on Rotten Tomatoes, based on 19 reviews.[10] Bosley Crowther of The New York Times panned the film, observing, "This is a slick and shallow picture that Mr. Preminger puts forth here, a straight, cliché-crowded melodrama of naval action in the Pacific in World War II ..." and characterized it as "a film that is virtually awash with flimsy and flamboyant fellows with all the tricks of the trade of Hollywood."
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I like "slick, shallow, straight and cliché-crowded pictures". May be, because I'm not ready yet to watch something deeper.

NYT's Crowther is hardly an impartial critic of patriotic based movies. In fact he may have been a Communist or at least a liberal socialist activist who hated movies that depicted American war victories. You could interpret his going out of his way to give a bad review to "Harm's Way" as a plus for the movie.

 

[Flopper]

NYT's Crowther is hardly an impartial critic of patriotic based movies. In fact he may have been a Communist or at least a liberal socialist activist who hated movies that depicted American war victories. You could interpret his going out of his way to give a bad review to "Harm's Way" as a plus for the movie.

What critics didn't seem to like about the movie was the personal drama which lacked creative, was rather predictable and the movie was longer than it needed to be. However, the events in war were interestingly portrayed and the battle scenes were exciting. Although it was not Wayne's best performance it was good enough to make it worth seeing, if you like WWII dramas.

 

[whitehall]

What critics didn't seem to like about the movie was the personal drama which lacked creative, was rather predictable and the movie was longer than it needed to be. However, the events in war were interestingly portrayed and the battle scenes were exciting. Although it was not Wayne's best performance it was good enough to make it worth seeing, if you like WWII dramas.

H'Wood "critics" back in the 50's were mostly extreme liberals like Crowther who had a social agenda but Hollywood covers their socialist asses.

 

[Flopper]

H'Wood "critics" back in the 50's were mostly extreme liberals like Crowther who had a social agenda but Hollywood covers their socialist asses.

Both liberalism and conservatism in the 50s was far different than today.

 

[ScorpioRising007]

Casablanca.

One of my favorite films of all time.

 

[whitehall]

Both liberalism and conservatism in the 50s was far different than today.

Yeah but we are discussing critical reviews of movies that were made back then.

 

[whitehall]

"Battle Cry" 1955 based on a book by Leon Uris about Marines in the Pacific panned by NYT reviewer Bosley Crowthar "a tribute to the Marines in a pep rally funster". I rest my case.

 

[Zavulon]

What critics didn't seem to like about the movie was the personal drama which lacked creative, was rather predictable and the movie was longer than it needed to be. However, the events in war were interestingly portrayed and the battle scenes were exciting. Although it was not Wayne's best performance it was good enough to make it worth seeing, if you like WWII dramas.

Yes, movie is nice. While there are questions about haircuts, Jeeps, collar insignias, making X-Ray without removing plaster bandage, etc, it's seems OK. Their social roles in their little personal dramas are simple, clean, understandable, they don't distract attentions from the really important things. Special thanks for the lack of vain attempts to show both good or bad Japs.

 

[Flopper]

Yes, movie is nice. While there are questions about haircuts, Jeeps, collar insignias, making X-Ray without removing plaster bandage, etc, it's seems OK. Their social roles in their little personal dramas are simple, clean, understandable, they don't distract attentions from the really important things. Special thanks for the lack of vain attempts to show both good or bad Japs.

I believe what is critical in most movies is that characters act in a realist manor that fits their character development such as in Battleground. When a director decides to abandon realism in a scene, he is skating on thin ice. However, when it works it can last in the minds of viewers long after they have forgot the rest of the movie. An excellent example in Steve Spielberg's masterpiece, Schiendler's List is the scene with the girl in the red coat walking through the Warsaw Ghetto.

The movie is shot in b/w. In the scene, shabbily clothed men, women and children some waiting and some running hoping for something good but knowing that nothing good is going to happen. Jews are being shot in street as others are forced in buses headed to the camps. In this scene, Spielberg introduces a small girl in red walking through the crowd in sharp contrast to what is happening around her.

"The girl in the red coat is the most obvious symbol in Schindler's List, simply because her coat is the only color object, other than the Shabbat candles, presented in the main body of the film. To Schindler, she represents the innocence of the Jews being slaughtered. He sees her from high atop a hill and is riveted by her, almost to the exclusion of the surrounding violence. The moment Schindler catches sight of her marks the moment when he is forced to confront the horror of Jewish life during the Holocaust and his own hand in that horror. The little girl also has a greater social significance.

The girl symbolizes: the power for change, innocence and hope — hope that injustice can inspire even powerful insiders like Schindler to do good. Those are all things she wants to make real for Ukrainian refugees."
Washington Post

I never enjoyed watching this movie because it was not the kind of movie that one can enjoy but it is film making at it's best. However it was too sad for me. And, yes the little girl in red dies.

 

[Zavulon]

I believe what is critical in most movies is that characters act in a realist manor that fits their character development such as in Battleground. When a director decides to abandon realism in a scene, he is skating on thin ice. However, when it works it can last in the minds of viewers long after they have forgot the rest of the movie. An excellent example in Steve Spielberg's masterpiece, Schiendler's List is the scene with the girl in the red coat walking through the Warsaw Ghetto.

The movie is shot in b/w. In the scene, shabbily clothed men, women and children some waiting and some running hoping for something good but knowing that nothing good is going to happen. Jews are being shot in street as others are forced in buses headed to the camps. In this scene, Spielberg introduces a small girl in red walking through the crowd in sharp contrast to what is happening around her.

"The girl in the red coat is the most obvious symbol in Schindler's List, simply because her coat is the only color object, other than the Shabbat candles, presented in the main body of the film. To Schindler, she represents the innocence of the Jews being slaughtered. He sees her from high atop a hill and is riveted by her, almost to the exclusion of the surrounding violence. The moment Schindler catches sight of her marks the moment when he is forced to confront the horror of Jewish life during the Holocaust and his own hand in that horror. The little girl also has a greater social significance.

The girl symbolizes: the power for change, innocence and hope — hope that injustice can inspire even powerful insiders like Schindler to do good. Those are all things she wants to make real for Ukrainian refugees."
Washington Post

I never enjoyed watching this movie because it was not the kind of movie that one can enjoy but it is film making at it's best. However it was too sad for me. And, yes the little girl in red dies.

Technically, Spielberg got this idea (and it's realisation) from Einzenshtein's "Battleship Potemkin" (1925), in which Red flag was colored manually with paint.


And talking about the symbolism, I'm not sure that red color symbolize innocence. Horrors of the Jewish lifes were significant, of course, but hardly more significant than, say, horrors of Chinese lifes under Japanese occupation (like, say, Nanking massacre) or horrors of Leningrad blockade or Dresden FUBARing. And, however uncomfortable is life of Ukrainian refugees in Europe, and however potentially dangerous is the ressurection of European Nazism they still do not genocide Ukrainian children in Europe. Not yet.
Anyway, I agree, that's much better to stop the Krauts now and build the new system of the equal rights and undivided safety for everyone (including Russians, Ukrainians and Jews).