Two more questions for partisans

[JoeB131]

Okay, but to what end?

Do we agree that being personally attacked will only solidify the views of the person being attacked?

If so, what's the point?

The point is to refute whatever shit these brainless morons heard on Hate Radio before it gains any traction.

Look, if 2008, where almost all of these assholes lost value in their homes and salaries and stock options didn't change their minds, nothing I'm going to say to them is.

 

[Mac1958]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
.

1. impossible
2. What does that even mean, "beat the other side?" Isn't that kinda what everyone does when there are two sides?

I actually got that from people like Limbaugh and Levin, who often say liberalism must be defeated, and their influence is pretty clear. I'd just like to know what that would look like. I don't think I've received a specific response to that so far.

And there are NOT "two sides", as in Left and Right. Wingers remain the minority, and the rest of us are asking them to get over themselves, extricate themselves from their ideological bubbles, and behave like adults.

Hence my sig. The "two sides" are the wingers on each end, vs. the rest of us, the majority.
.

 

[Redfish]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
.

1. impossible
2. What does that even mean, "beat the other side?" Isn't that kinda what everyone does when there are two sides?

I actually got that from people like Limbaugh and Levin, who often say liberalism must be defeated, and their influence is pretty clear. I'd just like to know what that would look like. I don't think I've received a specific response to that so far.

And there are NOT "two sides", as in Left and Right. Wingers remain the minority, and the rest of us are asking them to get over themselves, extricate themselves from their ideological bubbles, and behave like adults.

Hence my sig. The "two sides" are the wingers on each end, vs. the rest of us, the majority.
.

you are correct that the wingers on both sides are the problem. However, the far left wing encompasses most of the democrat party and most of the media, while the far right is a tiny minority of idiots.

The issue becomes the size and scope of the "wings". Fortunately, at present those of us in the middle are still the numeric majority, and I do sense that our numbers are growing.

 

[JoeB131]

What I'm trying to get to is what "beating" the other side actually looks like.

I'll try it from another direction: Is victory a permanent thing, or do you think this will remain cyclical?

I think at some point, minorities and right minded white people will outnumber the inbred, bible-thumping assholes to make gains permanent.

It shouldn't work that way. Conservatism SHOULD have been over as a movement in 2008 when it failed on a global scale.

But the GOP has gotten very good at getting White People to vote against their own economic interests. You know, where millions of them will lose their health insurance and their grandmas will have to move in from the Nursing home because they gave that money to rich people. But Trump's gonna build us a wall to keep the beaners out.

 

[Freewill]

Now that political "discourse" in this country has devolved to little more than personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion aimed at the other "side" -- and I obviously ain't just talking about USMB -- and now that the two "sides" can exist in alternate universes in terms of the "news" they choose to believe, it would be nice to have a template from which the rest of us can view this crippling debacle.

I'm sure we can all agree that the constant use of vicious personal attacks, hyperbole and distortion will not change a person's mind, and instead will almost certainly just serve to strengthen their already-held beliefs. Human nature.

So, two questions:

Would it be safe to say that you're no longer interested in changing the minds of the other side?

Would it also be safe to say that your goal now is to beat the other side, and if so, what would that look like on a practical basis?
.

1. impossible
2. What does that even mean, "beat the other side?" Isn't that kinda what everyone does when there are two sides?

I actually got that from people like Limbaugh and Levin, who often say liberalism must be defeated, and their influence is pretty clear. I'd just like to know what that would look like. I don't think I've received a specific response to that so far.

And there are NOT "two sides", as in Left and Right. Wingers remain the minority, and the rest of us are asking them to get over themselves, extricate themselves from their ideological bubbles, and behave like adults.

Hence my sig. The "two sides" are the wingers on each end, vs. the rest of us, the majority.
.

It appears to me that the wingers on the left are the sane ones. Wingers as defined by being in the minority.

 

[Freewill]

What I'm trying to get to is what "beating" the other side actually looks like.

I'll try it from another direction: Is victory a permanent thing, or do you think this will remain cyclical?

I think at some point, minorities and right minded white people will outnumber the inbred, bible-thumping assholes to make gains permanent.

It shouldn't work that way. Conservatism SHOULD have been over as a movement in 2008 when it failed on a global scale.

But the GOP has gotten very good at getting White People to vote against their own economic interests. You know, where millions of them will lose their health insurance and their grandmas will have to move in from the Nursing home because they gave that money to rich people. But Trump's gonna build us a wall to keep the beaners out.

It never fails to impress me how down right bigoted and racist the left wing can be.

 

[Mac1958]

Fortunately, at present those of us in the middle are still the numeric majority, and I do sense that our numbers are growing.

Well, that would be wonderful, but I'm not so sure.

I'm seeing partisan politics - and its associated behaviors - infecting our society, our culture, on virtually every level. You can't escape it. And (just anecdotally) I'm seeing friends, associates and clients being more and more likely to just lose their shit and start ranting about political stuff at the tiniest opportunity. Holy crap.

I dunno, I hope you're right.
.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

But the GOP has gotten very good at getting White People to vote against their own economic interests. You know, where millions of them will lose their health insurance and their grandmas will have to move in from the Nursing home because they gave that money to rich people. But Trump's gonna build us a wall to keep the beaners out.

Voting against our own interests? You support a party that's on a mission to make you a minority as soon as possible. What could be voting more against your own interests than that???????

 

[JoeB131]

And there are NOT "two sides", as in Left and Right. Wingers remain the minority, and the rest of us are asking them to get over themselves, extricate themselves from their ideological bubbles, and behave like adults.

Hence my sig. The "two sides" are the wingers on each end, vs. the rest of us, the majority.

Your sig is retarded and not reflected in voting patterns.

The thing was, BOTH parties nominated the worst candidates in decades. Yet neither one of them dropped that far below their average for the last six elections.

It's really the middle that is relatively small. Especially since most of the 6 % who voted for third parties didn't vote for "moderates". They voted for extreme left (Stein) extreme right (McCollough) or extreme nuttiness (Johnson).

Now, in a sane, rational world, we would have made the same calculation we made in 1964. "Yeah, LBJ/Hillary is a bit shifty, but he/she isn't nuts like Goldwater/Trump"

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Look, if 2008, where almost all of these assholes lost value in their homes and salaries and stock options didn't change their minds, nothing I'm going to say to them is.

Maybe because unlike you, they studied the problem and rightfully shared the blame with the Democrats instead of running around like a maniac screaming BUSH! BUSH! BUSH!

 

[JoeB131]

Voting against our own interests? You support a party that's on a mission to make you a minority as soon as possible. What could be voting more against your own interests than that???????

Actually, what I figured out a long time ago, is that those people of color are in the same boat I'm in. Their interests, which is not to be fucked over by the 1%, is really the same interest I have.

That you are too racist or stupid to realize this is kind of on you. But it wasn't colored people who won't hire you or give you health insurance. That's other white people who have more money than you do and have priorities like taking Italian vacations.

 

[Redfish]

Fortunately, at present those of us in the middle are still the numeric majority, and I do sense that our numbers are growing.

Well, that would be wonderful, but I'm not so sure.

I'm seeing partisan politics - and its associated behaviors - infecting our society, our culture, on virtually every level. You can't escape it. And (just anecdotally) I'm seeing friends, associates and clients being more and more likely to just lose their shit and start ranting about political stuff at the tiniest opportunity. Holy crap.

I dunno, I hope you're right.
.

I agree that it is very troubling watching what is going on in our country, it appears that the hate mongers are winning at times. The constant demonizing of a duly elected president has never happened to this extent.

There are parallels in history, the rise of the third reich, Mao's rise to power, Stalin and Mussolini, Pol Pot, the Iranian ayatollahs. In every case the would-be rulers controlled the media and the message and engaged in wide spread indoctrination of the masses.

The question is whether the majority of americans will see through and reject it.

 

[Redfish]

Look, if 2008, where almost all of these assholes lost value in their homes and salaries and stock options didn't change their minds, nothing I'm going to say to them is.

Maybe because unlike you, they studied the problem and rightfully shared the blame with the Democrats instead of running around like a maniac screaming BUSH! BUSH! BUSH!

cant tell who you are responding to, please use the "reply" button.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Look, if 2008, where almost all of these assholes lost value in their homes and salaries and stock options didn't change their minds, nothing I'm going to say to them is.

Maybe because unlike you, they studied the problem and rightfully shared the blame with the Democrats instead of running around like a maniac screaming BUSH! BUSH! BUSH!

cant tell who you are responding to, please use the "reply" button.

I did and it's posted as a reply. I don't know what you're looking at.

 

[Freewill]

Voting against our own interests? You support a party that's on a mission to make you a minority as soon as possible. What could be voting more against your own interests than that???????

Actually, what I figured out a long time ago, is that those people of color are in the same boat I'm in. Their interests, which is not to be fucked over by the 1%, is really the same interest I have.

That you are too racist or stupid to realize this is kind of on you. But it wasn't colored people who won't hire you or give you health insurance. That's other white people who have more money than you do and have priorities like taking Italian vacations.

WTF are you stuck in the 1960s?

All of us have the same wants and desires but the government isn't going to supply those wants and desires. That to me is the biggest difference between left and right. Left wants to expand government in some idealistic dream that the government is going to "take care of them" in ways they won't or can't do for themselves.

You acting as if we were still in the 1960s with democrats standing on the school house steps blocking blacks is just damn disingenuous and helps NO ONE.

 

[Mac1958]

Fortunately, at present those of us in the middle are still the numeric majority, and I do sense that our numbers are growing.

Well, that would be wonderful, but I'm not so sure.

I'm seeing partisan politics - and its associated behaviors - infecting our society, our culture, on virtually every level. You can't escape it. And (just anecdotally) I'm seeing friends, associates and clients being more and more likely to just lose their shit and start ranting about political stuff at the tiniest opportunity. Holy crap.

I dunno, I hope you're right.
.

I agree that it is very troubling watching what is going on in our country, it appears that the hate mongers are winning at times. The constant demonizing of a duly elected president has never happened to this extent.

There are parallels in history, the rise of the third reich, Mao's rise to power, Stalin and Mussolini, Pol Pot, the Iranian ayatollahs. In every case the would-be rulers controlled the media and the message and engaged in wide spread indoctrination of the masses.

The question is whether the majority of americans will see through and reject it.

At this point I see zero (0) reason to believe that we'll rise en masse and reject this, because of the very nature of the problem.

The crazed wings have all the passion & energy (due to the fact that they're crazed), and therefore will most likely retain control of the conversation. And if I'm right that more and more people are becoming radicalized, that will only feed on itself.

It's bad enough that the problem has gotten this bad. But worse, when something becomes this deeply cultural, fixing it becomes much tougher.
.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Voting against our own interests? You support a party that's on a mission to make you a minority as soon as possible. What could be voting more against your own interests than that???????

Actually, what I figured out a long time ago, is that those people of color are in the same boat I'm in. Their interests, which is not to be fucked over by the 1%, is really the same interest I have.

That you are too racist or stupid to realize this is kind of on you. But it wasn't colored people who won't hire you or give you health insurance. That's other white people who have more money than you do and have priorities like taking Italian vacations.

If you want to take it to that level, it wasn't whites that cut my property value in half. It wasn't whites that caused our city to build an additional fire station and double our police force. It wasn't whites that caused all the businesses to close up and leave town.

 

[Redfish]

Look, if 2008, where almost all of these assholes lost value in their homes and salaries and stock options didn't change their minds, nothing I'm going to say to them is.

Maybe because unlike you, they studied the problem and rightfully shared the blame with the Democrats instead of running around like a maniac screaming BUSH! BUSH! BUSH!

cant tell who you are responding to, please use the "reply" button.

I did and it's posted as a reply. I don't know what you're looking at.

not on my screen, weird.

 

[Redfish]

Fortunately, at present those of us in the middle are still the numeric majority, and I do sense that our numbers are growing.

Well, that would be wonderful, but I'm not so sure.

I'm seeing partisan politics - and its associated behaviors - infecting our society, our culture, on virtually every level. You can't escape it. And (just anecdotally) I'm seeing friends, associates and clients being more and more likely to just lose their shit and start ranting about political stuff at the tiniest opportunity. Holy crap.

I dunno, I hope you're right.
.

I agree that it is very troubling watching what is going on in our country, it appears that the hate mongers are winning at times. The constant demonizing of a duly elected president has never happened to this extent.

There are parallels in history, the rise of the third reich, Mao's rise to power, Stalin and Mussolini, Pol Pot, the Iranian ayatollahs. In every case the would-be rulers controlled the media and the message and engaged in wide spread indoctrination of the masses.

The question is whether the majority of americans will see through and reject it.

At this point I see zero (0) reason to believe that we'll rise en masse and reject this, because of the very nature of the problem.

The crazed wings have all the passion & energy (due to the fact that they're crazed), and therefore will most likely retain control of the conversation. And if I'm right that more and more people are becoming radicalized, that will only feed on itself.

It's bad enough that the problem has gotten this bad. But worse, when something becomes this deeply cultural, fixing it becomes much tougher.
.

I am hopeful that the recent congressional votes are an indicator that the radicals are losing influence and that sanity is returning. If I am wrong, this country is headed to another civil war, secessions, break up, or worse.

 

[JoeB131]

This is why so many polls showed Clinton winning by large numbers. Such polls purposely dishearten the opposition to the candidate of choice. However, like I said, people are beginning to wake up to the practice. Hence Trump was much more effective than people thought he would be. Why do you think that the media was so surprised? They were carefully influencing the election in favor of Clinton, but they failed to control all of the outlets and it got away from them.

Or the people got it right and the system got it wrong.

I do think the media influenced the outcome, but in Trump's favor.

Let's review-

1) They let Trump have a shitload of airtime, mostly because he was entertaining and good for ratings. They didn't do journalistic due diligence by challenging the things he was saying. Why listen to boring old Jeb! Bush talk about Common Core when Trump will call Mexicans rapists?

2) They promoted the narrative that Benghazi and the Emails made Hillary "Just as bad" as Trump with his pussy-grabbing, race-baiting, hateful nonsense, corrupt business dealings, and obvious signs of mental illness. Because they were being "fair" and "Balanced".

3) Combining the two, when they promoted polls saying "Hillary has this in the bag" that encouraged enough people who knew Trump was nuts but really didn't like Hillary to take the coward's way out and vote for a third party schlub they knew had no chance of winning.

Now, if we had a sane system, like France, we'd have simply gone into a second round and see who got a majority. Instead, 54% of us woke up on Wednesday morning and wondered if the world had gone mad.