Two parties can't govern at the same time

[Mac1958]

The GOP - divided between traditional, pragmatic Republicans and utopian purist Libertarians who have been convinced (by the usual suspects) that they could return America to the Old West - were given the White House, House and Senate. The keys to the country, pretty much.

But while they were able to temporarily combine in November to win more electoral votes, they're demonstrating that two parties can't effectively govern, even when they have insurmountable power.

Where does the party go from here? Do the Libertarians really think they'll pick up more seats now, or are they going to wake up to the fact that incremental victories are FAR better than all-or-nothing defeats?
.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The GOP - divided between traditional, pragmatic Republicans and utopian purist Libertarians who have been convinced (by the usual suspects) that they could return America to the Old West - were given the White House, House and Senate. The keys to the country, pretty much.

But while they were able to temporarily combine in November to win more electoral votes, they're demonstrating that two parties can't effectively govern, even when they have insurmountable power.

Where does the party go from here? Do the Libertarians really think they'll pick up more seats now, or are they going to wake up to the fact that incremental victories are FAR better than all-or-nothing defeats?
.

Actually they can. Not in the US though, as ONE PARTY can't govern at one time. But in other countries, there are parties in junior govt and it actually works.

But then in the US govt isn't about governing, it's about handing out to the rich.

 

[shockedcanadian]

The GOP - divided between traditional, pragmatic Republicans and utopian purist Libertarians who have been convinced (by the usual suspects) that they could return America to the Old West - were given the White House, House and Senate. The keys to the country, pretty much.

But while they were able to temporarily combine in November to win more electoral votes, they're demonstrating that two parties can't effectively govern, even when they have insurmountable power.

Where does the party go from here? Do the Libertarians really think they'll pick up more seats now, or are they going to wake up to the fact that incremental victories are FAR better than all-or-nothing defeats?
.

I question your characterization of the GOP groups. There is nothing pragmatic about government entitlements that will bankrupt the nation eventually, nor are Libertarians looking to return to the Wild West. I think pragmatic requires respect for future generations and their debt burden while fully supporting the Constitution and the American Values that made America so great.

If socialism is creeping into both parties, it's game, set, match for individual liberty the world over. The problem now is what I stated about the two parties were valued shared by ALL parties in America, even independents lol. Ultimately, history will probably show that Bill Clintons push for the Chinese entry into the WTO was most likely he most harmful to American influence and values, but that's for another thread....

Trump understands that it is all about the economy, jobs, and unleashing the potential of the human spirit in these pursuits. Healthcare was purposely created in such a manner t make it nearly impossible to change drastically, while providing no incentive for citizens to forge their own independence. It's a massive entitlement that skews individual obligation and it was never sustainable. That's one massive issue, and with the costs of medical treatment so high, there is no easy solution, that is a certainty.

 

[Mac1958]

The GOP - divided between traditional, pragmatic Republicans and utopian purist Libertarians who have been convinced (by the usual suspects) that they could return America to the Old West - were given the White House, House and Senate. The keys to the country, pretty much.

But while they were able to temporarily combine in November to win more electoral votes, they're demonstrating that two parties can't effectively govern, even when they have insurmountable power.

Where does the party go from here? Do the Libertarians really think they'll pick up more seats now, or are they going to wake up to the fact that incremental victories are FAR better than all-or-nothing defeats?
.

I question your characterization of the GOP groups. There is nothing pragmatic about government entitlements that will bankrupt the nation eventually, nor are Libertarians looking to return to the Wild West. I think pragmatic requires respect for future generations and their debt burden while fully supporting the Constitution and the American Values that made America so great.

If socialism is creeping into both parties, it's game, set, match for individual liberty the world over. The problem now is what I stated about the two parties were valued shared by ALL parties in America, even independents lol. Ultimately, history will probably show that Bill Clintons push for the Chinese entry into the WTO was most likely he most harmful to American influence and values, but that's for another thread....

Trump understands that it is all about the economy, jobs, and unleashing the potential of the human spirit in these pursuits. Healthcare was purposely created in such a manner t make it nearly impossible to change drastically, while providing no incentive for citizens to forge their own independence. It's a massive entitlement that skews individual obligation and it was never sustainable. That's one massive issue, and with the costs of medical treatment so high, there is no easy solution, that is a certainty.

The GOP, writ large, had a choice to make when it won all this power: It could have taken incremental victories, gained positive momentum and built on it, or it could have tried to yank the country in a libertarian direction all at one time. It chose the latter, and predictably, that didn't work. Now the party, with all that power, looks IMPOTENT.

What the libertarian wing of the party just can't seem to understand is that libertarian rhetoric only works on so many people. The "freedom and liberty" platitude, for example, means nothing to people who are struggling and need a hand.

The pragmatic Republicans understand this, but they're attacked as RINOs if they are willing to include government in pretty much ANYTHING.

Okay. That's fine, but the libertarians brought this on themselves.
.

 

[WinterBorn]

They govern as they are told to govern. Whether the people get screwed or not is irrelevant.

 

[Freewill]

The GOP - divided between traditional, pragmatic Republicans and utopian purist Libertarians who have been convinced (by the usual suspects) that they could return America to the Old West - were given the White House, House and Senate. The keys to the country, pretty much.

But while they were able to temporarily combine in November to win more electoral votes, they're demonstrating that two parties can't effectively govern, even when they have insurmountable power.

Where does the party go from here? Do the Libertarians really think they'll pick up more seats now, or are they going to wake up to the fact that incremental victories are FAR better than all-or-nothing defeats?
.

I question your characterization of the GOP groups. There is nothing pragmatic about government entitlements that will bankrupt the nation eventually, nor are Libertarians looking to return to the Wild West. I think pragmatic requires respect for future generations and their debt burden while fully supporting the Constitution and the American Values that made America so great.

If socialism is creeping into both parties, it's game, set, match for individual liberty the world over. The problem now is what I stated about the two parties were valued shared by ALL parties in America, even independents lol. Ultimately, history will probably show that Bill Clintons push for the Chinese entry into the WTO was most likely he most harmful to American influence and values, but that's for another thread....

Trump understands that it is all about the economy, jobs, and unleashing the potential of the human spirit in these pursuits. Healthcare was purposely created in such a manner t make it nearly impossible to change drastically, while providing no incentive for citizens to forge their own independence. It's a massive entitlement that skews individual obligation and it was never sustainable. That's one massive issue, and with the costs of medical treatment so high, there is no easy solution, that is a certainty.

The GOP, writ large, had a choice to make when it won all this power: It could have taken incremental victories, gained positive momentum and built on it, or it could have tried to yank the country in a libertarian direction all at one time. It chose the latter, and predictably, that didn't work. Now the party, with all that power, looks IMPOTENT.

What the libertarian wing of the party just can't seem to understand is that libertarian rhetoric only works on so many people. The "freedom and liberty" platitude, for example, means nothing to people who are struggling and need a hand.

The pragmatic Republicans understand this, but they're attacked as RINOs if they are willing to include government in pretty much ANYTHING.

Okay. That's fine, but the libertarians brought this on themselves.
.

Once again a premise is stated as fact when it is not. Did you really think that rolling back a "benefit" was going to be easy? It is not easy, it is pretty much impossible. I give the Republicans credit for even trying.

It is like you are saying that unless they win every single battle they are impotent. Yet look around, they are winning battles everyday. The SCOTUS will be filled by Trump, that is huge. That is probably why they want to destroy him so much.

Never the less, the media, and now you, are going to paint ANYTHING as bad news for the Republicans. It isn't surprising.

The sad thing is that both you and I know that the ACA needs changed. Yet, you only blame the Republicans for the POS when in fact the democrats still have some power and are true lemmings to the end. ACA might actually destroy the country and the Democrats don't care and all you do is blame the Republicans for not doing what the democrats did to get ACA passed in the first place.

 

[Mac1958]

The GOP - divided between traditional, pragmatic Republicans and utopian purist Libertarians who have been convinced (by the usual suspects) that they could return America to the Old West - were given the White House, House and Senate. The keys to the country, pretty much.

But while they were able to temporarily combine in November to win more electoral votes, they're demonstrating that two parties can't effectively govern, even when they have insurmountable power.

Where does the party go from here? Do the Libertarians really think they'll pick up more seats now, or are they going to wake up to the fact that incremental victories are FAR better than all-or-nothing defeats?
.

I question your characterization of the GOP groups. There is nothing pragmatic about government entitlements that will bankrupt the nation eventually, nor are Libertarians looking to return to the Wild West. I think pragmatic requires respect for future generations and their debt burden while fully supporting the Constitution and the American Values that made America so great.

If socialism is creeping into both parties, it's game, set, match for individual liberty the world over. The problem now is what I stated about the two parties were valued shared by ALL parties in America, even independents lol. Ultimately, history will probably show that Bill Clintons push for the Chinese entry into the WTO was most likely he most harmful to American influence and values, but that's for another thread....

Trump understands that it is all about the economy, jobs, and unleashing the potential of the human spirit in these pursuits. Healthcare was purposely created in such a manner t make it nearly impossible to change drastically, while providing no incentive for citizens to forge their own independence. It's a massive entitlement that skews individual obligation and it was never sustainable. That's one massive issue, and with the costs of medical treatment so high, there is no easy solution, that is a certainty.

The GOP, writ large, had a choice to make when it won all this power: It could have taken incremental victories, gained positive momentum and built on it, or it could have tried to yank the country in a libertarian direction all at one time. It chose the latter, and predictably, that didn't work. Now the party, with all that power, looks IMPOTENT.

What the libertarian wing of the party just can't seem to understand is that libertarian rhetoric only works on so many people. The "freedom and liberty" platitude, for example, means nothing to people who are struggling and need a hand.

The pragmatic Republicans understand this, but they're attacked as RINOs if they are willing to include government in pretty much ANYTHING.

Okay. That's fine, but the libertarians brought this on themselves.
.

Once again a premise is stated as fact when it is not. Did you really think that rolling back a "benefit" was going to be easy? It is not easy, it is pretty much impossible. I give the Republicans credit for even trying.

It is like you are saying that unless they win every single battle they are impotent. Yet look around, they are winning battles everyday. The SCOTUS will be filled by Trump, that is huge. That is probably why they want to destroy him so much.

Never the less, the media, and now you, are going to paint ANYTHING as bad news for the Republicans. It isn't surprising.

It's not my fault the GOP (a) lied to us for eight years, and (b) couldn't get their act together, with all that power, to do what they promised.
.

 

[Freewill]

The GOP - divided between traditional, pragmatic Republicans and utopian purist Libertarians who have been convinced (by the usual suspects) that they could return America to the Old West - were given the White House, House and Senate. The keys to the country, pretty much.

But while they were able to temporarily combine in November to win more electoral votes, they're demonstrating that two parties can't effectively govern, even when they have insurmountable power.

Where does the party go from here? Do the Libertarians really think they'll pick up more seats now, or are they going to wake up to the fact that incremental victories are FAR better than all-or-nothing defeats?
.

I question your characterization of the GOP groups. There is nothing pragmatic about government entitlements that will bankrupt the nation eventually, nor are Libertarians looking to return to the Wild West. I think pragmatic requires respect for future generations and their debt burden while fully supporting the Constitution and the American Values that made America so great.

If socialism is creeping into both parties, it's game, set, match for individual liberty the world over. The problem now is what I stated about the two parties were valued shared by ALL parties in America, even independents lol. Ultimately, history will probably show that Bill Clintons push for the Chinese entry into the WTO was most likely he most harmful to American influence and values, but that's for another thread....

Trump understands that it is all about the economy, jobs, and unleashing the potential of the human spirit in these pursuits. Healthcare was purposely created in such a manner t make it nearly impossible to change drastically, while providing no incentive for citizens to forge their own independence. It's a massive entitlement that skews individual obligation and it was never sustainable. That's one massive issue, and with the costs of medical treatment so high, there is no easy solution, that is a certainty.

The GOP, writ large, had a choice to make when it won all this power: It could have taken incremental victories, gained positive momentum and built on it, or it could have tried to yank the country in a libertarian direction all at one time. It chose the latter, and predictably, that didn't work. Now the party, with all that power, looks IMPOTENT.

What the libertarian wing of the party just can't seem to understand is that libertarian rhetoric only works on so many people. The "freedom and liberty" platitude, for example, means nothing to people who are struggling and need a hand.

The pragmatic Republicans understand this, but they're attacked as RINOs if they are willing to include government in pretty much ANYTHING.

Okay. That's fine, but the libertarians brought this on themselves.
.

Once again a premise is stated as fact when it is not. Did you really think that rolling back a "benefit" was going to be easy? It is not easy, it is pretty much impossible. I give the Republicans credit for even trying.

It is like you are saying that unless they win every single battle they are impotent. Yet look around, they are winning battles everyday. The SCOTUS will be filled by Trump, that is huge. That is probably why they want to destroy him so much.

Never the less, the media, and now you, are going to paint ANYTHING as bad news for the Republicans. It isn't surprising.

It's not my fault the GOP (a) lied to us for eight years, and (b) couldn't get their act together, with all that power, to do what they promised.
.

How can the Republicans "get their act together" when the democrats are never going to change their "act?"

ACA is flawed beyond belief and you expect the Republicans to ride in and change it. I never in a million years thought that would happen. I hoped it would happen but changing a benefit isn't easy and with almost 50 percent in opposition with no chance of changing their lemming ways I don't see it happening.

If the sides were reversed and it were the Republicans who were in the minority I will bet good money you would be accusing the Republicans of obstruction.

 

[Mac1958]

The GOP - divided between traditional, pragmatic Republicans and utopian purist Libertarians who have been convinced (by the usual suspects) that they could return America to the Old West - were given the White House, House and Senate. The keys to the country, pretty much.

But while they were able to temporarily combine in November to win more electoral votes, they're demonstrating that two parties can't effectively govern, even when they have insurmountable power.

Where does the party go from here? Do the Libertarians really think they'll pick up more seats now, or are they going to wake up to the fact that incremental victories are FAR better than all-or-nothing defeats?
.

I question your characterization of the GOP groups. There is nothing pragmatic about government entitlements that will bankrupt the nation eventually, nor are Libertarians looking to return to the Wild West. I think pragmatic requires respect for future generations and their debt burden while fully supporting the Constitution and the American Values that made America so great.

If socialism is creeping into both parties, it's game, set, match for individual liberty the world over. The problem now is what I stated about the two parties were valued shared by ALL parties in America, even independents lol. Ultimately, history will probably show that Bill Clintons push for the Chinese entry into the WTO was most likely he most harmful to American influence and values, but that's for another thread....

Trump understands that it is all about the economy, jobs, and unleashing the potential of the human spirit in these pursuits. Healthcare was purposely created in such a manner t make it nearly impossible to change drastically, while providing no incentive for citizens to forge their own independence. It's a massive entitlement that skews individual obligation and it was never sustainable. That's one massive issue, and with the costs of medical treatment so high, there is no easy solution, that is a certainty.

The GOP, writ large, had a choice to make when it won all this power: It could have taken incremental victories, gained positive momentum and built on it, or it could have tried to yank the country in a libertarian direction all at one time. It chose the latter, and predictably, that didn't work. Now the party, with all that power, looks IMPOTENT.

What the libertarian wing of the party just can't seem to understand is that libertarian rhetoric only works on so many people. The "freedom and liberty" platitude, for example, means nothing to people who are struggling and need a hand.

The pragmatic Republicans understand this, but they're attacked as RINOs if they are willing to include government in pretty much ANYTHING.

Okay. That's fine, but the libertarians brought this on themselves.
.

Once again a premise is stated as fact when it is not. Did you really think that rolling back a "benefit" was going to be easy? It is not easy, it is pretty much impossible. I give the Republicans credit for even trying.

It is like you are saying that unless they win every single battle they are impotent. Yet look around, they are winning battles everyday. The SCOTUS will be filled by Trump, that is huge. That is probably why they want to destroy him so much.

Never the less, the media, and now you, are going to paint ANYTHING as bad news for the Republicans. It isn't surprising.

It's not my fault the GOP (a) lied to us for eight years, and (b) couldn't get their act together, with all that power, to do what they promised.
.

How can the Republicans "get their act together" when the democrats are never going to change their "act?"

ACA is flawed beyond belief and you expect the Republicans to ride in and change it. I never in a million years thought that would happen. I hoped it would happen but changing a benefit isn't easy and with almost 50 percent in opposition with no chance of changing their lemming ways I don't see it happening.

If the sides were reversed and it were the Republicans who were in the minority I will bet good money you would be accusing the Republicans of obstruction.

Actually, you don't see me accusing anyone of obstruction. I'm saying what I said: The GOP is essentially two parties, and it currently can't govern.

The conservative talk radio wing of the party somehow hasn't yet figured out that purity doesn't fly in politics. That's not my fault, either.
.

 

[Freewill]

I question your characterization of the GOP groups. There is nothing pragmatic about government entitlements that will bankrupt the nation eventually, nor are Libertarians looking to return to the Wild West. I think pragmatic requires respect for future generations and their debt burden while fully supporting the Constitution and the American Values that made America so great.

If socialism is creeping into both parties, it's game, set, match for individual liberty the world over. The problem now is what I stated about the two parties were valued shared by ALL parties in America, even independents lol. Ultimately, history will probably show that Bill Clintons push for the Chinese entry into the WTO was most likely he most harmful to American influence and values, but that's for another thread....

Trump understands that it is all about the economy, jobs, and unleashing the potential of the human spirit in these pursuits. Healthcare was purposely created in such a manner t make it nearly impossible to change drastically, while providing no incentive for citizens to forge their own independence. It's a massive entitlement that skews individual obligation and it was never sustainable. That's one massive issue, and with the costs of medical treatment so high, there is no easy solution, that is a certainty.

The GOP, writ large, had a choice to make when it won all this power: It could have taken incremental victories, gained positive momentum and built on it, or it could have tried to yank the country in a libertarian direction all at one time. It chose the latter, and predictably, that didn't work. Now the party, with all that power, looks IMPOTENT.

What the libertarian wing of the party just can't seem to understand is that libertarian rhetoric only works on so many people. The "freedom and liberty" platitude, for example, means nothing to people who are struggling and need a hand.

The pragmatic Republicans understand this, but they're attacked as RINOs if they are willing to include government in pretty much ANYTHING.

Okay. That's fine, but the libertarians brought this on themselves.
.

Once again a premise is stated as fact when it is not. Did you really think that rolling back a "benefit" was going to be easy? It is not easy, it is pretty much impossible. I give the Republicans credit for even trying.

It is like you are saying that unless they win every single battle they are impotent. Yet look around, they are winning battles everyday. The SCOTUS will be filled by Trump, that is huge. That is probably why they want to destroy him so much.

Never the less, the media, and now you, are going to paint ANYTHING as bad news for the Republicans. It isn't surprising.

It's not my fault the GOP (a) lied to us for eight years, and (b) couldn't get their act together, with all that power, to do what they promised.
.

How can the Republicans "get their act together" when the democrats are never going to change their "act?"

ACA is flawed beyond belief and you expect the Republicans to ride in and change it. I never in a million years thought that would happen. I hoped it would happen but changing a benefit isn't easy and with almost 50 percent in opposition with no chance of changing their lemming ways I don't see it happening.

If the sides were reversed and it were the Republicans who were in the minority I will bet good money you would be accusing the Republicans of obstruction.

Actually, you don't see me accusing anyone of obstruction. I'm saying what I said: The GOP is essentially two parties, and it currently can't govern.

The conservative talk radio wing of the party somehow hasn't yet figured out that purity doesn't fly in politics. That's not my fault, either.
.

NO, if the democrats were the ones trying to change ACA and the Republicans opposed them then you would be accusing the Republicans of obstruction, I see the trend but apparently you do not.

As I said, it is the democrats you should be showering your angst. They created the monster and vote to preserve the monster, just because. Of course the Republican party is not just one big lemming of a party as are the Democrats.

You should be pissed at the Democrats for not willing to work to change a bill we know is destroying the country. Not the Republicans because you think they should walk in lock step like Democrats.

 

[Mac1958]

The GOP, writ large, had a choice to make when it won all this power: It could have taken incremental victories, gained positive momentum and built on it, or it could have tried to yank the country in a libertarian direction all at one time. It chose the latter, and predictably, that didn't work. Now the party, with all that power, looks IMPOTENT.

What the libertarian wing of the party just can't seem to understand is that libertarian rhetoric only works on so many people. The "freedom and liberty" platitude, for example, means nothing to people who are struggling and need a hand.

The pragmatic Republicans understand this, but they're attacked as RINOs if they are willing to include government in pretty much ANYTHING.

Okay. That's fine, but the libertarians brought this on themselves.
.

Once again a premise is stated as fact when it is not. Did you really think that rolling back a "benefit" was going to be easy? It is not easy, it is pretty much impossible. I give the Republicans credit for even trying.

It is like you are saying that unless they win every single battle they are impotent. Yet look around, they are winning battles everyday. The SCOTUS will be filled by Trump, that is huge. That is probably why they want to destroy him so much.

Never the less, the media, and now you, are going to paint ANYTHING as bad news for the Republicans. It isn't surprising.

It's not my fault the GOP (a) lied to us for eight years, and (b) couldn't get their act together, with all that power, to do what they promised.
.

How can the Republicans "get their act together" when the democrats are never going to change their "act?"

ACA is flawed beyond belief and you expect the Republicans to ride in and change it. I never in a million years thought that would happen. I hoped it would happen but changing a benefit isn't easy and with almost 50 percent in opposition with no chance of changing their lemming ways I don't see it happening.

If the sides were reversed and it were the Republicans who were in the minority I will bet good money you would be accusing the Republicans of obstruction.

Actually, you don't see me accusing anyone of obstruction. I'm saying what I said: The GOP is essentially two parties, and it currently can't govern.

The conservative talk radio wing of the party somehow hasn't yet figured out that purity doesn't fly in politics. That's not my fault, either.
.

NO, if the democrats were the ones trying to change ACA and the Republicans opposed them then you would be accusing the Republicans of obstruction, I see the trend but apparently you do not.

As I said, it is the democrats you should be showering your angst. They created the monster and vote to preserve the monster, just because. Of course the Republican party is not just one big lemming of a party as are the Democrats.

You should be pissed at the Democrats for not willing to work to change a bill we know is destroying the country. Not the Republicans because you think they should walk in lock step like Democrats.

The GOP can do what it wants.

What I want, as I've said a zillion times, is an expansion of the current Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage public/private partnership that is already up and running. And, as I've said, both parties have failed us.

But deflecting from my original point doesn't change my original point.
.

 

[rightwinger]

The GOP - divided between traditional, pragmatic Republicans and utopian purist Libertarians who have been convinced (by the usual suspects) that they could return America to the Old West - were given the White House, House and Senate. The keys to the country, pretty much.

But while they were able to temporarily combine in November to win more electoral votes, they're demonstrating that two parties can't effectively govern, even when they have insurmountable power.

Where does the party go from here? Do the Libertarians really think they'll pick up more seats now, or are they going to wake up to the fact that incremental victories are FAR better than all-or-nothing defeats?
.

The Dems were a fractured party after WWII with Liberals in the North and Conservatives in the South. They were able to get things done because they embraced the concept of COMPROMISE

With the rightwing media attacking compromise as weakness, todays Republicans are unable and unwilling to waiver from their entrenched positions. The disaster of Trumpcare shows how inept they are at governing. McConnell doesn't even try to find a middle ground as he panders to the right. Even though McConnell offered some of what the right was demanding....they revolted because they did not get everything they demanded

 

[Freewill]

Once again a premise is stated as fact when it is not. Did you really think that rolling back a "benefit" was going to be easy? It is not easy, it is pretty much impossible. I give the Republicans credit for even trying.

It is like you are saying that unless they win every single battle they are impotent. Yet look around, they are winning battles everyday. The SCOTUS will be filled by Trump, that is huge. That is probably why they want to destroy him so much.

Never the less, the media, and now you, are going to paint ANYTHING as bad news for the Republicans. It isn't surprising.

It's not my fault the GOP (a) lied to us for eight years, and (b) couldn't get their act together, with all that power, to do what they promised.
.

How can the Republicans "get their act together" when the democrats are never going to change their "act?"

ACA is flawed beyond belief and you expect the Republicans to ride in and change it. I never in a million years thought that would happen. I hoped it would happen but changing a benefit isn't easy and with almost 50 percent in opposition with no chance of changing their lemming ways I don't see it happening.

If the sides were reversed and it were the Republicans who were in the minority I will bet good money you would be accusing the Republicans of obstruction.

Actually, you don't see me accusing anyone of obstruction. I'm saying what I said: The GOP is essentially two parties, and it currently can't govern.

The conservative talk radio wing of the party somehow hasn't yet figured out that purity doesn't fly in politics. That's not my fault, either.
.

NO, if the democrats were the ones trying to change ACA and the Republicans opposed them then you would be accusing the Republicans of obstruction, I see the trend but apparently you do not.

As I said, it is the democrats you should be showering your angst. They created the monster and vote to preserve the monster, just because. Of course the Republican party is not just one big lemming of a party as are the Democrats.

You should be pissed at the Democrats for not willing to work to change a bill we know is destroying the country. Not the Republicans because you think they should walk in lock step like Democrats.

The GOP can do what it wants.

What I want, as I've said a zillion times, is an expansion of the current Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage public/private partnership that is already up and running. And, as I've said, both parties have failed us.

But deflecting from my original point doesn't change my original point.
.

I think we actually do agree on the expansion. But I never expected the Republicans to be in lock step, nor am I sure I want them to be. After all that is how we ended up with ACA in the first place. I don't want a partisan bill, it will once again suck.

What I would like is what you posted, I think it could be made to work very well but I am not sure that is what the Republican's bill proposed.

You are right, they were not ready after 8 years, for that they deserve condemnation.

 

[Mac1958]

It's not my fault the GOP (a) lied to us for eight years, and (b) couldn't get their act together, with all that power, to do what they promised.
.

How can the Republicans "get their act together" when the democrats are never going to change their "act?"

ACA is flawed beyond belief and you expect the Republicans to ride in and change it. I never in a million years thought that would happen. I hoped it would happen but changing a benefit isn't easy and with almost 50 percent in opposition with no chance of changing their lemming ways I don't see it happening.

If the sides were reversed and it were the Republicans who were in the minority I will bet good money you would be accusing the Republicans of obstruction.

Actually, you don't see me accusing anyone of obstruction. I'm saying what I said: The GOP is essentially two parties, and it currently can't govern.

The conservative talk radio wing of the party somehow hasn't yet figured out that purity doesn't fly in politics. That's not my fault, either.
.

NO, if the democrats were the ones trying to change ACA and the Republicans opposed them then you would be accusing the Republicans of obstruction, I see the trend but apparently you do not.

As I said, it is the democrats you should be showering your angst. They created the monster and vote to preserve the monster, just because. Of course the Republican party is not just one big lemming of a party as are the Democrats.

You should be pissed at the Democrats for not willing to work to change a bill we know is destroying the country. Not the Republicans because you think they should walk in lock step like Democrats.

The GOP can do what it wants.

What I want, as I've said a zillion times, is an expansion of the current Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage public/private partnership that is already up and running. And, as I've said, both parties have failed us.

But deflecting from my original point doesn't change my original point.
.

I think we actually do agree on the expansion. But I never expected the Republicans to be in lock step, nor am I sure I want them to be. After all that is how we ended up with ACA in the first place. I don't want a partisan bill, it will once again suck.

What I would like is what you posted, I think it could be made to work very well but I am not sure that is what the Republican's bill proposed.

You are right, they were not ready after 8 years, for that they deserve condemnation.

Marching in lockstep may not be terribly principled, but it does get stuff done. My main point is that, if I were a partisan, incremental victories would be better than principled losses.

Also, there's no way the GOP could go in the direction that I'd like. That would be far too much government for the more conservative Republicans.
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[Norman]

The GOP - divided between traditional, pragmatic Republicans and utopian purist Libertarians who have been convinced (by the usual suspects) that they could return America to the Old West - were given the White House, House and Senate. The keys to the country, pretty much.

But while they were able to temporarily combine in November to win more electoral votes, they're demonstrating that two parties can't effectively govern, even when they have insurmountable power.

Where does the party go from here? Do the Libertarians really think they'll pick up more seats now, or are they going to wake up to the fact that incremental victories are FAR better than all-or-nothing defeats?
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USA is not a dictatorship, thank god... diversity of opinion all the way.

I have no idea what you mean by libertarians, there aren't many libertarians in government, in addition to Paul's I can hardly think of anyone.

The anti-Trumper Rhinos and Neocon shills are a problem though. As far as traditionalism goes, technology overcame it, so they will loose.