U.K. Trial Court: Lying About Vasectomy Negates Consent to Sex

[Vastator]

The profit she takes in from her misdeed is hardly the crux of the matter. Merely one aspect.

I think what he's getting at is that it's a mite more intrusive to impregnate a woman by lying than for her to get impregnated by lying.

Says you.

So you would claim that writing a check every month for 20 years is more intrusive than raising a baby to toddler to school student? Surely you are not that daft.

Daft has nothing to do with it. Maybe the man didn’t want to father her child. Maybe he didn’t want his existing children to have bastard siblings. Maybe cutting the deceitful woman a check every month for 20 years diminishes his quality of life, and the quality of life for his children that he intended to sire. And all of this is granting you carte Blanche that the deceiving woman is allowed to keep the child as opposed to the man getting custody if he wants it. That is a whole nother argument...
In short who are you to place a value of her inconvenience above his; especially when he was defrauded. Looks like “equality mobile” is sputtering out...

Not at all. I have said every time you brought it up that I am fine with both being prosecuted. I am simply saying that, all things being equal, the greater burden is on the woman. And all the man has to do to prevent it is wear a condom. Which considering the rampant STDs out there, is a good idea anyway.

The burden on the woman is no greater than the man, for your simply declaring to be so.

 

[Vastator]

And as long as women can earn a 20 year payday without being charged for a crime; they’ll continue to lie about birth control. The threat of punishment is what many of them need.

But let's be real, what most men pay in child support is not going to be income for her as much as it will be helping cover the cost of raising a child.

from: What is the average child support payment?
"But on average, the latest statistic we have available comes from the 2010 Census. According to the Census Bureau Reports, the average monthly child support payment is $430."

from: Parents, save up: It costs this much to raise a kid
"The estimated cost of raising a child from birth through age 17 is $233,610 -- or as much as almost $14,000 annually, the Department of Agriculture says. That’s the average for a middle-income couple with two children. It’s a bit more expensive in urban parts of the country, and less so in rural areas."

$430 a month comes to $5,160 a year. So $103,200 for 20 years. Less than half the estimated cost of raising the child. Even if you double the child support, you are only paying $10,320 a year. That comes to $206,400 for 20 years. Still not hitting the cost. So calling it an income for her is simply inaccurate.

Plus, paying child support is inconvenient and perhaps a financial burden. Raising a child for 20 years is a complete change for her life.

The profit she takes in from her misdeed is hardly the crux of the matter. Merely one aspect.

I was simply addressing your comment "And as long as women can earn a 20 year payday without being charged for a crime; they’ll continue to lie about birth control.". I showed ample evidence that it is not a payday.

And the heavier risk is on her. The profound change in her life is much greater than his. And to risk that, simply because you want to get laid, is crimiinal for him.

None the less, it happens all the time. And often times money is what the offenders also consider. Any other “hardships” you credit her for bearing are rendered null and void in instances where her deceit caused it, as it is self inflicted.

And he, by taking her word for it, puts himself open for both an unwanted child and a long list of STDs.

Men should wear a condom whenever they fuck someone for sport.

Agreed. But the same must apply to women in order to be pricipled insofar as equality is concerned. Yet I haven’t heard much in the way of support, or insistance that women who do the same (and many do) be vigorously pursued, and equally prosecuted.

 

[WinterBorn]

But let's be real, what most men pay in child support is not going to be income for her as much as it will be helping cover the cost of raising a child.

from: What is the average child support payment?
"But on average, the latest statistic we have available comes from the 2010 Census. According to the Census Bureau Reports, the average monthly child support payment is $430."

from: Parents, save up: It costs this much to raise a kid
"The estimated cost of raising a child from birth through age 17 is $233,610 -- or as much as almost $14,000 annually, the Department of Agriculture says. That’s the average for a middle-income couple with two children. It’s a bit more expensive in urban parts of the country, and less so in rural areas."

$430 a month comes to $5,160 a year. So $103,200 for 20 years. Less than half the estimated cost of raising the child. Even if you double the child support, you are only paying $10,320 a year. That comes to $206,400 for 20 years. Still not hitting the cost. So calling it an income for her is simply inaccurate.

Plus, paying child support is inconvenient and perhaps a financial burden. Raising a child for 20 years is a complete change for her life.

The profit she takes in from her misdeed is hardly the crux of the matter. Merely one aspect.

I was simply addressing your comment "And as long as women can earn a 20 year payday without being charged for a crime; they’ll continue to lie about birth control.". I showed ample evidence that it is not a payday.

And the heavier risk is on her. The profound change in her life is much greater than his. And to risk that, simply because you want to get laid, is crimiinal for him.

None the less, it happens all the time. And often times money is what the offenders also consider. Any other “hardships” you credit her for bearing are rendered null and void in instances where her deceit caused it, as it is self inflicted.

And he, by taking her word for it, puts himself open for both an unwanted child and a long list of STDs.

Men should wear a condom whenever they fuck someone for sport.

Agreed. But the same must apply to women in order to beprincied, insofar as equality is concerned. Yet I haven’t heard much in the way of support, or insistance that women who do the same (and many do) be vigorously pursued, and equally prosecuted.

Perhaps it is because it was not the topic? I am not saying there are not women out there tricking men into getting them pregnant.

 

[Vastator]

The profit she takes in from her misdeed is hardly the crux of the matter. Merely one aspect.

I was simply addressing your comment "And as long as women can earn a 20 year payday without being charged for a crime; they’ll continue to lie about birth control.". I showed ample evidence that it is not a payday.

And the heavier risk is on her. The profound change in her life is much greater than his. And to risk that, simply because you want to get laid, is crimiinal for him.

None the less, it happens all the time. And often times money is what the offenders also consider. Any other “hardships” you credit her for bearing are rendered null and void in instances where her deceit caused it, as it is self inflicted.

And he, by taking her word for it, puts himself open for both an unwanted child and a long list of STDs.

Men should wear a condom whenever they fuck someone for sport.

Agreed. But the same must apply to women in order to beprincied, insofar as equality is concerned. Yet I haven’t heard much in the way of support, or insistance that women who do the same (and many do) be vigorously pursued, and equally prosecuted.

Perhaps it is because it was not the topic? I am not saying there are not women out there tricking men into getting them pregnant.

It is a relevant take on the topic. Especially when one considers many of the punitive measures, suggested by our fellow board members, in regards to dealing with a male offender. So... I find it interesting to hear how the tune changes when the roles are reversed. For many posters the tune didn’t merely change; the music stopped altogether. Kinda interesting really...

 

[WinterBorn]

I think what he's getting at is that it's a mite more intrusive to impregnate a woman by lying than for her to get impregnated by lying.

Says you.

So you would claim that writing a check every month for 20 years is more intrusive than raising a baby to toddler to school student? Surely you are not that daft.

Daft has nothing to do with it. Maybe the man didn’t want to father her child. Maybe he didn’t want his existing children to have bastard siblings. Maybe cutting the deceitful woman a check every month for 20 years diminishes his quality of life, and the quality of life for his children that he intended to sire. And all of this is granting you carte Blanche that the deceiving woman is allowed to keep the child as opposed to the man getting custody if he wants it. That is a whole nother argument...
In short who are you to place a value of her inconvenience above his; especially when he was defrauded. Looks like “equality mobile” is sputtering out...

Not at all. I have said every time you brought it up that I am fine with both being prosecuted. I am simply saying that, all things being equal, the greater burden is on the woman. And all the man has to do to prevent it is wear a condom. Which considering the rampant STDs out there, is a good idea anyway.

The burden on the woman is no greater than the man, for your simply declaring to be so.

No, it is not greater simply because I say so. I have raised children. I know what it takes. Certainly more than it takes to earn $430 a month. Hell, minimum wage is $7.25. Which at 40 hours a week and a 4 week month comes to $1,160. If you think you can raise a child with only 40 hours of effort, you need to try it sometime.

 

[WinterBorn]

I was simply addressing your comment "And as long as women can earn a 20 year payday without being charged for a crime; they’ll continue to lie about birth control.". I showed ample evidence that it is not a payday.

And the heavier risk is on her. The profound change in her life is much greater than his. And to risk that, simply because you want to get laid, is crimiinal for him.

None the less, it happens all the time. And often times money is what the offenders also consider. Any other “hardships” you credit her for bearing are rendered null and void in instances where her deceit caused it, as it is self inflicted.

And he, by taking her word for it, puts himself open for both an unwanted child and a long list of STDs.

Men should wear a condom whenever they fuck someone for sport.

Agreed. But the same must apply to women in order to beprincied, insofar as equality is concerned. Yet I haven’t heard much in the way of support, or insistance that women who do the same (and many do) be vigorously pursued, and equally prosecuted.

Perhaps it is because it was not the topic? I am not saying there are not women out there tricking men into getting them pregnant.

It is a relevant take on the topic. Especially when one considers many of the punitive measures, suggested by our fellow board members, in regards to dealing with a male offender. So... I find it interesting to hear how the tune changes when the roles are reversed. For many posters the tune didn’t merely change; the music stopped altogether. Kinda interesting really...

If a woman is trying to trap a man, she is looking at a long term, drastic change in her life. What this man did was a cheap, dirty trick just to get laid. I think there is a difference.

There is a term called "stealthy", which refers to the man removing the condom during sex. That is strictly for a few minutes of pleasure. I have never heard of any female equivalent.

 

[Vastator]

Says you.

So you would claim that writing a check every month for 20 years is more intrusive than raising a baby to toddler to school student? Surely you are not that daft.

Daft has nothing to do with it. Maybe the man didn’t want to father her child. Maybe he didn’t want his existing children to have bastard siblings. Maybe cutting the deceitful woman a check every month for 20 years diminishes his quality of life, and the quality of life for his children that he intended to sire. And all of this is granting you carte Blanche that the deceiving woman is allowed to keep the child as opposed to the man getting custody if he wants it. That is a whole nother argument...
In short who are you to place a value of her inconvenience above his; especially when he was defrauded. Looks like “equality mobile” is sputtering out...

Not at all. I have said every time you brought it up that I am fine with both being prosecuted. I am simply saying that, all things being equal, the greater burden is on the woman. And all the man has to do to prevent it is wear a condom. Which considering the rampant STDs out there, is a good idea anyway.

The burden on the woman is no greater than the man, for your simply declaring to be so.

No, it is not greater simply because I say so. I have raised children. I know what it takes. Certainly more than it takes to earn $430 a month. Hell, minimum wage is $7.25. Which at 40 hours a week and a 4 week month comes to $1,160. If you think you can raise a child with only 40 hours of effort, you need to try it sometime.

I’ve been raising mine, so you’re not telling me anything I don’t know. But when it’s self inflicted I give no pity. And knowing many divorcees I know for a fact that single mothers are heavily subsidized by us taxpayers, father or not. No one is subsidizing a man who has been extorted by a woman who lied about her birth control. In point of fact... If he doesn’t, or can’t pay up he also goes to jail, and gets a criminal record. So let’s not pretend these women have it so hard, and the men move on care free afterwards. Because that’s hardly the truth of the matter. Till that child reaches the age of majority that man will constantly have that gun to his head. And that’s not merely figurative.

 

[Disir]

Jason Lawrance is many online dating users' worst nightmare. The British father-of-three met a number of women on Match.com that he went on to sexually attack, for which he received a life sentence in 2016 (which actually means he will spend at least 12.5 years in prison). In addition to being punished for his violent crimes, the serial sexual predator also got convicted for a more unique reason: he lied to a woman about having had a vasectomy before having sex with her, which resulted in her becoming pregnant and having an abortion.

U.K. Trial Court: Lying About Vasectomy Negates Consent to Sex

Can you imagine how that would go down in the States?

I'm curious as to how and why you think it would be different.

First of all it's a bit lopsided. From the standpoint of domestic violence reproductive coercion is real and there are other warning signs. There are other factors in play. Domestic violence is a criminal charge. You encounter that with physical abuse. Protective orders are utilized even when there isn't a criminal charge.

In the UK that is a held to be sexual assault---a criminal charge. And it's straight up fraud. In the States Paternity cases are in civil courts, child support or family courts where the children have been removed from the home. So, I can see a large shift from civil courts to criminal courts. Plenty of new sexual assault charges. Sex offender registries balloon. Because that fraud is perpetrated by women as well.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Much more than that. The woman will be expected to drop all her plans and care for the child.

As I said, in some places "stealthing" can bring charges of sexual assault. That would be right, since a condition of her consenting was that he had had a vasectomy.

She needs to plan on feeding the child too with no financial support for however many years dad is behind bars thanks to you. Sure I think it is a shitty thing for someone to do, but women need to be proactive in using birth control if they don't want to have a baby.

As long as the only punishment is people thinking its a shitty thing to do, those overgrown boys will continue to lie and continue to take off the condoms. The threat of punishment is what many of them need.

And as long as women can earn a 20 year payday without being charged for a crime; they’ll continue to lie about birth control. The threat of punishment is what many of them need.

It's already a bitch-and-a-half to prove cases of reproductive coercion in men. I can't even imagine how hard that would be to do against women.

But it is vigorously pursued, and pursuantly punished when possible. A principled belief in “equality” mandates the same pursuit for justice be sought for the men, and the women when found guilty be punished just as severely.

First of all, it's NOT all that "vigorously pursued", because it's extremely hard to prove, or even KNOW, whether it was intentional and malicious, or just an accident. And second of all, you need to stop projecting your bitterness toward whatever woman took you to the cleaners in court all over every conversation that involves women. Get some fucking therapy for this.

 

[Cecilie1200]

As long as the only punishment is people thinking its a shitty thing to do, those overgrown boys will continue to lie and continue to take off the condoms. The threat of punishment is what many of them need.

And as long as women can earn a 20 year payday without being charged for a crime; they’ll continue to lie about birth control. The threat of punishment is what many of them need.

But let's be real, what most men pay in child support is not going to be income for her as much as it will be helping cover the cost of raising a child.

from: What is the average child support payment?
"But on average, the latest statistic we have available comes from the 2010 Census. According to the Census Bureau Reports, the average monthly child support payment is $430."

from: Parents, save up: It costs this much to raise a kid
"The estimated cost of raising a child from birth through age 17 is $233,610 -- or as much as almost $14,000 annually, the Department of Agriculture says. That’s the average for a middle-income couple with two children. It’s a bit more expensive in urban parts of the country, and less so in rural areas."

$430 a month comes to $5,160 a year. So $103,200 for 20 years. Less than half the estimated cost of raising the child. Even if you double the child support, you are only paying $10,320 a year. That comes to $206,400 for 20 years. Still not hitting the cost. So calling it an income for her is simply inaccurate.

Plus, paying child support is inconvenient and perhaps a financial burden. Raising a child for 20 years is a complete change for her life.

The profit she takes in from her misdeed is hardly the crux of the matter. Merely one aspect.

I think what he's getting at is that it's a mite more intrusive to impregnate a woman by lying than for her to get impregnated by lying.

Says you.

No, says anyone reading his post who doesn't have a kneejerk misogynistic shitfit every time women are mentioned.

 

[Vastator]

She needs to plan on feeding the child too with no financial support for however many years dad is behind bars thanks to you. Sure I think it is a shitty thing for someone to do, but women need to be proactive in using birth control if they don't want to have a baby.

As long as the only punishment is people thinking its a shitty thing to do, those overgrown boys will continue to lie and continue to take off the condoms. The threat of punishment is what many of them need.

And as long as women can earn a 20 year payday without being charged for a crime; they’ll continue to lie about birth control. The threat of punishment is what many of them need.

It's already a bitch-and-a-half to prove cases of reproductive coercion in men. I can't even imagine how hard that would be to do against women.

But it is vigorously pursued, and pursuantly punished when possible. A principled belief in “equality” mandates the same pursuit for justice be sought for the men, and the women when found guilty be punished just as severely.

First of all, it's NOT all that "vigorously pursued", because it's extremely hard to prove, or even KNOW, whether it was intentional and malicious, or just an accident. And second of all, you need to stop projecting your bitterness toward whatever woman took you to the cleaners in court all over every conversation that involves women. Get some fucking therapy for this.

Someone's projecting. But it isn't me. Unfortunately I'm a widower. That bitterness you taste is your own, whenever the counterpoints are made. I thought you women wanted equality?

 

[Vastator]

And as long as women can earn a 20 year payday without being charged for a crime; they’ll continue to lie about birth control. The threat of punishment is what many of them need.

But let's be real, what most men pay in child support is not going to be income for her as much as it will be helping cover the cost of raising a child.

from: What is the average child support payment?
"But on average, the latest statistic we have available comes from the 2010 Census. According to the Census Bureau Reports, the average monthly child support payment is $430."

from: Parents, save up: It costs this much to raise a kid
"The estimated cost of raising a child from birth through age 17 is $233,610 -- or as much as almost $14,000 annually, the Department of Agriculture says. That’s the average for a middle-income couple with two children. It’s a bit more expensive in urban parts of the country, and less so in rural areas."

$430 a month comes to $5,160 a year. So $103,200 for 20 years. Less than half the estimated cost of raising the child. Even if you double the child support, you are only paying $10,320 a year. That comes to $206,400 for 20 years. Still not hitting the cost. So calling it an income for her is simply inaccurate.

Plus, paying child support is inconvenient and perhaps a financial burden. Raising a child for 20 years is a complete change for her life.

The profit she takes in from her misdeed is hardly the crux of the matter. Merely one aspect.

I think what he's getting at is that it's a mite more intrusive to impregnate a woman by lying than for her to get impregnated by lying.

Says you.

No, says anyone reading his post who doesn't have a kneejerk misogynistic shitfit every time women are mentioned.

So you're now disavowing yourself from what you said? Isn't that precious?

 

[Vastator]

As long as the only punishment is people thinking its a shitty thing to do, those overgrown boys will continue to lie and continue to take off the condoms. The threat of punishment is what many of them need.

And as long as women can earn a 20 year payday without being charged for a crime; they’ll continue to lie about birth control. The threat of punishment is what many of them need.

It's already a bitch-and-a-half to prove cases of reproductive coercion in men. I can't even imagine how hard that would be to do against women.

But it is vigorously pursued, and pursuantly punished when possible. A principled belief in “equality” mandates the same pursuit for justice be sought for the men, and the women when found guilty be punished just as severely.

First of all, it's NOT all that "vigorously pursued", because it's extremely hard to prove, or even KNOW, whether it was intentional and malicious, or just an accident. And second of all, you need to stop projecting your bitterness toward whatever woman took you to the cleaners in court all over every conversation that involves women. Get some fucking therapy for this.

Someone's projecting. But it isn't me. Unfortunately I'm a widower.

 

[Vastator]

She needs to plan on feeding the child too with no financial support for however many years dad is behind bars thanks to you. Sure I think it is a shitty thing for someone to do, but women need to be proactive in using birth control if they don't want to have a baby.

As long as the only punishment is people thinking its a shitty thing to do, those overgrown boys will continue to lie and continue to take off the condoms. The threat of punishment is what many of them need.

And as long as women can earn a 20 year payday without being charged for a crime; they’ll continue to lie about birth control. The threat of punishment is what many of them need.

It's already a bitch-and-a-half to prove cases of reproductive coercion in men. I can't even imagine how hard that would be to do against women.

But it is vigorously pursued, and pursuantly punished when possible. A principled belief in “equality” mandates the same pursuit for justice be sought for the men, and the women when found guilty be punished just as severely.

First of all, it's NOT all that "vigorously pursued", because it's extremely hard to prove, or even KNOW, whether it was intentional and malicious, or just an accident.

More vigorously pursued than when it happens to men. That's a fact. How many men have been charged with this lying about vasectomy, or ghosting, or whatever, as it pertains to birth control; compared to women? Yeah... So you can hang that one up.