U.N. rights inquiry says Israel must remove settlers

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is clearly manipulating the facts.

Oh come now. You just repeating the references I cited and attempting to twist them to your agenda.

You are blowing a lot of smoke on this issue. Let's look at what the League of Nations Covenant says about mandates.

Britain pursued an agenda that did not conform to the LoN Covenant. If it did conform to the covenant we would not be looking at a hundred years of war.

(COMMENT)

The LoN Covenant speaks about many nations, cultures and people. It is intended as a document and set of principles that apply worldwide. But it made a extra effort to speak of a few regions with special needs. One of those, as you rightly regurgitated, was one which specifically spoke to the Palestinian region. It comes in two parts:

Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone.

The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory.

(COMMENT)

First it speaks to the fact that "some" have reach a stage to be independent (provisionally recognized with A&A by the mandatory). These few (or "some) where provisionally recognized as needing assistance to "stand-alone" (self-rule or self-determination). BUT! the passage also implies that "some" have not reach the point to be provisionally recognized; and need special care and nurturing by the Mandatory.

The second part says that these communities should have a say in the selection of the Mandatory. It doesn't address self-rule or self-determination.

Now that is at the LoN Covenant level. The actual Mandate goes into more detail; as it should.

While it sounds harsh, even at the LoN Covenant level, to be singled out a a region of people that has special needs, unable to stand alone without assistance, it a recognition of the fact that the region is not mature enough to be let loose on its own path to self-determination. And as it turns-out, the LoN correctly assessed the situation. Since being made the offer under GA Res 181 (III), and rejected it, they have been in conflict continuously for more than a half century. Like children - alternating between initiating a fight, then afterwards playing the victim because they lost. This special needs group seems to be always crying that someone else is at fault and broke the rules; ignoring that they avoided the opportunity for a peaceful settlement. It is this special needs group that rejects peace, that false claims that everyone else is at fault, that also suggests that it is their right under the law to use threats, or force, to violate the existing international boundaries of another State as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States. Clearly operating outside the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and avoiding negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or other peaceful means of their choice. Instead, the Palestinian consistently argue that it has a right to organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or terrorist acts.

Blowing smoke, maybe - if there is fire behind it.

Most Respectfully,
R

This sounds like the Israeli propaganda version.

The Palestinians rejected giving over half of their country to foreigners (resolution 181) and you act like that was an irresponsible thing to do. Name a country that would have accepted that offer.

(COMMENT)

A couple points:

• The LoN/UN and the Mandatory were trying to make an Arab country; but, the people we call Palestinians today (actually other Arabs), did not have a country to give away. It was not theirs in that respect. (And don't use the lame land ownership argument. Statehood and establishing sovereignty doesn't effect privately owned land.)

While the GA Resolution 181 (III) only talks about 23% of the Mandate and Jerusalem, it is only reasonable to ask, what happened to the other 77% of the Mandate? This is a slight of hand the Palestinian cause "always" (rare but there are actually times you can use that word) forgets. In other Mandate actions (the Palestinian not being the center of the universe), 77% of Palestine went to establish another state for the Arab's.

..............................Original Mandate.......118,000 sq mi......100% of the Territory

• .........................Jordan..................91,000..............77%..........Controlled in 1948 by: Jordan
• .........................Negev Desert........11,750................9.9%.........Controlled in 1948 by: Israel
• .........................Israel (inhabited).....8,000................6.7%.........Controlled in 1948 by: Israel
• .........................West Bank..............5,700................4.8%.......Controlled in 1948 by: Jordan
• .........................Golan Heights.........1,176................0.99%........Controlled in 1948 by: Syria
• .........................Gaza Strip.................360................0.3%........Controlled in 1948 by: Egypt

As I said before, and I don't think anyone has argued against it, that there may be factual evidence or a combination of facts and evidence that gives the Palestinian Cause the right to seek judicial redress or relief against Israel. But the Palestinians have not tested this in court.

But to claim that Israel took more than half (50%) of the Mandate of Palestine is not factual. Israel was granted less than 17% (19,750 sq mi); a third of which was unimproved desert territory. The fact is, that 83% of the Palestinian Mandate went to designated Arab holders.

The actual (deep seeded) nature of the Palestinian complaint is bifurcated, and may not a matter of equity at all:

1. The Palestinians wants to eject Israel altogether from the Middle East.
2. The Palestinians did not get as big a cut of the Mandate as other Arab factions did.

The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
SOURCE: Mandate for Palestine text/League of Nations decision confirming the Principal Allied Powers' agreement on the territory of Palestine (12 August 1922)

At the outset of the Mandate, it was always understood that a portion of the ceded Ottoman Empire in that region would go for the establishment of a self-governing Jewish national home. While it is possible to drawdown a smaller portion Arab-to-Jewish ratio in land distribution (already greater than 4:1 in favor of the Arab), the hard question we have to ask is the overall reasonableness of the parties.

Again, the issue has been complicated by the fact that the expansion from the 1948 proportions to the land in question today was a result of national security and maintaining a defendable posture in the protection of sovereign integrity. It is the Palestinian that threatens peace by insisting on using threats, or force, as a means of solving inequities they perceive, including territorial disputes and problems concerning the frontiers.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Indofred]

BBC News - UN: Israeli settlements 'violate Palestinian rights'

Israeli settlements in the occupied territories violate Palestinians' human rights in ways designed to drive them off the land, a UN report states.

The report says settlements displace Palestinians, destroy their crops and property, and subject them to violence.

Israel refused to co-operate with the inquiry by three UN researchers.

The Israeli foreign ministry said the report from the UN Human Rights Council was "counterproductive" and would hamper the peace process.

"counterproductive" and would hamper the peace process?
I think they mean, They've been caught red handed.

Screw Israel's bastard government.

and what authority do they have, anti-semite?

perhaps you should tell the pals to make a deal and stop lobbing bombs. they might find the results better.

but why would terrorist supporting scum like you do that?

I love this crap.
The moment you have a pop at Israel, you become anti Jewish.
No, I'm anti murdering morons and their supporters.
That includes ALL murder, Muslim, Jewish, whoever.

In this case, the Israeli fuck faced government, the bastards in the IDF and the settler scumbags who flout international law and murder anyone who gets in their way.

Add, just for good measure, morons who support their murder....is that you?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is clearly manipulating the facts.

Oh come now. You just repeating the references I cited and attempting to twist them to your agenda.


(COMMENT)

The LoN Covenant speaks about many nations, cultures and people. It is intended as a document and set of principles that apply worldwide. But it made a extra effort to speak of a few regions with special needs. One of those, as you rightly regurgitated, was one which specifically spoke to the Palestinian region. It comes in two parts:


(COMMENT)

First it speaks to the fact that "some" have reach a stage to be independent (provisionally recognized with A&A by the mandatory). These few (or "some) where provisionally recognized as needing assistance to "stand-alone" (self-rule or self-determination). BUT! the passage also implies that "some" have not reach the point to be provisionally recognized; and need special care and nurturing by the Mandatory.

The second part says that these communities should have a say in the selection of the Mandatory. It doesn't address self-rule or self-determination.

Now that is at the LoN Covenant level. The actual Mandate goes into more detail; as it should.

While it sounds harsh, even at the LoN Covenant level, to be singled out a a region of people that has special needs, unable to stand alone without assistance, it a recognition of the fact that the region is not mature enough to be let loose on its own path to self-determination. And as it turns-out, the LoN correctly assessed the situation. Since being made the offer under GA Res 181 (III), and rejected it, they have been in conflict continuously for more than a half century. Like children - alternating between initiating a fight, then afterwards playing the victim because they lost. This special needs group seems to be always crying that someone else is at fault and broke the rules; ignoring that they avoided the opportunity for a peaceful settlement. It is this special needs group that rejects peace, that false claims that everyone else is at fault, that also suggests that it is their right under the law to use threats, or force, to violate the existing international boundaries of another State as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States. Clearly operating outside the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and avoiding negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or other peaceful means of their choice. Instead, the Palestinian consistently argue that it has a right to organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or terrorist acts.

Blowing smoke, maybe - if there is fire behind it.

Most Respectfully,
R

This sounds like the Israeli propaganda version.

The Palestinians rejected giving over half of their country to foreigners (resolution 181) and you act like that was an irresponsible thing to do. Name a country that would have accepted that offer.

(COMMENT)

A couple points:

• The LoN/UN and the Mandatory were trying to make an Arab country; but, the people we call Palestinians today (actually other Arabs), did not have a country to give away. It was not theirs in that respect. (And don't use the lame land ownership argument. Statehood and establishing sovereignty doesn't effect privately owned land.)

While the GA Resolution 181 (III) only talks about 23% of the Mandate and Jerusalem, it is only reasonable to ask, what happened to the other 77% of the Mandate? This is a slight of hand the Palestinian cause "always" (rare but there are actually times you can use that word) forgets. In other Mandate actions (the Palestinian not being the center of the universe), 77% of Palestine went to establish another state for the Arab's.

..............................Original Mandate.......118,000 sq mi......100% of the Territory

• .........................Jordan..................91,000..............77%..........Controlled in 1948 by: Jordan
• .........................Negev Desert........11,750................9.9%.........Controlled in 1948 by: Israel
• .........................Israel (inhabited).....8,000................6.7%.........Controlled in 1948 by: Israel
• .........................West Bank..............5,700................4.8%.......Controlled in 1948 by: Jordan
• .........................Golan Heights.........1,176................0.99%........Controlled in 1948 by: Syria
• .........................Gaza Strip.................360................0.3%........Controlled in 1948 by: Egypt

"Control" does not mean that territory is part of your country. There was territory that was controlled by Jordan but was still part of Palestine. The West Bank was Palestinian land that was occupied by Jordan. The West Bank is still Palestinian land but it is now occupied by Israel.

The Negev has been "controlled by Israel since 1948 but is it Israel?

(d) In the sector from a point on the Dead Sea (MR 1925-0958) to the southernmost tip of Palestine, the Armistice Demarcation Line shall be determined by existing military positions...

The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949

This agreement calls it Palestine.

2. The area thus demilitarized shall be as follows: From a point on the Egypt-Palestine frontier...thence returning north-west along the Egypt-Palestine frontier to the point of origin.

4. The road Taba-Qouseima-Auja shall not be employed by any military forces whatsoever for the purpose of entering Palestine.

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949

This agreement calls it Palestine. I cannot find an agreement anywhere where that land was transferred to Israel.

As I said before, and I don't think anyone has argued against it, that there may be factual evidence or a combination of facts and evidence that gives the Palestinian Cause the right to seek judicial redress or relief against Israel. But the Palestinians have not tested this in court.

But to claim that Israel took more than half (50%) of the Mandate of Palestine is not factual. Israel was granted less than 17% (19,750 sq mi); a third of which was unimproved desert territory. The fact is, that 83% of the Palestinian Mandate went to designated Arab holders.

The actual (deep seeded) nature of the Palestinian complaint is bifurcated, and may not a matter of equity at all:

1. The Palestinians wants to eject Israel altogether from the Middle East.
2. The Palestinians did not get as big a cut of the Mandate as other Arab factions did.

The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
SOURCE: Mandate for Palestine text/League of Nations decision confirming the Principal Allied Powers' agreement on the territory of Palestine (12 August 1922)

At the outset of the Mandate, it was always understood that a portion of the ceded Ottoman Empire in that region would go for the establishment of a self-governing Jewish national home. While it is possible to drawdown a smaller portion Arab-to-Jewish ratio in land distribution (already greater than 4:1 in favor of the Arab), the hard question we have to ask is the overall reasonableness of the parties.

It does not say that. It says "self governing institutions" there was not to be a Jewish state.

Again, the issue has been complicated by the fact that the expansion from the 1948 proportions to the land in question today was a result of national security and maintaining a defendable posture in the protection of sovereign integrity. It is the Palestinian that threatens peace by insisting on using threats, or force, as a means of solving inequities they perceive, including territorial disputes and problems concerning the frontiers.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is clearly manipulating the facts.

Oh come now. You just repeating the references I cited and attempting to twist them to your agenda.


(COMMENT)

The LoN Covenant speaks about many nations, cultures and people. It is intended as a document and set of principles that apply worldwide. But it made a extra effort to speak of a few regions with special needs. One of those, as you rightly regurgitated, was one which specifically spoke to the Palestinian region. It comes in two parts:


(COMMENT)

First it speaks to the fact that "some" have reach a stage to be independent (provisionally recognized with A&A by the mandatory). These few (or "some) where provisionally recognized as needing assistance to "stand-alone" (self-rule or self-determination). BUT! the passage also implies that "some" have not reach the point to be provisionally recognized; and need special care and nurturing by the Mandatory.

The second part says that these communities should have a say in the selection of the Mandatory. It doesn't address self-rule or self-determination.

Now that is at the LoN Covenant level. The actual Mandate goes into more detail; as it should.

While it sounds harsh, even at the LoN Covenant level, to be singled out a a region of people that has special needs, unable to stand alone without assistance, it a recognition of the fact that the region is not mature enough to be let loose on its own path to self-determination. And as it turns-out, the LoN correctly assessed the situation. Since being made the offer under GA Res 181 (III), and rejected it, they have been in conflict continuously for more than a half century. Like children - alternating between initiating a fight, then afterwards playing the victim because they lost. This special needs group seems to be always crying that someone else is at fault and broke the rules; ignoring that they avoided the opportunity for a peaceful settlement. It is this special needs group that rejects peace, that false claims that everyone else is at fault, that also suggests that it is their right under the law to use threats, or force, to violate the existing international boundaries of another State as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States. Clearly operating outside the Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and avoiding negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement, or other peaceful means of their choice. Instead, the Palestinian consistently argue that it has a right to organizing, instigating, assisting or participating in acts of civil strife or terrorist acts.

Blowing smoke, maybe - if there is fire behind it.

Most Respectfully,
R

This sounds like the Israeli propaganda version.

The Palestinians rejected giving over half of their country to foreigners (resolution 181) and you act like that was an irresponsible thing to do. Name a country that would have accepted that offer.

(COMMENT)

A couple points:

• The LoN/UN and the Mandatory were trying to make an Arab country; but, the people we call Palestinians today (actually other Arabs), did not have a country to give away. It was not theirs in that respect. (And don't use the lame land ownership argument. Statehood and establishing sovereignty doesn't effect privately owned land.)

While the GA Resolution 181 (III) only talks about 23% of the Mandate and Jerusalem, it is only reasonable to ask, what happened to the other 77% of the Mandate? This is a slight of hand the Palestinian cause "always" (rare but there are actually times you can use that word) forgets. In other Mandate actions (the Palestinian not being the center of the universe), 77% of Palestine went to establish another state for the Arab's.

..............................Original Mandate.......118,000 sq mi......100% of the Territory

• .........................Jordan..................91,000..............77%..........Controlled in 1948 by: Jordan
• .........................Negev Desert........11,750................9.9%.........Controlled in 1948 by: Israel
• .........................Israel (inhabited).....8,000................6.7%.........Controlled in 1948 by: Israel
• .........................West Bank..............5,700................4.8%.......Controlled in 1948 by: Jordan
• .........................Golan Heights.........1,176................0.99%........Controlled in 1948 by: Syria
• .........................Gaza Strip.................360................0.3%........Controlled in 1948 by: Egypt

As I said before, and I don't think anyone has argued against it, that there may be factual evidence or a combination of facts and evidence that gives the Palestinian Cause the right to seek judicial redress or relief against Israel. But the Palestinians have not tested this in court.

But to claim that Israel took more than half (50%) of the Mandate of Palestine is not factual. Israel was granted less than 17% (19,750 sq mi); a third of which was unimproved desert territory. The fact is, that 83% of the Palestinian Mandate went to designated Arab holders.

The actual (deep seeded) nature of the Palestinian complaint is bifurcated, and may not a matter of equity at all:

1. The Palestinians wants to eject Israel altogether from the Middle East.
2. The Palestinians did not get as big a cut of the Mandate as other Arab factions did.

The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
SOURCE: Mandate for Palestine text/League of Nations decision confirming the Principal Allied Powers' agreement on the territory of Palestine (12 August 1922)

At the outset of the Mandate, it was always understood that a portion of the ceded Ottoman Empire in that region would go for the establishment of a self-governing Jewish national home. While it is possible to drawdown a smaller portion Arab-to-Jewish ratio in land distribution (already greater than 4:1 in favor of the Arab), the hard question we have to ask is the overall reasonableness of the parties.

Again, the issue has been complicated by the fact that the expansion from the 1948 proportions to the land in question today was a result of national security and maintaining a defendable posture in the protection of sovereign integrity. It is the Palestinian that threatens peace by insisting on using threats, or force, as a means of solving inequities they perceive, including territorial disputes and problems concerning the frontiers.

Most Respectfully,
R

But the British had no sovereignty rights to give to Jewish colonizers in Europe or anywhere else, they held the land as trustees for the indigenous Palestinian people. More and more, I believe Israel will be a short lived nation and become an illustration of one more failed attempt by outsiders to occupy lands in the Middle East. Ironically, I see Israel's attempts to make her conflict falsely a part of this so called war on terror as a move that is going to more decisively seal her fate than she realuzes and not the way she visualizes it all as playing out at all. We do reap what we sow and I am going to so enjoy watching Israel fall. I just see the images of all the children she has killed and the justice of all of it is so right. I just cannot wait to see it happen! Sherri

 

[Indofred]

Another thing to notice on threads that show Israel up to be the bastard state it is.
The pro Zionist posters always ignore the topic and post stuff about terrorists.


They do this because they can't defend the murdering rogue state of Israel against the truth.
Israel has a terrible human rights record, worse than Saddam's.
Israel has a lot more UN resolutions against it than Iraq ever managed.

The US invaded Iraq without Iraq murdering any US sailors but Israel, the government who has murder many, is given cash.

 

[Jroc]

Another thing to notice on threads that show Israel up to be the bastard state it is.
The pro Zionist posters always ignore the topic and post stuff about terrorists.


They do this because they can't defend the murdering rogue state of Israel against the truth.
Israel has a terrible human rights record, worse than Saddam's.
Israel has a lot more UN resolutions against it than Iraq ever managed.

The US invaded Iraq without Iraq murdering any US sailors but Israel, the government who has murder many, is given cash.

Is it a requirement that you muslim converts be stupid? Saddam Hussein murdered over 300,000 people you’re an idiot

 

[Indofred]

another thing to notice on threads that show israel up to be the bastard state it is.
The pro zionist posters always ignore the topic and post stuff about terrorists.


They do this because they can't defend the murdering rogue state of israel against the truth.
Israel has a terrible human rights record, worse than saddam's.
Israel has a lot more un resolutions against it than iraq ever managed.

The us invaded iraq without iraq murdering any us sailors but israel, the government who has murder many, is given cash.

is it a requirement that you muslim converts be stupid? Saddam hussein murdered over 300,000 people you’re an idiot

q.e.d.

 

[Indofred]

Israelis and Palestinians Killed since 9/29/2000
Israel has managed a fair bit of mass murder.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Israelis and Palestinians Killed since 9/29/2000
Israel has managed a fair bit of mass murder.

I see the spikes and think about Jenin And Cast Lead, of course Jenin was not just Jenin, it was a year of atrocities throughout the West Bank, a priest murdered in Bethlehem, war crimes in Nablus, bulldozers destroying houses in Jenin with the residents still inside, countless incidents documented of Israel deliberately using Palestinian civilians as human shields, the handicapped being run over. And Cast Lead, children deliberately targeted in a military strike initiated as school shifts were changing, over a dozen children massacred on Day 1 of Cast Lead. Sisters holding white flags blown away by an Israeli soldier in a tank and their surviving sister left paralyzed. Families deliberately targeted and burned to death with white phosphorous given to the Zionist butchers by their buddies in the good old USA. I could go on and on but I will stop. Noone with any Humanity can support a Nation that does this continuing to exist. Sherri

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Another thing to notice on threads that show Israel up to be the bastard state it is.
The pro Zionist posters always ignore the topic and post stuff about terrorists.


They do this because they can't defend the murdering rogue state of Israel against the truth.
Israel has a terrible human rights record, worse than Saddam's.
Israel has a lot more UN resolutions against it than Iraq ever managed.

The US invaded Iraq without Iraq murdering any US sailors but Israel, the government who has murder many, is given cash.

Is it a requirement that you muslim converts be stupid? Saddam Hussein murdered over 300,000 people you’re an idiot

That is nothing beside the over 1 million who died in Iraq because of our unlawful invasion and occupation there. You have such a selective memory of history!

 

[irosie91]

Another thing to notice on threads that show Israel up to be the bastard state it is.
The pro Zionist posters always ignore the topic and post stuff about terrorists.


They do this because they can't defend the murdering rogue state of Israel against the truth.
Israel has a terrible human rights record, worse than Saddam's.
Israel has a lot more UN resolutions against it than Iraq ever managed.

The US invaded Iraq without Iraq murdering any US sailors but Israel, the government who has murder many, is given cash.

Is it a requirement that you muslim converts be stupid? Saddam Hussein murdered over 300,000 people you’re an idiot

That is nothing beside the over 1 million who died in Iraq because of our unlawful invasion and occupation there. You have such a selective memory of history!

LOL such a typical islamo nazi sow>>>

over 1 million who died in Iraq "because of"
our unlawful invasion and occupation there

more PROJECTION----of course people are still dying
in droves in Iraq----- The Baathist pigs are STILL
killing each other and shiite sluts are trotting into
mosques with bombs on their stinking asses---but
now the sows and dogs have someone to BLAME
(now that all the jews are gone) the USA
is there-----INFLUENCING THOSE SHIITE SLUTS---
probably promising them Israeli aphrodisiac chewing
gum (PS the US military has not come close to killing
even 20,000 people let alone A MILLION)

no one should be surprised at the idiot declaration of
the whore----The sluts and dogs blame everything on
"THE WEST" and the "zionist controlled CIA"

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Israelis and Palestinians Killed since 9/29/2000
Israel has managed a fair bit of mass murder.

I see the spikes and think about Jenin And Cast Lead, of course Jenin was not just Jenin, it was a year of atrocities throughout the West Bank, a priest murdered in Bethlehem, war crimes in Nablus, bulldozers destroying houses in Jenin with the residents still inside, countless incidents documented of Israel deliberately using Palestinian civilians as human shields, the handicapped being run over. And Cast Lead, children deliberately targeted in a military strike initiated as school shifts were changing, over a dozen children massacred on Day 1 of Cast Lead. Sisters holding white flags blown away by an Israeli soldier in a tank and their surviving sister left paralyzed. Families deliberately targeted and burned to death with white phosphorous given to the Zionist butchers by their buddies in the good old USA. I could go on and on but I will stop. Noone with any Humanity can support a Nation that does this continuing to exist. Sherri

2002 Israeli War Crimes In Occupied West Bank

April 16, 2002: A Palestinian woman, a survivor of Israel's attacks in Jenin, sits in what used to be her living room, before her home in the Jenin refugee camp was destroyed by the Israeli army. Israel used helicopter gunships, F16 fighter jets, tanks, and bulldozers, against Jenin, as Israeli forces launched a pogrom against Arab villages on the West Bank beginning March 29, as part of a policy of collective punishment of the Palestinian people, collective punishment constituting a war crime under The Fourth Geneva Convention!

"A monstrous war crime that Israel has tried to cover up for a fortnight has finally been exposed. Its troops have caused devastation in the center of the Jenin refugee camp, reached yesterday by The Independent, where thousands of people are still living amid the ruins. A residential area roughly 160,000 square yards about a third of a mile wide has been reduced to dust. Rubble has been shoveled by bulldozers into 30ft piles. The sweet and ghastly reek of rotting human bodies is everywhere, evidence that it is a human tomb. The people, who spent days hiding in basements crowded into single rooms as the rockets pounded in, say there are hundreds of corpses, entombed beneath the dust, under a field of debris, criss-crossed with tank and bulldozer treadmarks.

In one nearby half-wrecked building, gutted by fire, lies the fly-blown corpse of a man covered by a tartan rug. In another we found the remains of 23-year-old Ashraf Abu Hejar beneath the ruins of a fire-blackened room that collapsed on him after being hit by a rocket. His head is shrunken and blackened. In a third, five long-dead men lay under blankets. A quiet, sad-looking young man called Kamal Anis led us across the wasteland, littered now with detritus of what were once households -- foam rubber, torn clothes, shoes, tin cans, children's toys. He suddenly stopped. This was a mass grave, he said, pointing. We stared at a mound of debris. Here, he said, he saw the Israeli soldiers pile 30 bodies beneath a half-wrecked house. When the pile was complete, they bulldozed the building, bringing its ruins down on the corpses. Then they flattened the area with a tank. We could not see the bodies. But we could smell them."


Israeli Massacre of Palestinians from March 29, 2002

Atrocities like Jenin are carried out to ethnically cleanse Palestine to make way for illegal settlers to live as war criminals in the land of Palestine!

Sherri

 

[AsheedMidrarwz]

I smell a propaganda turd.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Israelis and Palestinians Killed since 9/29/2000
Israel has managed a fair bit of mass murder.

I see the spikes and think about Jenin And Cast Lead, of course Jenin was not just Jenin, it was a year of atrocities throughout the West Bank, a priest murdered in Bethlehem, war crimes in Nablus, bulldozers destroying houses in Jenin with the residents still inside, countless incidents documented of Israel deliberately using Palestinian civilians as human shields, the handicapped being run over. And Cast Lead, children deliberately targeted in a military strike initiated as school shifts were changing, over a dozen children massacred on Day 1 of Cast Lead. Sisters holding white flags blown away by an Israeli soldier in a tank and their surviving sister left paralyzed. Families deliberately targeted and burned to death with white phosphorous given to the Zionist butchers by their buddies in the good old USA. I could go on and on but I will stop. Noone with any Humanity can support a Nation that does this continuing to exist. Sherri

2002 Israeli War Crimes In Occupied West Bank

April 16, 2002: A Palestinian woman, a survivor of Israel's attacks in Jenin, sits in what used to be her living room, before her home in the Jenin refugee camp was destroyed by the Israeli army. Israel used helicopter gunships, F16 fighter jets, tanks, and bulldozers, against Jenin, as Israeli forces launched a pogrom against Arab villages on the West Bank beginning March 29, as part of a policy of collective punishment of the Palestinian people, collective punishment constituting a war crime under The Fourth Geneva Convention!

"A monstrous war crime that Israel has tried to cover up for a fortnight has finally been exposed. Its troops have caused devastation in the center of the Jenin refugee camp, reached yesterday by The Independent, where thousands of people are still living amid the ruins. A residential area roughly 160,000 square yards about a third of a mile wide has been reduced to dust. Rubble has been shoveled by bulldozers into 30ft piles. The sweet and ghastly reek of rotting human bodies is everywhere, evidence that it is a human tomb. The people, who spent days hiding in basements crowded into single rooms as the rockets pounded in, say there are hundreds of corpses, entombed beneath the dust, under a field of debris, criss-crossed with tank and bulldozer treadmarks.

In one nearby half-wrecked building, gutted by fire, lies the fly-blown corpse of a man covered by a tartan rug. In another we found the remains of 23-year-old Ashraf Abu Hejar beneath the ruins of a fire-blackened room that collapsed on him after being hit by a rocket. His head is shrunken and blackened. In a third, five long-dead men lay under blankets. A quiet, sad-looking young man called Kamal Anis led us across the wasteland, littered now with detritus of what were once households -- foam rubber, torn clothes, shoes, tin cans, children's toys. He suddenly stopped. This was a mass grave, he said, pointing. We stared at a mound of debris. Here, he said, he saw the Israeli soldiers pile 30 bodies beneath a half-wrecked house. When the pile was complete, they bulldozed the building, bringing its ruins down on the corpses. Then they flattened the area with a tank. We could not see the bodies. But we could smell them."


Israeli Massacre of Palestinians from March 29, 2002

Atrocities like Jenin are carried out to ethnically cleanse Palestine to make way for illegal settlers to live as war criminals in the land of Palestine!

Sherri

April 18, 2002, a Palestinian boy who was wounded by Israeli troops, as he stands downcast amid the ruins of the Jenin refugee camp.

A Palestinian woman searches for a relative among the bodies of 35 Palestinians killed by the Israelis in Nablus, April 18, 2002.

An Israeli soldier fires on a church in Bethlehem, April 17, 2002. Was that the shot that killed the Christian priest in Bethlehem, documented by Btselem?

Israeli Massacre of Palestinians from March 29, 2002

Sherri

 

[AsheedMidrarwz]

When the Arab muslim mothers learn to love their children more than death, then there will be peace. Only a sick evil person would use the death of their children by their own hands to further their evil agenda. You are sick.

 

[freedombecki]

Translation; The Jews do not have the right to live there. Typical bigoted , racist, Jew Hating Pro Palestinian

Wrong. The jews have a right to live there to. They just can't do it in the areas designated for the Palestinian's. The jews have their land and the Pals have a right to theirs as well.

Why do you have to fly from one extreme to the other? This isn't an either/or situation. Either it's the jews land, or it's the arabs land. Those are not the choices. Both cultures can live side by side, if you fuckin' zionists start showing a little respect for others.

All the hostility started when zionists migrated in showing absolutely no respect for the rights of the indigenous people already living there. When it became clear to the arabs that their rights were being systematically taken from them, they got violent. Anyone in that situation would do the same. You try to take my rights away from me, I'm gonna kick your ass! But since you respect my rights, we don't have to go there. You do respect them, do you? I respect yours.

But what do I know? I'm not jewish and I'm not muslim. But a fellow zionist, on the other hand, can sum up my point this way...

Ahad Ha'am warned against the violation of the rights of the Palestinian people, and his words are well known in the literature of Palestine.

"... Ahad Ha'am warned that the settlers must under no circumstances arouse the wrath of the natives... 'Yet what do our brethren do in Palestine? Just the very opposite! Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora and suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination...'

"Ahad Ha'am returned to the Arab problem ... in February 1914 ... '[the Zionists] wax angry towards those who remind them that there is still another people in Eretz Yisrael that has been living there and does not intend at all to leave its place. In a future when this illusion will have been torn from their hearts and they will look with open eyes upon the reality as it is, they will certainly understand how important this question is and how great our duty to work for its solution'."

You get what you give.

Both cultures can live side by side, if you <second stage Freudian ad hominem omitted> zionists start showing a little respect for others.

That's a bit oxymoronic, even for you, loinboy.

No person who posts here could have an impact on the kind of shelling for Syria and Iran hamas and hezbollah are doing by proxy from too near the Palestinian front porches in lands occupied by people descended from indigenous people of over 3500 years in the land of Israel. The Israeli government, to protect children of these people have been forced to move them away from where terrorists are shelling the main body of Israel from. They shell there to draw fire that kills, but they leave before the return fire starts, saving themselves and letting the common people and their children take the fire. That's wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, any way you slice the pie.

Hamas -

" is an acronym for the Arab words for Islamic Resistance Movement; the word itself means "zeal." It was founded in 1987 at the time of the Palestinian uprising, the intifada, in Gaza and the West Bank. It is one of 28 groups officially declared a "foreign terrorist organization" by the State Department. Its goal is to destroy Israel and to put in place an Islamic Palestinian state. Its methods include assassination, raids, bombing, and suicide bombing. It also runs a network of mosques and social service organizations, such as medical clinics. Its Web site lists "The Glory Record," 85 incidents of terror. Hamas opposed the Palestinian Liberation Organization's (PLO) 1988 acceptance of the United Nations resolutions acknowledging Israel's right to exist and further objected to the 1993 peace agreement and mutual recognition between Israel and the PLO. In recent years Palestinian security forces have cooperated with Israel to help keep Hamas in check. Last week, as violence accelerated, Arafat released a number of Hamas prisoners but this week, acceding to Israel's demands, re-arrested some. Hamas has fund-raising networks in the United States and Europe, which supplies about a third of its $30-million annual budget. It also gets money from Iran and Saudi-born terrorist Osama Bin Laden." Slate: What are Hamas and Hezbollah?

Hezbollah -

also spelled Hizballah, means "party of God." It is a Shiite Muslim organization headquartered in Lebanon whose goal is a fundamentalist Islamic state there and beyond and the obliteration of Israel. It was created in 1982 after the Israeli invasion of Lebanon and last May forced the Israeli withdrawal from that country. Hezbollah is also on the State Department's foreign terrorist organization list, and its head, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, received his own title as a Specially Designated Terrorist, meaning he has supported violent means to threaten the Middle East peace process. Enlarging its role in the current turmoil, Hezbollah just kidnapped three Israeli sergeants and a lieutenant colonel in the air force reserve and says in exchange for information on the soldiers it wants release of all Lebanese and Palestinian prisoners held by Israel. It trains Hamas militants and is seeking to further arm Fatah, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad. For those Palestinians without guns, Hezbollah encourages them to stab Israelis to death. The group is believed responsible for the 1983 suicide bombing of an American Marine barracks in Lebanon that killed 241 American military personnel, as well as the bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires in 1992. Hezbollah has extremely close ties with Iran, from which it gets everything from diplomatic aid to weapons to an estimated $100 million a year; Syria is a substantial supporter as well. Hezbollah also runs social service organizations and has its own satellite television station, which broadcasts training of suicide bombers. http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.html

These definitions (and there are more at the links provided) come from information gleaned from the Obama State Department. It couldn't be clearer: Israel's demise is the mutual goal of these two insidious terrorism-through-murder organizations. Period.

 

[sealadaigh]

Translation; The Jews do not have the right to live there. Typical bigoted , racist, Jew Hating Pro Palestinian

Wrong. The jews have a right to live there to. They just can't do it in the areas designated for the Palestinian's. The jews have their land and the Pals have a right to theirs as well.

Why do you have to fly from one extreme to the other? This isn't an either/or situation. Either it's the jews land, or it's the arabs land. Those are not the choices. Both cultures can live side by side, if you fuckin' zionists start showing a little respect for others.

All the hostility started when zionists migrated in showing absolutely no respect for the rights of the indigenous people already living there. When it became clear to the arabs that their rights were being systematically taken from them, they got violent. Anyone in that situation would do the same. You try to take my rights away from me, I'm gonna kick your ass! But since you respect my rights, we don't have to go there. You do respect them, do you? I respect yours.

But what do I know? I'm not jewish and I'm not muslim. But a fellow zionist, on the other hand, can sum up my point this way...

You get what you give.

Both cultures can live side by side, if you <second stage Freudian ad hominem omitted> zionists start showing a little respect for others.

That's a bit oxymoronic, even for you, loinboy.

No person who posts here could have an impact on the kind of shelling for Syria and Iran hamas and hezbollah are doing by proxy from too near the Palestinian front porches in lands occupied by people descended from indigenous people of over 3500 years in the land of Israel. The Israeli government, to protect children of these people have been forced to move them away from where terrorists are shelling the main body of Israel from. They shell there to draw fire that kills, but they leave before the return fire starts, saving themselves and letting the common people and their children take the fire. That's wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, any way you slice the pie.

Hamas -

" is an acronym for the Arab words for Islamic Resistance Movement; the word itself means "zeal." It was founded in 1987 at the time of the Palestinian uprising, the intifada, in Gaza and the West Bank. It is one of 28 groups officially declared a "foreign terrorist organization" by the State Department. Its goal is to destroy Israel and to put in place an Islamic Palestinian state. Its methods include assassination, raids, bombing, and suicide bombing. It also runs a network of mosques and social service organizations, such as medical clinics. Its Web site lists "The Glory Record," 85 incidents of terror. Hamas opposed the Palestinian Liberation Organization's (PLO) 1988 acceptance of the United Nations resolutions acknowledging Israel's right to exist and further objected to the 1993 peace agreement and mutual recognition between Israel and the PLO. In recent years Palestinian security forces have cooperated with Israel to help keep Hamas in check. Last week, as violence accelerated, Arafat released a number of Hamas prisoners but this week, acceding to Israel's demands, re-arrested some. Hamas has fund-raising networks in the United States and Europe, which supplies about a third of its $30-million annual budget. It also gets money from Iran and Saudi-born terrorist Osama Bin Laden." Slate: What are Hamas and Hezbollah?

Hezbollah -

also spelled Hizballah, means "party of God." It is a Shiite Muslim organization headquartered in Lebanon whose goal is a fundamentalist Islamic state there and beyond and the obliteration of Israel. It was created in 1982 after the Israeli invasion of Lebanon and last May forced the Israeli withdrawal from that country. Hezbollah is also on the State Department's foreign terrorist organization list, and its head, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, received his own title as a Specially Designated Terrorist, meaning he has supported violent means to threaten the Middle East peace process. Enlarging its role in the current turmoil, Hezbollah just kidnapped three Israeli sergeants and a lieutenant colonel in the air force reserve and says in exchange for information on the soldiers it wants release of all Lebanese and Palestinian prisoners held by Israel. It trains Hamas militants and is seeking to further arm Fatah, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad. For those Palestinians without guns, Hezbollah encourages them to stab Israelis to death. The group is believed responsible for the 1983 suicide bombing of an American Marine barracks in Lebanon that killed 241 American military personnel, as well as the bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires in 1992. Hezbollah has extremely close ties with Iran, from which it gets everything from diplomatic aid to weapons to an estimated $100 million a year; Syria is a substantial supporter as well. Hezbollah also runs social service organizations and has its own satellite television station, which broadcasts training of suicide bombers. Slate: What are Hamas and Hezbollah?

These definitions (and there are more at the links provided) come from information gleaned from the Obama State Department. It couldn't be clearer: Israel's demise is the mutual goal of these two insidious terrorism-through-murder organizations. Period.

lol...yanno, when i click a link and it says "FORBIDDEN"...

i feel a haiku about hate coming on.

 

[Jroc]

Israelis and Palestinians Killed since 9/29/2000
Israel has managed a fair bit of mass murder.

Over 60,000 muslims killed in Syria in the past year. Millions of muslims killed by other muslims worldwide. North Africa, Iraq, Iran, Afganistan, Pakistan, Yemen..On and on. Not to mention the 100s of thousands of Christians killed by muslims. muslim society is a dysfunctional society, there are moderate muslims, but the radicals are winning the struggle between the two. It's a sad situation worry about what you can do to help this situation. Blaming Jews or anyone else for your sad state isn't going to help.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Translation; The Jews do not have the right to live there. Typical bigoted , racist, Jew Hating Pro Palestinian

Wrong. The jews have a right to live there to. They just can't do it in the areas designated for the Palestinian's. The jews have their land and the Pals have a right to theirs as well.

Why do you have to fly from one extreme to the other? This isn't an either/or situation. Either it's the jews land, or it's the arabs land. Those are not the choices. Both cultures can live side by side, if you fuckin' zionists start showing a little respect for others.

All the hostility started when zionists migrated in showing absolutely no respect for the rights of the indigenous people already living there. When it became clear to the arabs that their rights were being systematically taken from them, they got violent. Anyone in that situation would do the same. You try to take my rights away from me, I'm gonna kick your ass! But since you respect my rights, we don't have to go there. You do respect them, do you? I respect yours.

But what do I know? I'm not jewish and I'm not muslim. But a fellow zionist, on the other hand, can sum up my point this way...

You get what you give.

Both cultures can live side by side, if you <second stage Freudian ad hominem omitted> zionists start showing a little respect for others.

That's a bit oxymoronic, even for you, loinboy.

No person who posts here could have an impact on the kind of shelling for Syria and Iran hamas and hezbollah are doing by proxy from too near the Palestinian front porches in lands occupied by people descended from indigenous people of over 3500 years in the land of Israel. The Israeli government, to protect children of these people have been forced to move them away from where terrorists are shelling the main body of Israel from. They shell there to draw fire that kills, but they leave before the return fire starts, saving themselves and letting the common people and their children take the fire. That's wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, any way you slice the pie.

Hamas -

" is an acronym for the Arab words for Islamic Resistance Movement; the word itself means "zeal." It was founded in 1987 at the time of the Palestinian uprising, the intifada, in Gaza and the West Bank. It is one of 28 groups officially declared a "foreign terrorist organization" by the State Department. Its goal is to destroy Israel and to put in place an Islamic Palestinian state. Its methods include assassination, raids, bombing, and suicide bombing. It also runs a network of mosques and social service organizations, such as medical clinics. Its Web site lists "The Glory Record," 85 incidents of terror. Hamas opposed the Palestinian Liberation Organization's (PLO) 1988 acceptance of the United Nations resolutions acknowledging Israel's right to exist and further objected to the 1993 peace agreement and mutual recognition between Israel and the PLO. In recent years Palestinian security forces have cooperated with Israel to help keep Hamas in check. Last week, as violence accelerated, Arafat released a number of Hamas prisoners but this week, acceding to Israel's demands, re-arrested some. Hamas has fund-raising networks in the United States and Europe, which supplies about a third of its $30-million annual budget. It also gets money from Iran and Saudi-born terrorist Osama Bin Laden." Slate: What are Hamas and Hezbollah?

Hezbollah -

also spelled Hizballah, means "party of God." It is a Shiite Muslim organization headquartered in Lebanon whose goal is a fundamentalist Islamic state there and beyond and the obliteration of Israel. It was created in 1982 after the Israeli invasion of Lebanon and last May forced the Israeli withdrawal from that country. Hezbollah is also on the State Department's foreign terrorist organization list, and its head, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, received his own title as a Specially Designated Terrorist, meaning he has supported violent means to threaten the Middle East peace process. Enlarging its role in the current turmoil, Hezbollah just kidnapped three Israeli sergeants and a lieutenant colonel in the air force reserve and says in exchange for information on the soldiers it wants release of all Lebanese and Palestinian prisoners held by Israel. It trains Hamas militants and is seeking to further arm Fatah, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad. For those Palestinians without guns, Hezbollah encourages them to stab Israelis to death. The group is believed responsible for the 1983 suicide bombing of an American Marine barracks in Lebanon that killed 241 American military personnel, as well as the bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires in 1992. Hezbollah has extremely close ties with Iran, from which it gets everything from diplomatic aid to weapons to an estimated $100 million a year; Syria is a substantial supporter as well. Hezbollah also runs social service organizations and has its own satellite television station, which broadcasts training of suicide bombers. Slate: What are Hamas and Hezbollah?

These definitions (and there are more at the links provided) come from information gleaned from the Obama State Department. It couldn't be clearer: Israel's demise is the mutual goal of these two insidious terrorism-through-murder organizations. Period.

You only care about the Middle East to the extent it affects the ethnic cleansing Jews in Palestine, it seems. That speaks volumes for your Humanity, or lack thereof, should I say?

Your information is obviously outdated, about the two groups you oppose, referring to soldiers kidnapped years ago, and who cares what the US government says about these groups. I could care less, my Bible tells me as a Christian nations are controlled by the prince of this world. So, I, as a believer in the words of Jesus, I would best listen to His words and not believe what governments say, any of them, unless I desire to buy into lies of Satan!

For the people in the Middle East, the two groups you discuss are resistance organizations, both created to oppose Israeli occupations, the occupation of Palestine and Israel's occupation of Lebanon, which still exists as long as they unlawfully occupy Sheeba Farms.

As far as your claim they desire Israel's demise, I think that is a good goal for people of conscience to have. Rogue nations like Israel, who regularly carry out child massacres and human rights abuses and civilian slaughters and who refuse to comply with international law, have no business existing in our world today.

Sherri

 

[Jroc]

Wrong. The jews have a right to live there to. They just can't do it in the areas designated for the Palestinian's. The jews have their land and the Pals have a right to theirs as well.

Why do you have to fly from one extreme to the other? This isn't an either/or situation. Either it's the jews land, or it's the arabs land. Those are not the choices. Both cultures can live side by side, if you fuckin' zionists start showing a little respect for others.

All the hostility started when zionists migrated in showing absolutely no respect for the rights of the indigenous people already living there. When it became clear to the arabs that their rights were being systematically taken from them, they got violent. Anyone in that situation would do the same. You try to take my rights away from me, I'm gonna kick your ass! But since you respect my rights, we don't have to go there. You do respect them, do you? I respect yours.

But what do I know? I'm not jewish and I'm not muslim. But a fellow zionist, on the other hand, can sum up my point this way...

You get what you give.

Both cultures can live side by side, if you <second stage Freudian ad hominem omitted> zionists start showing a little respect for others.

That's a bit oxymoronic, even for you, loinboy.

No person who posts here could have an impact on the kind of shelling for Syria and Iran hamas and hezbollah are doing by proxy from too near the Palestinian front porches in lands occupied by people descended from indigenous people of over 3500 years in the land of Israel. The Israeli government, to protect children of these people have been forced to move them away from where terrorists are shelling the main body of Israel from. They shell there to draw fire that kills, but they leave before the return fire starts, saving themselves and letting the common people and their children take the fire. That's wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, any way you slice the pie.

Hamas -

Hezbollah -

also spelled Hizballah, means "party of God." It is a Shiite Muslim organization headquartered in Lebanon whose goal is a fundamentalist Islamic state there and beyond and the obliteration of Israel. It was created in 1982 after the Israeli invasion of Lebanon and last May forced the Israeli withdrawal from that country. Hezbollah is also on the State Department's foreign terrorist organization list, and its head, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, received his own title as a Specially Designated Terrorist, meaning he has supported violent means to threaten the Middle East peace process. Enlarging its role in the current turmoil, Hezbollah just kidnapped three Israeli sergeants and a lieutenant colonel in the air force reserve and says in exchange for information on the soldiers it wants release of all Lebanese and Palestinian prisoners held by Israel. It trains Hamas militants and is seeking to further arm Fatah, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad. For those Palestinians without guns, Hezbollah encourages them to stab Israelis to death. The group is believed responsible for the 1983 suicide bombing of an American Marine barracks in Lebanon that killed 241 American military personnel, as well as the bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires in 1992. Hezbollah has extremely close ties with Iran, from which it gets everything from diplomatic aid to weapons to an estimated $100 million a year; Syria is a substantial supporter as well. Hezbollah also runs social service organizations and has its own satellite television station, which broadcasts training of suicide bombers. Slate: What are Hamas and Hezbollah?

These definitions (and there are more at the links provided) come from information gleaned from the Obama State Department. It couldn't be clearer: Israel's demise is the mutual goal of these two insidious terrorism-through-murder organizations. Period.

You only care about the Middle East to the extent it affects the ethnic cleansing Jews in Palestine, it seems. That speaks volumes for your Humanity, or lack thereof, should I say?

Your information is obviously outdated, about the two groups you oppose, referring to soldiers kidnapped years ago, and who cares what the US government says about these groups. I could care less, my Bible tells me as a Christian nations are controlled by the prince of this world. So, I, as a believer in the words of Jesus, I would best listen to His words and not believe what governments say, any of them, unless I desire to buy into lies of Satan!

For the people in the Middle East, the two groups you discuss are resistance organizations, both created to oppose Israeli occupations, the occupation of Palestine and Israel's occupation of Lebanon, which still exists as long as they unlawfully occupy Sheeba Farms.

As far as your claim they desire Israel's demise, I think that is a good goal for people of conscience to have. Rogue nations like Israel, who regularly carry out child massacres and human rights abuses and civilian slaughters and who refuse to comply with international law, have no business existing in our world today.

Sherri

Too late