Ukraine begins anti-terrorist operations in eastern part of country

[tinydancer]

This just happened recently as well. We back these guys. Our leaders our insane. Svoboda in Parliament having an issue with free speech again.

Petro Symonenko was speaking when he was, The Guardian reported, seized from the podium by members of the nationalist, far-right Svoboda party.

Oh here's a better shot of Svoboda in action. This is right in Parliament. Putin doesn't need propaganda to prove these men are goons and this is who our Western leaders are embracing as leaders of democracy in the Ukraine.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...arliament-brawl-as-russia-warns-of-civil-war/

 

[tinydancer]

And an FYI . The illegal vote to impeach was really not 328 to 0. One has to take into account that his party refused to vote to impeach him.

Yanukovych's Part of Regions was largely absent from the vote as 98 of its 134 deputies were either not present or refused to vote.

Ukraine's parliament votes to impeach president, sets elections for May 25

 

[Toro]

This just happened recently as well. We back these guys. Our leaders our insane. Svoboda in Parliament having an issue with free speech again.

Petro Symonenko was speaking when he was, The Guardian reported, seized from the podium by members of the nationalist, far-right Svoboda party.

Oh here's a better shot of Svoboda in action. This is right in Parliament. Putin doesn't need propaganda to prove these men are goons and this is who our Western leaders are embracing as leaders of democracy in the Ukraine.

Ukraine lawmakers fight among themselves in violent parliament brawl as Russia warns of civil war | National Post

You're presenting this guy as being representative of the Ukrainians who opposed Yanukovich. That's disingenuous. That's like saying the Tea Party is racist because there some racists in the Tea Party, so we should dismiss all of the Tea Party.

Again, Vladimir Putin is an ex-communist member of the KGB. But it's OK to whitewash that but focus on a minority in the the current Ukrainian Parliament.

And that all of Yanukovich's party didn't show up doesn't mean there was an overwhelming desire to get rid of him. The vote would have been 328-98 instead of 328-0. When you start killing innocent protestors, perhaps 10 votes short of a constitutional majority is enough get rid of the guy. He can stay in Moscow with his master Putin and count the billions he stole.

Meanwhile, Ukrainian forces are battling Russian special ops in the east.

Ukraine began an offensive against separatists in its eastern regions, recapturing an airport amid claims Russian special forces were supporting the anti-government groups.

Units from Ukraine’s Interior Ministry yesterday ousted pro-Russian activists who’d seized the airfield in Kramatorsk, though there were conflicting accounts on casualties. While there were no reports of violence overnight, two Ukrainian soldiers were kidnapped, according to the Interfax news service. U.S. Representative Mike Rogers, chairman of the House Intelligence committee, accused Russia of “sabotage.”

“There are Russian citizens who are, again, military and intelligence operatives in eastern Ukraine fomenting this trouble,” Rogers said yesterday in an interview on CNN. “They are recruiting, and there’s some level of training.”

Ukraine Says Russian Forces Among Separatists as Battles Ensue - Bloomberg

 

[Kondor3]

George, I fear that you're leaning far too heavily upon a leaked tape, to INFER a SUBSTANTIVE role for the United States in the so-called Ukrainian Coup.

Your 1960s hippy-style 'US is the greatest purveyor of violence in the world' track record for bashing your own country, clouds your objectivity in such matters, quite probably.

I have no clue whether or not the US helped to engineer the so-called 'coup' in Ukraine, but I see no such substantive evidence in what you've cited for us here.

It seems just as likely (more likely, actually, within the realm of practicality and common sense) that the two diplomats were talking about how best to interact with the new regime and whom to suggest as members of the new Cabinet in order to yield the most globally palatable range of choices.

I see no evidence that we sparked the protests nor the overthrow of the President-turned-Quisling whom they rid themselves of, nor that we appointed (in whole or in part) the new Cabinet, nor even influenced its composition to any appreciable extent.

Hardly what I'd call evidence of macro-level interference, and zero evidence of having engineered the so-called coup.

Again... I wouldn't put it past us, and I have no problem with acknowledging US complicity when such can be substantiated, but, unlike you, I see no hard evidence nor substantive suggestion of same at present.

Unless you've got something else up your sleeve that looks a little more credible, that we haven't seen yet.

Historical evidence?

"Quite a number of post WWII coups are believed to have been US-assisted, like the one in Iran in 1953. Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh, who sought to turn Iran into a full democracy was ousted with the help of the US and replaced by the Shah, who then ruled as absolute monarch for the next 26 years.

"It was the potential... to leave Iran open to Soviet aggression - at a time when the Cold War was at its height and when the United States was involved in an undeclared war in Korea against forces supported by the USSR and China - that compelled the United States [REDACTED] in planning and executing TPAJAX [the code name of the coup operation]," reads the CIA document, declassified in 2013 and cited by the Foreign Policy.

"Similarly the US’s hand is seen in the 1954 coup in Guatemala, the in the Congo 1960, in South Vietnam 1963, in Brazil 1964, and Chile in 1973."

Google: "Victoria Nuland and Fuck the EU" if you have doubts about Ukraine.

Coups for export: US has history of supporting anti-govt upheavals ? RT News

What does this have to do with Ukraine in 2014?

What does Victoria Nuland have to do with Ukraine in 2014?
She picked the current unelected Prime Minister, for starters:

"Let’s listen to little bit more of the leaked conversation between the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt, and Victoria Nuland, the top U.S. diplomat for Europe.

"VICTORIA NULAND: Good. So, I don’t think Klitsch should go into the government. I don’t think it’s necessary. I don’t think it’s a good idea.

"GEOFFREY PYATT: Yeah. I mean, I guess, you think—in terms of him not going into the government, just let him sort of stay out and do his political homework and stuff. I’m just thinking, in terms of sort of the process moving ahead, we want to keep the moderate democrats together. The problem is going to be Tyahnybok and his guys. And, you know, I’m sure that’s part of what Yanukovych is calculating on all of this. I kind of—

"VICTORIA NULAND: I think—I think Yats is the guy who’s got the economic experience, the governing experience. He’s the guy—you know, what he needs is Klitsch and Tyahnybok on the outside. He needs to be talking to them four times a week. You know, I just think Klitsch going in, he’s going to be at that level working for Yatsenyuk. It’s just not going to work."

A New Cold War? Ukraine Violence Escalates, Leaked Tape Suggests U.S. Was Plotting Coup | Democracy Now!

 

[georgephillip]

Svoboda holds what?

36 of 460 seats in the Ukrainian Parliament?

136 of 3056 administrative regions in the Ukraine?

3 of 22 cabinet posts (now that Defense has resigned and been replaced)?

Am I missing some important piece of information, or are we making far too much out of Svoboda's participation in the New Government?

Depends how much significance you attach to the importance of those who threw fire bombs at police officers in order to drive an elected president from office, doesn't it?

It's as least as "important" as the three Ukrainian billionaires who've have been picked by an un-elected Prime Minister to head key political or advisory posts.

"The non-elected or provisional Ukrainian government headed by 39-year old Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk has made key regional appointments as Governors in the industrial pro-Russian eastern Ukraine..."

"Ihor Kolomoisky, a metals, banking and media baron worth between $3 and $6 billion, will be governor of his native region Dnipropetrovsk.

"He built his billions as a crony of convicted fraudster, ex-premier Yulia Tymoshenko. He is an Ukrainian-Israeli business oligarch of Jewish descent with a dual Ukrainian-Israeli citizenship although dual citizenship is not recognized by Ukraine.

"Until now he has controlled his business empire from Switzerland.

"Serhiy Taruta, the country’s 16th-richest man, was put in charge of the strategic coal mining region of Donetsk.
Serhiy Taruta is a Ukrainian businessman, chairman of Industrial Union of Donbas, and President of FC Metalurh Donetsk. According to Forbes magazine, he ranks among the 500 richest people in the world, with his estimated wealth being around 2 billion US dollars. [2]

"Most eyebrow-raising is the role of Ukraine’s richest man, billionaire Rinat Akhmetov, former money backer of Yanukovych. Akhmetov has pledged to 'do everything possible to maintain the integrity of our country.'

"Akhmetov, whose SCM Group controls nearly half of the country’s coal, steel, ore and thermoelectricity sectors is listed as the 47th richest man in the world with an estimated net worth of US 15.4 billion.

"He allegedly won his billions through ties to organized crime..."

What happens to Ukraine will be a model for the rest of us | Veterans Today

Nowhere here do I see evidence of a US -engineered coup in Ukraine in 2014.

What would you consider evidence, and are you willing to wait 60 years for it?

"The Central Intelligence Agency was behind the overthrow of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh in 1953. It's been an open secret for decades, but last week,(9/13) The George Washington University's National Security Archive released newly declassified documents proving it.

"Orchestrating the Iranian coup d'état was a first for the CIA and would serve as the template for future Cold War covert operations worldwide."

Declassified Documents Reveal CIA Role In 1953 Iranian Coup : NPR

 

[Kondor3]

George... a number of past episodes of interference by the US, in the 'rebooting' of a country, is almost irrelevant, in the context of the present day, especially when you consider that those episodes you cite are mostly connected to 2nd and 3rd-world shitholes, not well-developed countries and regions such as the Ukraine.

What would I consider 'evidence'? That's a very good question. And I'm not sure that I've got an intelligent answer. I haven't contemplated that long enough to say, I guess.

Intercepted or leaked communiques of a far more substantive nature than the loose inferences you've conjured-up so far, at the very least, and with a chain-of-custody and chain-of-relay that deals in credible and reliable and objective sources, I would think.

Given all the squabbling and in-fighting amongst Western Ukrainians and their diverse political parties, and the leaks that such an environment is ever-so-prone to, do you honestly believe that that gaggle of loosely and imperfectly allied political hacks could keep the secret of substantive US involvement for any appreciable length of time?

I don't.

Depends how much significance you attach to the importance of those who threw fire bombs at police officers in order to drive an elected president from office, doesn't it?

It's as least as "important" as the three Ukrainian billionaires who've have been picked by an un-elected Prime Minister to head key political or advisory posts.

"The non-elected or provisional Ukrainian government headed by 39-year old Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk has made key regional appointments as Governors in the industrial pro-Russian eastern Ukraine..."

"Ihor Kolomoisky, a metals, banking and media baron worth between $3 and $6 billion, will be governor of his native region Dnipropetrovsk.

"He built his billions as a crony of convicted fraudster, ex-premier Yulia Tymoshenko. He is an Ukrainian-Israeli business oligarch of Jewish descent with a dual Ukrainian-Israeli citizenship although dual citizenship is not recognized by Ukraine.

"Until now he has controlled his business empire from Switzerland.

"Serhiy Taruta, the country’s 16th-richest man, was put in charge of the strategic coal mining region of Donetsk.
Serhiy Taruta is a Ukrainian businessman, chairman of Industrial Union of Donbas, and President of FC Metalurh Donetsk. According to Forbes magazine, he ranks among the 500 richest people in the world, with his estimated wealth being around 2 billion US dollars. [2]

"Most eyebrow-raising is the role of Ukraine’s richest man, billionaire Rinat Akhmetov, former money backer of Yanukovych. Akhmetov has pledged to 'do everything possible to maintain the integrity of our country.'

"Akhmetov, whose SCM Group controls nearly half of the country’s coal, steel, ore and thermoelectricity sectors is listed as the 47th richest man in the world with an estimated net worth of US 15.4 billion.

"He allegedly won his billions through ties to organized crime..."

What happens to Ukraine will be a model for the rest of us | Veterans Today

Nowhere here do I see evidence of a US -engineered coup in Ukraine in 2014.

What would you consider evidence, and are you willing to wait 60 years for it?

"The Central Intelligence Agency was behind the overthrow of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh in 1953. It's been an open secret for decades, but last week,(9/13) The George Washington University's National Security Archive released newly declassified documents proving it.

"Orchestrating the Iranian coup d'état was a first for the CIA and would serve as the template for future Cold War covert operations worldwide."

Declassified Documents Reveal CIA Role In 1953 Iranian Coup : NPR

 

[georgephillip]

These Putin propagandist want you the think that for some reason, if the wrong Ukrainians came to power in Ukraine, a foreign country, specifically Russia has some kind of right to interfere with the Ukrainians who came to power (the parliament was elected and impeached the President). That is the propaganda the Russian's are using. They contest the way the Parliament fulfilled it's constitutional obligations and rights.They insist some of the Ukrainian's who came to power are bad people, Nazi's. Therefore the Russian's have the right to invade Ukraine. No discussions with other countries, no UN or neutral observers. Just the Russian's. For the record, the world accepts the current government in Kiev as legitimate and rejects the annexing of Crimea.

The US engineered a coup that was spearheaded by neo-Nazis on Russia's western border. What would you expect Putin to do? How would the US respond to similar Russian "Democracy enhancement" in Mexico?

We engineered the coup? I am just sure you can give me a link for that, right?

Sure, I can.
Of course you may have to wait 60 years for the "official" version to be declassified.

"Lawmakers in Ukraine unveiled an interim government Wednesday, to be led by Arseniy Yatsenyuk as prime minister. Yatsenyuk, or 'Yats,' is the opposition leader who top U.S. diplomat Victoria Nuland clearly favors in a leaked phone call released before Yanukovych’s ouster.

"Victoria Nuland: 'I think Yats is the guy who’s got the economic experience, the governing experience. He’s the guy — you know, what he needs is Klitsch and Tyahnybok on the outside. He needs to be talking to them four times a week. You know, I just think Klitsch going in, he’s going to be at that level working for Yatsenyuk. It’s just not going to work.'"

Headlines for February 27, 2014 | Democracy Now!

Since the end of WWII, the US has been accused of arranging coups in countries ranging from Iran to Nicaragua to South Vietnam to Chile and beyond.

Anyone interested in finding out the truth about recent events in Ukraine should begin by remembering last August and the lies this administration told about who was responsible for crossing the "red line" in Syria.

The stakes are even bigger in Ukraine since the US wants to stop the further economic integration of Europe and Asia and control the flow of energy from East to West...

"...it wants to establish a de facto tollbooth between the continents, it wants to ensure that those deals are transacted in US dollars and recycled into US Treasuries, and it wants to situate itself between the two most prosperous markets of the next century.

"Anyone who has even the sketchiest knowledge of US foreign policy– particularly as it relates to Washington’s 'pivot to Asia'– knows this is so. The US is determined to play a dominant role in Eurasia in the years ahead. Wreaking havoc in Ukraine is a central part of that plan."

Is Putin Being Lured Into a Trap? » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

 

[RoadVirus]

Ukraine leader says anti-terror operation under way in Donetsk region - CNN.com

So Putin says there are no Russian solider or special ops involved. Let's see what he does now.

I fully expect the Putin lovers on here to begin their defense of their beloved comrade soon.

Good to see the Ukrainian gov't finally showing some balls.

But of course, Putin will say "Look! They are oppressing Russians! I have every right to attack now!" and Russia's "peaceful occupation" of the area will be justified (at least in his fucked up mind).

It is an illegal group holding power in Kiev. There is no elected government. You really need to start with the basics. These are the people who appointed themselves the rulers after the coup.

They're only illegal in your mind because they don't suck on Putin's pud.

 

[georgephillip]

"KRAMATORSK/SLAVIANSK, Ukraine (Reuters) - Separatists flew the Russian flag on armored vehicles taken from the Ukrainian army on Wednesday, humiliating a Kiev government operation to recapture eastern towns controlled by pro-Moscow partisans.

"Six armored personnel carriers were driven into the rebel-held town of Slaviansk to waves and shouts of "Russia! Russia!". It was not immediately clear whether they had been captured by rebels or handed over to them by Ukrainian deserters.

"Another 15 armored troop carriers full of paratroops were surrounded and halted by a pro-Russian crowd at a town near an airbase. They were allowed to retreat only after the soldiers handed the firing pins from their rifles to a rebel commander.

"The military setback leaves Kiev looking weak on the eve of a peace conference on Thursday, when its foreign minister will meet his Russian, U.S. and European counterparts in Geneva."

Pro-Russia separatists take armor, humiliating Ukraine forces

 

[Kondor3]

"KRAMATORSK/SLAVIANSK, Ukraine (Reuters) - Separatists flew the Russian flag on armored vehicles taken from the Ukrainian army on Wednesday, humiliating a Kiev government operation to recapture eastern towns controlled by pro-Moscow partisans.

"Six armored personnel carriers were driven into the rebel-held town of Slaviansk to waves and shouts of "Russia! Russia!". It was not immediately clear whether they had been captured by rebels or handed over to them by Ukrainian deserters.

"Another 15 armored troop carriers full of paratroops were surrounded and halted by a pro-Russian crowd at a town near an airbase. They were allowed to retreat only after the soldiers handed the firing pins from their rifles to a rebel commander.

"The military setback leaves Kiev looking weak on the eve of a peace conference on Thursday, when its foreign minister will meet his Russian, U.S. and European counterparts in Geneva."

Pro-Russia separatists take armor, humiliating Ukraine forces

As I read it, the Ukrainian troops sent to quell the rebellion, traveling in a convoy of A(rmored) P(ersonnel) C(arrier)s [ APC's ] and trucks, were met outside one of the Eastern Ukrainian towns by hundreds of townfolk, who explained that the Kiev government had been bullshitting the troops about who was rebelling against Kiev, that there were no Russian troops or militia in their towns, and requesting the troops not to fire upon their fellow countrymen and kinsmen who had taken-up the latest Rebel (anti-Kiev) stance.

Those same reports indicated that the Ukrainians had voluntarily ceased obeying Kiev's orders, and were either (1) turning back, in some cases or (2) joining the Rebels; turning over some of their APC's to the latest Rebel Militia in the process and saying that they could not bring themselves to fire upon their own countrymen.

That's another can of worms, of course, but switching-sides or voluntarily yielding your vehicles rather than being compelled, is not the same thing as having those APCs "taken" from them by force of arms or being maneuvered into a hopeless tactical situation.

In the end, of course, either way, the Eastern Ukrainian (anti-Kiev) forces in that location are now in possession of the APCs, and now have some new and well-trained troops to join the local-yokels in opposing Kiev.

This may not be a uniquely Eastern Provinces rebellion against Kiev after all, but it's too early to say, for sure.

 

[georgephillip]

"KRAMATORSK/SLAVIANSK, Ukraine (Reuters) - Separatists flew the Russian flag on armored vehicles taken from the Ukrainian army on Wednesday, humiliating a Kiev government operation to recapture eastern towns controlled by pro-Moscow partisans.

"Six armored personnel carriers were driven into the rebel-held town of Slaviansk to waves and shouts of "Russia! Russia!". It was not immediately clear whether they had been captured by rebels or handed over to them by Ukrainian deserters.

"Another 15 armored troop carriers full of paratroops were surrounded and halted by a pro-Russian crowd at a town near an airbase. They were allowed to retreat only after the soldiers handed the firing pins from their rifles to a rebel commander.

"The military setback leaves Kiev looking weak on the eve of a peace conference on Thursday, when its foreign minister will meet his Russian, U.S. and European counterparts in Geneva."

Pro-Russia separatists take armor, humiliating Ukraine forces

As I read it, the Ukrainian troops sent to quell the rebellion, traveling in a convoy of A(rmored) P(ersonnel) C(arrier)s [ APC's ] and trucks, were met outside one of the Eastern Ukrainian towns by hundreds of townfolk, who explained that the Kiev government had been bullshitting the troops about who was rebelling against Kiev, that there were no Russian troops or militia in their towns, and requesting the troops not to fire upon their fellow countrymen and kinsmen who had taken-up the latest Rebel (anti-Kiev) stance.

Those same reports indicated that the Ukrainians had voluntarily ceased obeying Kiev's orders, and were either (1) turning back, in some cases or (2) joining the Rebels; turning over some of their APC's to the latest Rebel Militia in the process and saying that they could not bring themselves to fire upon their own countrymen.

That's another can of worms, of course, but switching-sides or voluntarily yielding your vehicles rather than being compelled, is not the same thing as having those APCs "taken" from them by force of arms or being maneuvered into a hopeless tactical situation.

In the end, of course, either way, the Eastern Ukrainian (anti-Kiev) forces in that location are now in possession of the APCs, and now have some new and well-trained troops to join the local-yokels in opposing Kiev.

This may not be a uniquely Eastern Provinces rebellion against Kiev after all, but it's too early to say, for sure.

I'm sure you're right about it being too early to tell how this will play out.
There was a much different outcome today in Mariupol:

"One person was killed and twelve others injured by gunfire in a confrontation between anti-Maidan protesters and soldiers stationed at an Interior Ministry base in the Ukrainian city of Mariupol, the town’s website reported."

http://rt.com/news/mariupol-base-shooting-ukraine-008/

Reports I've seen indicate hard-core nationalists from Western Ukraine have been bused from Kiev to cities like Mariupol.

I don't expect they'll hand over their firing pins or APCs.

 

[drake23]

Someone should really put a stop to this :s

 

[8236]

I'm really impressed for once about the level of debate going on on a US message board thread. The situation in (the) Ukraine is very complex, with hubris and hypocracy in free flow from both ex-soviet sides - not to mention the USA. Perhaps those commentators who perpetually make cynical/moronic comments about "Eurabia" and the EU need to read some of the above posts so they can understand why the EU is not as gung-ho about this issue as the US government appears to be. It is a very serious issue with potentially far more important/dangerous consequences for Europe than for the US.

PS. I for one can not imagine an attitude of 'fuck the USA' or 'fuck Russia' even crossing the mind of a senior European state's government official, let alone being let loose on a phone line.

 

[Camp]

I'm really impressed for once about the level of debate going on on a US message board thread. The situation in (the) Ukraine is very complex, with hubris and hypocracy in free flow from both ex-soviet sides - not to mention the USA. Perhaps those commentators who perpetually make cynical/moronic comments about "Eurabia" and the EU need to read some of the above posts so they can understand why the EU is not as gung-ho about this issue as the US government appears to be. It is a very serious issue with potentially far more important/dangerous consequences for Europe than for the US.

PS. I for one can not imagine an attitude of 'fuck the USA' or 'fuck Russia' even crossing the mind of a senior European state's government official, let alone being let loose on a phone line.

Be easy on us chap. Percentage wise you probably have just as many idiots over there as we have over here.

 

[52ndStreet]

Ukraine leader says anti-terror operation under way in Donetsk region - CNN.com

So Putin says there are no Russian solider or special ops involved. Let's see what he does now.

I fully expect the Putin lovers on here to begin their defense of their beloved comrade soon.

The Siberian Gulags are in need of more bodies. Russia wants to put Ukrainians in Siberian Gulags.

The Communists want total world domination. This is all part of their Communist manifesto.
Regardless of if the world wants Communism or not.!

 

[georgephillip]

"Before taking comfort in Moscow’s predicament, however, it is important to ask whether an angry, nationalistic, aggressive, and cornered Russia is in the interest of Ukraine or the West.

"The stark fact is that Russia has the capacity to make life miserable for its neighbors, including Ukraine, and it will be much easier, and less costly, for Russia to undermine Ukraine’s economy and destabilize it politically than it will be for the West to turn the economy around and consolidate Ukrainian democracy.

"

More importantly, Russia has a great preponderance of force along its borders.

"If Putin is backed into a corner politically, or if he feels Russia’s national security interests are sufficiently threatened, he may well decide to invade eastern Ukraine.

"If that happens, Latvia and Estonia will be at great risk — both of these very small NATO countries share a border with Russia, have significant Russian-speaking populations, have tense relations with Moscow, and are virtually defenseless against a Russian ground invasion.

"Were NATO to respond to a Russian incursion into eastern Ukraine by providing Estonia and Latvia with more credible defenses or by supplying Ukraine with lethal equipment, Russia might well decide to preempt and invade those countries as well.

"And of course a hostile and lawless Russia can do great harm to Western interests globally, whether in Iran and Syria today or some other crisis in the future.

"In short, a permanently hostile and threatening Russia is not in anyone’s interest, least of all Ukraine’s."

Of course it would provide at least another generation of big profits for Wall Street and Haliburton and the global 1%.

Carnegie Corporation of New York:*Rebuilding U.S.-Russia Relations

 

[52ndStreet]

"Before taking comfort in Moscow’s predicament, however, it is important to ask whether an angry, nationalistic, aggressive, and cornered Russia is in the interest of Ukraine or the West.

"The stark fact is that Russia has the capacity to make life miserable for its neighbors, including Ukraine, and it will be much easier, and less costly, for Russia to undermine Ukraine’s economy and destabilize it politically than it will be for the West to turn the economy around and consolidate Ukrainian democracy.

"

More importantly, Russia has a great preponderance of force along its borders.

"If Putin is backed into a corner politically, or if he feels Russia’s national security interests are sufficiently threatened, he may well decide to invade eastern Ukraine.

"If that happens, Latvia and Estonia will be at great risk — both of these very small NATO countries share a border with Russia, have significant Russian-speaking populations, have tense relations with Moscow, and are virtually defenseless against a Russian ground invasion.

"Were NATO to respond to a Russian incursion into eastern Ukraine by providing Estonia and Latvia with more credible defenses or by supplying Ukraine with lethal equipment, Russia might well decide to preempt and invade those countries as well.

"And of course a hostile and lawless Russia can do great harm to Western interests globally, whether in Iran and Syria today or some other crisis in the future.

"In short, a permanently hostile and threatening Russia is not in anyone’s interest, least of all Ukraine’s."

Of course it would provide at least another generation of big profits for Wall Street and Haliburton and the global 1%.

Carnegie Corporation of New York:*Rebuilding U.S.-Russia Relations

We must remember that Russia lost many millions of people during WWII. And has vowed not to
allow this to happen again.The German Nazi slaughtered many russians, and starved them during the winter months. They feel they must control the border countries for their own future protection against invasion.

 

[tinydancer]

Good to see the Ukrainian gov't finally showing some balls.

But of course, Putin will say "Look! They are oppressing Russians! I have every right to attack now!" and Russia's "peaceful occupation" of the area will be justified (at least in his fucked up mind).

It is an illegal group holding power in Kiev. There is no elected government. You really need to start with the basics. These are the people who appointed themselves the rulers after the coup.

They're only illegal in your mind because they don't suck on Putin's pud.

No it's illegal because it was a violent overthrow of a duly elected government by the opposition parties.

It's illegal because the impeachment was unconstitutional. The opposition goons were in such a rush to seize power they did not follow their constitution.

Get a freaking grip here. I base my opinions on facts. Not a hard on for or against Russia.

And what is really getting me is the sheer volume of conservatives out there who know damn well that this administration has lied repeatedly over Benghazi and Fast and Furious and the IRS and about Syria. The list of the lies are endless.

But you believe this one from the White House and the media? You take the shit they are handing you on freaking face value even knowing that they lie non stop about everything?

That all of this is just about "bad bad Russia"?

You believe "this one"? It's bloody unreal.

 

[tinydancer]

Ukraine leader says anti-terror operation under way in Donetsk region - CNN.com

So Putin says there are no Russian solider or special ops involved. Let's see what he does now.

I fully expect the Putin lovers on here to begin their defense of their beloved comrade soon.

The Siberian Gulags are in need of more bodies. Russia wants to put Ukrainians in Siberian Gulags.

The Communists want total world domination. This is all part of their Communist manifesto.
Regardless of if the world wants Communism or not.!

World domination? Let's see. Since the USSR broke up, Russia has only had one incursion into Georgia.

Mmmmm. Mmmm. Mmmmmm.

As compared to the west. Off the top of my head before I run the dog, we have Iraq I. Bosnia, Iraq II, Afghanistan (I beleive we have been there longer than the USSR was), interference in Egypt, Libya, Syria and now the Ukraine.

This is what we know of.

Okey dokey. By my math in the contest for world domination....

Russia 1 vs the West 8.

And the winner trying for world domination and interference, ding, ding, ding.

The west.

 

[georgephillip]

For 99% of Ukrainians, their future is clear:

"Especially here in the east, where cultural and economic ties to Russia are far stronger than in western Ukraine, the bailout is hurting the government’s popularity among an already skeptical audience.

"Residents are bracing for the worst.

"A rollback of long-generous subsidies on natural gas will raise the rate consumers pay on their heating and cooking bills by roughly 63 percent next month.

"About 24,000 state workers and 80,000 police officers nationwide are set to be laid off.

"Taxes on vodka, beer and cigarettes will soon go up.

"Changes in property tax calculations mean that many Ukrainian homeowners will soon be paying more."

In Ukraine, a crisis of bullets and economics - The Washington Post