Zone1 Unbeliever: You Are Responsible

[XponentialChaos]

In fact, their interpretation from the English/Modern Western Culture makes perfect sense.

It makes perfect sense despite you disagreeing with it. It makes perfect sense despite you saying:

(I am surprised it makes sense to so many non-Catholic Christians!)

 

[XponentialChaos]

What is it you think we want to see?

I think you read what you want to believe. I think other people are going to read what they want to believe.

That’s why we get different interpretations from the same text.

 

[XponentialChaos]

I actually believe GOD. I believe Jesus

I don't try to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Some people claiming to be Christian can't accept that unless a homosexual REPENTS he will not see the Kingdom of God. So they twist scripture beyond all sense. That's not my problem. It's THEIRS

Trying to fit a square peg in a round hole is a perfect analogy.

I think (some) people want to believe that God wouldn’t send non-believers to Hell. So they twist the scripture until it aligns with what they want to believe.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Presenting an interpretation is not the same as proclaiming or insisting it is right. It is merely saying, "I see it this way." No one is solving a math problem where there is only one correct answer. We are discussing a philosophy. It appears your religious background emphasized only one right answer.

A lot of what we learned as kids in Catholic religion classes were how even our most famous Saints disagreed with one another. There are very few things that are a "must" to be Catholic. There is a great deal where one can make up one's own mind. A well known one in Catholicism is whether God used a literal six day creation, or whether He used evolution over millions of years.

Evolution is incompatible with Creation. Of course you'll say that is my interpretation, but it can't be honestly refuted. The Church, compromising with the world, is how THAT church became doctrinally corrupt
Carl - in - Michigan

 

[XponentialChaos]

Presenting an interpretation is not the same as proclaiming or insisting it is right. It is merely saying, "I see it this way." No one is solving a math problem where there is only one correct answer. We are discussing a philosophy. It appears your religious background emphasized only one right answer.

According to your religion, God either allows people to go to Heaven without accepting Jesus Christ as their lord and savior or he doesn’t. No matter how you slice it, there’s one true answer. If you believe you’re correct then you’re saying that you believe Carl is wrong. And vice versa.

You can be polite about your disagreements, and you are, but that doesn’t change the binary nature of that question. You can’t both be right.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

CARL- IN - ANN ARBOR

Home of one of the most iconic American-made 35mm rangefinder cameras ever made.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Home of one of the most iconic American-made 35mm rangefinder cameras ever made.

It's a great town. One of the best
.except I don't actually live there but about 30 miles away

 

[Meriweather]

It makes perfect sense despite you disagreeing with it. It makes perfect sense despite you saying:

How odd. You have never disagreed with something but understood why some do? You have never been surprised at the number who accept certain things as true? Off hand, I can think of those who believe in a flat earth, those who believe the moon landing is a hoax, those who believe all those who do not accept Christ are destined for hell.

 

[Meriweather]

I think you read what you want to believe.

Even despite the fact I have said I believe because of what I have experienced? It seems you are going to ignore that and believe what you want to believe about me.

 

[Meriweather]

Carl - in - Michigan

Grin. Naturally I see that now. Before I saw two cities. Well, one small town and a city.

 

[Meriweather]

According to your religion, God either allows people to go to Heaven without accepting Jesus Christ as their lord and savior or he doesn’t. No matter how you slice it, there’s one true answer. If you believe you’re correct then you’re saying that you believe Carl is wrong. And vice versa.

That is your interpretation of me. What I see are Carl's beliefs. He has read/studied certain things and reached a conclusion. The same is true of you. You read/heard certain things and formed your own belief/non-belief from your conclusions. While I don't know, I expect you and Carl have also had your own experiences that shaped your conclusions.

I have said many times in this forum that the person in the world who understands God best (and that includes atheists) is a millimeter closer to understanding God than the rest of usI understand God about as well as my chinchillas understand me. Basically, not very well. My chinchillas do their best, and I, like everyone else, does our best.

 

[Meriweather]

If you believe you’re correct then you’re saying that you believe Carl is wrong. And vice versa.

You can be polite about your disagreements, and you are, but that doesn’t change the binary nature of that question. You can’t both be right.

Philosophy (and religion is a philosophy) is not about who is right or wrong. I have two daughters meaning I enjoy two different relationships. Tell me, which relationship is wrong? You and Carl share your beliefs/philosophy with me. It is what happened in my family all throughout my life. It is foreign to me to think of religious discussion in terms of "right/wrong". In our family we supported each other in our various beliefs. I guess I imagined the same of all families/friends. You seemed to have experienced the opposite. So were one of our experiences right and the other's experiences wrong? Sorry, I can't see or even imagine it that way.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

According to your religion, God either allows people to go to Heaven without accepting Jesus Christ as their lord and savior or he doesn’t. No matter how you slice it, there’s one true answer. If you believe you’re correct then you’re saying that you believe Carl is wrong. And vice versa.

You can be polite about your disagreements, and you are, but that doesn’t change the binary nature of that question. You can’t both be right.

This is EXACTLY why there cannot be "many paths" to God. Either Christ meant what He said, or He is a liar. "Belief" makes no difference.

What I disagree with most Christians on is TODAY isn't EVERYONE'S only chance. I agree with another poster who said everyone will have their clear chance. Today is MY day of salvation because I have been called. I understand and therefore God holds me accountable. Everyone else who has yet to be called will have their chance in the future as well the billions who never heard the Name -& as will the Jews who have been blinded for the last 2,000 years

 

[XponentialChaos]

How odd. You have never disagreed with something but understood why some do?

For people who think the moon landing is fake, I wouldn’t say their beliefs make perfect sense. Would you?

 

[XponentialChaos]

Even despite the fact I have said I believe because of what I have experienced? It seems you are going to ignore that and believe what you want to believe about me.

Your experiences. Your perspectives. All of that is going to make you read the same book and come up with the conclusions you want to get out of it.

 

[XponentialChaos]

That is your interpretation of me. What I see are Carl's beliefs. He has read/studied certain things and reached a conclusion. The same is true of you. You read/heard certain things and formed your own belief/non-belief from your conclusions. While I don't know, I expect you and Carl have also had your own experiences that shaped your conclusions.

I have said many times in this forum that the person in the world who understands God best (and that includes atheists) is a millimeter closer to understanding God than the rest of usI understand God about as well as my chinchillas understand me. Basically, not very well. My chinchillas do their best, and I, like everyone else, does our best.

There’s still one true answer. And you two have exact opposite conclusions for it. Both of you can’t be right.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Philosophy (and religion is a philosophy) is not about who is right or wrong. I have two daughters meaning I enjoy two different relationships. Tell me, which relationship is wrong?

Nobody said that one of those is relationships is wrong.

Whether a non-believer can make it to Heaven without accepting Jesus Christ as their lord and savior has exactly two possible outcomes. Yes he does allow them in or no he doesn’t. One or the other. Right or wrong. Either you are correct on that question or Carl is. I don’t see how you can possibly misunderstand this.

This isn’t about a “wrong relationship“. Whatever that’s supposed to mean.

 

[XponentialChaos]

This is EXACTLY why there cannot be "many paths" to God. Either Christ meant what He said, or He is a liar. "Belief" makes no difference.

What I disagree with most Christians on is TODAY isn't EVERYONE'S only chance. I agree with another poster who said everyone will have their clear chance. Today is MY day of salvation because I have been called. I understand and therefore God holds me accountable. Everyone else who has yet to be called will have their chance in the future as well the billions who never heard the Name -& as will the Jews who have been blinded for the last 2,000 years

So how do you two read the same text and contradict each other?

 

[Meriweather]

Your experiences. Your perspectives. All of that is going to make you read the same book and come up with the conclusions you want to get out of it.

Please don't project what you do onto me. I am interested in perspectives--and that includes perspectives of earlier generations.

Not everything is about me--and when it comes to the Bible, very little is about me. As I said before, my first step was to seek and find God. Then it was a matter of comparing my experience with the experience of others. They varied.

Since you apparently know me so well, why don't you tell me what I want to get out of it? Are you telling me that you did not want to get anything out of it and therefore didn't?

 

[XponentialChaos]

Please don't project what you do onto me. I am interested in perspectives--and that includes perspectives of earlier generations.

You asked for my perspective. I’m just explaining what I think.