Zone1 Unbeliever: You Are Responsible

[XponentialChaos]

Do you follow a religion?

No.

 

[Meriweather]

No.

Never had the urge to explore the beyond, then. Interesting times., but not for everyone.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Never had the urge to explore the beyond, then. Interesting times., but not for everyone.

I was raised into that stuff. Eventually decided to go my own way. You know, lemming and all.

 

[Meriweather]

I was raised into that stuff. Eventually decided to go my own way. You know, lemming and all.

Grin. Lemming is right...you joined the ever growing group that leaves religion!

We spoke of how worldwide, the majority of Christians are Catholic. Note your reaction. You kept insisting non-Catholic Christians are the majority when a simple online search would confirm what I said. Now, I understand that it may be in the area you live, the majority are non-Catholic Christians. But world-wide...

We also spoke of people taking one or two verses from a single Gospel and building entire dogmas from them. So my question for you...why that verse?

The first verse I took very much to heart at a very young age about God was, "Seek and you shall find."

That took years. Almost a decade. I find it astonishing the number of people who are more interested in telling people about hell than telling people about God.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Grin. Lemming is right...you joined the ever growing group that leaves religion!

That doesn’t make any sense for multiple reasons.

- The amount of religious people is far greater than the amount of non-religious people.

- I was raised in a family that did that stuff. I was taught to believe it. Nobody taught me to walk away from it. I just did.

- I walked away a long time ago. It has since grown in popularity. It was far less socially acceptable back then.

I know you’re attached to that word to describe me but it’s just not working.

 

[Meriweather]

Relax, I am merely teasing and should remember to leave comedy to those who know what they are doing. Offending others is wrong, and I apologize for that.

- The amount of religious people is far greater than the amount of non-religious people.

Which means?

- I was raised in a family that did that stuff. I was taught to believe it. Nobody taught me to walk away from it. I just did.

I was raised in a family that did all kinds of "stuff". There were also atheists. In the Catholic school I attended were were told in a matter of fact way that only about one in four would remain practicing Catholics. That proved to be the case in my family as well. Never occurred to me people could not walk away, change their minds, etc. No one thought the atheists were going to hell. As a priest once said, "Do you love your atheist and non-Christian friends and family? Would you send them to hell? God's love for them is much greater." We were taught that God sends no one to hell. People choose hell. And guess what, hell is not Dante's Inferno. Hell is total separation from God and it is a personal choice.

- I walked away a long time ago. It has since grown in popularity. It was far less socially acceptable back then.

Where do you live? I understand in some parts of the country this is the case, but it wasn't in the West where I grew up.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Relax, I am merely teasing and should remember to leave comedy to those who know what they are doing. Offending others is wrong, and I apologize for that.

I am relaxed.

Which means?

If you're going to say that I joined the "ever growing group", then I'm going to explain to you that the group you're in is in the vast majority. Maybe now you will see why your argument doesn't work.

I was raised in a family that did all kinds of "stuff". There were also atheists...

I didn't ask what you were raised in. I'm merely pointing out that I didn't follow what I was taught to believe. Once again countering your claim.

Where do you live? I understand in some parts of the country this is the case, but it wasn't in the West where I grew up.

California.

 

[XponentialChaos]

No one thought the atheists were going to hell.

The vast majority of your fellow Christians are going to disagree with you. They will claim that your atheist friends and family will be going to Hell.

 

[Meriweather]

If you're going to say that I joined the "ever growing group", then I'm going to explain to you that the group you're in is in the vast majority. Maybe now you will see why your argument doesn't work.

Shrug. My grandfather joined in the 1920s. More have joined since then, and I expect that includes you. It sounds like you grew up where the "vast majority" were Christians and expected to remain Christians. That wasn't my own upbringing so I perceive you as quite ordinary, not someone who did something radically different. Online, some people have been amazed I married an atheist. For me, it was nothing out of the ordinary. My grandmother married an atheist. Some of my atheist uncles married people of deep faith. To me, that is the norm. Obviously, your experience varied.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Shrug. My grandfather joined in the 1920s. More have joined since then, and I expect that includes you. It sounds like you grew up where the "vast majority" were Christians and expected to remain Christians.

Correct and correct.

 

[Meriweather]

The vast majority of your fellow Christians are going to disagree with you. They will claim that your atheist friends and family will be going to Hell.

Not to mention the Jews and Buddhists in the family! According to them, it will be quite the family reunion.

As I said earlier, those who focus on hell are going to have a different perception, a fairly narrow one. Again, I recommend studying the culture of the day--what the word translated as 'condemned' referenced then as opposed to the way many reference it today. I always recommend seeking and finding God before picking up the Bible. Then, upon picking it up, don't read it--study it carefully, word by word.

And no, the above paragraph doesn't mean you or any steadfast atheist who steadfastly believe there is no God.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Not to mention the Jews and Buddhists in the family! According to them, it will be quite the family reunion.

Yup. They think we’re all going to Hell.

As I said earlier, those who focus on hell are going to have a different perception, a fairly narrow one. Again, I recommend studying the culture of the day--what the word translated as 'condemned' referenced then as opposed to the way many reference it today. I always recommend seeking and finding God before picking up the Bible. Then, upon picking it up, don't read it--study it carefully, word by word.

The majority of Christians still disagree with you on that interpretation. They would say that you’re wrong for saying they have a narrow perception. They would even say the same about you. I see it all the time.

From my perspective, you people all just kind of see what you want to see. Hence why you read the same text and arrive at very different interpretations for very simple questions like this.

Rather than thoughtfully engaging with each other over these differences, seems like you guys would rather just insist to me that your interpretation is the correct one and theirs doesn’t make sense. It all looks silly to me. Both sides claiming to me that they’re the TRUE Scotsmen.

 

[Meriweather]

Rather than thoughtfully engaging with each other over these differences, seems like you guys would rather just insist to me that your interpretation is the correct one and theirs doesn’t make sense. It all looks silly to me.

In fact, their interpretation from the English/Modern Western Culture makes perfect sense. That is why it does not bother me that people hold the "You're going to hell" perspective. However, an an in depth study of the Biblical culture and language of that time results in a quite different perspective. The perspective of one who hold no belief in God doesn't care about either perspective because that perspective is no afterlife at all.

I do not find any perspective silly--I find them all interesting, especially how and when they emerged, and am always on the lookout for still another perspective. I once studied with an atheist Jew whose first language was Hebrew. From rabbis he learned that the key is to study not read--and to continue these studies for one's entire life. He emphasized the importance of original context and the original meaning of words.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I don't know how Carlin communicates with God

Why can't people get this right?????

What is so difficult??????

CARL- IN - ANN ARBOR

My name is CARL.

Youre not the only one. But honestly, I don't see what is so hard.

My actual name is CARL. Not Carlin

You people !

 

[Meriweather]

From my perspective, you people all just kind of see what you want to see. Hence why you read the same text and arrive at very different interpretations for very simple questions like this.

What is it you think we want to see?

After my own experience of God, I could not understand the Old Testament portrayal of God. Why would they portray God in such an unloving light? Turns out studying it from the the perspective of the culture of the time, using the original Hebrew brought an entirely different understanding of the text than what is presented in modern English and present Western culture.

I still emphasize seek and find God first. Then study.

 

[Meriweather]

My actual name is CARL. Not Carlin

I will try to remember, but I never have been great with names! Yes, I know--try harder!

 

[Carl in Michigan]

seems like you guys would rather just insist to me that your interpretation is the correct one and theirs doesn’t make sense

I actually believe GOD. I believe Jesus

I don't try to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Some people claiming to be Christian can't accept that unless a homosexual REPENTS he will not see the Kingdom of God. So they twist scripture beyond all sense. That's not my problem. It's THEIRS

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I will try to remember, but I never have been great with names! Yes, I know--try harder!

Carl.

How is that hard? Is Carlin even a name????

 

[Meriweather]

Rather than thoughtfully engaging with each other over these differences, seems like you guys would rather just insist to me that your interpretation is the correct one and theirs doesn’t make sense. It all looks silly to me. Both sides claiming to me that they’re the TRUE Scotsmen.

Presenting an interpretation is not the same as proclaiming or insisting it is right. It is merely saying, "I see it this way." No one is solving a math problem where there is only one correct answer. We are discussing a philosophy. It appears your religious background emphasized only one right answer.

A lot of what we learned as kids in Catholic religion classes were how even our most famous Saints disagreed with one another. There are very few things that are a "must" to be Catholic. There is a great deal where one can make up one's own mind. A well known one in Catholicism is whether God used a literal six day creation, or whether He used evolution over millions of years.

 

[Meriweather]

Is Carlin even a name????

I spend a lot of time traveling through Nevada. I often fill up in Carlin, Nevada. Leaped to the wrong conclusion that you spent time in both Carlin and Ann Arbor.