Zone1 Unbeliever: You Are Responsible

[braalian]

From pastor James Johnston:

"If you are not a believer, you are responsible for what the skies above have been telling you since the day you were born. You ought to worship God. The apostle Paul writes in Romans 1:20--'For His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made, so they are without excuse.'"

And from Psalm 19:

"The heavens declare the glory of God
And the sky above proclaims His handiwork.
Day to day pours out speech
And night to night reveals knowledge."

Note that there is a message in the beauty, wonder, and majesty of the heavens. Do not miss it. Today is the day of salvation!

Meh.

 

[SweetSue92]

Based on what you have said, I understand your not-so-difficult beliefs to be:

• Believe God punished Jesus, the man without sins, for the sins of all mankind.
• Believe Jesus died and was resurrected three days later.
• Believe Jesus is Lord and Savior
• Those who believe this will reside forever in heaven after death.
• Those who do not believe this, will reside forever in a fiery, tormenting hell.

Is it your understanding this is the Great Commission Jesus gave his followers?

You are right, it is not difficult. It is that way on purpose: simple enough my 6 yo Sunday School students can understand the basics; complex enough to ponder for a lifetime. It's that beautiful.

Your teachings are the most pernicious and dangerous of all. You are Jesus-adjacent without delivering the life-sustaining message. Do you realize this? Your message is like giving a patient with Stage 4 Cancer a band aid and Tylenol. Here, here, Jesus will make you feel better for a little bit, it will be a journey with struggles, don't worry, this will help a little.

Meanwhile, they are still DYING.

If the Gospel is true, give it as a bolus.

If it is not true, we are most to be pitied, says Paul himself.

 

[Meriweather]

You are right, it is not difficult. It is that way on purpose: simple enough my 6 yo Sunday School students can understand the basics; complex enough to ponder for a lifetime. It's that beautiful.

Such a message explains why so many cease to believe in God--let alone Christianity--by the time they are six. Further, Jesus' Gospel message, when correctly understood, is something much more than something to ponder. It is a way of life to be lived right here on Earth.

 

[SweetSue92]

Such a message explains why so many cease to believe in God--let alone Christianity--by the time they are six. Further, Jesus' Gospel message, when correctly understood, is something much more than something to ponder. It is a way of life to be lived right here on Earth.

So you don't believe the Gospel. Sadly. Right, I knew that. We knew that. Sadly.

 

[Meriweather]

Your teachings are the most pernicious and dangerous of all.

What, precisely, do you find pernicious and dangerous? All I say can be traced back to Jesus' own words. On the other hand, read through the Gospels and find all the passages Jesus said, "God sent me to proclaim I will be punished for the sins of all."

 

[Blues Man]

Such a message explains why so many cease to believe in God--let alone Christianity--by the time they are six. Further, Jesus' Gospel message, when correctly understood, is something much more than something to ponder. It is a way of life to be lived right here on Earth.

You assume that all people believed in your god at some point and then stopped believing.

Literally billions of people have never believed in the god you believe exists so therefore they cannot stop believing

 

[Meriweather]

Do you realize this? Your message is like giving a patient with Stage 4 Cancer a band aid and Tylenol. Here, here, Jesus will make you feel better for a little bit, it will be a journey with struggles, don't worry, this will help a little.

Perhaps contemplate your own perspective. It seems to me like someone who broke a fingernail, and a doctor says, "Here! Let me treat that broken fingernail for four-stage cancer."

Jesus message is for those with broken lives. His message is far from a shrug and a dismissive, All will be better after you die.

 

[Meriweather]

So you don't believe the Gospel. Sadly. Right, I knew that. We knew that. Sadly.

What I do not believe is Sue's perspective of the Gospel. My entire life has been devoted to living Jesus' actual words, not the dogma that surfaced a thousand years later. Do you wish to point out where Jesus said, "The world deserves to be punished, and God will punish a single person for the sins of all. I am that person who will take on God's punishment."

 

[Meriweather]

Right, I knew that. We knew that. Sadly.

Cheer up. You know nothing.

 

[Meriweather]

You assume that all people believed in your god at some point and then stopped believing.

Literally billions of people have never believed in the god you believe exists so therefore they cannot stop believing

Sue and I were speaking of children who are being taught about God and Christianity. Is that your focus? That none of these specific children ever believed? Or, have you moved over to a different focus?

 

[Blues Man]

Sue and I were speaking of children who are being taught about God and Christianity. Is that your focus? That none of these specific children ever believed? Or, have you moved over to a different focus?

Children believe whatever their parents tell them to believe up to a certain age anyway so does that really count as belief?

 

[TNHarley]

skies above have been telling you since the day you were born

The sky doesnt talk to me. As im not a fucking crazy person.

 

[SweetSue92]

What I do not believe is Sue's perspective of the Gospel. My entire life has been devoted to living Jesus' actual words, not the dogma that surfaced a thousand years later. Do you wish to point out where Jesus said, "The world deserves to be punished, and God will punish a single person for the sins of all. I am that person who will take on God's punishment."

It is not my perspective. It is the Gospel.

It is in the Garden.

It is the sacrifice of Isaac.

It is in the Passover.

It is on every page of the OT.

John 3:16

Matthew 26:28 "This is the blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins."

 

[SweetSue92]

Cheer up. You know nothing.

It is always sad when someone knows, but not enough.

You are right about one thing however: walking with Jesus is a journey. But you can't do it if you reject the Gospel. He said so Himself; if you reject the Gospel, you don't have the Spirit. If you don't have the Spirit, you can't know God.

Salvation begins with the Spirit--and THEN begins your journey. Not 'you journey with Jesus and maybe, at the end, you figure it all out'."

There is no figuring is out: "For now we see through the mirror darkly, but then face to face."

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Meriweather Do you believe Christ had to die for your sins? I'm not going to argue with you, I'm just curious where you are. But I will say, it IS the very heart of the Gospel (Good News).

 

[Meriweather]

@Meriweather Do you believe Christ had to die for your sins? I'm not going to argue with you, I'm just curious where you are. But I will say, it IS the very heart of the Gospel (Good News).

No, I do not believe he had to die for our sins. The point is, he did die so that we might be free from sin. Read Jesus' words carefully. He wanted all to know sins ARE forgiven. Not once did he say, "Sins will be forgiven after I have been put to death."

Temple authorities maintained Jesus had no authority to announce repentance for the forgiveness of sins. They insisted there was no such covenant between God and man for Jesus to make any such pronouncement. Jesus insisted he had been given the authority, by God, for this message. Temple authorities said, Nope, no such Covenant/Testament exists. Covenants required a blood sacrifice.

Had everyone believed and supported Jesus about Repentance for the forgiveness of sins, no need for death. Note that Jesus said sometimes the seed has to die before it can go on to produce abundantly. He was willing to lay down his life over repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Ironically, because he did, the Temple authorities had their blood sacrifice that identifies a Covenant/Testament between God and man. Talk about a final sacrifice!

Jesus teaching that God's eternal kingdom is in reach of everyone right now has had a huge impact on my life, because God's kingdom is where we do God's will here on Earth as it is done in heaven. In God's kingdom we turn away from sin to obedience to the will of God. Obedience to God has preserved many of us from committing some sins; turning away from wrong-doing and replacing it with doing right also preserves us from committing sins. God's kingdom never has been something to go to after death. God's kingdom is where we will continue living after death.

To enter God's kingdom and meet him face-to-face in this life, one must follow the Way Jesus taught and walked. He is the Way, the Truth, the Life. No one comes into the Kingdom and face-to-face with God without following Jesus' Way, and his teachings. Following his way is what makes him our Lord; following his teachings about repentance of sins and obedience to God is what makes him our Savior.

 

[Meriweather]

Salvation begins with the Spirit--and THEN begins your journey. Not 'you journey with Jesus and maybe, at the end, you figure it all out'."

If you think that is what I am saying, you are wrong. I don't think you understand what I am saying or pointing out at all.

 

[SweetSue92]

No, I do not believe he had to die for our sins. The point is, he did die so that we might be free from sin. Read Jesus' words carefully. He wanted all to know sins ARE forgiven. Not once did he say, "Sins will be forgiven after I have been put to death."

Temple authorities maintained Jesus had no authority to announce repentance for the forgiveness of sins. They insisted there was no such covenant between God and man for Jesus to make any such pronouncement. Jesus insisted he had been given the authority, by God, for this message. Temple authorities said, Nope, no such Covenant/Testament exists. Covenants required a blood sacrifice.

Had everyone believed and supported Jesus about Repentance for the forgiveness of sins, no need for death. Note that Jesus said sometimes the seed has to die before it can go on to produce abundantly. He was willing to lay down his life over repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Ironically, because he did, the Temple authorities had their blood sacrifice that identifies a Covenant/Testament between God and man. Talk about a final sacrifice!

Jesus teaching that God's eternal kingdom is in reach of everyone right now has had a huge impact on my life, because God's kingdom is where we do God's will here on Earth as it is done in heaven. In God's kingdom we turn away from sin to obedience to the will of God. Obedience to God has preserved many of us from committing some sins; turning away from wrong-doing and replacing it with doing right also preserves us from committing sins. God's kingdom never has been something to go to after death. God's kingdom is where we will continue living after death.

To enter God's kingdom and meet him face-to-face in this life, one must follow the Way Jesus taught and walked. He is the Way, the Truth, the Life. No one comes into the Kingdom and face-to-face with God without following Jesus' Way, and his teachings. Following his way is what makes him our Lord; following his teachings about repentance of sins and obedience to God is what makes him our Savior.

Does repenting of sin render us sinless, as God requires?

So simply saying, "I'm sorry God, forgive me" and then striving to do better makes us sinless?

A Holy God does not require "good enough". He requires perfection. The commandment at the end of the Sermon on the Mount is: "Be perfect, as your Father is perfect"

How is this perfection to be attained? If I thought my repentance were enough to accomplish it, I would do nothing BUT repent, all day, every day. And even THAT would not be enough. Look at the sermon. Do not think ill of others; do not look at lust with another, do not worry. All sins. By that reckoning, none of us are saved.

Repentance never did, and COULD never, achieve the forgiveness of sin. Not completely. That's not to say it's not valuable, even essential. But it would never, not ever, have been enough.

Jesus was able to tell people "Your sins are forgiven" because He is God. He knew who was saved. He KNOWS who is saved. He could see this.

This is not an indication whatsoever that our repentance "activates" a sinless state. Because it does not. I believe it cannot.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

No, I do not believe he had to die for our sins. The point is, he did die so that we might be free from sin. Read Jesus' words carefully. He wanted all to know sins ARE forgiven. Not once did he say, "Sins will be forgiven after I have been put to death."

Temple authorities maintained Jesus had no authority to announce repentance for the forgiveness of sins. They insisted there was no such covenant between God and man for Jesus to make any such pronouncement. Jesus insisted he had been given the authority, by God, for this message. Temple authorities said, Nope, no such Covenant/Testament exists. Covenants required a blood sacrifice.

Had everyone believed and supported Jesus about Repentance for the forgiveness of sins, no need for death. Note that Jesus said sometimes the seed has to die before it can go on to produce abundantly. He was willing to lay down his life over repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Ironically, because he did, the Temple authorities had their blood sacrifice that identifies a Covenant/Testament between God and man. Talk about a final sacrifice!

Jesus teaching that God's eternal kingdom is in reach of everyone right now has had a huge impact on my life, because God's kingdom is where we do God's will here on Earth as it is done in heaven. In God's kingdom we turn away from sin to obedience to the will of God. Obedience to God has preserved many of us from committing some sins; turning away from wrong-doing and replacing it with doing right also preserves us from committing sins. God's kingdom never has been something to go to after death. God's kingdom is where we will continue living after death.

To enter God's kingdom and meet him face-to-face in this life, one must follow the Way Jesus taught and walked. He is the Way, the Truth, the Life. No one comes into the Kingdom and face-to-face with God without following Jesus' Way, and his teachings. Following his way is what makes him our Lord; following his teachings about repentance of sins and obedience to God is what makes him our Savior.

Let me rephrase you that. Do you believe a person can be saved (granted Eternal life) WITHOUT recognizing Christs gift in His sacrifice? It appears you do.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

This is not an indication whatsoever that our repentance "activates" a sinless state. Because it does not. I believe it cannot.

"Do you think they were sinners above all others? I tell you, 'no, they were not.' But, EXCEPT YOU REPENT, YOU SHALL ALL LIKEWISE PERISH! (In the Lake of Fire)