Unequal distribution of wealth

[Richard-H]

I'd like to know why the unequal distribution of wealth is a bad thing. This seems to be a major premise from those on the left, but it's like you just assume it's a bad thing without every really providing evidence or justifying the premise.

Does the phrase 'Thou Shall Not Steal' ring any bells?

Yes, which is precisely why it's obvious why using government to take the wealth of others by force is wrong.

So? The government takes from the thieves and gives to the poor.

 

[Avatar4321]

Does the phrase 'Thou Shall Not Steal' ring any bells?

Yes, which is precisely why it's obvious why using government to take the wealth of others by force is wrong.

So? The government takes from the thieves and gives to the poor.

The government, IE The politicians and the bureaucrats, are the theives. They give to themselves.

You don't steal money from someone by providing them with a good and service that they want.

BTW I noticed you didnt disagree that the government steals money from people. You just think their robbery is justified. So clearly your moral justification for why "unequal distribution of wealth" is wrong is not something you actually believe. If you actually objected to stealing, you would object to stealing in all it's forms. You just object to what you call stealing while justifying the kind you like.

We need to prevent these Robbers from having power in our government or they will cause the collapse of it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, in the case of a guitar, which is a non-essential luxury item, I wasn't the one being theived. But I have no doubt that the workers that actually built the guitar & parts were paid next to nothing. They're the ones that were ripped off.

Well, that just shows us that one shouldn't try to think when one is not equipped for it.

Because guitars of any sort of quality are not interchangeable widgets and cannot be produced by robots like widgets, there is a great deal of handwork that still goes into them, and as such, jobs in guitar factories are not cheap, unskilled labor by any means.

Now, it's entirely possible you own a guitar that's an utter piece of shit. I have no idea, so I can't really speak to those or how they're produced.

Apparently your a person that continually talks out of your ass.

You certainly know nothing about guitars or their manufacture. Ifyou did you would have noticed that I'm playing a Fender Stratocaster in my picture. The same model that Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck play.

Yes, fine guitars do take a lot of craftsmanship, but that doesn't mean that the workers are paid worth a damn.

For someone who wants to claim others are "talking out of their asses", you sure do use a lot of words to say, "I don't know shit, I just make assumptions and state them like fact."

Your first incorrect assumption: that I give enough of a fuck to spend time staring at your ugly-ass avatar picture to try to figure out what kind of guitar you're playing . . . or even really notice that there's a guitar in it.

Your second incorrect assumption: that I have to have lots of personal knowledge and experience with guitars in particular to know that they're not made by unskilled, minimum-wage workers.

Your third, and most incorrect assumption: that all workers are "being ripped off" by their employers, and thus guitar makers are automatically being screwed by theirs, because there's no such thing as a job that pays commensurate with one's skill and employability.

The actual facts: You're a homely little fucker, and your posts are ignorant and boring, and both of you are ultimately and incredibly forgettable.

While I don't play the guitar, I do play other musical instruments, and I have friends who not only play guitars, but also repair them for a living. As such, I have quite a good idea what sort of specialized skill and training it takes to make musical instruments, even base-quality ones intended for beginning students. I have absolutely no reason to believe that guitars require any less skill and care to manufacture than do flutes, pianos, and violins, for example.

There is no "ripoff" involved in working for money in the United States. Employees are paid according to how valuable they are to the company, and how easy they are to replace. Just because YOU believe you are worth more does not actually make that true. If you cannot easily go out and find someone to pay you the same amount or more, then the sad fact is that you are, in fact, worth exactly what you're getting. But that is no more "ripping you off" than you are "ripping off" your cellphone company by finding the one with the lowest prices and then paying them only the absolute minimum required for your service, instead of giving them extra because their service is so good, it's worth more.

 

[bripat9643]

So? The government takes from the thieves and gives to the poor.

taxpayers are thieves?

 

[Richard-H]

Well, that just shows us that one shouldn't try to think when one is not equipped for it.

Because guitars of any sort of quality are not interchangeable widgets and cannot be produced by robots like widgets, there is a great deal of handwork that still goes into them, and as such, jobs in guitar factories are not cheap, unskilled labor by any means.

Now, it's entirely possible you own a guitar that's an utter piece of shit. I have no idea, so I can't really speak to those or how they're produced.

Apparently your a person that continually talks out of your ass.

You certainly know nothing about guitars or their manufacture. Ifyou did you would have noticed that I'm playing a Fender Stratocaster in my picture. The same model that Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck play.

Yes, fine guitars do take a lot of craftsmanship, but that doesn't mean that the workers are paid worth a damn.

For someone who wants to claim others are "talking out of their asses", you sure do use a lot of words to say, "I don't know shit, I just make assumptions and state them like fact."

Your first incorrect assumption: that I give enough of a fuck to spend time staring at your ugly-ass avatar picture to try to figure out what kind of guitar you're playing . . . or even really notice that there's a guitar in it.

Your second incorrect assumption: that I have to have lots of personal knowledge and experience with guitars in particular to know that they're not made by unskilled, minimum-wage workers.

Your third, and most incorrect assumption: that all workers are "being ripped off" by their employers, and thus guitar makers are automatically being screwed by theirs, because there's no such thing as a job that pays commensurate with one's skill and employability.

The actual facts: You're a homely little fucker, and your posts are ignorant and boring, and both of you are ultimately and incredibly forgettable.

While I don't play the guitar, I do play other musical instruments, and I have friends who not only play guitars, but also repair them for a living. As such, I have quite a good idea what sort of specialized skill and training it takes to make musical instruments, even base-quality ones intended for beginning students. I have absolutely no reason to believe that guitars require any less skill and care to manufacture than do flutes, pianos, and violins, for example.

There is no "ripoff" involved in working for money in the United States. Employees are paid according to how valuable they are to the company, and how easy they are to replace. Just because YOU believe you are worth more does not actually make that true. If you cannot easily go out and find someone to pay you the same amount or more, then the sad fact is that you are, in fact, worth exactly what you're getting. But that is no more "ripping you off" than you are "ripping off" your cellphone company by finding the one with the lowest prices and then paying them only the absolute minimum required for your service, instead of giving them extra because their service is so good, it's worth more.

You obviously have no experience in manufacturing and have no idea what factory workers, skilled or unskilled are paid.

I'm an electrical engineer with 20+ years of experience in heavy industry - I design and build things that require quite a bit more skill than guitar building. I know what workers are paid. And yes idiot, I get paid well into the six figure range.

No, there is actually no job that pays any worker their true value - if they did then there would be no profit.

Unions try to get employers to pay the workers something more than slave wages, but still not even close to their true value.

You're obviously completely ignorant of the economics of manufacturing.

 

[Avatar4321]

You obviously have no experience in manufacturing and have no idea what factory workers, skilled or unskilled are paid.

I'm an electrical engineer with 20+ years of experience in heavy industry - I design and build things that require quite a bit more skill than guitar building. I know what workers are paid. And yes idiot, I get paid well into the six figure range.

No, there is actually no job that pays any worker their true value - if they did then there would be no profit.

Unions try to get employers to pay the workers something more than slave wages, but still not even close to their true value.

You're obviously completely ignorant of the economics of manufacturing.

Because you say so.

BTW you do realize that the workers true value is dependent on the profit they make for the employer, right? So if there is no profit, their is no value.

 

[bripat9643]

No, there is actually no job that pays any worker their true value - if they did then there would be no profit.

You're a Marxist imbecile. That's all that needs to be said.

 

[Gremlin-USA]

I'd like to know why the unequal distribution of wealth is a bad thing. This seems to be a major premise from those on the left, but it's like you just assume it's a bad thing without every really providing evidence or justifying the premise.

Does the phrase 'Thou Shall Not Steal' ring any bells?

You mean like the Government steals from those that work to give to those that do not work and no I am not referring to people who do not work because of sickness, disability, old age or short term job loss.

.

 

[Richard-H]

Yes, which is precisely why it's obvious why using government to take the wealth of others by force is wrong.

So? The government takes from the thieves and gives to the poor.

The government, IE The politicians and the bureaucrats, are the theives. They give to themselves.

You don't steal money from someone by providing them with a good and service that they want.

BTW I noticed you didnt disagree that the government steals money from people. You just think their robbery is justified. So clearly your moral justification for why "unequal distribution of wealth" is wrong is not something you actually believe. If you actually objected to stealing, you would object to stealing in all it's forms. You just object to what you call stealing while justifying the kind you like.

We need to prevent these Robbers from having power in our government or they will cause the collapse of it.

Uh...I didn't say that the goverment 'steals' from anybody, I said that the government 'takes'.

I agree that there's a lot of corruption in government and that quite a lot of politicians line their own pockets - but that's a separate issue.

As far as the notion that selling goods and services is not ripping off the customer...sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't. If the goods or services are non-essential items then it's perfectly O.K. to charge whatever the customers are willing to pay...as in the case of guitars.

However, in the case of essential services, most of the time business extorts the customers - if the government lets them get away with it. If people need medical or legal help, for example, the charges for these services are astronomically and completely non-proportional to the cost of delivering these services. There's nothing customers can do about it. It's pure extortion.

The only thing that stands between us and $500/ gallon milk is the government.

But, getting back to the point, it's the low level workers that are usually the ones (especially in manufactirung) that are almost always getting ripped off.

Do you really think that the workers in the factories that build all the high tech equiment that are in our hospitals are the ones getting the big bucks? They don't have a pot to piss in. Yet the cost of hospital equipment is astronomical. It really doesn't cost any more to manufacture than your home PC does, but it all costs way more.

 

[Richard-H]

You obviously have no experience in manufacturing and have no idea what factory workers, skilled or unskilled are paid.

I'm an electrical engineer with 20+ years of experience in heavy industry - I design and build things that require quite a bit more skill than guitar building. I know what workers are paid. And yes idiot, I get paid well into the six figure range.

No, there is actually no job that pays any worker their true value - if they did then there would be no profit.

Unions try to get employers to pay the workers something more than slave wages, but still not even close to their true value.

You're obviously completely ignorant of the economics of manufacturing.

Because you say so.

BTW you do realize that the workers true value is dependent on the profit they make for the employer, right? So if there is no profit, their is no value.

No. The workers true value is their productive contribution to society. Are you saying that the value of productive work is only the gain of the slave masters?

Hey, I didn't buy that guitar because I wanted to make some fat cat fatter, I bought it because I wanted a guitar.

 

[Richard-H]

I'd like to know why the unequal distribution of wealth is a bad thing. This seems to be a major premise from those on the left, but it's like you just assume it's a bad thing without every really providing evidence or justifying the premise.

Does the phrase 'Thou Shall Not Steal' ring any bells?

You mean like the Government steals from those that work to give to those that do not work and no I am not referring to people who do not work because of sickness, disability, old age or short term job loss.

.

No body wants the government to give money to people that are perfectly capable of working. In fact the whole notion that the government does give money to people who are capable of working is a conservative myth. It does occur, but it's illegal.

 

[Gremlin-USA]

Apparently your a person that continually talks out of your ass.

You certainly know nothing about guitars or their manufacture. Ifyou did you would have noticed that I'm playing a Fender Stratocaster in my picture. The same model that Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck play.

Yes, fine guitars do take a lot of craftsmanship, but that doesn't mean that the workers are paid worth a damn.

For someone who wants to claim others are "talking out of their asses", you sure do use a lot of words to say, "I don't know shit, I just make assumptions and state them like fact."

Your first incorrect assumption: that I give enough of a fuck to spend time staring at your ugly-ass avatar picture to try to figure out what kind of guitar you're playing . . . or even really notice that there's a guitar in it.

Your second incorrect assumption: that I have to have lots of personal knowledge and experience with guitars in particular to know that they're not made by unskilled, minimum-wage workers.

Your third, and most incorrect assumption: that all workers are "being ripped off" by their employers, and thus guitar makers are automatically being screwed by theirs, because there's no such thing as a job that pays commensurate with one's skill and employability.

The actual facts: You're a homely little fucker, and your posts are ignorant and boring, and both of you are ultimately and incredibly forgettable.

While I don't play the guitar, I do play other musical instruments, and I have friends who not only play guitars, but also repair them for a living. As such, I have quite a good idea what sort of specialized skill and training it takes to make musical instruments, even base-quality ones intended for beginning students. I have absolutely no reason to believe that guitars require any less skill and care to manufacture than do flutes, pianos, and violins, for example.

There is no "ripoff" involved in working for money in the United States. Employees are paid according to how valuable they are to the company, and how easy they are to replace. Just because YOU believe you are worth more does not actually make that true. If you cannot easily go out and find someone to pay you the same amount or more, then the sad fact is that you are, in fact, worth exactly what you're getting. But that is no more "ripping you off" than you are "ripping off" your cellphone company by finding the one with the lowest prices and then paying them only the absolute minimum required for your service, instead of giving them extra because their service is so good, it's worth more.

You obviously have no experience in manufacturing and have no idea what factory workers, skilled or unskilled are paid.

I'm an electrical engineer with 20+ years of experience in heavy industry - I design and build things that require quite a bit more skill than guitar building. I know what workers are paid. And yes idiot, I get paid well into the six figure range.

No, there is actually no job that pays any worker their true value - if they did then there would be no profit.

Unions try to get employers to pay the workers something more than slave wages, but still not even close to their true value.

You're obviously completely ignorant of the economics of manufacturing.

And what happened to the Auto Industry in the late 70's and early 80's, the highly skilled ( cough, cough) severely over paid Union workers, where producing cars so shitty that the Japanese Auto Makers were Importing 3 times higher quality Cars into the US and started the assault of Foreign Imports, It was not till almost 20 years later till the US Auto Manufacturers finally caught up to build a higher quality car then the Imports.
Thanks to that, we forever lost a great portion of US owned Car production, and notice who now has a Huge share of Car sales in the US is by Foreign owned Car Companies and they employ non-union workers... wonder why?

.

 

[Gremlin-USA]

Does the phrase 'Thou Shall Not Steal' ring any bells?

You mean like the Government steals from those that work to give to those that do not work and no I am not referring to people who do not work because of sickness, disability, old age or short term job loss.

.

No body wants the government to give money to people that are perfectly capable of working. In fact the whole notion that the government does give money to people who are capable of working is a conservative myth. It does occur, but it's illegal.

I beg to differ, having re-enter the dating scene after a divorce, I have met 5 out of 15 women that have several kids, live in section 8 housing, do not work and are government assistance in several forms (needless to say after learning this, I never contacted them again) , but it is not a conservative myth, evidently you do not participate in the real world much.

.

 

[Richard-H]

For someone who wants to claim others are "talking out of their asses", you sure do use a lot of words to say, "I don't know shit, I just make assumptions and state them like fact."

Your first incorrect assumption: that I give enough of a fuck to spend time staring at your ugly-ass avatar picture to try to figure out what kind of guitar you're playing . . . or even really notice that there's a guitar in it.

Your second incorrect assumption: that I have to have lots of personal knowledge and experience with guitars in particular to know that they're not made by unskilled, minimum-wage workers.

Your third, and most incorrect assumption: that all workers are "being ripped off" by their employers, and thus guitar makers are automatically being screwed by theirs, because there's no such thing as a job that pays commensurate with one's skill and employability.

The actual facts: You're a homely little fucker, and your posts are ignorant and boring, and both of you are ultimately and incredibly forgettable.

While I don't play the guitar, I do play other musical instruments, and I have friends who not only play guitars, but also repair them for a living. As such, I have quite a good idea what sort of specialized skill and training it takes to make musical instruments, even base-quality ones intended for beginning students. I have absolutely no reason to believe that guitars require any less skill and care to manufacture than do flutes, pianos, and violins, for example.

There is no "ripoff" involved in working for money in the United States. Employees are paid according to how valuable they are to the company, and how easy they are to replace. Just because YOU believe you are worth more does not actually make that true. If you cannot easily go out and find someone to pay you the same amount or more, then the sad fact is that you are, in fact, worth exactly what you're getting. But that is no more "ripping you off" than you are "ripping off" your cellphone company by finding the one with the lowest prices and then paying them only the absolute minimum required for your service, instead of giving them extra because their service is so good, it's worth more.

You obviously have no experience in manufacturing and have no idea what factory workers, skilled or unskilled are paid.

I'm an electrical engineer with 20+ years of experience in heavy industry - I design and build things that require quite a bit more skill than guitar building. I know what workers are paid. And yes idiot, I get paid well into the six figure range.

No, there is actually no job that pays any worker their true value - if they did then there would be no profit.

Unions try to get employers to pay the workers something more than slave wages, but still not even close to their true value.

You're obviously completely ignorant of the economics of manufacturing.

And what happened to the Auto Industry in the late 70's and early 80's, the highly skilled ( cough, cough) severely over paid Union workers, where producing cars so shitty that the Japanese Auto Makers were Importing 3 times higher quality Cars into the US and started the assault of Foreign Imports, It was not till almost 20 years later till the US Auto Manufacturers finally caught up to build a higher quality car then the Imports.
Thanks to that, we forever lost a great portion of US owned Car production, and notice who now has a Huge share of Car sales in the US is by Foreign owned Car Companies and they employ non-union workers... wonder why?

.

Th eprimary reason why the U.S. auto industry fell behind is becuase almost all research and development in U.S. industry is done under military contracts (except for the chemical and pharma industries). Since WWII, U.S. industry doesn't do the R&D thing. Do you really think that he PC boom was a product of private indutry research - if so look up 'ARPANET'.

The Japanese auto industry got ahead becuase they invested in R&D. Once the government stopped military develpment in cars, the U.S. industry stopped modernizing.

 

[Richard-H]

You mean like the Government steals from those that work to give to those that do not work and no I am not referring to people who do not work because of sickness, disability, old age or short term job loss.

.

No body wants the government to give money to people that are perfectly capable of working. In fact the whole notion that the government does give money to people who are capable of working is a conservative myth. It does occur, but it's illegal.

I beg to differ, having re-enter the dating scene after a divorce, I have met 5 out of 15 women that have several kids, live in section 8 housing, do not work and are government assistance in several forms (needless to say after learning this, I never contacted them again) , but it is not a conservative myth, evidently you do not participate in the real world much.

.

Did you offer to baby sit their kids so they could go out and work? If not it sounds like their parental responsibilities make them incapable of working.

Of course if us liberals had our way, we'd have public child care, so that women like these could work. But, oh yeah, you conservatives blocked that.

 

[Richard-H]

Well, good night to all. Just as a passing shot, I'd lik eto say that it's obvious that none of the people (who I've been debating), appear to have any knowledge of manufacturing or the realities of economics or the importance of real production.

You're all people who desparately cling to unfair wealth distribution, because if wealth distribution was fair you'd all be dirt poor!

 

[Gremlin-USA]

No body wants the government to give money to people that are perfectly capable of working. In fact the whole notion that the government does give money to people who are capable of working is a conservative myth. It does occur, but it's illegal.

I beg to differ, having re-enter the dating scene after a divorce, I have met 5 out of 15 women that have several kids, live in section 8 housing, do not work and are government assistance in several forms (needless to say after learning this, I never contacted them again) , but it is not a conservative myth, evidently you do not participate in the real world much.

.

Did you offer to baby sit their kids so they could go out and work? If not it sounds like their parental responsibilities make them incapable of working.

Of course if us liberals had our way, we'd have public child care, so that women like these could work. But, oh yeah, you conservatives blocked that.

Babysit their kids......lol.... I work 10-12 hours a day as it is

Free daycare? lol....

Seriously now you think taxpayers should pay for that in addition to everything else?

If people took more personal responsibility they would not have the need to rely on Government for everything, 40 years ago this kind of non-sense was not prevalent, why all of a sudden does everyone expect someone else to pay for others lack of responsibilities?

 

[Avatar4321]

No. The workers true value is their productive contribution to society. Are you saying that the value of productive work is only the gain of the slave masters?

Hey, I didn't buy that guitar because I wanted to make some fat cat fatter, I bought it because I wanted a guitar.

No. Im saying that a workers true value is what someone is willing to pay them for their work. If paying them was not profitable, there would be no value in their work and they wouldn't be paid to work.

This is precisely why the more profitable a worker is, the more an employer is willing to pay for his work.

 

[Avatar4321]

Well, good night to all. Just as a passing shot, I'd lik eto say that it's obvious that none of the people (who I've been debating), appear to have any knowledge of manufacturing or the realities of economics or the importance of real production.

You're all people who desparately cling to unfair wealth distribution, because if wealth distribution was fair you'd all be dirt poor!

A wise man once said: "It's better to be silent and look the fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

You might want to consider that advice in the future.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Well, good night to all. Just as a passing shot, I'd lik eto say that it's obvious that none of the people (who I've been debating), appear to have any knowledge of manufacturing or the realities of economics or the importance of real production.

You're all people who desparately cling to unfair wealth distribution, because if wealth distribution was fair you'd all be dirt poor!

I'm having trouble understanding you.

What I've got so far that your saying is

"I smart. You dumb. Mantra Mantra Mantra"


Is that what you're saying?