Unfettered Capitalism

[georgephillip]

I could never support Trumpism, but it will be really fucking tough when I'm voting for Biden. I'd much rather vote third party, but...

If I lived in a competitive state, I would have to vote for Biden.
As it is I'm conflicted between adding to Joe's popular vote total by 1 or casting a write-in ballot for Bernie.

 

[georgephillip]

Where is Indymac bank? Where is Countrywide Financial? Where Bear Stearns today? Where is Lehman Brothers?

How many of their CEOs faced criminal charges?

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2017/01/19/mnuchin-i-moved-to-save-indymac-during-crisis.html

 

[kaz]

Democratic socialism is just mob rule. Voting doesn't justify armed robbery

Democratic socialism means the government makes decisions based on the welfare of a majority of its citizens instead of the richest ten percent of its voters.
Democratic Socialism vs. Unfettered Capitalism: There is Absolutely NO Comparison (+3K Views) - munKNEE.com

Democratic socialism - Wikipedia.

"Democratic socialism is defined as having a socialist economy in which the means of production are socially and collectively owned or controlled,[2] alongside a democratic political system of government."

Norway is a tiny, homogenous country with lots of land funded by massive oil exports. Comparing that directly to the United States without considering things like that we have an open border to a third world country and the massive funding for Norway's socialist spending programs with energy exports is completely and utterly moronic.

And despite that massive funding, they were going broke and pulled back on the socialist programs before they went bankrupt, what you want to do to us here, Karl Marx

 

[kaz]

My God government schools are apparently as bad in New Zealand as they are here. Sorry, guy. Try reading my post again. Read slower and try to sound it out if you have to. Or maybe you're right and you're a moron. Companies have to compete with other companies for your business. Government eliminates its competition. And you think people work harder when they aren't accountable. You're not a functioning adult

And in unfettered capitalism you have a similar thing except monopolies are eliminating competition...Why do you think the Sherman Act came into being.

Name sustained monopolies where the competition was not eliminated by government. Go ...

 

[kaz]

Socialism is government control over the economy. It's central economic planning. That is the opposite of capitalism, which is distributed economic planning. Capitalism is just economic freedom. In capitalism, consumers, suppliers, employees, employers make our own best decisions. Only government can centrally plan an economy because only government can use guns to force people to make choices against our best interest.

We understand it fine, comrade. You don't know what you're talking about

Name a socialist country in Western Europe. Just one that meets the above criteria.

Today in Western Europe they have large socialist programs, but not direct central economic planning. Germany, Italy, Spain were socialist, but they failed and while having massive socialist programs are largely free market economies. Though the heavy taxes and redistribution of wealth are large socialist programs and those exist across Western Europe

 

[kaz]

Government isn't just screwing companies with their endless expensive regulations, they are screwing everyone

Who's getting screwed when Trump installs lobbyists to run federal regulatory agencies?

Donald Trump is handing the federal government over to fossil fuel interests

Almost all political appointees have industry experience. To just reduce that to "Trump" and "fossil fuels" is completely inane. Your standard fare.

Government should to the extent possible be staying out of it. But Democrats screw and limit energy companies. It's no better

 

[kaz]

Democratic socialism is just mob rule. Voting doesn't justify armed robbery

Democratic socialism means the government makes decisions based on the welfare of a majority of its citizens instead of the richest ten percent of its voters.

Democratic socialism means every decision in society is subject to majority rule.

Yes, democratic socialism is mob rule. That's what I said.

Majority vote doesn't justify armed robbery

{pitchforks and torched crowd outside georgephillip's house}

Mob: Should we sack georgephillip? We need a majority vote here, hands raised. OK, 43-0, we sack him! Yeah, go!!!!

georgephillip. No wait! I vote no and it's my stuff!

Mob: Noted, 43-1. Let's go!

Justified now, huh georgie?

 

[bripat9643]

Traffic congestion is a "market failure" when the government designs and builds all the roads?

Who sells all the cars, Clown?

ROFL! The people who sell cars are responsible for congestion? I guess people who have homes are responsible for getting robbed.

 

[georgephillip]

If businesses can socialize costs, government is failing to do its job.

Again, your claim is backasswards. It's a policy failure, not a market failure. The government should prevent "socializing costs" - unless, I guess, it's a socialist government, in which case socializing costs is the point

Socialist governments would be more likely to nationalize a company entirely rather than allow shareholders to keep profits by shifting losses onto taxpayers.

I see your point about government failing to prevent the free market from practicing Lemon Socialism, but I still blame the influence of private fortunes on government and not the institution of government.

Lemon socialism - Wikipedia

"Origin[edit]

"Mark J. Green coined the exact phrase in a 1974 article discussing the utility company Con Ed.[8][10]

"The sentiment was earlier expressed in the adage 'socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor', which was in use by the 1960s, though the notion of privatizing profits and socializing losses dates at least to 1834 and Andrew Jackson's closing of the Second Bank of the United States."

 

[bripat9643]

The socialists owe the ignorant GOP faux capitalists a huge Thank You card for so badly misapplying capitalism:

‘A tale of 2 recessions’: As rich Americans get richer, the bottom half struggles

The trend is on track to exacerbate dramatic wealth and income gaps in the U.S., where divides are already wider than any other nation in the G-7.

www.politico.com

The result is a splintered economic picture characterized by high highs — the stock market has hit record levels — and incongruous low lows: Nearly 30 million Americans are receiving unemployment benefits, and the jobless rate stands at 8.4 percent. And that dichotomy, economists fear, could obscure the need for an additional economic stimulus that most say is sorely needed.

The trend is on track to exacerbate dramatic wealth and income gaps in the U.S., where divides are already wider than any other nation in the G-7, a group of major developed countries. Spiraling inequality can also contribute to political and financial instability, fuel social unrest and extend any economic recession.

Your link:

"The growing divide could also have damaging implications for President Donald Trump's reelection bid.

"Economic downturns historically have been harmful if not fatal for incumbent presidents, and Trump's base of working-class, blue-collar voters in the Midwest are among the demographics hurting the most.

"The White House has worked to highlight a rapid economic recovery as a primary reason to reelect the president, but his support on the issue is slipping: Nearly 3 in 5 people say the economy is on the wrong track, a recent Reuters/Ipsos poll found."

Whether it's in four months or four years, Trump is leaving behind an absolute mess. And yet, he could very well still win. The Democrats are taking advantage of the ugliness, ignorance and arrogance of the Trump administration by running a historically weak candidate.

Democrats created the mess, not Trump.

 

[Mac1958]

The socialists owe the ignorant GOP faux capitalists a huge Thank You card for so badly misapplying capitalism:

‘A tale of 2 recessions’: As rich Americans get richer, the bottom half struggles

The trend is on track to exacerbate dramatic wealth and income gaps in the U.S., where divides are already wider than any other nation in the G-7.

www.politico.com

The result is a splintered economic picture characterized by high highs — the stock market has hit record levels — and incongruous low lows: Nearly 30 million Americans are receiving unemployment benefits, and the jobless rate stands at 8.4 percent. And that dichotomy, economists fear, could obscure the need for an additional economic stimulus that most say is sorely needed.

The trend is on track to exacerbate dramatic wealth and income gaps in the U.S., where divides are already wider than any other nation in the G-7, a group of major developed countries. Spiraling inequality can also contribute to political and financial instability, fuel social unrest and extend any economic recession.

Your link:

"The growing divide could also have damaging implications for President Donald Trump's reelection bid.

"Economic downturns historically have been harmful if not fatal for incumbent presidents, and Trump's base of working-class, blue-collar voters in the Midwest are among the demographics hurting the most.

"The White House has worked to highlight a rapid economic recovery as a primary reason to reelect the president, but his support on the issue is slipping: Nearly 3 in 5 people say the economy is on the wrong track, a recent Reuters/Ipsos poll found."

Whether it's in four months or four years, Trump is leaving behind an absolute mess. And yet, he could very well still win. The Democrats are taking advantage of the ugliness, ignorance and arrogance of the Trump administration by running a historically weak candidate.

Democrats created the mess, not Trump.

Of course.

 

[bripat9643]

That's a total load of horseshit. Your cite is obviously just another leftwing propaganda organ.

You need to pull your head out of Trump's ass:

Big pharma is taking big money from U.S. taxpayers to find a coronavirus vaccine — and charge whatever they want for it

"Since the start of the race for a COVID-19 vaccine, the U.S. government has funneled more than $10 billion in taxpayer dollars to pharmaceutical companies through contracts for the expedited innovation of a vaccine.

"So far, the government’s investment has been made with no strings attached, not even a guarantee that any vaccines and treatments will be affordable to the people who need them."

That's what happens when you want private companies to solve your emergency. Did you imagine they would do it for free?

 

[bripat9643]

The socialists owe the ignorant GOP faux capitalists a huge Thank You card for so badly misapplying capitalism:

‘A tale of 2 recessions’: As rich Americans get richer, the bottom half struggles

The trend is on track to exacerbate dramatic wealth and income gaps in the U.S., where divides are already wider than any other nation in the G-7.

www.politico.com

The result is a splintered economic picture characterized by high highs — the stock market has hit record levels — and incongruous low lows: Nearly 30 million Americans are receiving unemployment benefits, and the jobless rate stands at 8.4 percent. And that dichotomy, economists fear, could obscure the need for an additional economic stimulus that most say is sorely needed.

The trend is on track to exacerbate dramatic wealth and income gaps in the U.S., where divides are already wider than any other nation in the G-7, a group of major developed countries. Spiraling inequality can also contribute to political and financial instability, fuel social unrest and extend any economic recession.

Your link:

"The growing divide could also have damaging implications for President Donald Trump's reelection bid.

"Economic downturns historically have been harmful if not fatal for incumbent presidents, and Trump's base of working-class, blue-collar voters in the Midwest are among the demographics hurting the most.

"The White House has worked to highlight a rapid economic recovery as a primary reason to reelect the president, but his support on the issue is slipping: Nearly 3 in 5 people say the economy is on the wrong track, a recent Reuters/Ipsos poll found."

Whether it's in four months or four years, Trump is leaving behind an absolute mess. And yet, he could very well still win. The Democrats are taking advantage of the ugliness, ignorance and arrogance of the Trump administration by running a historically weak candidate.

Democrats created the mess, not Trump.

Of course.

Who shut down the economy? Who burned down Seattle and Portland?

 

[Mac1958]

The socialists owe the ignorant GOP faux capitalists a huge Thank You card for so badly misapplying capitalism:

‘A tale of 2 recessions’: As rich Americans get richer, the bottom half struggles

The trend is on track to exacerbate dramatic wealth and income gaps in the U.S., where divides are already wider than any other nation in the G-7.

www.politico.com

The result is a splintered economic picture characterized by high highs — the stock market has hit record levels — and incongruous low lows: Nearly 30 million Americans are receiving unemployment benefits, and the jobless rate stands at 8.4 percent. And that dichotomy, economists fear, could obscure the need for an additional economic stimulus that most say is sorely needed.

The trend is on track to exacerbate dramatic wealth and income gaps in the U.S., where divides are already wider than any other nation in the G-7, a group of major developed countries. Spiraling inequality can also contribute to political and financial instability, fuel social unrest and extend any economic recession.

Your link:

"The growing divide could also have damaging implications for President Donald Trump's reelection bid.

"Economic downturns historically have been harmful if not fatal for incumbent presidents, and Trump's base of working-class, blue-collar voters in the Midwest are among the demographics hurting the most.

"The White House has worked to highlight a rapid economic recovery as a primary reason to reelect the president, but his support on the issue is slipping: Nearly 3 in 5 people say the economy is on the wrong track, a recent Reuters/Ipsos poll found."

Whether it's in four months or four years, Trump is leaving behind an absolute mess. And yet, he could very well still win. The Democrats are taking advantage of the ugliness, ignorance and arrogance of the Trump administration by running a historically weak candidate.

Democrats created the mess, not Trump.

Of course.

Who shut down the economy? Who burned down Seattle and Portland?

Okay, it's all their fault. Trump is the victim. Got it.

 

[bripat9643]

The socialists owe the ignorant GOP faux capitalists a huge Thank You card for so badly misapplying capitalism:

‘A tale of 2 recessions’: As rich Americans get richer, the bottom half struggles

The trend is on track to exacerbate dramatic wealth and income gaps in the U.S., where divides are already wider than any other nation in the G-7.

www.politico.com

The result is a splintered economic picture characterized by high highs — the stock market has hit record levels — and incongruous low lows: Nearly 30 million Americans are receiving unemployment benefits, and the jobless rate stands at 8.4 percent. And that dichotomy, economists fear, could obscure the need for an additional economic stimulus that most say is sorely needed.

The trend is on track to exacerbate dramatic wealth and income gaps in the U.S., where divides are already wider than any other nation in the G-7, a group of major developed countries. Spiraling inequality can also contribute to political and financial instability, fuel social unrest and extend any economic recession.

Your link:

"The growing divide could also have damaging implications for President Donald Trump's reelection bid.

"Economic downturns historically have been harmful if not fatal for incumbent presidents, and Trump's base of working-class, blue-collar voters in the Midwest are among the demographics hurting the most.

"The White House has worked to highlight a rapid economic recovery as a primary reason to reelect the president, but his support on the issue is slipping: Nearly 3 in 5 people say the economy is on the wrong track, a recent Reuters/Ipsos poll found."

Whether it's in four months or four years, Trump is leaving behind an absolute mess. And yet, he could very well still win. The Democrats are taking advantage of the ugliness, ignorance and arrogance of the Trump administration by running a historically weak candidate.

Democrats created the mess, not Trump.

Of course.

Who shut down the economy? Who burned down Seattle and Portland?

Okay, it's all their fault. Trump is the victim. Got it.

Yes he is, dumbass. To be more precise, his voters are the victims.

 

[Mac1958]

The socialists owe the ignorant GOP faux capitalists a huge Thank You card for so badly misapplying capitalism:

‘A tale of 2 recessions’: As rich Americans get richer, the bottom half struggles

The trend is on track to exacerbate dramatic wealth and income gaps in the U.S., where divides are already wider than any other nation in the G-7.

www.politico.com

The result is a splintered economic picture characterized by high highs — the stock market has hit record levels — and incongruous low lows: Nearly 30 million Americans are receiving unemployment benefits, and the jobless rate stands at 8.4 percent. And that dichotomy, economists fear, could obscure the need for an additional economic stimulus that most say is sorely needed.

The trend is on track to exacerbate dramatic wealth and income gaps in the U.S., where divides are already wider than any other nation in the G-7, a group of major developed countries. Spiraling inequality can also contribute to political and financial instability, fuel social unrest and extend any economic recession.

Your link:

"The growing divide could also have damaging implications for President Donald Trump's reelection bid.

"Economic downturns historically have been harmful if not fatal for incumbent presidents, and Trump's base of working-class, blue-collar voters in the Midwest are among the demographics hurting the most.

"The White House has worked to highlight a rapid economic recovery as a primary reason to reelect the president, but his support on the issue is slipping: Nearly 3 in 5 people say the economy is on the wrong track, a recent Reuters/Ipsos poll found."

Whether it's in four months or four years, Trump is leaving behind an absolute mess. And yet, he could very well still win. The Democrats are taking advantage of the ugliness, ignorance and arrogance of the Trump administration by running a historically weak candidate.

Democrats created the mess, not Trump.

Of course.

Who shut down the economy? Who burned down Seattle and Portland?

Okay, it's all their fault. Trump is the victim. Got it.

Yes he is, dumbass. To be more precise, his voters are the victims.

Absolutely.

 

[georgephillip]

A shared resource is the legitimate domain of government - the commons. The market is irrelevant. If "some members of a community fail to contribute their fair share to the costs of a shared resource" it's the government policy regarding the commons that is failing, not the market.

Which institution do you blame for this failure?

Ten Real-Life Examples of the Tragedy of the Commons - dummies

"The Grand Banks are fishing grounds off the coast of Newfoundland.

"For centuries, explorers and fishermen described this region as home to an endless supply of cod fish. In the 1960s and 1970s, advances in fishing technology allowed huge catches of cod.

"Following a few dramatically large seasons, the fish populations dropped, forcing Canadian fishermen to sail farther to maintain large catch sizes each season.

"By the 1990s, cod populations were so low that the Grand Banks fishing industry collapsed. It was too late for regulation and management; the cod stocks had been irreparably damaged.

"Since then, the cod populations have remained low, and some scientists doubt the Grand Banks ecosystem will ever recover."

 

[georgephillip]

"A shared resource" means a government resource. No charging what it costs to produce it is a typical government behavior. There is no mass transit system on the planet that charges enough to cover what it costs to run and maintain.

You're avoiding the concept of "externality" and what happens when a shared resource transcends any individual nation state.

Ten Real-Life Examples of the Tragedy of the Commons - dummies

"The ocean is an excellent example of a shared resource that can easily be abused and degraded because it’s shared by many different nations.

"No single authority has the power to pass laws that protect the entire ocean.

"Instead, each nation manages and protects the ocean resources along its coastlines, leaving the shared common space beyond any particular jurisdiction vulnerable to pollution.

"Throughout the world’s oceans, garbage has begun to accumulate in the center of circular currents, or gyres.

"These giant patches of ocean garbage occur because many different countries allow solid waste to enter the oceans from land or ships.

"Destruction of ocean ecosystems because of garbage, especially plastic pollutants, is likely to affect every person on the planet as these pollutants cycle through the food chain."

Do you blame capitalism or government for garbage gyres?

The Great Pacific Garbage Patch - H2O Distributors

 

[georgephillip]

There would be many fewer IPOs if there wasn't a secondary market to trade them in.

"Is the stock market one giant Ponzi Scheme?

"A Ponzi Scheme, for those who haven’t heard the term, according to Investopedia, is 'a fraudulent investing scam promising high rates of return with little risk to investors. The Ponzi scheme generates returns for early investors by acquiring new investors. This is similar to a pyramid scheme in that both are based on using new investors’ funds to pay the earlier backers.'

"'Both Ponzi schemes and pyramid schemes eventually bottom out when the flood of new investors dries up and there isn’t enough money to go around. At that point, the schemes unravel.'"

The Stock Market Is a Ponzi Scheme

 

[georgephillip]

I hear it's catching on.

"'If equality under the law is the hallmark of democracy, privilege sanctioned by law is the hallmark of aristocracy.'

"Just as feudal lords extracted wealth from serfs on their lands, today’s aristocracy does the same with corporations.

"Privilege – the right of the aristocracy – is 'a right to income detached from productivity.'"

The Divine Right of Capital by Marjorie Kelly: A Summary