Universal Basic Income: Biden's Best Bet?

[danielpalos]

No, just your fallacy of composition. Labor costs are specific. Goading capitalists to automate for their bottom line can ease inflationary pressure on those goods produced more cost effectively.

So now automation is your plan to raise wages and prevent inflation? Look up the word "naive" or look in a mirror. Same difference.

I looked up the word fallacy instead; it is all you have.

 

[Orangecat]

I looked up the word fallacy instead; it is all you have.

I looked up "dipshit" and it just said "see danielpalos".

 

[danielpalos]

Labor costs are specific. Goading capitalists to automate for their bottom line can ease inflationary pressure on those goods produced more cost effectively.

 

[danielpalos]

They want to give free college, but why go to college if you get a basic income, sounds like a waste of time to get educated for nothing.....

I don't think many Americans would be content to live on their UBI stipend. Such a supplement might prevent a few medical bankruptcies, but I doubt if it produces a new US leisure class.

As far as education's concerned, understanding the world you live in has a value that far exceeds how much money you can exchange for your daily toil.

I believe we should solve simple poverty by solving for the deleterious effects of Capitalism's natural rate of unemployment with unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed in an at-will employment State. How much more market friendly can it get, with automatic stabilization of our economy?

Will you for once be honest and accurate with your language and state that you think we can solve poverty with welfare for people who don't want to provide for themselves? That's what you really mean when say dumb things like "simply being unemployed in an at-will employment State". You know that covers those who can work and who have available jobs but refuse to work. They are poor through their own choices and can take steps to become self-sufficient, but refuse to do so. Why should society perpetuate a negative set of actions by subsidizing them?

Capitalism has a natural rate of unemployment regardless. And, providing for the general welfare means solving for simple poverty.

 

[danielpalos]

Almost everyone's aware of Alaska's Permanent Fund:

"...The program began in 1976 after the discovery of oil on Alaska’s North Slope.

"The then-governor, a renegade Republican named Jay Hammond, concluded that this windfall was too good to just give to the oil companies.

"So he devised the program to share the revenue with Alaska residents...."

"OK, here’s the idea for President-elect Biden:

"Bring 20 of the Trumpiest-looking Alaskans to a press conference.

"Unveil a plan whereby every man, woman, and child gets a $1,000 check every month from the government.

"Finance it with taxes on large wealth, fossil fuels, financial transactions, and intellectual property resulting from taxpayer-funded public research.

"Invite the Alaskans to describe the joy of getting their checks: no middleman, no means tests, no government forms to fill out—just free money as everyone’s share of the American commons.

"Dare Mitch McConnell to oppose it."

A Big, Simple, Winning Issue for Biden

The "American commons" are the cultural and natural resources accessible to all members of society. In a time when the privileged few expand their vast fortunes despite a global pandemic and recession, it seems fitting to socialize the profits and privatize the losses.

Does anyone believe "Delaware Joe" will turn on his corporate benefactors?

What if someone doesnt want to work, but still wants the basic income? Why should other people work then?

They want to give free college, but why go to college if you get a basic income, sounds like a waste of time to get educated for nothing.....

Greed is good for some; we have a Commerce Clause; some people may not want be Poor under our form of Capitalism.

A lot of people don’t want to be fat or ugly. Yet here you are. Do we run a nation on your not wanting to be what you are?

I could be more greedy and work on Wallstreet to be able to afford cosmetic surgery.

 

[danielpalos]

Government will have much more power once everyone is working for the state.

How is that going to happen, more global wars with tax cut economics?

 

[danielpalos]

Think of the opportunity cost of taking an additional 4 trillion out of the economy.

Where are we taking the $4 trillion from?

Would you sacrifice 4 trillion dollars from Wall Street speculators, FIRE sector shareholders, and the Pentagon in order to gain an equal amount of consumption and investment?

Monopoly Capital - Wikipedia

"Fourth, military spending does not compete with capitalist interests in the same way as civilian spending and through imperialism serves to enhance those interests.

"Therefore, military spending is able to expand to a degree civilian spending is not, providing an important outlet for surplus absorption."

The problem is we have no general warfare clause in our federal Constitution and we should be promoting the general welfare not the general warfare every time it comes up.

And, I agree to disagree that military spending is better than infrastructure spending as a Government means of production.

But we do have a Constitutional mandate for defense. You want to deny that one while taking to ridiculous extremes the welfare clause.

lol. Our Constitutional mandate for the general Welfare is first not second.

Irrelevant. The constitutional mandate for defense is as absolute as the welfare clause.

Yes, and our welfare clause is general not common.

 

[danielpalos]

Let's see if we can translate: You want wages to just continually rise, which is inflation because you're not doing anything to increase the value of the jobs

Productivity has also risen. Inflation happens regardless. The minimum wage should have kept up with inflation from Inception.

Does the burger flipper of today flip more burgers than the burger flipper of yesterday, or does he do about the same number? Does the floor sweeper sweep more floors today or about the same amount of square footage in a normal shift? Does the Wal-Mart greeter greet more people today than before? The productivity you're talking about is from automation. For example, you don't have thousands of men on an auto assembly line welding pieces together and turning bolts, you have a comparative handful monitoring machines that do a better job welding and putting on bolts. A worker has to learn new skills to operate the automated machines, which in turn means he doesn't get paid MW any more. So, since you brought it up, what MW jobs have seen increased productivity that would justify higher wages? Be specific.

Valuation just like the CEO is what matters.

 

[danielpalos]

Let's see if we can translate: You want wages to just continually rise, which is inflation because you're not doing anything to increase the value of the jobs

Productivity has also risen. Inflation happens regardless. The minimum wage should have kept up with inflation from Inception.

Does the burger flipper of today flip more burgers than the burger flipper of yesterday, or does he do about the same number? Does the floor sweeper sweep more floors today or about the same amount of square footage in a normal shift? Does the Wal-Mart greeter greet more people today than before? The productivity you're talking about is from automation. For example, you don't have thousands of men on an auto assembly line welding pieces together and turning bolts, you have a comparative handful monitoring machines that do a better job welding and putting on bolts. A worker has to learn new skills to operate the automated machines, which in turn means he doesn't get paid MW any more. So, since you brought it up, what MW jobs have seen increased productivity that would justify higher wages? Be specific.

Inflation alone justifies raising the minimum wage.

Which causes inflation, so raise wages again, which causes more inflation, raise wages, more inflation, raise wages, more inflation...,

It is not only wages that cause inflation. And, wages merely need to outpace inflation on an institutional basis.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Without raising the minimum wage, we have inflation.

Try again.

Raising the minimum wage mitigates the concentration of wealth.

No, it does not. Industries in the US are having a hard enough time competing with foreign made products as it is. When you raise MW, you create a domino effect, meaning everybody's pay has to increase. That means US manufacturers only have two choices: close up their business, or move it overseas.

For industries that can't outsource or move, they increase the cost of their product or service. Guess who pays that? The rich guy never loses.

Yes, there will be slight inflation without MW increases, but huge inflation with a $15.00 per hour MW. Everything will cost much, much more because everybody is getting paid much more money.

 

[hadit]

You also think that giving people a guaranteed basic income will solve poverty. How will it do that when you have to first take the money out of the economy, making it harder for people to keep going and turning larger numbers of them from producers to takers? You refuse to consider the opportunity cost of taking over $3 trillion out of the economy.

I am for solving simple poverty by solving for the deleterious capital effects of capitalism's natural rate of unemployment in our at-will employment States.

Labor as the least wealthy tend to spend more of their income (circulate that income in our economy) sooner rather than later and offer the best multiplier bang for our buck as a result.

And you want to give them more so you can take more from them, leaving them right where they are now.

Prices won't double under any scenario if the minimum wage doubles.

That doesn't relate to what I said.

 

[hadit]

They want to give free college, but why go to college if you get a basic income, sounds like a waste of time to get educated for nothing.....

I don't think many Americans would be content to live on their UBI stipend. Such a supplement might prevent a few medical bankruptcies, but I doubt if it produces a new US leisure class.

As far as education's concerned, understanding the world you live in has a value that far exceeds how much money you can exchange for your daily toil.

I believe we should solve simple poverty by solving for the deleterious effects of Capitalism's natural rate of unemployment with unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed in an at-will employment State. How much more market friendly can it get, with automatic stabilization of our economy?

Will you for once be honest and accurate with your language and state that you think we can solve poverty with welfare for people who don't want to provide for themselves? That's what you really mean when say dumb things like "simply being unemployed in an at-will employment State". You know that covers those who can work and who have available jobs but refuse to work. They are poor through their own choices and can take steps to become self-sufficient, but refuse to do so. Why should society perpetuate a negative set of actions by subsidizing them?

Capitalism has a natural rate of unemployment regardless. And, providing for the general welfare means solving for simple poverty.

Are you going to stop saying that welfare is UC?

 

[hadit]

Think of the opportunity cost of taking an additional 4 trillion out of the economy.

Where are we taking the $4 trillion from?

Would you sacrifice 4 trillion dollars from Wall Street speculators, FIRE sector shareholders, and the Pentagon in order to gain an equal amount of consumption and investment?

Monopoly Capital - Wikipedia

"Fourth, military spending does not compete with capitalist interests in the same way as civilian spending and through imperialism serves to enhance those interests.

"Therefore, military spending is able to expand to a degree civilian spending is not, providing an important outlet for surplus absorption."

The problem is we have no general warfare clause in our federal Constitution and we should be promoting the general welfare not the general warfare every time it comes up.

And, I agree to disagree that military spending is better than infrastructure spending as a Government means of production.

But we do have a Constitutional mandate for defense. You want to deny that one while taking to ridiculous extremes the welfare clause.

lol. Our Constitutional mandate for the general Welfare is first not second.

Irrelevant. The constitutional mandate for defense is as absolute as the welfare clause.

Yes, and our welfare clause is general not common.

Again, irrelevant. You want to take the one to extremes while ignoring the other.

 

[hadit]

Let's see if we can translate: You want wages to just continually rise, which is inflation because you're not doing anything to increase the value of the jobs

Productivity has also risen. Inflation happens regardless. The minimum wage should have kept up with inflation from Inception.

Does the burger flipper of today flip more burgers than the burger flipper of yesterday, or does he do about the same number? Does the floor sweeper sweep more floors today or about the same amount of square footage in a normal shift? Does the Wal-Mart greeter greet more people today than before? The productivity you're talking about is from automation. For example, you don't have thousands of men on an auto assembly line welding pieces together and turning bolts, you have a comparative handful monitoring machines that do a better job welding and putting on bolts. A worker has to learn new skills to operate the automated machines, which in turn means he doesn't get paid MW any more. So, since you brought it up, what MW jobs have seen increased productivity that would justify higher wages? Be specific.

Valuation just like the CEO is what matters.

What jobs? Be specific.

 

[hadit]

Without raising the minimum wage, we have inflation.

Try again.

Raising the minimum wage mitigates the concentration of wealth.

No, it does not. Industries in the US are having a hard enough time competing with foreign made products as it is. When you raise MW, you create a domino effect, meaning everybody's pay has to increase. That means US manufacturers only have two choices: close up their business, or move it overseas.

For industries that can't outsource or move, they increase the cost of their product or service. Guess who pays that? The rich guy never loses.

Yes, there will be slight inflation without MW increases, but huge inflation with a $15.00 per hour MW. Everything will cost much, much more because everybody is getting paid much more money.

And a lot more people will be out of work. And guess who that hits the hardest? Not the guy making 6 figures.

 

[g5000]

Without raising the minimum wage, we have inflation.

Try again.

Raising the minimum wage mitigates the concentration of wealth.

No, it does not. Industries in the US are having a hard enough time competing with foreign made products as it is. When you raise MW, you create a domino effect, meaning everybody's pay has to increase. That means US manufacturers only have two choices: close up their business, or move it overseas.

For industries that can't outsource or move, they increase the cost of their product or service. Guess who pays that? The rich guy never loses.

Yes, there will be slight inflation without MW increases, but huge inflation with a $15.00 per hour MW. Everything will cost much, much more because everybody is getting paid much more money.

And a lot more people will be out of work. And guess who that hits the hardest? Not the guy making 6 figures.

The same claims are made every time the minimum wage is raised, and it is horseshit every time.

 

[hadit]

Without raising the minimum wage, we have inflation.

Try again.

Raising the minimum wage mitigates the concentration of wealth.

No, it does not. Industries in the US are having a hard enough time competing with foreign made products as it is. When you raise MW, you create a domino effect, meaning everybody's pay has to increase. That means US manufacturers only have two choices: close up their business, or move it overseas.

For industries that can't outsource or move, they increase the cost of their product or service. Guess who pays that? The rich guy never loses.

Yes, there will be slight inflation without MW increases, but huge inflation with a $15.00 per hour MW. Everything will cost much, much more because everybody is getting paid much more money.

And a lot more people will be out of work. And guess who that hits the hardest? Not the guy making 6 figures.

The same claims are made every time the minimum wage is raised, and it is horseshit every time.

Of course, because the increases are small enough and far apart enough for the market to absorb and new jobs to come online. Double it overnight, however, and you have a different story. Almost half the workforce earns less than $15/hr, and all of them will get a raise. Now consider someone who was making double the MW at $15/hr. Do you think he's going to be happy to be making MW after years of effort and training to earn more? Over half the workforce earns $20/hr or less. All of them are going to expect and demand a raise too. You can't avoid the ripple effect, no matter how hard you pretend. Raise it by 50 cents an hour every year over the next 15 years and you won't see big changes in the market.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Almost everyone's aware of Alaska's Permanent Fund:

"...The program began in 1976 after the discovery of oil on Alaska’s North Slope.

"The then-governor, a renegade Republican named Jay Hammond, concluded that this windfall was too good to just give to the oil companies.

"So he devised the program to share the revenue with Alaska residents...."

"OK, here’s the idea for President-elect Biden:

"Bring 20 of the Trumpiest-looking Alaskans to a press conference.

"Unveil a plan whereby every man, woman, and child gets a $1,000 check every month from the government.

"Finance it with taxes on large wealth, fossil fuels, financial transactions, and intellectual property resulting from taxpayer-funded public research.

"Invite the Alaskans to describe the joy of getting their checks: no middleman, no means tests, no government forms to fill out—just free money as everyone’s share of the American commons.

"Dare Mitch McConnell to oppose it."

A Big, Simple, Winning Issue for Biden

The "American commons" are the cultural and natural resources accessible to all members of society. In a time when the privileged few expand their vast fortunes despite a global pandemic and recession, it seems fitting to socialize the profits and privatize the losses.

Does anyone believe "Delaware Joe" will turn on his corporate benefactors?

What if someone doesnt want to work, but still wants the basic income? Why should other people work then?

They want to give free college, but why go to college if you get a basic income, sounds like a waste of time to get educated for nothing.....

Greed is good for some; we have a Commerce Clause; some people may not want be Poor under our form of Capitalism.

A lot of people don’t want to be fat or ugly. Yet here you are. Do we run a nation on your not wanting to be what you are?

I could be more greedy and work on Wallstreet to be able to afford cosmetic surgery.

There’s nothing more greedy than wanting something from someone else’s work. And nothing more vile than wanting the government to steal it for you.

 

[dblack]

Without raising the minimum wage, we have inflation.

Try again.

Raising the minimum wage mitigates the concentration of wealth.

No, it does not. Industries in the US are having a hard enough time competing with foreign made products as it is. When you raise MW, you create a domino effect, meaning everybody's pay has to increase. That means US manufacturers only have two choices: close up their business, or move it overseas.

For industries that can't outsource or move, they increase the cost of their product or service. Guess who pays that? The rich guy never loses.

Yes, there will be slight inflation without MW increases, but huge inflation with a $15.00 per hour MW. Everything will cost much, much more because everybody is getting paid much more money.

And a lot more people will be out of work. And guess who that hits the hardest? Not the guy making 6 figures.

The same claims are made every time the minimum wage is raised, and it is horseshit every time.

Because said raises have always been minimal. Crank it up significantly, and the side effects will be worse.

 

[Papageorgio]

Almost everyone's aware of Alaska's Permanent Fund:

"...The program began in 1976 after the discovery of oil on Alaska’s North Slope.

"The then-governor, a renegade Republican named Jay Hammond, concluded that this windfall was too good to just give to the oil companies.

"So he devised the program to share the revenue with Alaska residents...."

"OK, here’s the idea for President-elect Biden:

"Bring 20 of the Trumpiest-looking Alaskans to a press conference.

"Unveil a plan whereby every man, woman, and child gets a $1,000 check every month from the government.

"Finance it with taxes on large wealth, fossil fuels, financial transactions, and intellectual property resulting from taxpayer-funded public research.

"Invite the Alaskans to describe the joy of getting their checks: no middleman, no means tests, no government forms to fill out—just free money as everyone’s share of the American commons.

"Dare Mitch McConnell to oppose it."

A Big, Simple, Winning Issue for Biden

The "American commons" are the cultural and natural resources accessible to all members of society. In a time when the privileged few expand their vast fortunes despite a global pandemic and recession, it seems fitting to socialize the profits and privatize the losses.

Does anyone believe "Delaware Joe" will turn on his corporate benefactors?

Free money? That is total BS, no such thing, someone is going to pay for it. It didn't work in Finland and I don't see it happening in the US.