Universal Basic Income: Biden's Best Bet?

[Ray From Cleveland]

There’s nothing more greedy than wanting something from someone else’s work. And nothing more vile than wanting the government to steal it for you.

It was Ken Blackwell who said, liberals believe that if you create money, you are not entitled to it, but if you want money, you are.

 

[Orangecat]

The same claims are made every time the minimum wage is raised, and it is horseshit every time.

Economics 101: When prices go up, demand goes down.
Labor is not immune to this.
Raise the price of employing a person, less people will be employed.

 

[Orangecat]

There’s nothing more greedy than wanting something from someone else’s work. And nothing more vile than wanting the government to steal it for you.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I'd bet the cost of living in Alaska went up by $1000 per month right after this program started.

That hasn't been the case according to this source:
I think inflation results when too many dollars chase too few goods; UBI dollars would be spent freely into local economies at a time when they are desperately needed.

Evidence and More Evidence of the Effect on Inflation of Free Money

"If inflation is a direct result of giving free money to everyone, we should see the CPI of Alaska begin to rise faster than the CPI of the rest of the country starting in 1982.

"So what did happen?

"Ever since 1982 Alaska has had LOWER inflation than the entire U.S."

More oil

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It’s almost as if you put no effort at all into this program other than your greed for money you didn’t earn.

It's almost as if you are gullible enough to believe billionaires earn their fortunes in a "free" market governed by an invisible hand's objective appraisal of their marginal utility instead the politically constructed laws and institutions that structure economic activity in their society.

Billionaires extract their fortunes by appropriating a greater share of the American commons than they are ethically entitled to.

A Big, Simple, Winning Issue for Biden

"OK, here’s the idea for President-elect Biden:

"Bring 20 of the Trumpiest-looking Alaskans to a press conference. Unveil a plan whereby every man, woman, and child gets a $1,000 check every month from the government.

"Finance it with taxes on large wealth, fossil fuels, financial transactions, and intellectual property resulting from taxpayer-funded public research.

"Invite the Alaskans to describe the joy of getting their checks: no middleman, no means tests, no government forms to fill out—just free money as everyone’s share of the American commons."

Why don't you just move to a country that already does things that way? Try Cuba for instance. If that's too close, North Korea perhaps.

How do millionaires and billionaires get their money? From you. Not just you.......all of us. Every week, perhaps several times a week, you distribute your money to the top.

So the solution is not destroying the greatest country in the world, the solution is for you to stop giving them your money. You don't need a cell phone. You don't need cable or satellite that provides you with 400 channels plus pay-per-view. You don't need netflix. You don't need this internet; you can use the one at the library. You don't need gasoline or a car. There is plenty of public transportation around. You don't need to eat out at fast food restaurants. Go to the country, kill your own food and eat that. You don't need soda. You don't need alcohol. Take your own garbage to the dump yourself instead of paying those rich evil disposal companies to do it for you.

 

[georgephillip]

Sounds like you want hyper inflation and to crash the economy. You assholes hate the middle class, it’s always been the Agenda of you commies to destroy the middle class.

Hyper inflation in the US is about as likely as a second Trump term.

As far as threats to median workers are concerned, all of you brain-dead cons should stop worshipping the parasites whose mission in life since the Gipper came to town has been the destruction of the middle class:

https://cepr.net/documents/working-paper-upward-distribution-income-rents.pdf (P. 12)

"The compensation of top corporate executives has exploded relative to the pay of the median worker in the last three decades.

"According to analysis by the Economic Policy Institute, the ratio of the pay of CEOs of the 350 largest companies to the pay of the median worker has risen from roughly 30 times that of the median worker in 1978 to close to 300 times the pay of a median worker in 2013.2."

 

[georgephillip]

Hard to believe there are people stupid enough to feel a free $1000/month would solve their financial problems or anyone's financial problems. They can't seem to see anything beyond their fricken nose.

Think it might have any affect on current levels of consumer debt?
Infographic: Pre-Pandemic Household Debt at Record High

The Freedom Dividend - Yang2020 - Andrew Yang for President

"Andrew would implement the Freedom Dividend, a universal basic income of $1,000/month, $12,000 a year, for every American adult over the age of 18.

"This is independent of one’s work status or any other factor.

"This would enable all Americans to pay their bills, educate themselves, start businesses, be more creative, stay healthy, relocate for work, spend time with their children, take care of loved ones, and have a real stake in the future."

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Sounds like you want hyper inflation and to crash the economy. You assholes hate the middle class, it’s always been the Agenda of you commies to destroy the middle class.

Hyper inflation in the US is about as likely as a second Trump term.

As far as threats to median workers are concerned, all of you brain-dead cons should stop worshipping the parasites whose mission in life since the Gipper came to town has been the destruction of the middle class:

https://cepr.net/documents/working-paper-upward-distribution-income-rents.pdf (P. 12)

"The compensation of top corporate executives has exploded relative to the pay of the median worker in the last three decades.

"According to analysis by the Economic Policy Institute, the ratio of the pay of CEOs of the 350 largest companies to the pay of the median worker has risen from roughly 30 times that of the median worker in 1978 to close to 300 times the pay of a median worker in 2013.2."

The solution to your concern is to become a CEO yourself if what they make bothers you so much. Why do you people on the left focus on CEO's, but never say a word about entertainment?

How much more does a star pitcher in MLB make than the hotdog vendor in the stands? How about the parking lot attendant?

How much does an actor make in a popular sitcom compared to the stage hands, the makeup people, the lighting crew or camera person?

How much does a lead vocalist of a popular rock band make than the roadies, their sound people, the lighting crew?

 

[georgephillip]

his topic seems to come up every so often, and one day it may happen, especially with a Biden/Harris admin. What they don't seem to realize is we'll get hyper-inflation and that $1000 would be better used as toilet paper.

Why haven't we seen any results from Alaska that would support your errant hyper-inflation hypothesis?

Wouldn’t Unconditional Basic Income Just Cause Massive Inflation?

"In 1982, Alaska began providing a partial basic income annually to all its residents.

"Until the first dividend, Alaska had a higher rate of inflation than the rest of the United States.

"But ever since the dividend was introduced, Alaska has had a lower rate of inflation than the rest of the United States."

 

[Thinker101]

Hard to believe there are people stupid enough to feel a free $1000/month would solve their financial problems or anyone's financial problems. They can't seem to see anything beyond their fricken nose.

Think it might have any affect on current levels of consumer debt?
Infographic: Pre-Pandemic Household Debt at Record High

The Freedom Dividend - Yang2020 - Andrew Yang for President

"Andrew would implement the Freedom Dividend, a universal basic income of $1,000/month, $12,000 a year, for every American adult over the age of 18.

"This is independent of one’s work status or any other factor.

"This would enable all Americans to pay their bills, educate themselves, start businesses, be more creative, stay healthy, relocate for work, spend time with their children, take care of loved ones, and have a real stake in the future."

Let me guess, you're one of those stupid people.

 

[Andylusion]

Almost everyone's aware of Alaska's Permanent Fund:

"...The program began in 1976 after the discovery of oil on Alaska’s North Slope.

"The then-governor, a renegade Republican named Jay Hammond, concluded that this windfall was too good to just give to the oil companies.

"So he devised the program to share the revenue with Alaska residents...."

"OK, here’s the idea for President-elect Biden:

"Bring 20 of the Trumpiest-looking Alaskans to a press conference.

"Unveil a plan whereby every man, woman, and child gets a $1,000 check every month from the government.

"Finance it with taxes on large wealth, fossil fuels, financial transactions, and intellectual property resulting from taxpayer-funded public research.

"Invite the Alaskans to describe the joy of getting their checks: no middleman, no means tests, no government forms to fill out—just free money as everyone’s share of the American commons.

"Dare Mitch McConnell to oppose it."

A Big, Simple, Winning Issue for Biden

The "American commons" are the cultural and natural resources accessible to all members of society. In a time when the privileged few expand their vast fortunes despite a global pandemic and recession, it seems fitting to socialize the profits and privatize the losses.

Does anyone believe "Delaware Joe" will turn on his corporate benefactors?

So a couple of problems with this. Alaska has tons of oil wealth.

Do you know how much the Alaskan fund payout was last year? $1,000.... for the year. Not per month.

So if the profits from the oil in Alaska only has the ability to provide $1,000 per resident, when Alaska only has 700,000.... why would you conclude that you can provide $1,000 per month, to 330 Million people?

Finance it with taxes on large wealth, fossil fuels, financial transactions, and intellectual property resulting from taxpayer-funded public research.

So you are going to drive millions of people into poverty by jacking up the cost of fuels?.... and them give them a thousand dollars to make up for it?

Financial transactions will not generate much taxes. Countries have tried this. They simply moved where they do their banking outside the country with those taxes.

Taxes on wealth, will also not generate much money. Every country that has attempted that, has had the wealthy move out of that country.

Intellectual property.... Interesting concept... but I think the result of that would simply be that companies would just create their own products.

I can tell you from first hand experience in companies that had government funded projects, that if the government required them to pay royalties to the government.... they just simply wouldn't take any government money for the project.

So I doubt that would generate any revenue either.

Unveil a plan whereby every man, woman, and child gets a $1,000 check every month from the government

Are you ready for the economic catastrophe that would follow you implementing that?

Because I guarantee you that, in the event you put that system in place.... tens of millions of Americans will quit working, and the economy will dramatically decline.

I know for a fact, I will quit working. Seriously, you are going to pay me to sit at home? I'm not going to work. Promise you I'm not going to work. I'll live off you paying taxes for sure.

 

[Thinker101]

his topic seems to come up every so often, and one day it may happen, especially with a Biden/Harris admin. What they don't seem to realize is we'll get hyper-inflation and that $1000 would be better used as toilet paper.

Why haven't we seen any results from Alaska that would support your errant hyper-inflation hypothesis?

Wouldn’t Unconditional Basic Income Just Cause Massive Inflation?

"In 1982, Alaska began providing a partial basic income annually to all its residents.

"Until the first dividend, Alaska had a higher rate of inflation than the rest of the United States.

"But ever since the dividend was introduced, Alaska has had a lower rate of inflation than the rest of the United States."

It's Alaska....dumbass.

 

[Andylusion]

his topic seems to come up every so often, and one day it may happen, especially with a Biden/Harris admin. What they don't seem to realize is we'll get hyper-inflation and that $1000 would be better used as toilet paper.

Why haven't we seen any results from Alaska that would support your errant hyper-inflation hypothesis?

Wouldn’t Unconditional Basic Income Just Cause Massive Inflation?

"In 1982, Alaska began providing a partial basic income annually to all its residents.

"Until the first dividend, Alaska had a higher rate of inflation than the rest of the United States.

"But ever since the dividend was introduced, Alaska has had a lower rate of inflation than the rest of the United States."

Because that system doesn't cause people to stop working. A thousand dollars a year, doesn't cause people to quit their jobs.

You pay me a $1,000 a month, and I will quit my job. Promise you I will. If you are dumb enough to pay me to not work, I'll take every dollar you are stupid enough to give me.

And when 100 Million people are living off the government, all the taxes in the world won't be enough to generate the money needed to pay them.

Result will be inflation.

 

[georgephillip]

We should have no homeless problem in our first world economy. The right wing has nothing but ad hominems not any fine capital solutions at lower cost but still want to be taken seriously about Capitalism outside of Socialism threads.

For the last twenty five years the major park in my neighborhood has been off-limits to homeless tents. In the last two months the number of tents has proliferated to such an extent it is looking very likely the tents may be here to stay (at least until the MAGA-virus (magically) disappears. It is widely believed homelessness will increase dramatically next winter. Too much winning

 

[Missouri_Mike]

his topic seems to come up every so often, and one day it may happen, especially with a Biden/Harris admin. What they don't seem to realize is we'll get hyper-inflation and that $1000 would be better used as toilet paper.

Why haven't we seen any results from Alaska that would support your errant hyper-inflation hypothesis?

Wouldn’t Unconditional Basic Income Just Cause Massive Inflation?

"In 1982, Alaska began providing a partial basic income annually to all its residents.

"Until the first dividend, Alaska had a higher rate of inflation than the rest of the United States.

"But ever since the dividend was introduced, Alaska has had a lower rate of inflation than the rest of the United States."

Shockingly your little pea brain didn’t account for population increases and more efficient transportation costs. It was just the dividend.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Because that system doesn't cause people to stop working. A thousand dollars a year, doesn't cause people to quit their jobs.

You pay me a $1,000 a month, and I will quit my job. Promise you I will. If you are dumb enough to pay me to not work, I'll take every dollar you are stupid enough to give me.

And when 100 Million people are living off the government, all the taxes in the world won't be enough to generate the money needed to pay them.

Result will be inflation.

A thousand bucks a month is only 12K a year. If you only lived on that, you'd be living poorly because using a 40 hour week, that's less than minimum wage.


George has the right idea in a way, but the wrong approach. Universal income could work, not by making other people give you their money, but by using it to replace all our other social programs. Look at it this way:

You get this 1K a month and continue working. That's 12K a year for a single person, and an extra 24K a year for a couple. We have millions of people who don't have health insurance in this country. An extra 12 to 24K could certainly solve that problem, even if it's not the greatest plan. Working people who want to send their kids to college will find that problem solved as well. You could put some of that extra 24K in a college fund for your kids. When they turn of age, they too will be getting 12K a year, because I think it would be stupid for kids to be getting this money until they are an adult.

Because it would replace all social programs, women wouldn't be having more kids for more government handouts. One child or five children, you only get 12K a year to take care of them. No food stamps, no HUD, no childcare, no Medicaid. The problem with these social programs is, if anybody wants to climb out of poverty or better themselves, they have to stay under a certain income to keep receiving government goodies. They work less hours or don't work at all. So UI would encourage them to work or work more hours, give them an incentive to practice birth control, and it would actually solve most of the poverty in this country.

It would end this dichotomy between the rich, middle-class and the poor. The poor and middle-class couldn't complain about the rich, and the rich couldn't complain about others being on the dole because they will be too. The downside? Because we would have no more social programs, you'd have to sock away money for retirement. You'd need money for health insurance if you were formerly on Medicaid. You'd have to get disability insurance since there would be no more disability coverage through government. Long term medical care would be needed for your elderly years since there would be no more Medicare.

Where would the money come from? We could combine all the current payroll tax contributions into one with the exception of local taxes. Keep the rates the same for income taxes.

When you think about it, UI could solve many of our generation old problems in this country: Advanced education, healthcare, homelessness, wealth jealousy, laziness, people ripping off our systems......

 

[danielpalos]

They want to give free college, but why go to college if you get a basic income, sounds like a waste of time to get educated for nothing.....

I don't think many Americans would be content to live on their UBI stipend. Such a supplement might prevent a few medical bankruptcies, but I doubt if it produces a new US leisure class.

As far as education's concerned, understanding the world you live in has a value that far exceeds how much money you can exchange for your daily toil.

I believe we should solve simple poverty by solving for the deleterious effects of Capitalism's natural rate of unemployment with unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed in an at-will employment State. How much more market friendly can it get, with automatic stabilization of our economy?

Will you for once be honest and accurate with your language and state that you think we can solve poverty with welfare for people who don't want to provide for themselves? That's what you really mean when say dumb things like "simply being unemployed in an at-will employment State". You know that covers those who can work and who have available jobs but refuse to work. They are poor through their own choices and can take steps to become self-sufficient, but refuse to do so. Why should society perpetuate a negative set of actions by subsidizing them?

Capitalism has a natural rate of unemployment regardless. And, providing for the general welfare means solving for simple poverty.

Are you going to stop saying that welfare is UC?

UC falls under providing for the general welfare; that is why You are confused, right winger.

 

[danielpalos]

Think of the opportunity cost of taking an additional 4 trillion out of the economy.

Where are we taking the $4 trillion from?

Would you sacrifice 4 trillion dollars from Wall Street speculators, FIRE sector shareholders, and the Pentagon in order to gain an equal amount of consumption and investment?

Monopoly Capital - Wikipedia

"Fourth, military spending does not compete with capitalist interests in the same way as civilian spending and through imperialism serves to enhance those interests.

"Therefore, military spending is able to expand to a degree civilian spending is not, providing an important outlet for surplus absorption."

The problem is we have no general warfare clause in our federal Constitution and we should be promoting the general welfare not the general warfare every time it comes up.

And, I agree to disagree that military spending is better than infrastructure spending as a Government means of production.

But we do have a Constitutional mandate for defense. You want to deny that one while taking to ridiculous extremes the welfare clause.

lol. Our Constitutional mandate for the general Welfare is first not second.

Irrelevant. The constitutional mandate for defense is as absolute as the welfare clause.

Yes, and our welfare clause is general not common.

Again, irrelevant. You want to take the one to extremes while ignoring the other.

A general power outranks a common power every time it comes up.

 

[danielpalos]

Let's see if we can translate: You want wages to just continually rise, which is inflation because you're not doing anything to increase the value of the jobs

Productivity has also risen. Inflation happens regardless. The minimum wage should have kept up with inflation from Inception.

Does the burger flipper of today flip more burgers than the burger flipper of yesterday, or does he do about the same number? Does the floor sweeper sweep more floors today or about the same amount of square footage in a normal shift? Does the Wal-Mart greeter greet more people today than before? The productivity you're talking about is from automation. For example, you don't have thousands of men on an auto assembly line welding pieces together and turning bolts, you have a comparative handful monitoring machines that do a better job welding and putting on bolts. A worker has to learn new skills to operate the automated machines, which in turn means he doesn't get paid MW any more. So, since you brought it up, what MW jobs have seen increased productivity that would justify higher wages? Be specific.

Valuation just like the CEO is what matters.

What jobs? Be specific.

If the CEO gets compensated due to valuation why the difference for labor? Productivity has gone up.

 

[danielpalos]

Almost everyone's aware of Alaska's Permanent Fund:

"...The program began in 1976 after the discovery of oil on Alaska’s North Slope.

"The then-governor, a renegade Republican named Jay Hammond, concluded that this windfall was too good to just give to the oil companies.

"So he devised the program to share the revenue with Alaska residents...."

"OK, here’s the idea for President-elect Biden:

"Bring 20 of the Trumpiest-looking Alaskans to a press conference.

"Unveil a plan whereby every man, woman, and child gets a $1,000 check every month from the government.

"Finance it with taxes on large wealth, fossil fuels, financial transactions, and intellectual property resulting from taxpayer-funded public research.

"Invite the Alaskans to describe the joy of getting their checks: no middleman, no means tests, no government forms to fill out—just free money as everyone’s share of the American commons.

"Dare Mitch McConnell to oppose it."

A Big, Simple, Winning Issue for Biden

The "American commons" are the cultural and natural resources accessible to all members of society. In a time when the privileged few expand their vast fortunes despite a global pandemic and recession, it seems fitting to socialize the profits and privatize the losses.

Does anyone believe "Delaware Joe" will turn on his corporate benefactors?

What if someone doesnt want to work, but still wants the basic income? Why should other people work then?

They want to give free college, but why go to college if you get a basic income, sounds like a waste of time to get educated for nothing.....

Greed is good for some; we have a Commerce Clause; some people may not want be Poor under our form of Capitalism.

A lot of people don’t want to be fat or ugly. Yet here you are. Do we run a nation on your not wanting to be what you are?

I could be more greedy and work on Wallstreet to be able to afford cosmetic surgery.

There’s nothing more greedy than wanting something from someone else’s work. And nothing more vile than wanting the government to steal it for you.

Not the left wing's fault the right wing has no fine capital solutions only Hoax. Capitalism, what is That sayeth the Right Wing in all threads but socialism threads.