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Where did I say they fired on a ship?False. That ship was not the first ship that South Carolina fired upon.They had been trying to seize Fort Sumter for months. And again, it was U.S. property. South Carolina had no legal claims to it. If another country tried seizing an embassy of ours inside their own country, that too would be an act of war. Same with Fort Sumter. Lincoln had every right to defend that fort.
Where did I say they fired on a ship?
Yes SC had asked repeatedly for the Union garrison to evacuate, which they said they would. Then Lincoln’s lie and deceit became evident.
Why didn’t Lincoln contest the many other federal facilities? Why did he chose Ft Sumter?
Sounds like what would happen if Vladimir Putin tried to take back Alaska.Then when Lincoln was inaugurated, he put his foot down on Fort Sumter. And yet again, it was U.S. property and Lincoln had every right to do that.
It wasn’t US property. SC had seceded and demanded all federal installations be handed over. Your thinking it is akin to an embassy in a foreign land, is incorrect.They didn't say they would leave unconditionally. They said they would leave when their supplies ran out. South Carolina, which had already attacked at least one ship coming in with supplies, rejected that.
As far as other federal installations, before Lincoln was president, the south began seizing them. Forcing the occupants out. Then when Lincoln was inaugurated, he put his foot down on Fort Sumter. And yet again, it was U.S. property and Lincoln had every right to do that.
Interesting concept. So when the Iran government changed hands, it then became O.K. to take the US Embassy in Tehran.It wasn’t US property. SC had seceded and demanded all federal installations be handed over. Your thinking it is akin to an embassy in a foreign land, is incorrect.
It wasn’t US property. SC had seceded and demanded all federal installations be handed over. Your thinking it is akin to an embassy in a foreign land, is incorrect.
At any rate, Lincoln taking the nation to war over the actions of SC at Ft Sumter is nonsensical. He merely used it as a pretense to invade the south. You think his actions warranted. I don’t. Why didn’t he invade only SC, if Ft Sumter was so sacrosanct?
We were attacked by Japan, not Germany or Italy. Yet it was US vs the AXIS.As far why did Lincoln fight beyond South Carolina's border -- that's because the Confederacy declared themselves a new nation and the Confederate army attacked a U.S. fort. That was an act of war by the confederacy against the U.S.. As president of the U.S., it was within Lincoln's responsibility to fight the Confederacy, not just South Carolina.
No. Only SC attacked the fort that was in their land. All the other seceding states never attacked the Union.Holy fuck.
It was U.S. property. South Carolina had no legal right to demand the U.S. surrender it. That would be like me giving you ownership of my home... and then years later demand you get out because I unilaterally decided I want my home back.
And yes, it is like an embassy in the sense it is owned by the U.S., regardless of where it is.
As far why did Lincoln fight beyond South Carolina's border -- that's because the Confederacy declared themselves a new nation and the Confederate army attacked a U.S. fort. That was an act of war by the confederacy against the U.S.. As president of the U.S., it was within Lincoln's responsibility to fight the Confederacy, not just South Carolina.
Does this mean you would support Cuba taking back Guantanamo Bay?No. Only SC attacked the fort that was in their land.
No. Only SC attacked the fort that was in their land. All the other seceding states never attacked the Union.
You don’t believe the states could secede. I do, as did nearly everyone alive in the US prior to the war.
You believe in a perpetual union. Yet history tells you no nation has existed forever. You believe the State has the right to murder and destroy anyone who wishes to leave. I don’t.
As Dishonest Abe said in his first inaugural speech, as long as you pay the government it’s rightful taxes we’re good. If you don't, we’ll kill you.
Even if it were, how can you justify Lincoln’s actions? How can you justify a war he prosecuted that caused so much death and damage?It was U.S. property. It doesn't matter where it was located. South Carolina had no legal rights to it. Just like an embassy.
The same way I would justify FDR's actions.Even if it were, how can you justify Lincoln’s actions? How can you justify a war he prosecuted that caused so much death and damage?
Even if it were, how can you justify Lincoln’s actions? How can you justify a war he prosecuted that caused so much death and damage?
You think that admirable. I don’t. If every nation’s government is perpetual, the US wouldn’t exist.At the time he assembled an army, he had no way of knowing how deadly that war would be. But unlike his predecessor, who let the Confederacy seize federal property without any retribution, Lincoln stood up to the Confederacy.
The question that remains is where do we rank President Biden, I believe below Barack, but way above thuggish trump, likely in the high 10's to low 20's...And the criteria they utilized?
Me too"Hotsy Totsy, I See a Nazi"
The Godwin is strong in arrestmemouse. Too bad there's no vaccine for that.
There was no 'criteria.'I'm sure if you read the article carefully, it will give the criteria and methodology. Just like it gave the list of participants.
Do you not know how to use links? If you are that stupid, imagine what your opinion of these historians means...which ones?.....if they dont put their names out then it aint much of a list....
Internment camps for US citizens is not 'desperate times.' It is true, unadulterated authoritarianism. A true horrific instance of it and naked racism.Desperate Times
Lincoln preserved the union and ended slavery once and for all
FDR saved hundreds of thousands during the Depression and saved the World in WWII
Great men
aww did i say something you didnt like g?....and you get called stupid in these threads more than i do dumbass....Do you not know how to use links? If you are that stupid, imagine what your opinion of these historians means...
C-SPAN Survey on Presidents 2021
www.c-span.org
