US high school allows Muslims time for prayer if they earn good grades

[bodecea]

Oh, step off, syrenn. Christians can pray anytime they want. If you are suggesting that the Muslims are being accommodate unfairly, then the Christians can apply for the same accommodation. I would support that.

"You can throw a Hail Mary at a public school football game, but you can't actually hail Mary. That distinction is at the heart of a flurry of incidents this fall in which public universities and high schools are being challenged for conducting prayers before football games. In recent months...."
Column: When faith and football don't mix

You can Hail Mary all you want...just don't be in a leading position such as administrator or teacher and try to get everyone to do it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Public schools have to allow children to leave the classroom because their religion esquires it? When did that start? Why doesn't it apply to students with bad grades?

You screwed the pooch big time here Jake, come back and pretend you always supported equal treatment under the law by demanding that schools stop giving some groups special treatment if they earn it.

I earned a whole half day off every day of my last semester of high school because of all the credits I already had.

The question would be, if the school isn't required to give prayer time at ALL,

can they choose to make it a merit based privilege?

I'm now undecided.

It is unconstitutional still. If they are accommodating religions then they cannot make it merit based but if they are not accommodating religion then they are only giving that perk to those of a particular religion. It is all garbage. If they wanted to make this concession, they should have simply added a ten minute break in the middle of the day and that is when the students could pray.

As it stands, they are singling out a single religious faith and publicly making concessions based on grades. There are so many things wrong with that policy.

I said I'm undecided. It's not been established as fact that they have 'singled out' one faith, unless some other faith has been denied a comparable privilege.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Atheism, since it cannot be validated empirically or philosophically, operates on faith, like religion.

I think that is the thrust of QWB's argument.

Regardless of how the Court might view atheism,

it is certainly not an exercise of faith to choose not to believe in something for which there is no actual evidence to support its existence.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

US high school allows Muslims time for prayer if they earn good grades ? RT USA

yet , they ban kids from Christian prayer . tell them to a moment of silence instead..

Where's the part where the Christians have been denied the right to pray?

Do these count?

a. Six-year-old Zachary Hood was happy at this chance to be recognized for his good reading performance. He and the other students in the first-grade class at Haines School in Medford, New Jersey, would be allowed to read a story to their classmates. Zachary initially selected Dr. Suess's The Cat in the Hat, but decided that it was too long and picked a story about Jacob and Esau from The Beginner's Bible instead. … Unfortunately teacher Grace Oliva decided the story was inappropriate, since it has based on the Bible. She would not allow Zachary to read it to the students.
Liberty | A Magazine of Religious Freedom


b. A teacher's aide in Indiana County filed a federal civil rights lawsuit yesterday against her employer, saying she was unfairly suspended from her job for a year without pay for refusing to remove a small cross she wears on a necklace. Suspended teacher's aide sues employer over wearing cross on necklace


c. “A Lewis-Palmer High School student who was told she must apologize for mentioning Jesus in a valedictorian speech or not receive a diploma…” Monument teen appeals over Jesus graduation speech - The Denver Post

No, they don’t ‘count.’

The first example concerns what appears to be a decision made by the teacher alone, we don’t know if she was acting in accordance with sanctioned school policy because the link provided doesn’t lead to the cited passage.

And as we see in the third example below, schools are authorized to restrict school-sponsored speech, regardless its content.

The second example is clearly not applicable because it doesn’t concern a student. And it’s settled Establishment Clause jurisprudence that school employees may not promote religion.

And the third example fails, as already noted, because schools are allowed to restrict sponsored speech.

From the link provided:

Corder is seeking a declaration that the school violated her First Amendment rights and an injunction against the school preventing similar acts, said Mathew Staver of Liberty Counsel, which filed a federal suit against the school district in 2007.

A judge summarily dismissed her suit, finding that the district can limit what students say in a school setting, said Robin Adair, spokeswoman for the Lewis-Palmer School District.

"School sponsored speech has restrictions," Adair said. "That's what the judge upheld when he dismissed the suit."

The issue had nothing to do with religion per se, but the student taking it upon herself to change the text of the speech without the school’s approval.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Atheism, since it cannot be validated empirically or philosophically, operates on faith, like religion.

I think that is the thrust of QWB's argument.

The ‘argument’ fails nonetheless.

Again, there are no grounds for an atheist to make a Free Exercise Clause violation claim, as there is nothing for the state to prohibit an atheist from doing. The state can only attempt to compel an atheist to do something in some religious context, having nothing to do with his being free from faith, which is a potential Establishment Clause violation.

Atheism does not operate on ‘faith,’ one cannot not believe in something that never existed to begin with.

 

[Flopper]

US high school allows Muslims time for prayer if they earn good grades ? RT USA

yet , they ban kids from Christian prayer . tell them to a moment of silence instead..

Where's the part where the Christians have been denied the right to pray?

Do these count?

a. Six-year-old Zachary Hood was happy at this chance to be recognized for his good reading performance. He and the other students in the first-grade class at Haines School in Medford, New Jersey, would be allowed to read a story to their classmates. Zachary initially selected Dr. Suess's The Cat in the Hat, but decided that it was too long and picked a story about Jacob and Esau from The Beginner's Bible instead. … Unfortunately teacher Grace Oliva decided the story was inappropriate, since it has based on the Bible. She would not allow Zachary to read it to the students.
Liberty | A Magazine of Religious Freedom


b. A teacher's aide in Indiana County filed a federal civil rights lawsuit yesterday against her employer, saying she was unfairly suspended from her job for a year without pay for refusing to remove a small cross she wears on a necklace. Suspended teacher's aide sues employer over wearing cross on necklace


c. “A Lewis-Palmer High School student who was told she must apologize for mentioning Jesus in a valedictorian speech or not receive a diploma…” Monument teen appeals over Jesus graduation speech - The Denver Post

There's a big difference between reading the Bible to the class and prayer which does not involve the class.

 

[Plasmaball]

Do these count?

a. Six-year-old Zachary Hood was happy at this chance to be recognized for his good reading performance. He and the other students in the first-grade class at Haines School in Medford, New Jersey, would be allowed to read a story to their classmates. Zachary initially selected Dr. Suess's The Cat in the Hat, but decided that it was too long and picked a story about Jacob and Esau from The Beginner's Bible instead. … Unfortunately teacher Grace Oliva decided the story was inappropriate, since it has based on the Bible. She would not allow Zachary to read it to the students.
Liberty | A Magazine of Religious Freedom


b. A teacher's aide in Indiana County filed a federal civil rights lawsuit yesterday against her employer, saying she was unfairly suspended from her job for a year without pay for refusing to remove a small cross she wears on a necklace. Suspended teacher's aide sues employer over wearing cross on necklace


c. “A Lewis-Palmer High School student who was told she must apologize for mentioning Jesus in a valedictorian speech or not receive a diploma…” Monument teen appeals over Jesus graduation speech - The Denver Post

You don't get the difference either do you?

a) If she allowed the use of a bible she would have to allow the use of all holy books. It also looks like the school is promoting the bible. The teacher was right.

b) Wearing a cross is promoting a religion, and where she is a ward of the state, she can not promote one religion over another. Good luck turning this one over.

c)Again Speech at a school function is showing a promotion of a religion over another. If this was a private gathering then she would have every right to say what she said.

Keep trying, you might be able to come up with something worth half a shit.

You, as usual, missed the point.

1. The teacher was wrong because the assignment gave the student the choice.
2. Children in foster care are wards of the state, teachers are not.
3. Unless the school is controlling what is said they are not responsible for when students pray.

You should learn how the Lemon test works before you try to explain the results.

I didnt miss the point. They are not the samething, and no matter how much whining you do it isnt going to make it so.

1) teacher wasnt wrong, what a retarded statement
2) What? A teachers aid is a child in foster care? What the fuck are you talking about.
3)It is a school function therefore they have oversight on what is said.

Schools are not some bastion for freedom of speech, you don't get to do that there in a public school setting. Had these been Private, they would have been a non-issue and the people would have the right to do what the stories said they did.

Keep swinging.

 

[Plasmaball]

Where's the part where the Christians have been denied the right to pray?

Do these count?

a. Six-year-old Zachary Hood was happy at this chance to be recognized for his good reading performance. He and the other students in the first-grade class at Haines School in Medford, New Jersey, would be allowed to read a story to their classmates. Zachary initially selected Dr. Suess's The Cat in the Hat, but decided that it was too long and picked a story about Jacob and Esau from The Beginner's Bible instead. … Unfortunately teacher Grace Oliva decided the story was inappropriate, since it has based on the Bible. She would not allow Zachary to read it to the students.
Liberty | A Magazine of Religious Freedom


b. A teacher's aide in Indiana County filed a federal civil rights lawsuit yesterday against her employer, saying she was unfairly suspended from her job for a year without pay for refusing to remove a small cross she wears on a necklace. Suspended teacher's aide sues employer over wearing cross on necklace


c. “A Lewis-Palmer High School student who was told she must apologize for mentioning Jesus in a valedictorian speech or not receive a diploma…” Monument teen appeals over Jesus graduation speech - The Denver Post

No, they don’t ‘count.’

The first example concerns what appears to be a decision made by the teacher alone, we don’t know if she was acting in accordance with sanctioned school policy because the link provided doesn’t lead to the cited passage.

And as we see in the third example below, schools are authorized to restrict school-sponsored speech, regardless its content.

The second example is clearly not applicable because it doesn’t concern a student. And it’s settled Establishment Clause jurisprudence that school employees may not promote religion.

And the third example fails, as already noted, because schools are allowed to restrict sponsored speech.

From the link provided:

Corder is seeking a declaration that the school violated her First Amendment rights and an injunction against the school preventing similar acts, said Mathew Staver of Liberty Counsel, which filed a federal suit against the school district in 2007.

A judge summarily dismissed her suit, finding that the district can limit what students say in a school setting, said Robin Adair, spokeswoman for the Lewis-Palmer School District.

"School sponsored speech has restrictions," Adair said. "That's what the judge upheld when he dismissed the suit."

The issue had nothing to do with religion per se, but the student taking it upon herself to change the text of the speech without the school’s approval.

but, but the lemon law man!

Or the judges ruled exactly how i thought the outcome would be. Once again PC and QW are in the wrong. You would think they would have learned by now.

 

[Wildman]

US high school allows Muslims time for prayer if they earn good grades ? RT USA

yet , they ban kids from Christian prayer . tell them to a moment of silence instead..

Where's the part where the Christians have been denied the right to pray?

You know damn well that every day in America Christians are being denied to pray in school Teachers Told Not to Bow Heads, Pray in Public - FOX News Radio -

Arkansas School District Cancels Graduation Rather Than Allow Prayer

i thought Arkansas was in the "Bible Belt".., what happened there, liberals on one of the "separation" binges ??

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I earned a whole half day off every day of my last semester of high school because of all the credits I already had.

The question would be, if the school isn't required to give prayer time at ALL,

can they choose to make it a merit based privilege?

I'm now undecided.

It is unconstitutional still. If they are accommodating religions then they cannot make it merit based but if they are not accommodating religion then they are only giving that perk to those of a particular religion. It is all garbage. If they wanted to make this concession, they should have simply added a ten minute break in the middle of the day and that is when the students could pray.

As it stands, they are singling out a single religious faith and publicly making concessions based on grades. There are so many things wrong with that policy.

I said I'm undecided. It's not been established as fact that they have 'singled out' one faith, unless some other faith has been denied a comparable privilege.

I don't see them allowing Digambaras to go to school naked, no matter what there grades are. That means they are wrong, period.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Atheism, since it cannot be validated empirically or philosophically, operates on faith, like religion.

I think that is the thrust of QWB's argument.

The ‘argument’ fails nonetheless.

Again, there are no grounds for an atheist to make a Free Exercise Clause violation claim, as there is nothing for the state to prohibit an atheist from doing. The state can only attempt to compel an atheist to do something in some religious context, having nothing to do with his being free from faith, which is a potential Establishment Clause violation.

Atheism does not operate on ‘faith,’ one cannot not believe in something that never existed to begin with.

Did you check out the actual court decision that proves me right, and you wrong?

 

[Noomi]

US high school allows Muslims time for prayer if they earn good grades ? RT USA

yet , they ban kids from Christian prayer . tell them to a moment of silence instead..

There is no need to pray in school during classes. If you are Muslim, you can pray early morning, again before school, again during your lunch break, again when you arrive home, and finally, in the evening.

Christians can do the same.

 

[flowery]

there should be NO religion in public schools.

if the christians cant pray.... neither can the muslims.

if the muslims want to do their crap, they can go to muslim schools. [/COLOR]

Crap !!!

You insult yourself , your religion and your country when you insult others' religion

 

[flowery]

none of it should be accommodated. The chirstians should not be allowed to pray and the muslims should not be able to carry rugs. [/COLOR]

Each one has the right to pray as long as they don't disturb the class
and by the way:
Muslims don't have to carry a rug, it is not a part of the pray , It is just a cleanliness Issue no more .

 

[Noomi]

and that is bullshit. Hopefully they sue the school becasue they are offended.

there should be NO religion in public schools.

if the christians cant pray.... neither can the muslims.

if the muslims want to do their crap, they can go to muslim schools.

And if the Christians wish to pray, they can go to Christian school, I assume?

 

[auditor0007]

US high school allows Muslims time for prayer if they earn good grades ? RT USA

yet , they ban kids from Christian prayer . tell them to a moment of silence instead..

I only have a problem with this if the school is not also allowing Christian, Jewish, and students of any other religion to have group prayer time.

 

[flowery]

There is no need to pray in school during classes. If you are Muslim, you can pray early morning, again before school, again during your lunch break, again when you arrive home, and finally, in the evening.

Christians can do the same.

It is not like that,
Muslim prayer is not like Christian prayers
Muslims have certain times to do their prayer
and in school it means the noon (Duhr) prayer is the prayer that they should performance
It doesn't take more than five minutes

 

[flowery]

, you can pray early morning, again before school, again during your lunch break, again when you arrive home, and finally, in the evening.

Christians can do the same.

Really !!!!!!!

 

[Indofred]

I'm in Indonesia so you can guess as to the number of Muslim kids in our school.
Lessons are NOT made to fit prayer times so the teachers and kids pray when they have a free moment.
This isn't a problem at all so why do the idiot types want to make it into one?

This is non issue, being used by the right wing twits to make out Muslims are taking over American schools.

Get it?

 

[Noomi]

There is no need to pray in school during classes. If you are Muslim, you can pray early morning, again before school, again during your lunch break, again when you arrive home, and finally, in the evening.

Christians can do the same.

It is not like that,
Muslim prayer is not like Christian prayers
Muslims have certain times to do their prayer
and in school it means the noon (Duhr) prayer is the prayer that they should performance
It doesn't take more than five minutes

While preferable to pray at certain times, if you are unable to, you are not going to get into any trouble.