USS Liberty Remembered At Navy Memorial

[georgephillip]

only to communication system failures associated with the Liberty attack.

The reason for the bombing, yes. Also The Liberty was only 15 miles away from the war. Israel had warned the US to keep ships 100 miles away.

You understand the US Navy doesn't take orders from Israel, right?
That would be the US Congress.
Liberty was in international waters at all times during the attack.

 

[dilloduck]

Don't try to dodge the issue. You are attempting to stir up hatred of Jews by claiming that Israel, AKA "The Jewish State," attacked U.S. assets on purpose. There can be literally no other reason for you to push this preposterous claim so forcefully other than your own irrational hatred of Jews.

You are trying to use liberal logic to define the my motives and using trite " shoot the messenger " strategies to try to deflect from the truth.
FAIL.
I don't even find fault with Israel attacking the USS Liberty. The attacked it intentionally because they were trying to save their own asses. I would have done the same thing.

False dichotomy.

Explain what "they were trying to save their own asses" from, or I will be forced to assume that this is just another unqualified face-saving attempt of yours.

those that they were currently at war with.

 

[Peach]

You are trying to use liberal logic to define the my motives and using trite " shoot the messenger " strategies to try to deflect from the truth.
FAIL.
I don't even find fault with Israel attacking the USS Liberty. The attacked it intentionally because they were trying to save their own asses. I would have done the same thing.

False dichotomy.

Explain what "they were trying to save their own asses" from, or I will be forced to assume that this is just another unqualified face-saving attempt of yours.

those that they were currently at war with.

It was mistaken for an Egyptian ship, as I have written, she was many miles from where Israel believed any US ship would be.

 

[dilloduck]

False dichotomy.

Explain what "they were trying to save their own asses" from, or I will be forced to assume that this is just another unqualified face-saving attempt of yours.

those that they were currently at war with.

It was mistaken for an Egyptian ship, as I have written, she was many miles from where Israel believed any US ship would be.

I understand that is the claim----it just so happens that there is a lot of evidence that seems to counter that claim. How many times did Israeli planes look at it ? Are you claiming they we dumb that many times ?

 

[georgephillip]

False dichotomy.

Explain what "they were trying to save their own asses" from, or I will be forced to assume that this is just another unqualified face-saving attempt of yours.

those that they were currently at war with.

It was mistaken for an Egyptian ship, as I have written, she was many miles from where Israel believed any US ship would be.

That's not what eyewitnesses to the attack are saying.

"At approximately 0600 hours (all times local) on the morning of June 8, 1967 an Israeli maritime reconnaissance aircraft observer reported seeing 'a US Navy cargo type ship,' just outside the coverage of the Israeli coastal radar defense net, bearing the hull markings 'GTR-5'.[11]

"This report, made to Israeli naval HQ, was also forwarded immediately to the Israeli navy intelligence directorate.[12]

"Throughout the remainder of the day prior to the attack, Israeli reconnaissance aircraft regularly flew out to USS Liberty's position and orbited the ship before returning to their bases in Israel.

"A total of no fewer than eight (8) such flights were made.[13]

"At approximately 1050 hours, the naval observer from the early morning reconnaissance flight arrived at Israeli air force HQ and sat down with the air-naval liaison officer there.

"The two officers consulted Jane's Fighting Ships and learned that the ship reported earlier in the day was USS Liberty, a United States Navy technical research ship.[14]"

USS Liberty Memorial: Summary of Events

 

[Peach]

those that they were currently at war with.

It was mistaken for an Egyptian ship, as I have written, she was many miles from where Israel believed any US ship would be.

I understand that is the claim----it just so happens that there is a lot of evidence that seems to counter that claim. How many times did Israeli planes look at it ? Are you claiming they we dumb that many times ?

Not dumb, my father explained it to me; on a ship, which moves maybe 7-15 knots, it is tough to identify aircraft, obviously moving much faster. And vice versa. It was reported that the some ship in the area had fired on Israei aircraft. My father also said, at sea, it is difficult to locate the origin of sounds at times.

 

[dilloduck]

It was mistaken for an Egyptian ship, as I have written, she was many miles from where Israel believed any US ship would be.

I understand that is the claim----it just so happens that there is a lot of evidence that seems to counter that claim. How many times did Israeli planes look at it ? Are you claiming they we dumb that many times ?

Not dumb, my father explained it to me; on a ship, which moves maybe 7-15 knots, it is tough to identify aircraft, obviously moving much faster. And vice versa. It was reported that the some ship in the area had fired on Israei aircraft. My father also said, at sea, it is difficult to locate the origin of sounds at times.

Well I'm sure your father knows better than the people who were actually there.

 

[Peach]

I understand that is the claim----it just so happens that there is a lot of evidence that seems to counter that claim. How many times did Israeli planes look at it ? Are you claiming they we dumb that many times ?

Not dumb, my father explained it to me; on a ship, which moves maybe 7-15 knots, it is tough to identify aircraft, obviously moving much faster. And vice versa. It was reported that the some ship in the area had fired on Israei aircraft. My father also said, at sea, it is difficult to locate the origin of sounds at times.

Well I'm sure your father knows better than the people who were actually there.

He was injured on the Colorado, Battle of Leyte Gulf. 28-29 years in the US Navy, he knew quite a bit about ships, and WAR.

 

[dilloduck]

Not dumb, my father explained it to me; on a ship, which moves maybe 7-15 knots, it is tough to identify aircraft, obviously moving much faster. And vice versa. It was reported that the some ship in the area had fired on Israei aircraft. My father also said, at sea, it is difficult to locate the origin of sounds at times.

Well I'm sure your father knows better than the people who were actually there.

He was injured on the Colorado, Battle of Leyte Gulf. 28-29 years in the US Navy, he knew quite a bit about ships, and WAR.

If he would have been aboard the USS Liberty I would have loved to hear his story but it wasn't in the Philippines.

 

[Kondor3]

You are trying to use liberal logic to define the my motives and using trite " shoot the messenger " strategies to try to deflect from the truth.
FAIL.
I don't even find fault with Israel attacking the USS Liberty. The attacked it intentionally because they were trying to save their own asses. I would have done the same thing.

False dichotomy.

Explain what "they were trying to save their own asses" from, or I will be forced to assume that this is just another unqualified face-saving attempt of yours.

those that they were currently at war with.

They intentionally struck a US Navy ship in order to save their asses from the Egyptians?

 

[dilloduck]

False dichotomy.

Explain what "they were trying to save their own asses" from, or I will be forced to assume that this is just another unqualified face-saving attempt of yours.

those that they were currently at war with.

They intentionally struck a US Navy ship in order to save their asses from the Egyptians?

Check your history----they were at war with more countries than Egypt. Seriously---study up on this crap before you try to spew about it.

 

[Peach]

False dichotomy.

Explain what "they were trying to save their own asses" from, or I will be forced to assume that this is just another unqualified face-saving attempt of yours.

those that they were currently at war with.

They intentionally struck a US Navy ship in order to save their asses from the Egyptians?

That is one of the "Israel attacked the US ship on purpose" claims; doesn't cut it.

 

[Billo_Really]

They intentionally struck a US Navy ship in order to save their asses from the Egyptians?

The little Kondi boy just loves to show off his anti-American stripes!

 

[dilloduck]

those that they were currently at war with.

They intentionally struck a US Navy ship in order to save their asses from the Egyptians?

That is one of the "Israel attacked the US ship on purpose" claims; doesn't cut it.

Maybe because no one claimed it.

 

[Peach]

They intentionally struck a US Navy ship in order to save their asses from the Egyptians?

The little Kondi boy just loves to show off his anti-American stripes!

He seems quite American to me, the anti-Israel crowd seems.....banal, as Arendt described the inhumanity.

 

[Billo_Really]

He seems quite American to me, the anti-Israel crowd seems.....banal, as Arendt described the inhumanity.

A US ship is attacked and he sides with the attackers, does that sound like an American to you?

 

[georgephillip]

"Lenczowski notes that while the Israeli decision to 'attack and destroy' the ship 'may appear puzzling', the explanation seems to be found in Liberty's nature and its task to monitor communications on both sides in the war zone.

"He writes, 'Israel clearly did not want the U.S. government to know too much about its dispositions for attacking Syria, initially planned for 8 June, but postponed for 24 hours. It should be pointed out that the attack on Liberty occurred on 8 June, whereas on 9 June at 3 am, Syria announced its acceptance of the cease-fire. Despite this, at 7 am, that is, four hours later, Israel's minister of defense, Moshe Dayan, 'gave the order to go into action against Syria.'[82]

"He further writes that timely knowledge of this decision and preparatory moves toward it 'might have frustrated Israeli designs for the conquest of Syria’s Golan Heights' and, in the sense of Ennes’s accusations, provides 'a plausible thesis that Israel deliberately decided to incapacitate the signals-collecting American ship and leave no one alive to tell the story of the attack.'"

USS Liberty incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Peach]

He seems quite American to me, the anti-Israel crowd seems.....banal, as Arendt described the inhumanity.

A US ship is attacked and he sides with the attackers, does that sound like an American to you?

As the "attackers" were found to have fired on the ship without any intent to fire on a US ship, yes. I disagree with both of you, the investigationS at the time were thorough. US systems failed, as did Israeli. AFTER THE FIRST HIT, SMOKE obscured visual contact. And as always, Israel took responsibility, paid ALL claims, and showed remorse.

 

[Levy]

Israeli Pilot Speaks Up
Fifteen years after the attack, an Israeli pilot approached Liberty survivors and then held extensive interviews with former Congressman Paul N. (Pete) McCloskey about his role. According to this senior Israeli lead pilot, he recognized the Liberty as American immediately, so informed his headquarters, and was told to ignore the American flag and continue his attack. He refused to do so and returned to base, where he was arrested.

Later, a dual-citizen Israeli major told survivors that he was in an Israeli war room where he heard that pilot's radio report. The attacking pilots and everyone in the Israeli war room knew that they were attacking an American ship, the major said. He recanted the statement only after he received threatening phone calls from Israel.

The pilot's protests also were heard by radio monitors in the U.S. Embassy in Lebanon. Then-U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon Dwight Porter has confirmed this. Porter told his story to syndicated columnists Rowland Evans and Robert Novak and offered to submit to further questioning by authorities. Unfortunately, no one in the U.S. government has any interest in hearing these first-person accounts of Israeli treachery.

Key members of the Lyndon Johnson administration have long agreed that this attack was no accident. Perhaps most outspoken is former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Thomas Moorer. "I can never accept the claim that this was a mistaken attack," he insists.

Former Secretary of State Dean Rusk is equally outspoken, calling the attack deliberate in press and radio interviews. Similarly strong language comes from top leaders of the Central Intelligence Agency, National Security Agency (some of whose personnel were among the victims), National Security Council, and from presidential advisers such as Clark Clifford, Joseph Califano and Lucius Battle.

A top-secret analysis of Israel's excuse conducted by the Department of State found Israel's story to be untrue. Yet Israel and its defenders continue to stand by their claim that the attack was a "tragic accident" in which Israel mistook the most modern electronic surveillance vessel in the world for a rusted-out 40-year-old Egyptian horse transport.

http://www.wrmea.org/wrmea-archives...-liberty-still-covered-up-after-26-years.html

 

[georgephillip]

He seems quite American to me, the anti-Israel crowd seems.....banal, as Arendt described the inhumanity.

A US ship is attacked and he sides with the attackers, does that sound like an American to you?

As the "attackers" were found to have fired on the ship without any intent to fire on a US ship, yes. I disagree with both of you, the investigationS at the time were thorough. US systems failed, as did Israeli. AFTER THE FIRST HIT, SMOKE obscured visual contact. And as always, Israel took responsibility, paid ALL claims, and showed remorse.

Do you understand the Israeli torpedo boat crews fired on bright orange life rafts the crew of Liberty had tossed into the sea at a distance of less than a hundred yards?