Utah looking to repeal 17th amendment

[JakeStarkey]

Utah's state senate is one of the most corrupt in the US, barring Louisiana and New Jersey.

The state GOP is afraid Lee will get beaten this fall.

link

Not necessary. Everyone from Utah understands the Zion mafia.

Jews just piss you off...don't they bro?

"Zion mafia" means the LDS control in Zion, which means Utah to them.

Oh...I see. Did you know ****** patrol isn't racist? It just refers to black people who get in gangs.

You always look ignorant when you quarrel with me. LDS control in Utah is referred to as the Zion mafia. The term Zion curtain is also used. Blacks are also members in the LDS church. Use the word in Salt Lake City in public and you will get your butt kicked up your throat so your eye will be peeping out your ass. But since you would be frightened to do so, you are safe.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Maybe Utah should send Alvin Jackson to a remedial Constitution 101 class. Congress can't repeal a Constitutional Amendment.

we can clearly pass laws that infringe upon it.

Nonsense.

Acts of Congress are presumed to be Constitutional until the Supreme Court rules otherwise (US v. Morrison (2000)).

Consequently, laws currently in place having been determined by the Court to be Constitutional, or having never been subject to judicial review, are in no way ‘infringing’ on the Constitution.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Utah looking to repeal 17th amendment"

Again, such proposals from the right are made in bad faith.

This is not an effort by conservatives to return the Senate to the Framers’ ‘original intent’; rather, it’s a partisan power play by the right.

Conservatives ‘reason’ that with senators appointed again to the Senate by the states – where a majority of states are controlled by republicans – the Senate would continuously be controlled by republicans.

So this ‘proposal’ has nothing whatsoever to do with ‘protecting’ the people against their rulers, it has to do with partisan politics, and republicans advancing their wrongheaded agenda hostile to the people and their protected liberties.

Fortunately, and needless to say, this will never come to pass.

 

[Flash]

The original idea of the Senate was to have representation by the states. The people are represented in the House. The States in the Senate.

The States were to appoint the Senators to look after the interest of the States. That was a good thing.

However the 17th fucks that all up. That is a bad thing.

Now Senators are elected by direct vote. That means they can be influenced by outside parties.

For instance, a scumbag Liberal Senator like this clown Bill Nelson from Florida gets national union money and pro abortion funds whenever he runs. That is against the interest of Florida since the state is mostly conservative with regards to unions and abortion. When he runs for the Senate that asshole runs as a national Liberal, not as someone to protect the interest of Florida from an out of control Federal government.

This 17th is one of the nails in coffin of the Republic because the Senate is no longer a check on Federal power like it was designed to be. That is one of the reason this filthy ass Federal government has grown to the monstrosity it is. There is no real check on it.

 

[rightwinger]

The original idea of the Senate was to have representation by the states. The people are represented in the House. The States in the Senate.

The States were to appoint the Senators to look after the interest of the States. That was a good thing.

However the 17th fucks that all up. That is a bad thing.

Now Senators are elected by direct vote. That means they can be influenced by outside parties.

For instance, a scumbag Liberal Senator like this clown Bill Nelson from Florida gets national union money and pro abortion funds whenever he runs. That is against the interest of Florida since the state is mostly conservative with regards to unions and abortion. When he runs for the Senate that asshole runs as a national Liberal, not as someone to protect the interest of Florida from an out of control Federal government.

This 17th is one of the nails in coffin of the Republic because the Senate is no longer a check on Federal power like it was designed to be. That is one of the reason this filthy ass Federal government has grown to the monstrosity it is. There is no real check on it.

The States are comprised of We the People

Senators are elected by a direct vote instead of back room deals

 

[IsaacNewton]

How about trying this first. Elect people that won't be bought. If they are then bought, elect someone else.

Incumbents almost always get reelected. Look in the mirror America, the frankenstein that is Trump was sewn togother from pieces of the Republican body, and the corrupt US government has been elected to office, over and over.

What is that old saying about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

This is what elections are supposed to be for. Getting rid of idiots, and replacing them with their betters.

 

[Flash]

[

The States are comprised of We the People

Senators are elected by a direct vote instead of back room deals

I am sorry but for 125 years we did it like the Founding Fathers designed it to be.

Then it was changed and now we are not the United States of America anymore. We are nothing more than a big bloated corrupt out of control debt ridden oppressive welfare state shithole.

The 17th was not the only reason we became a shithole but it was one of the major contributing factors.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Flash, you sad?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The original idea of the Senate was to have representation by the states. The people are represented in the House. The States in the Senate.

The States were to appoint the Senators to look after the interest of the States. That was a good thing.

However the 17th fucks that all up. That is a bad thing.

Now Senators are elected by direct vote. That means they can be influenced by outside parties.

For instance, a scumbag Liberal Senator like this clown Bill Nelson from Florida gets national union money and pro abortion funds whenever he runs. That is against the interest of Florida since the state is mostly conservative with regards to unions and abortion. When he runs for the Senate that asshole runs as a national Liberal, not as someone to protect the interest of Florida from an out of control Federal government.

This 17th is one of the nails in coffin of the Republic because the Senate is no longer a check on Federal power like it was designed to be. That is one of the reason this filthy ass Federal government has grown to the monstrosity it is. There is no real check on it.

And this is an example of the ignorance and stupidity common to most on the right who advocate ‘repealing’ the 17th Amendment, it also illustrates the bad faith partisanism that motivates conservatives to ‘repeal’ the Amendment.

 

[rightwinger]

[

The States are comprised of We the People

Senators are elected by a direct vote instead of back room deals

I am sorry but for 125 years we did it like the Founding Fathers designed it to be.

Then it was changed and now we are not the United States of America anymore. We are nothing more than a big bloated corrupt out of control debt ridden oppressive welfare state shithole.

The 17th was not the only reason we became a shithole but it was one of the major contributing factors.

We have been directly electing Senators for 100 years

I don't think you can sell the American people that you don't trust their vote

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

[

The States are comprised of We the People

Senators are elected by a direct vote instead of back room deals

I am sorry but for 125 years we did it like the Founding Fathers designed it to be.

Then it was changed and now we are not the United States of America anymore. We are nothing more than a big bloated corrupt out of control debt ridden oppressive welfare state shithole.

The 17th was not the only reason we became a shithole but it was one of the major contributing factors.

Nonsense.

The fact is you and others on the right can’t be trusted; you’re devoid of credibility.

The propensity of most on the right to lie, the right’s blind partisanism that places party before country, and the conservative agenda hostile to the rights of gay Americans, women, Muslim Americans, and those transgender result in Americans simply not being able to believe conservatives.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

[

The States are comprised of We the People

Senators are elected by a direct vote instead of back room deals

I am sorry but for 125 years we did it like the Founding Fathers designed it to be.

Then it was changed and now we are not the United States of America anymore. We are nothing more than a big bloated corrupt out of control debt ridden oppressive welfare state shithole.

The 17th was not the only reason we became a shithole but it was one of the major contributing factors.

We have been directly electing Senators for 100 years

I don't think you can sell the American people that you don't trust their vote

And the American people certainly don’t trust conservatives.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

The Utah Senate Asks Congress to Repeal the 17th Amendment


“The framers of the Constitution created the United States Senate to protect the rights of individual states and safeguard minority opinion in a system of government designed to give greater power to the national government. They modeled the Senate on governors’ councils of the colonial era and on the state senates that had evolved since independence. The framers intended the Senate to be an independent body of responsible citizens who would share power with the president and the House of Representatives. James Madison, paraphrasing Edmund Randolph, explained in his notes that the Senate’s role was “first to protect the people against their rulers [and] secondly to protect the people against the transient impressions into which they themselves might be led.”



The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.

When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.

This amendment shall not be so construed as to affect the election or term of any Senator chosen before it becomes valid as part of the Constitution.[1]

17th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: Direct Election of U.S. Senators. Americans did not directly vote for senators for the first 125 years of the Federal Government. The Constitution, as it was adopted in 1788, stated that senators would be elected by state legislatures.




I can understand why they would want that, but the idea that it would end corruption is silly, you're just spreading it around.

The reason, in my opinion, has nothing to do with corruption. The reason is to give power back to the states by allowing them representation in the congress. Corruption was one of the arguments made to pass this horrible amendment in the first place.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The Utah Senate Asks Congress to Repeal the 17th Amendment


“The framers of the Constitution created the United States Senate to protect the rights of individual states and safeguard minority opinion in a system of government designed to give greater power to the national government. They modeled the Senate on governors’ councils of the colonial era and on the state senates that had evolved since independence. The framers intended the Senate to be an independent body of responsible citizens who would share power with the president and the House of Representatives. James Madison, paraphrasing Edmund Randolph, explained in his notes that the Senate’s role was “first to protect the people against their rulers [and] secondly to protect the people against the transient impressions into which they themselves might be led.”



The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.

When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.

This amendment shall not be so construed as to affect the election or term of any Senator chosen before it becomes valid as part of the Constitution.[1]

17th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: Direct Election of U.S. Senators. Americans did not directly vote for senators for the first 125 years of the Federal Government. The Constitution, as it was adopted in 1788, stated that senators would be elected by state legislatures.




I can understand why they would want that, but the idea that it would end corruption is silly, you're just spreading it around.

The reason, in my opinion, has nothing to do with corruption. The reason is to give power back to the states by allowing them representation in the congress. Corruption was one of the arguments made to pass this horrible amendment in the first place.

You’re entitled to your opinion, however wrong.

The ‘reason’ is to give republicans unbreakable control of the Senate – as well as Congress, given the gerrymandering of House districts.

The Amendment is not ‘horrible’ since it’s preventing that from happening.

 

[rightwinger]

So what would happen if Republican state legislatures were allowed to select Senators instead of voters?

Hmm,,,let me see

 

[norwegen]

the 17th Amendment is an amendment and not a law.

there must have been a good reason to go that far and does that reason exist today.

Progressivism was the reason, and yes, it still exists. Progresives defend the amendment.

Shifting the power to select senators from the state legislatures to the people was one of the most significant progressive measures to expand democracy in the political system. The Senate was once shaped more by national interests than by concerns more parochial, but what the states got with the Seventeenth Amendment was not the “appointment of senators, . . . vastly the advantage of elections by the people in their collective capacity,” but rather a Senate governed by "the activity of party zeal, taking advantage of the supineness, the ignorance, the hopes, and the fears of the unwary and interested." *



* John Jay to the People of the State of New York, 5 March, 1788, Independent Journal, The Powers of the Senate (Federalist 64).

 

[OKTexas]

It's the difference between direct democracy and being a republic.

And We the People, basically said, that the Founders got this portion of it wrong.

You and Two Thumbs are peas in a pod, one on the left and one on the right.

You only hear what you want to hear.

That States ratified it, they can abolish it if they chose. Too often children think they know better than the adults, then they grow up.

 

[norwegen]

The conservative wing of the Republican Party of today hates democracy.

Chosen by the people, senators are beholden to the people, to a constituency “often agitated with passions of jealousy and envy.” Passions and prejudice presiding over the state legislatures is another blow to republicanism for the sake of democracy. Beholden to the people for the selection of their officers, state senates lose visibility in the United States while the people become more vocal, upsetting representational balance and contravening the originalist intent that Alexander Hamilton highlighted in the Federalist.*


* Alexander Hamilton to the People of the State of New York, 21 November, 1787, Independent Journal, The Union as a Safeguard Against Domestic Faction and Insurrection (Federalist 9).

 

[OKTexas]

Maybe Utah should send Alvin Jackson to a remedial Constitution 101 class. Congress can't repeal a Constitutional Amendment.

we can clearly pass laws that infringe upon it.

Nonsense.

Acts of Congress are presumed to be Constitutional until the Supreme Court rules otherwise (US v. Morrison (2000)).

Consequently, laws currently in place having been determined by the Court to be Constitutional, or having never been subject to judicial review, are in no way ‘infringing’ on the Constitution.

What about presidents the blatantly violate existing law?

 

[OKTexas]

[

The States are comprised of We the People

Senators are elected by a direct vote instead of back room deals

I am sorry but for 125 years we did it like the Founding Fathers designed it to be.

Then it was changed and now we are not the United States of America anymore. We are nothing more than a big bloated corrupt out of control debt ridden oppressive welfare state shithole.

The 17th was not the only reason we became a shithole but it was one of the major contributing factors.

We have been directly electing Senators for 100 years

I don't think you can sell the American people that you don't trust their vote

And the American people certainly don’t trust conservatives.

You mean regressive sodomite enabling Americans don't trust conservatives, tell us again how many State houses and legislators are controlled by republicans.