Victory: Wisconsin Teachers Just Voted to Disband Their Teachers Union

[Gadawg73]

I had a meeting downtown Atlanta this morning at a high tech company that has their office in a loft space that used to be all industrial area on Ellsworth Industrial Blvd.
The employees come to work in jeans and tennis shoes WITH THEIR FUCKING DOGS.
The guy I was interviewing was in the back watching his retriever take a dump while I took his statement.
They have on site day care, cafe, game room, pool and ping pong tables and pay $85K a year to start.
But they are not "fair, NO business is ever "fair".
Some folks live in LAH LAH land, they have never crossed the lines and had one penny of their hard earned money at risk in the business world.

 

[Jarlaxle]

They get a lot of "paid Holiday time" if you count the summer as "paid" time (they're really just getting paid less over the course of the year and receiving it in the summer).

Been down this road before. These discussions always go the same way. Numerous Teachers will show up on the thread to vehemently defend their constant whining. And then i'll grow tired & bored laying reality on em. So i won't be going down that long road this time. Teachers have played the victim and cried wolf for too long. They do enjoy fantastic perks unique to their profession. They don't have it nearly as bad as they claim. They are by far the biggest whiners of all the professions. And the Taxpayers are sick of being held hostage. If they're so unhappy, they should simply find another profession. No one likes a whiner.

The "discussions" go the same way because you claim teachers have "fantastic perks", then when pressed on the point mention a few mundane things most workers have.

They have gold-plated health care, gold-plated pensions, every fake holiday under the sun, a week or more off in December, February, and April, and summers off.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I doubt most workers would find three months of unpaid leave desirable.

Teachers get paychecks year-round.

Yes, because their total compensation is split out over the calendar year. They're not being paid for the time they're not working.

They still get full-time pay (and gold-plated benefits) for a part-time job!

 

[JakeStarkey]

Seriously though, who really wants to send their child into today's Public School mess? Other alternatives are looking more & more appealing by the day.

Only if one has the money for super private schools or to move in to outstanding public school districts.

Home schooling can be a shield for predators.

Actually, Public Schools are much more effective shields for predators. In fact, it's a disturbing epidemic in our Public Schools today. And Teacher Unions have been despicable in consistently defending these predators. More & more parents are deciding not to chance it. They're seeking alternatives. Good for them.

Most predators are family members, Sherlock.

You are the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[paulitician]

Been down this road before. These discussions always go the same way. Numerous Teachers will show up on the thread to vehemently defend their constant whining. And then i'll grow tired & bored laying reality on em. So i won't be going down that long road this time. Teachers have played the victim and cried wolf for too long. They do enjoy fantastic perks unique to their profession. They don't have it nearly as bad as they claim. They are by far the biggest whiners of all the professions. And the Taxpayers are sick of being held hostage. If they're so unhappy, they should simply find another profession. No one likes a whiner.

The "discussions" go the same way because you claim teachers have "fantastic perks", then when pressed on the point mention a few mundane things most workers have.

They have gold-plated health care, gold-plated pensions, every fake holiday under the sun, a week or more off in December, February, and April, and summers off.

Yeah, i already listed some of their great perks. But of course the poster refused to acknowledge them as great perks. That's why i just assumed i was conversing with another whiny Teacher. They always find their way to these threads. I've been there, done that. That's why i blew it off. They only like to rant about the negatives of their profession. You rarely observe Teachers mentioning the fantastic perks that are unique to their profession. And that's why the People are sick of them. Too much whining and not enough producing. They deserve this backlash they're experiencing.

 

[paulitician]

Only if one has the money for super private schools or to move in to outstanding public school districts.

Home schooling can be a shield for predators.

Actually, Public Schools are much more effective shields for predators. In fact, it's a disturbing epidemic in our Public Schools today. And Teacher Unions have been despicable in consistently defending these predators. More & more parents are deciding not to chance it. They're seeking alternatives. Good for them.

Most predators are family members, Sherlock.

You are the gift that keeps on giving.

Many predators are not. So what's your point? What's your answer? Force em all into your failing Public School dungeons?

 

[FJO]

Teaching should not be considered a JOB. Teaching should be considered as a vocation, a calling and a time devoted to improve the future generation, not a way to a padded and undeserved comfortable pension, three months per year vacation and the ability to indoctrinate helpless and impressionable youngsters that in life there are no winners and losers, everyone deserves an equal outcome.

Teachers who willingly join a union are no better than the useless thugs who are in the unions populated by grade school dropout assembly line attendees (sorry, can't say assembly line WORKERS) or those who are stupid and cowardly and dependent on some bully to speak for them.

If a person who claims to be a teacher is so weak that he/she needs a bully to speak on his/her behalf, how can he/she be competent enough to to teach anything?

 

[DaGoose]

The "discussions" go the same way because you claim teachers have "fantastic perks", then when pressed on the point mention a few mundane things most workers have.

They have gold-plated health care, gold-plated pensions, every fake holiday under the sun, a week or more off in December, February, and April, and summers off.

Yeah, i already listed some of their great perks. But of course the poster refused to acknowledge them as great perks. That's why i just assumed i was conversing with another whiny Teacher. They always find their way to these threads. I've been there, done that. That's why i blew it off. They only like to rant about the negatives of their profession. You rarely observe Teachers mentioning the fantastic perks that are unique to their profession. And that's why the People are sick of them. Too much whining and not enough producing. They deserve this backlash they're experiencing.

(Spoken like someone who knows nothing about the teaching profession. My wife has taught school for nearly 30 years. She loves teaching, is very good at it and gets along well with most of the parents. (The ones she has a problem with are the ones who take no interest in their childrens education.) For that she gets paid $53k (most people with Masters Degrees make MUCH, MUCH more.) But to be fair she gets paid for a 9 month school year. Her reward (besides watching her students excel) is salary, health insurance and a pension of 28k a year with health care for which she has to pay $400 a month out of her pension checks. Hardly "gold plated". )

Teaching should not be considered a JOB. Teaching should be considered as a vocation, a calling and a time devoted to improve the future generation, not a way to a padded and undeserved comfortable pension, three months per year vacation and the ability to indoctrinate helpless and impressionable youngsters that in life there are no winners and losers, everyone deserves an equal outcome.

("Undeserved comfortable pension"? Wow. I want to see you go to your local school and get truly educated as to what they really get.)

Teachers who willingly join a union are no better than the useless thugs who are in the unions populated by grade school dropout assembly line attendees (sorry, can't say assembly line WORKERS) or those who are stupid and cowardly and dependent on some bully to speak for them.

If a person who claims to be a teacher is so weak that he/she needs a bully to speak on his/her behalf, how can he/she be competent enough to to teach anything?

My response is the reality of teacher work and compensation. But don't take my word for it, go talk to the teachers. Or you can read it in the paper since ALL public school teacher salaries and benefits are published in local newspapers on an annual basis. Class dismissed.

 

[EriktheRed]

I doubt most workers would find three months of unpaid leave desirable.

It's not really "unpaid", it's apportioned throughout the year so they can draw a paycheck in the off-school months.

 

[EriktheRed]

You can keep saying that, but it doesn't make it any more true. I have worked and currently work for a business that does treat it's employees quite well. Most businesses that require higher skilled labor do that in fact. As one increases their marketable skills they have more bargaining power and get treated better. Simple as that.

I never said "employers treat their employees poorly", so you're arguing against a strawman. Businesses hire the cheapest labor they can get that meets their needs. It would be crazy to expect them to do otherwise.

Do you realize how ignorant you are? How many businesses do you run or own?
In one of my businesses we are the top tier in this industry in Georgia.
I pay my employees TOP wages in this field as that is what THE MARKET DEMANDS.
THE MARKET, not what an employer wants to pay, DETERMINES THE WAGES.
And the market is very thin at the top of my field for the best of the best employees.
Stick to something you know something about. You do not know shit about running a business of any kind.

How exactly is he wrong?

Do you pay more than what THE MARKET DEMANDS when you hire? Don't you pay the least that you can, whatever it is that determines that?

 

[FJO]

Having weekends off is a fantastic perk? Outside of people working service jobs, that's pretty standard.

These days it is. But Teachers enjoy other great perks too. They themselves rarely mention them, but they're pretty good. Check out how many weeks of paid Holiday time they get off. It's pretty fantastic. Their perks are unique to their profession. Most other professions don't enjoy such perks.

Not only that, but how those vacation days are used.

Luckily, I worked for a company, that gave me six weeks of vacation after 15 years. Once I reached that plateau, I decided to give something back, so starting with the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew in 1992, I devoted one or two weeks of my vacation time to volunteer work, mostly with Habitat for Humanity.

I kept that up from 1993 to 2008, when my arthritis and weak heart finally caught up with me.

Through all those years I met and made friends with a lot of people. None of them were teachers. Coincidentally, or otherwise, hardly any of them were Democrats. And none of them were members of a union.

 

[DaGoose]

Having weekends off is a fantastic perk? Outside of people working service jobs, that's pretty standard.

These days it is. But Teachers enjoy other great perks too. They themselves rarely mention them, but they're pretty good. Check out how many weeks of paid Holiday time they get off. It's pretty fantastic. Their perks are unique to their profession. Most other professions don't enjoy such perks.

Not only that, but how those vacation days are used.

Luckily, I worked for a company, that gave me six weeks of vacation after 15 years. Once I reached that plateau, I decided to give something back, so starting with the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew in 1992, I devoted one or two weeks of my vacation time to volunteer work, mostly with Habitat for Humanity.

I kept that up from 1993 to 2008, when my arthritis and weak heart finally caught up with me.

Through all those years I met and made friends with a lot of people. None of them were teachers. Coincidentally, or otherwise, hardly any of them were Democrats. And none of them were members of a union.

There are two things in your post that I find interesting.

1) You say they "gave" you six weeks of vacation. I get 30 days per year and feel I have worked and earned them. The company doesn't "give" me anything.

2) That you met a lot of people but not one of them was a member of a labor union or a democrat? So you went around asking people what their political affiliation was and if they beloged to a union?

Habitat, labor unions launch ?Labor With Habitat Week? | Habitat for Humanity Int'l

Habitat Addresses Housing Crisis with Labor Unions

Labor with Habitat Week is a weeklong celebration, May 16-22, recognizing the partnership between Habitat and the trades unions

 

[FJO]

Once Habitat for Humanity linked up with unions, they lost my volunteering and 12 years of respect, forever, mind you when the founder was caught in marital infidelity it was already on that road.

The company I worked for, DID give me six weeks of vacation; I never asked for it, and no union ever "got" it for me. I was happy to be a workaholic and if there was no law about mandatory retirement I would still be doing what I loved to do for so many years.

Also, I earned my job qualification by teaching myself. I attended no collage, but I ended up proof-reading reports by graduates, prior to submitting said reports to The Boss, who was blissfully unaware that his hand-picked and privileged protegees needed a self-taught immigrant to correct their spelling errors prior to submitting their reports.

OK, for the other part of your doubts: When volunteers complete a day of working, they sit down and get to know each other and talk - not surprisingly - politics.

That is how I met a couple from Indianapolis who eloped at the age of seventeen and are now the millionaire owners of a dry cleaning and laundry business.

Have you ever done any volunteer work and talk with your fellow volunteers about politics?

 

[westwall]

It's interesting that the middle class seems to be in decline with unions. Go figure.

I suggest you read the John McPhee book "Looking for a Ship". He describes how the American merchant marine was destroyed by the union. The union made it so unprofitable to run a ship that other than APL (now foreign flagged) and Matson (required to stay American flagged because of military contract) all the others had closed up shop and moved away.

Nowadays you will be hard pressed to find an American Merchant Mariner of any sort.
They had excellent, high paying jobs that are now gone. Or how about the longshoreman? They have been so obnoxious on the west coast that two new ports have been built. One in Canada and one in Mexico so that the shippers will be able to bypass the longshoreman. Yet again good high paying jobs destroyed and shipped out of the country because of ignorance and greedy union bosses.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Looking-Ship-John-McPhee/dp/0374523193]Looking for a Ship: John McPhee: 9780374523190: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

 

[DaGoose]

Once Habitat for Humanity linked up with unions, they lost my volunteering and 12 years of respect, forever, mind you when the founder was caught in marital infidelity it was already on that road.

The company I worked for, DID give me six weeks of vacation; I never asked for it, and no union ever "got" it for me. I was happy to be a workaholic and if there was no law about mandatory retirement I would still be doing what I loved to do for so many years.

Also, I earned my job qualification by teaching myself. I attended no collage, but I ended up proof-reading reports by graduates, prior to submitting said reports to The Boss, who was blissfully unaware that his hand-picked and privileged protegees needed a self-taught immigrant to correct their spelling errors prior to submitting their reports.

OK, for the other part of your doubts: When volunteers complete a day of working, they sit down and get to know each other and talk - not surprisingly - politics.

That is how I met a couple from Indianapolis who eloped at the age of seventeen and are now the millionaire owners of a dry cleaning and laundry business.

Have you ever done any volunteer work and talk with your fellow volunteers about politics?

Hmmm....I spent 10 years volunteering on a fire dept, 14 years on ESDA, 25 years as a Mason and 14 years on LEPC and never once thought to grill anyone over their political leanings. The only group where we discussed politics is during the 10 years I spent on the County Board as an elected official (the last two years as Vice-Chair).

And again...the company I work for doesn't GIVE me anything. Are you saying you didn't earn your pay and benefits? Where do I sign up where pay and benefits are given without expecting anything in return???

I work and I earn the pay and benefits they pay me. I don't GIVE them anything and they don't GIVE me anything. That's the bottom line.

 

[DaGoose]

It's interesting that the middle class seems to be in decline with unions. Go figure.

I suggest you read the John McPhee book "Looking for a Ship". He describes how the American merchant marine was destroyed by the union. The union made it so unprofitable to run a ship that other than APL (now foreign flagged) and Matson (required to stay American flagged because of military contract) all the others had closed up shop and moved away.

Nowadays you will be hard pressed to find an American Merchant Mariner of any sort.
They had excellent, high paying jobs that are now gone. Or how about the longshoreman? They have been so obnoxious on the west coast that two new ports have been built. One in Canada and one in Mexico so that the shippers will be able to bypass the longshoreman. Yet again good high paying jobs destroyed and shipped out of the country because of ignorance and greedy union bosses.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Looking-Ship-John-McPhee/dp/0374523193]Looking for a Ship: John McPhee: 9780374523190: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

So if I understand you correctly we should lower our standard of living to that of lesser nations in order to "compete"? We should emulate Mexico as how our workers should be compensated for their labor? Please explain what their wages and benefits should be.

 

[Jarlaxle]

They have gold-plated health care, gold-plated pensions, every fake holiday under the sun, a week or more off in December, February, and April, and summers off.

Yeah, i already listed some of their great perks. But of course the poster refused to acknowledge them as great perks. That's why i just assumed i was conversing with another whiny Teacher. They always find their way to these threads. I've been there, done that. That's why i blew it off. They only like to rant about the negatives of their profession. You rarely observe Teachers mentioning the fantastic perks that are unique to their profession. And that's why the People are sick of them. Too much whining and not enough producing. They deserve this backlash they're experiencing.

(Spoken like someone who knows nothing about the teaching profession. My wife has taught school for nearly 30 years. She loves teaching, is very good at it and gets along well with most of the parents. (The ones she has a problem with are the ones who take no interest in their childrens education.) For that she gets paid $53k (most people with Masters Degrees make MUCH, MUCH more.) But to be fair she gets paid for a 9 month school year. Her reward (besides watching her students excel) is salary, health insurance and a pension of 28k a year with health care for which she has to pay $400 a month out of her pension checks. Hardly "gold plated". )

Teaching should not be considered a JOB. Teaching should be considered as a vocation, a calling and a time devoted to improve the future generation, not a way to a padded and undeserved comfortable pension, three months per year vacation and the ability to indoctrinate helpless and impressionable youngsters that in life there are no winners and losers, everyone deserves an equal outcome.

("Undeserved comfortable pension"? Wow. I want to see you go to your local school and get truly educated as to what they really get.)

Teachers who willingly join a union are no better than the useless thugs who are in the unions populated by grade school dropout assembly line attendees (sorry, can't say assembly line WORKERS) or those who are stupid and cowardly and dependent on some bully to speak for them.

If a person who claims to be a teacher is so weak that he/she needs a bully to speak on his/her behalf, how can he/she be competent enough to to teach anything?

My response is the reality of teacher work and compensation. But don't take my word for it, go talk to the teachers. Or you can read it in the paper since ALL public school teacher salaries and benefits are published in local newspapers on an annual basis. Class dismissed.

In other words, you agree with me: she gets full-time pay and benefits for her part-time job.

 

[francoHFW]

Teachers need and deserve all they get, hater dupes. Nothing easy about it.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Are you on drugs?

 

[hipeter924]

Without teachers unions America would be even worse shape, as teachers are already so low paid that they are leaving the US in the thousands. Plenty of teachers in the US have left due to the stagnant pay and poor working conditions teachers get in the US, some of my own teachers in New Zealand were American born*.

* http://www.teachnz.govt.nz/teaching-in-new-zealand/salaries/: Elementary/High School teachers earn $47,519 (with BA), after seven years they earn $68,755; and with a full teaching qualification $72,645.