VietNam..April 30th....How It Ended.

[Oldguy]

So do I became I lost more friends at close to exactly the same time in Cambodia and in both cases it was communist assholes ultimately responsible for the deaths.

Communist's were responsible for Kent State? I'd REALLY like to hear your explanation of THAT!

Simple. It was the "protesters"-led by communists and communist sympathizers- who started and escalated the violence at Kent State and this time they got the violent response they wanted and martyrs to the cause.

That's funny. They got what they wanted? Well...then I assume what they wanted was no more violent campus protests because there weren't any after Kent State and Jackson State.

 

[there4eyeM]

"KENT, Ohio -- A noisy, violent altercation and four pistol shots took place about 70 seconds before Ohio National Guardsmen opened fire on antiwar protesters at Kent State University, according to a new analysis of a 40-year-old audiotape of the event.
The discovery adds new perspective to -- and raises new questions about -- one of the signature events of the 20th century, after four decades of spirited discussion and research."
Kent State tape indicates altercation and pistol fire preceded National Guard shootings (audio) | cleveland.com

There is no excuse for National Guard presence at Kent state.

There is no justification for their carrying loaded weapons.

There is no justification for firing indiscriminately into a crowd of students.

There is no justification for those who killed that day not to be at least in prison.

Thanks for dropping by, Mr. Alinsky

Glad to be of service, Ms Reifenstahl.

 

[Oldguy]

WE lost in South VeitNam and still

no dominos fell.​

Instead we have become a valued trading partner with the communists that we so feared.

Which means people my age knew one fuck of a lot of our generation who

died for a lie​

Bullshit. The NVA had occupied large portions of Cambodia, Laos, and Thailand when I was there in '70. And when RSVN fell there was indeed the expected bloodbath both there and in Cambodia.

"died for a lie"? That is both wrong and sick. My bros. died accomplishing a mission given them by the American people via the government and military exactly the same as anyone else who has fought for this country.

Yes, there was a bloodbath in the aftermath of the war, and especially in Pol Pot's Cambodia.

Tell me...who finally put an end to the murderous Khymer Rouge?

 

[editec]

WE lost in South VeitNam and still

no dominos fell.​

Instead we have become a valued trading partner with the communists that we so feared.

Which means people my age knew one fuck of a lot of our generation who

died for a lie​

Bullshit. The NVA had occupied large portions of Cambodia, Laos, and Thailand when I was there in '70. And when RSVN fell there was indeed the expected bloodbath both there and in Cambodia.

"died for a lie"? That is both wrong and sick. My bros. died accomplishing a mission given them by the American people via the government and military exactly the same as anyone else who has fought for this country.

Did any dominos fall, Lad? I ask because that dubious theory was the entire justification for why the USA had to insinuate itself in that stupid fucking war

No, editec, no dominos fell," should have been your answer if you were being honest

Quite the contrary Viet Nam has become one of our favored trading partners.

So the basic justification for that stupid fucking war was entirely bullshit.

 

[PoliticalChic]

WE lost in South VeitNam and still

no dominos fell.​

Instead we have become a valued trading partner with the communists that we so feared.

Which means people my age knew one fuck of a lot of our generation who

died for a lie​

Bullshit. The NVA had occupied large portions of Cambodia, Laos, and Thailand when I was there in '70. And when RSVN fell there was indeed the expected bloodbath both there and in Cambodia.

"died for a lie"? That is both wrong and sick. My bros. died accomplishing a mission given them by the American people via the government and military exactly the same as anyone else who has fought for this country.

Yes, there was a bloodbath in the aftermath of the war, and especially in Pol Pot's Cambodia.

Tell me...who finally put an end to the murderous Khymer Rouge?

How about I tell you a more important truth, and an eternal truth, at that:

The link between communism and the massacre of millions is indelible.

And this: Democrat record of aiding communism every chance they get is as indelible.


1. The record of Communist states massacring large numbers of their own people is well documented. Starting with the Soviet Union, which pioneered the terror-famine, mass deportations, concentration camps and mass executions, Stalin murdered up to 20 million. Under Mao Tse-Tung, an estimated 65 million Chinese were killed by execution, torture, and starvation. Vietnam, over a million. North Korea, about two million. Courtois, et.al., “The Black Book of Communism,” p. 611.
While high on the list proportionally, the Cambodian Communists were not qualitatively different from the rest.


a. Khmer Rouge leader Khieu Samphan, who had studied in Paris, wrote in his doctoral dissertation that the Cambodian economy and social structure would be renewed by tapping “the dormant energy of the peasant mass” against the cities. “Kissinger, “The White House Years,” p. 518.
The ideology was influenced by Stalin, Kim Il-Sung, and Mao.


b. True to the collectivist doctrines, family feeling and other human connections were sternly discouraged, as were displays of affection, compassion and kindness. A man who attempted to keep his wounded son by his side was chastised “You have individualist tendencies. You must shed these illusions.” Courtois, Ibid, p. 605.



2. Starting in April ’75, the Communist Khmer Rouge defeated Lon Nol in Cambodia. Democrats, starting with the 1974 budget, refused to allocate another penny, and forbade US military action “in or over” Indochina. Just as the right had warned, the communists began a systematic war on the entire populations of their nation, so savage, it is hard to comprehend. It is estimated that the number of dead numbered between 1.7 to 2.5 million out of a population of around 8 million. Killing Fields - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

a. “The pedicab did not move to the side of the road so a soldier killed the driver with machine gun fire….A young soldier thrust his rifle through the window of the car, then shot the driver through the heart, and he crumpled in the arms of his wife…”I’m going to pick up my family,” Without warning, a soldier sprayed him with machine gun bullets….The frantic parents protested and sought to reclaim their children on the other side of the communist column. The patrol leader thereupon fired a volley of rifle shots, killing both mother and father.” Barron and Paul, “Murder of a Gentle Land, “ p.26-28.


b. Later, to save bullets, the Khmer Rouge switched to other methods of execution, including clubbing, asphyxiation, and dousing the head with gasoline and setting it on fire. Courtois, et.al., “The Black Book of Communism,” p. 611



3. Whittaker Chambers wrote in his book WITNESS that liberals are/were incapable of ever effectively fighting Communism because they did not see anything in Communism that was antithetical to their own beliefs. In short, Liberals are Communists and Communists are Liberals. The revisionist is aware of the horrors of Communism; the tortures, the Gulags, the over 100 million persons done to death.

 

[oldfart]

Thanks for dropping by, Mr. Alinsky

Glad to be of service, Ms Reifenstahl.

PC would probably get off on Leni's life story if she ever read it. Especially her recreational activities while filming "Olympia".

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The folks who 'supported us' were a corrupt government fighting to hold onto the drug trade in the Golden Triangle.

what a load of simplistic bullshit

Are you denying that there is any truth here?

there is always a kernel of truth in every successful lie

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

WE lost in South VeitNam and still

no dominos fell.​

Instead we have become a valued trading partner with the communists that we so feared.

Which means people my age knew one fuck of a lot of our generation who

died for a lie​

Bullshit. The NVA had occupied large portions of Cambodia, Laos, and Thailand when I was there in '70. And when RSVN fell there was indeed the expected bloodbath both there and in Cambodia.

"died for a lie"? That is both wrong and sick. My bros. died accomplishing a mission given them by the American people via the government and military exactly the same as anyone else who has fought for this country.

Dominoes fell. What happened? Nothing. It was a stupid fucking scare tactic meant to be used in a stupider game with the Soviets and Red Chinese

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

"Most of us in the anti war movement were against the Weathermen and any form of violent protest"....just followed their orders......

The fact that everyone agrees the weathermen were instigators, proves they were outsiders coming into peaceful demonstrations..

Sort of like Tea Party assholes during election times

Instigators??

No....your accepted leaders.


And you follow them to this day.
,,,

How you've survived this far in life is beyond me.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The fact that everyone agrees the weathermen were instigators, proves they were outsiders coming into peaceful demonstrations..

Sort of like Tea Party assholes during election times

Instigators??

No....your accepted leaders.


And you follow them to this day.
,,,

How you've survived this far in life is beyond me.

Survive????

Pshaw....


THRIVE!

 

[PoliticalChic]

The fact that everyone agrees the weathermen were instigators, proves they were outsiders coming into peaceful demonstrations..

Sort of like Tea Party assholes during election times

Instigators??

No....your accepted leaders.


And you follow them to this day.
,,,

How you've survived this far in life is beyond me.

For a less frivolous answer:

The human attempt for self-gratification is usually kept in check, within bounds, by religion, morality, law, and, by the necessity to work hard based on the fear of want. Much of the former was removed by the French Revolution, and in modern America, and another restriction was removed by the rising affluence of the last century; suppressed by WWI, and then by the Depression, but released by the 9-year expansion of the 1960’s.

The effect of affluence was increased, multiplied, by the fact that parents, who had known the hardships of the Depression, and WWII, were determined to give their children every comfort that they could.
Bork, Op. Cit., chapter one.


a. A leader of SDS wrote :” Without thinking about it, we all took the fat of the land for granted.”
Todd Gitlin, “The Sixties: Years of Hope, Days of Rage,” p. 104

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Instigators??

No....your accepted leaders.


And you follow them to this day.
,,,

How you've survived this far in life is beyond me.

Survive????

Pshaw....


THRIVE!

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Instigators??

No....your accepted leaders.


And you follow them to this day.
,,,

How you've survived this far in life is beyond me.

For a less frivolous answer:

The human attempt for self-gratification is usually kept in check, within bounds, by religion, morality, law, and, by the necessity to work hard based on the fear of want. Much of the former was removed by the French Revolution, and in modern America, and another restriction was removed by the rising affluence of the last century; suppressed by WWI, and then by the Depression, but released by the 9-year expansion of the 1960’s.

The effect of affluence was increased, multiplied, by the fact that parents, who had known the hardships of the Depression, and WWII, were determined to give their children every comfort that they could.
Bork, Op. Cit., chapter one.


a. A leader of SDS wrote :” Without thinking about it, we all took the fat of the land for granted.”
Todd Gitlin, “The Sixties: Years of Hope, Days of Rage,” p. 104

and in so doing they raised a generation of misfits and miscreants...the me generation(s)

 

[there4eyeM]

Thanks for dropping by, Mr. Alinsky

Glad to be of service, Ms Reifenstahl.

PC would probably get off on Leni's life story if she ever read it. Especially her recreational activities while filming "Olympia".

Which were...?

 

[Spoonman]

the north vietnamese used to say they always knew they were assured of victory. what we don't win on the battlefield we will win in your universities, like berkley and columbia. We will win in your cities and through your journalists. and were they ever right.

 

[there4eyeM]

the north vietnamese used to say they always knew they were assured of victory. what we don't win on the battlefield we will win in your universities, like berkley and columbia. We will win in your cities and through your journalists. and were they ever right.

Meaning, they were counting on free speech?

 

[konradv]

"You're the truly uninformed. The whole reason why there was a war in Viet Nam is because we failed to allow democracy to take its course. We backed a minority regime that refused to allow a plebiscite on reunification and the rest, as they say, is history." __________________

When the area was partitioned into North and South (as was Korea) hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese left most of what they owned behind and went South to avoid Uncle Ho's communist government. Do you really think that they would want a rigged election to negate their efforts?

The North left behind thousands of troops to make sure of the results of any vote. In short there was never any real possibility of an honest vote and any attempt to hold one would very likely have resulted in a bloodbath to no point. The stay behinds formed the cadre of the VC and the majority were to die during the '68 Tet offensive after slaughtering thousands of SVN civilians.

Instead you had rigged elections by the government we supported, 50,000+ American dead and millions of Vietnamese. Hardly seems worth it.

 

[there4eyeM]

"...and in so doing they raised a generation of misfits and miscreants...the me generation(s)"

Yes, with Cheney and Co. as prime examples.

 

[konradv]

"...and in so doing they raised a generation of misfits and miscreants...the me generation(s)"

Yes, with Cheney and Co. as prime examples.

Gore was there. Bush stayed home.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

the north vietnamese used to say they always knew they were assured of victory. what we don't win on the battlefield we will win in your universities, like berkley and columbia. We will win in your cities and through your journalists. and were they ever right.

they also said since it was their country they would just wait us out like they did the French

see?