Vietnam War was unwinnable

[harmonica]

Actually it was the military leadership lying to their Presidents and to the press, which is always stupid in a country with a free press, same as it was for Britain's governments over a hundred years or so. This made it easy for the commie friendly press to distort the war and spread bullshit propaganda at home. And yes, when Congress fecklessly abandoned the South Vietnamese govt. in 1975, it fell, and only then; they had two big countries supplying material and troops against a tiny half of country. In any event, by that time the Soviets had gone bankrupt and were on western life support, and couldn't exploit their Pyrrhic victory, and were toast as far as their imperialist dreams were concerned. We won the Cold War, and Viet Nam played a major role in bankrupting the Soviets, so it was a victory in the strategic sense.

Absolutely true. It just irritates me that while it was in fact a victory in any other sense.... there was heavy morale damage done by people saying that we lost.... when we most certainly did not.

And it still persists to this day. We did not lose. We left. There is a difference. It's like Bobby Fischer.

View attachment 275813
Remember when Bobby knew he was going to win already, but offered to concede? The other guy refused, and told him to keep play, and Bobby won. Because him leaving, is not the same as beating him.

We left the match. We left because of all this crap by left-wingers here in the US. If we had simply unshackled our military, we would have easily destroyed the North Vietnamese.

Even during the rolling thunder campaign by Nixion, the military was complaining about the restrictions on targets. You can't win a war, by having some blow hard politicians in Washington sitting there, micro managing "ok you can bomb that... but no you can't bomb that.... and you might be able to bomb that. I'll ask about it in a committee meeting next week".

You can't win with that. You have to let the military do the job. Or DO NOT DO THE JOB.

This is like Mogadishu. The military said to the government we need this and this, and that, and this, to do this job. The government said.... no, you don't need all that. So we rolled into Mogadishu with only partially equipped and armored units, and then got torn up by some half starving militia units.

You can't do it that way. Ridiculous.

We didn’t leave because of the crap coming from left wingers

We left because we were in over our heads with no other way out

Bull. Not true. You are wrong sir. Even the bombing that Nixion authorized worked to push the North to work towards a ceasefire. And even with that bombing campaign, the military was constantly complaining that the restrictions were hampering their effectiveness.

Up to the very end, we had so many restrictions placed on our military by the people in our government.... that failure was the only possible outcome.

Rewind the tape, eliminate all the restrictions, let the military do it's job.... we would have won, and won without a fraction of the KIAs.

thank you

North to work towards a ceasefire.

 

[harmonica]

Actually it was the military leadership lying to their Presidents and to the press, which is always stupid in a country with a free press, same as it was for Britain's governments over a hundred years or so. This made it easy for the commie friendly press to distort the war and spread bullshit propaganda at home. And yes, when Congress fecklessly abandoned the South Vietnamese govt. in 1975, it fell, and only then; they had two big countries supplying material and troops against a tiny half of country. In any event, by that time the Soviets had gone bankrupt and were on western life support, and couldn't exploit their Pyrrhic victory, and were toast as far as their imperialist dreams were concerned. We won the Cold War, and Viet Nam played a major role in bankrupting the Soviets, so it was a victory in the strategic sense.

Absolutely true. It just irritates me that while it was in fact a victory in any other sense.... there was heavy morale damage done by people saying that we lost.... when we most certainly did not.

And it still persists to this day. We did not lose. We left. There is a difference. It's like Bobby Fischer.

View attachment 275813
Remember when Bobby knew he was going to win already, but offered to concede? The other guy refused, and told him to keep play, and Bobby won. Because him leaving, is not the same as beating him.

We left the match. We left because of all this crap by left-wingers here in the US. If we had simply unshackled our military, we would have easily destroyed the North Vietnamese.

Even during the rolling thunder campaign by Nixion, the military was complaining about the restrictions on targets. You can't win a war, by having some blow hard politicians in Washington sitting there, micro managing "ok you can bomb that... but no you can't bomb that.... and you might be able to bomb that. I'll ask about it in a committee meeting next week".

You can't win with that. You have to let the military do the job. Or DO NOT DO THE JOB.

This is like Mogadishu. The military said to the government we need this and this, and that, and this, to do this job. The government said.... no, you don't need all that. So we rolled into Mogadishu with only partially equipped and armored units, and then got torn up by some half starving militia units.

You can't do it that way. Ridiculous.

Hey, if Hitler let HIS military run things,he might have won. You pick the right wars to enter, that's part of the game-I personally think the Pope massaged Kennedy to save the South VietNam Catholics, just like he is pushing illegals down our throats to fill the pews today.

hitler is NOT winning a war against Russia
he still has troops in Norway/France/Balkans/etc etc etc
there is resistance everywhere
he's fighting in North Africa
he is still fighting Britain
Russia is too big--with a larger population

Stalin was prepared to offer Hitler the Ukraine and Balkans if Hitler stopped. Then Hitler diverted his troops. Who knows what the fate of Russia might have been?

proof please

 

[harmonica]

Even though the cost was high, we did win in a way. Vietnam seems to have become more capitalist over the years. They manufacture alot of the stuff sold in Walmart, and they've become a tourist attraction.

I mean, compared to North Korea.

A North Vam General wrote a book and in it he stated that they were beat three times, but without the cease fires they would have had to lower the flag. The stopping of the war allowed them to restock and rearm and recruit new men and women......We never lost a fight or battle in Nam you could say we defeated ourselves.

I blame that shithead Walter Cronkite. He was the one who lost the war for us. From that point on, CBS couldn't be trusted.

Buh-Bye, Walter Cronkite: He Lost the Vietnam War for U.S. on TV, Had American Blood on His Hands

then why did the French lose?
why did the Brits lose in Afghanistan 1839 and then the Russians??

 

[harmonica]

We won the Vietnam War, we had a peace signed by Nixon and it would have held if the fucking Democrats hadn't fucking made him resign.

that's why the NVA stormed the palace?

 

[harmonica]

Even though the cost was high, we did win in a way. Vietnam seems to have become more capitalist over the years. They manufacture alot of the stuff sold in Walmart, and they've become a tourist attraction.

I mean, compared to North Korea.

A North Vam General wrote a book and in it he stated that they were beat three times, but without the cease fires they would have had to lower the flag. The stopping of the war allowed them to restock and rearm and recruit new men and women......We never lost a fight or battle in Nam you could say we defeated ourselves.

I blame that shithead Walter Cronkite. He was the one who lost the war for us. From that point on, CBS couldn't be trusted.

Buh-Bye, Walter Cronkite: He Lost the Vietnam War for U.S. on TV, Had American Blood on His Hands

from Ken Burns book:
1953 Gen. Navarre says: ''victory was near: Now we can see it clearly, ...like the light at the end of the tunnel''
1968 United States Ambassador Bunker says:
''I think we're now beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel''
do you not see the similarity?

unwinnable
the North won both wars---against a more powerful country
Walter had nothing to do with it --that's insane
a lot of French were tired of the war JUST LIKE a lot of Americans were WITHOUT Walter
same same
.....read my last few posts [with evidence ]--about the last 10 posts--SAME ---same crap of war with the French and the US

 

[Third Party]

Actually it was the military leadership lying to their Presidents and to the press, which is always stupid in a country with a free press, same as it was for Britain's governments over a hundred years or so. This made it easy for the commie friendly press to distort the war and spread bullshit propaganda at home. And yes, when Congress fecklessly abandoned the South Vietnamese govt. in 1975, it fell, and only then; they had two big countries supplying material and troops against a tiny half of country. In any event, by that time the Soviets had gone bankrupt and were on western life support, and couldn't exploit their Pyrrhic victory, and were toast as far as their imperialist dreams were concerned. We won the Cold War, and Viet Nam played a major role in bankrupting the Soviets, so it was a victory in the strategic sense.

Absolutely true. It just irritates me that while it was in fact a victory in any other sense.... there was heavy morale damage done by people saying that we lost.... when we most certainly did not.

And it still persists to this day. We did not lose. We left. There is a difference. It's like Bobby Fischer.

View attachment 275813
Remember when Bobby knew he was going to win already, but offered to concede? The other guy refused, and told him to keep play, and Bobby won. Because him leaving, is not the same as beating him.

We left the match. We left because of all this crap by left-wingers here in the US. If we had simply unshackled our military, we would have easily destroyed the North Vietnamese.

Even during the rolling thunder campaign by Nixion, the military was complaining about the restrictions on targets. You can't win a war, by having some blow hard politicians in Washington sitting there, micro managing "ok you can bomb that... but no you can't bomb that.... and you might be able to bomb that. I'll ask about it in a committee meeting next week".

You can't win with that. You have to let the military do the job. Or DO NOT DO THE JOB.

This is like Mogadishu. The military said to the government we need this and this, and that, and this, to do this job. The government said.... no, you don't need all that. So we rolled into Mogadishu with only partially equipped and armored units, and then got torn up by some half starving militia units.

You can't do it that way. Ridiculous.

Hey, if Hitler let HIS military run things,he might have won. You pick the right wars to enter, that's part of the game-I personally think the Pope massaged Kennedy to save the South VietNam Catholics, just like he is pushing illegals down our throats to fill the pews today.

hitler is NOT winning a war against Russia
he still has troops in Norway/France/Balkans/etc etc etc
there is resistance everywhere
he's fighting in North Africa
he is still fighting Britain
Russia is too big--with a larger population

Stalin was prepared to offer Hitler the Ukraine and Balkans if Hitler stopped. Then Hitler diverted his troops. Who knows what the fate of Russia might have been?

proof please

I am not dropping things to do research for you. Read 1941-1943 for an in depth view of Operation Barbarossa and the statement I posted was from a TV show on WWII. If you don't take my word, don't respond to my posts. If you are curious, google your ass off.

 

[Camp]

Perhaps the most decisive and controversial propaganda during the war, which, as seen in many posts in this thread still continues today, was that American forces won every battle and the Vietcong and NVA were defeated, in every battle. The problem with that analysis and conclusions is that the Americans and Communist had completely different interpretations and conclusions of what the meaning of "Victory" and "Defeat" means.

 

[harmonica]

Absolutely true. It just irritates me that while it was in fact a victory in any other sense.... there was heavy morale damage done by people saying that we lost.... when we most certainly did not.

And it still persists to this day. We did not lose. We left. There is a difference. It's like Bobby Fischer.

View attachment 275813
Remember when Bobby knew he was going to win already, but offered to concede? The other guy refused, and told him to keep play, and Bobby won. Because him leaving, is not the same as beating him.

We left the match. We left because of all this crap by left-wingers here in the US. If we had simply unshackled our military, we would have easily destroyed the North Vietnamese.

Even during the rolling thunder campaign by Nixion, the military was complaining about the restrictions on targets. You can't win a war, by having some blow hard politicians in Washington sitting there, micro managing "ok you can bomb that... but no you can't bomb that.... and you might be able to bomb that. I'll ask about it in a committee meeting next week".

You can't win with that. You have to let the military do the job. Or DO NOT DO THE JOB.

This is like Mogadishu. The military said to the government we need this and this, and that, and this, to do this job. The government said.... no, you don't need all that. So we rolled into Mogadishu with only partially equipped and armored units, and then got torn up by some half starving militia units.

You can't do it that way. Ridiculous.

Hey, if Hitler let HIS military run things,he might have won. You pick the right wars to enter, that's part of the game-I personally think the Pope massaged Kennedy to save the South VietNam Catholics, just like he is pushing illegals down our throats to fill the pews today.

hitler is NOT winning a war against Russia
he still has troops in Norway/France/Balkans/etc etc etc
there is resistance everywhere
he's fighting in North Africa
he is still fighting Britain
Russia is too big--with a larger population

Stalin was prepared to offer Hitler the Ukraine and Balkans if Hitler stopped. Then Hitler diverted his troops. Who knows what the fate of Russia might have been?

proof please

I am not dropping things to do research for you. Read 1941-1943 for an in depth view of Operation Barbarossa and the statement I posted was from a TV show on WWII. If you don't take my word, don't respond to my posts. If you are curious, google your ass off.

hahahhahahahh
NO PROOF --as usual
I don't need to google anything
I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years!!!!!!

....just like Japan stabbing the US in the back, Germany did the same to Russia = they are not giving up

 

[Third Party]

Even though the cost was high, we did win in a way. Vietnam seems to have become more capitalist over the years. They manufacture alot of the stuff sold in Walmart, and they've become a tourist attraction.

I mean, compared to North Korea.

A North Vam General wrote a book and in it he stated that they were beat three times, but without the cease fires they would have had to lower the flag. The stopping of the war allowed them to restock and rearm and recruit new men and women......We never lost a fight or battle in Nam you could say we defeated ourselves.

I blame that shithead Walter Cronkite. He was the one who lost the war for us. From that point on, CBS couldn't be trusted.

Buh-Bye, Walter Cronkite: He Lost the Vietnam War for U.S. on TV, Had American Blood on His Hands

from Ken Burns book:
1953 Gen. Navarre says: ''victory was near: Now we can see it clearly, ...like the light at the end of the tunnel''
1968 United States Ambassador Bunker says:
''I think we're now beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel''
do you not see the similarity?

unwinnable
the North won both wars---against a more powerful country
Walter had nothing to do with it --that's insane
a lot of French were tired of the war JUST LIKE a lot of Americans were WITHOUT Walter
same same
.....read my last few posts [with evidence ]--about the last 10 posts--SAME ---same crap of war with the French and the US

Every night, every TV station, showed the day's casualties. Cronkite eloquently put what we were all thinking. That was the only opinion we saw from him and it was a good one, ending with sincere praise for America and Americans. I dare you to find that today. And CBS was at war with the Smother's Brothers, who were anti war-they lost their show.

 

[Third Party]

Hey, if Hitler let HIS military run things,he might have won. You pick the right wars to enter, that's part of the game-I personally think the Pope massaged Kennedy to save the South VietNam Catholics, just like he is pushing illegals down our throats to fill the pews today.

hitler is NOT winning a war against Russia
he still has troops in Norway/France/Balkans/etc etc etc
there is resistance everywhere
he's fighting in North Africa
he is still fighting Britain
Russia is too big--with a larger population

Stalin was prepared to offer Hitler the Ukraine and Balkans if Hitler stopped. Then Hitler diverted his troops. Who knows what the fate of Russia might have been?

proof please

I am not dropping things to do research for you. Read 1941-1943 for an in depth view of Operation Barbarossa and the statement I posted was from a TV show on WWII. If you don't take my word, don't respond to my posts. If you are curious, google your ass off.

hahahhahahahh
NO PROOF --as usual
I don't need to google anything
I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years!!!!!!

....just like Japan stabbing the US in the back, Germany did the same to Russia = they are not giving up

SO, WHAT did you study, oh great field marshall?

 

[rightwinger]

Even though the cost was high, we did win in a way. Vietnam seems to have become more capitalist over the years. They manufacture alot of the stuff sold in Walmart, and they've become a tourist attraction.

I mean, compared to North Korea.

A North Vam General wrote a book and in it he stated that they were beat three times, but without the cease fires they would have had to lower the flag. The stopping of the war allowed them to restock and rearm and recruit new men and women......We never lost a fight or battle in Nam you could say we defeated ourselves.

I blame that shithead Walter Cronkite. He was the one who lost the war for us. From that point on, CBS couldn't be trusted.

Buh-Bye, Walter Cronkite: He Lost the Vietnam War for U.S. on TV, Had American Blood on His Hands

from Ken Burns book:
1953 Gen. Navarre says: ''victory was near: Now we can see it clearly, ...like the light at the end of the tunnel''
1968 United States Ambassador Bunker says:
''I think we're now beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel''
do you not see the similarity?

unwinnable
the North won both wars---against a more powerful country
Walter had nothing to do with it --that's insane
a lot of French were tired of the war JUST LIKE a lot of Americans were WITHOUT Walter
same same
.....read my last few posts [with evidence ]--about the last 10 posts--SAME ---same crap of war with the French and the US

The French lost 50,000 soldiers just like we did

 

[rightwinger]

Perhaps the most decisive and controversial propaganda during the war, which, as seen in many posts in this thread still continues today, was that American forces won every battle and the Vietcong and NVA were defeated, in every battle. The problem with that analysis and conclusions is that the Americans and Communist had completely different interpretations and conclusions of what the meaning of "Victory" and "Defeat" means.

We used body count as a way to declare victory

They were willing to die for their country
We were unwilling to die for someone else’s country

 

[WillPower]

mg you are putting out bullshit --maybe you believe it because you want to
they were NOT surrendering--per my book quotes
they TOYED with the US during the negotiations--per the book quotes---etc
General Vo Nguyen Giap on the Vietnam War

You have no idea what happened there or what you're talking about.

 

[WillPower]

We used body count as a way to declare victory

They were willing to die for their country
We were unwilling to die for someone else’s country

You're a fucking cartoon.

 

[Third Party]

hitler is NOT winning a war against Russia
he still has troops in Norway/France/Balkans/etc etc etc
there is resistance everywhere
he's fighting in North Africa
he is still fighting Britain
Russia is too big--with a larger population

Stalin was prepared to offer Hitler the Ukraine and Balkans if Hitler stopped. Then Hitler diverted his troops. Who knows what the fate of Russia might have been?

proof please

I am not dropping things to do research for you. Read 1941-1943 for an in depth view of Operation Barbarossa and the statement I posted was from a TV show on WWII. If you don't take my word, don't respond to my posts. If you are curious, google your ass off.

hahahhahahahh
NO PROOF --as usual
I don't need to google anything
I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years!!!!!!

....just like Japan stabbing the US in the back, Germany did the same to Russia = they are not giving up

SO, WHAT did you study, oh great field marshall?

And
soviethammer.blogspot.com/2016/07/to-save..

 

[harmonica]

Stalin was prepared to offer Hitler the Ukraine and Balkans if Hitler stopped. Then Hitler diverted his troops. Who knows what the fate of Russia might have been?

proof please

I am not dropping things to do research for you. Read 1941-1943 for an in depth view of Operation Barbarossa and the statement I posted was from a TV show on WWII. If you don't take my word, don't respond to my posts. If you are curious, google your ass off.

hahahhahahahh
NO PROOF --as usual
I don't need to google anything
I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years!!!!!!

....just like Japan stabbing the US in the back, Germany did the same to Russia = they are not giving up

SO, WHAT did you study, oh great field marshall?

And
soviethammer.blogspot.com/2016/07/to-save..

??? that sends me to a bunch of articles --MANY articles--some on NATO
????and it's not even a link--it's not highlighted ..I had to copy and past
!!???

 

[harmonica]

mg you are putting out bullshit --maybe you believe it because you want to
they were NOT surrendering--per my book quotes
they TOYED with the US during the negotiations--per the book quotes---etc
General Vo Nguyen Giap on the Vietnam War

You have no idea what happened there or what you're talking about.

that's why the French and the US lost--because those wars were winnable !!!
not 1 but TWO countries --much more powerful than North Vietnam

 

[Third Party]

proof please

I am not dropping things to do research for you. Read 1941-1943 for an in depth view of Operation Barbarossa and the statement I posted was from a TV show on WWII. If you don't take my word, don't respond to my posts. If you are curious, google your ass off.

hahahhahahahh
NO PROOF --as usual
I don't need to google anything
I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years!!!!!!

....just like Japan stabbing the US in the back, Germany did the same to Russia = they are not giving up

SO, WHAT did you study, oh great field marshall?

And
soviethammer.blogspot.com/2016/07/to-save..

??? that sends me to a bunch of articles --MANY articles--some on NATO
????and it's not even a link--it's not highlighted ..I had to copy and past
!!???

THAT's why I don't link stuff-no good at it-enough there to get the drift. There are many stories we all have no one heard of-I read a lot of books as did you apparently.

 

[harmonica]

I am not dropping things to do research for you. Read 1941-1943 for an in depth view of Operation Barbarossa and the statement I posted was from a TV show on WWII. If you don't take my word, don't respond to my posts. If you are curious, google your ass off.

hahahhahahahh
NO PROOF --as usual
I don't need to google anything
I've been reading and researching WW2 for over 40 years!!!!!!

....just like Japan stabbing the US in the back, Germany did the same to Russia = they are not giving up

SO, WHAT did you study, oh great field marshall?

And
soviethammer.blogspot.com/2016/07/to-save..

??? that sends me to a bunch of articles --MANY articles--some on NATO
????and it's not even a link--it's not highlighted ..I had to copy and past
!!???

THAT's why I don't link stuff-no good at it-enough there to get the drift. There are many stories we all have no one heard of-I read a lot of books as did you apparently.

but the Russians never stopped/never surrendered----that's a fact

 

[Third Party]

mg you are putting out bullshit --maybe you believe it because you want to
they were NOT surrendering--per my book quotes
they TOYED with the US during the negotiations--per the book quotes---etc
General Vo Nguyen Giap on the Vietnam War

You have no idea what happened there or what you're talking about.

that's why the French and the US lost--because those wars were winnable !!!
not 1 but TWO countries --much more powerful than North Vietnam

In 1965, I said we should nuke them-that would have won the war-would it have?